[Free Article] So Many Insane Plays -- Meandeck Beats !

[Smmenen]

You claim to have a postive matchup againt workshops?  I cant imagine this deck being favorable against stax on the draw.  Especially since your whole game plan is to create virtual card advantage by playing multiple threats a turn.

The deck has 7 mana accelerants and plenty of turn one plays besides.   For example, you have 5 waste effects.  

In terms of effective threats, this deck has the best: dark confidant, goyf, PRIDEMAGE, and even cards like gaddock teeg stop smokestack from being played.  

God help them if they run thorn instead of sphere...

[2nd_lawl]

So when they go turn 1 land mox, sphere, you go land, pass? And then they go workshop Stack and you lose rite?  Of your 7 accellerants only 3 of them ignore sphere, and you cant even go (under sphere) land lotus pridemage. There should at least be a plains in the sideboard since all your best anti workshop cards have W in them you need a nonbasic white source to live through wastelock.

Also whats the deal with planar void? You side out Goyf  AND 4X null rod AND 2x Choke against dredge for what?  4 planar voids and...

[covetousrat]

Wow I feel in love with this deck. Good job Steve. It proves to be devastating against Tezz and Workshop. Too many must counter targets. Whoever that doesn't believe in this deck, I strongly advise you to try it out. Do not just look at is as a pile of 2/2 beats.

[Smmenen]

So when they go turn 1 land mox, sphere, you go land, pass? And then they go workshop Stack and you lose rite?  

I don't think so at all.   It would be an interesting thing to test:  You could set up a 5c Stax hand with Workshop, City, Mox, Sphere, Stack and 2 other cards and then play that hand out against Meandeck Beatz, say 10 games, and see what happens.

First of all, if Meandeck Beats has drawn one of its 5 Wasteland effects, it's going to be able to do one of two things:
1) Wasteland the dual land or City/Gemstone that played Sphere.   This will prevent the Stack piloting from playing a Smokestack on turn two.   If they have a third land, it's true they can play the Stack on turn three, but a) there is a chance they don't have a third land or b) there is a chance that Beatz can draw another accellerant or yet another Wasteland in that time.    
2) Wasteland the Shop after they play Stack.

In either scenario, the Beats deck is in good shape.    For example, if they Waste the Shop, then the Stack player will have: Sphere, Land, Mox, Stack in play.  On their upkeep, they'll ramp Stack, and Beats will have (at most) one land in play (otherwise they would have played a Mox on turn one and a threat on turn two).   The Shop player won't be able to play most of its spells, especially with the Sphere in play, and will either have to lose the Stack or the Sphere or both.  

But even in the absence of one of the Waste effects, if the Beats pilot draws Thoughtseize and an ESG, they can preemptively take the Stack.   And if the MD Beats deck has two accelerants, it can play turn two Pridemage, Bob, or whatever, and try to race Stack.  

Of your 7 accellerants only 3 of them ignore sphere, and you cant even go (under sphere) land lotus pridemage.

No, but you could go land, Lotus, and play turn two Pridemage, sacrificing it to knock out Stack.  

Also whats the deal with planar void? You side out Goyf  AND 4X null rod AND 2x Choke against dredge for what?  4 planar voids and...

I bring in Jittes and I would keep in Goyfs.   Goyfs can be equipped and they can attack with Exalted.  



EDIT:

EDIT: so I did ten quick goldfishes to see if this deck "just loses, right?" if Stax plays turn one Mox, Land, Sphere, turn two, Shop, Stack.

1) Scrubland, Pridemage, Black Lotus, Choke, ESG, Goyf, Wasteland (8th card is Teeg)
2) Aven Mindcensor, Goyf, Bob, ESG, Scrubland, Thoughtseize, Wasteland (8th card is Mox Emerald)
3) Thoughtseize, Wasteland, Goyf, Thoughtseize, Null Rod, Bob, ESG (8th card is Heath)
4) Wasteland, Thoughtseize, Mindcensor, Consult, Teeg, Bob, Teeg --> Mulligan into: Thoughtseize, Mire, Null Rod, Teeg, Heath, Mire (draw for the turn is: Wasteland)
5)  Bob, Thoughtseize, Goyf, Bob, Bob, Savannah, Mire (8th card is Swamp)
6) Bob, Vamp, Choke, Thoughtseize, Heath, Bob, Savannah (8th card is Null Rod)
7) Thoughtseize, Teeg, Heath, Scrubland, Bob, Scrubland, Swamp (8th card is Lotus Petal)
8) Heath, Mindcensor, Goyf, Pridemage, Wasteland, Goyf, Mire (8th card is: Wasteland)
9) Vamp, Black Lotus, Pridemage, Heath, Scrubland, Savannah, Mindcensor (8th card is Swamp)
10) Teeg, Mire, Lotus Petal, Null Rod, Wasteland, Choke, Mire (8th card is: Teeg)

So, out of ten quick goldfishes, I can unequivocally say "No: T1 Sphere, T2: Stack is not game over."     Only hands 5 and 6 look like they lose with any solid likelihood.  Hands 1, 2, 3, 4, 8, and 10 have a Wasteland.      Hands 2 and 3 can Thoughtseize the Stack away on turn one, through Sphere.   Hand 1 and 9 can play turn two Pridemage/  Hands 2, 7, and 10 can play a turn two threat under Sphere to try and race Stack or force Stax to ramp up.    

[Tha Gunslinga]

Also whats the deal with planar void? You side out Goyf  AND 4X null rod AND 2x Choke against dredge for what?  4 planar voids and...

This Ghostly Prison card seems fairly decent against a deck that swarms you and has virtually no manabase.

[2nd_lawl]

So when they go turn 1 land mox, sphere, you go land, pass? And then they go workshop Stack and you lose rite?  

I don't think so at all.   It would be an interesting thing to test:  You could set up a 5c Stax hand with Workshop, City, Mox, Sphere, Stack and 2 other cards and then play that hand out against Meandeck Beatz, say 10 games, and see what happens.

First of all, if Meandeck Beats has drawn one of its 5 Wasteland effects, it's going to be able to do one of two things:
1) Wasteland the dual land or City/Gemstone that played Sphere.   This will prevent the Stack piloting from playing a Smokestack on turn two.   If they have a third land, it's true they can play the Stack on turn three, but a) there is a chance they don't have a third land or b) there is a chance that Beatz can draw another accellerant or yet another Wasteland in that time.    
2) Wasteland the Shop after they play Stack.

In either scenario, the Beats deck is in good shape.    For example, if they Waste the Shop, then the Stack player will have: Sphere, Land, Mox, Stack in play.  On their upkeep, they'll ramp Stack, and Beats will have (at most) one land in play (otherwise they would have played a Mox on turn one and a threat on turn two).   The Shop player won't be able to play most of its spells, especially with the Sphere in play, and will either have to lose the Stack or the Sphere or both.  

But even in the absence of one of the Waste effects, if the Beats pilot draws Thoughtseize and an ESG, they can preemptively take the Stack.   And if the MD Beats deck has two accelerants, it can play turn two Pridemage, Bob, or whatever, and try to race Stack.  

Of your 7 accellerants only 3 of them ignore sphere, and you cant even go (under sphere) land lotus pridemage.

No, but you could go land, Lotus, and play turn two Pridemage, sacrificing it to knock out Stack.  

Also whats the deal with planar void? You side out Goyf  AND 4X null rod AND 2x Choke against dredge for what?  4 planar voids and...

I bring in Jittes and I would keep in Goyfs.   Goyfs can be equipped and they can attack with Exalted.  



EDIT:

EDIT: so I did ten quick goldfishes to see if this deck "just loses, right?" if Stax plays turn one Mox, Land, Sphere, turn two, Shop, Stack.

1) Scrubland, Pridemage, Black Lotus, Choke, ESG, Goyf, Wasteland (8th card is Teeg)
2) Aven Mindcensor, Goyf, Bob, ESG, Scrubland, Thoughtseize, Wasteland (8th card is Mox Emerald)
3) Thoughtseize, Wasteland, Goyf, Thoughtseize, Null Rod, Bob, ESG (8th card is Heath)
4) Wasteland, Thoughtseize, Mindcensor, Consult, Teeg, Bob, Teeg --> Mulligan into: Thoughtseize, Mire, Null Rod, Teeg, Heath, Mire (draw for the turn is: Wasteland)
5)  Bob, Thoughtseize, Goyf, Bob, Bob, Savannah, Mire (8th card is Swamp)
6) Bob, Vamp, Choke, Thoughtseize, Heath, Bob, Savannah (8th card is Null Rod)
7) Thoughtseize, Teeg, Heath, Scrubland, Bob, Scrubland, Swamp (8th card is Lotus Petal)
8) Heath, Mindcensor, Goyf, Pridemage, Wasteland, Goyf, Mire (8th card is: Wasteland)
9) Vamp, Black Lotus, Pridemage, Heath, Scrubland, Savannah, Mindcensor (8th card is Swamp)
10) Teeg, Mire, Lotus Petal, Null Rod, Wasteland, Choke, Mire (8th card is: Teeg)

So, out of ten quick goldfishes, I can unequivocally say "No: T1 Sphere, T2: Stack is not game over."     Only hands 5 and 6 look like they lose with any solid likelihood.  Hands 1, 2, 3, 4, 8, and 10 have a Wasteland.      Hands 2 and 3 can Thoughtseize the Stack away on turn one, through Sphere.   Hand 1 and 9 can play turn two Pridemage/  Hands 2, 7, and 10 can play a turn two threat under Sphere to try and race Stack or force Stax to ramp up.    

Hand 7 and 10 will certainly not win: you go turn 1 land petal they go stack go, you go sac petal and tap 2 lands to play teeg, they go ramp stack to 1, and at least play a land but at which point you have to sac a land, and try and race a stack with teeg? which basically is just a grizzly bear if they already have a stack in play.  from that point on all they have to do is play 1 permanent a turn and you can never play anything more then 1 mana for the rest of the game(unless you draw lotus very quickly), they have 4 cards, and if one of those is a wasteland for your white source, you just get stacked out with a sphere on the board and lose.

Hands 2 and 3 are super cold to wasteland on your white source. And hand 4 wile not being particularlry vunerable to stack itself, is vulnerable to any other significant pressure from the stax player.

Also having wasteland means what exactly? at best you are looking to play the "i hope i draw more lands then you game" under a sphere.

The two BEST hands 1 and 9 are crutching hard on lotus, and hand 1 needs to find a permanent green source, to stabilize.

[kuberr]

So when they go turn 1 land mox, sphere, you go land, pass? And then they go workshop Stack and you lose rite?

with 18 lands, 4 spheres, 9 accelerants, 4 sstax, and 4 shops this will happen roughly 5% of the time. 

Given that a non trivial % of stax decks are running thorn over sphere that makes this opening less devastating.  If 75% of stax players are running 4 sphere of resistance, and that hand beats you 75% of the time, then you are losing about 3 games out of 100 to that opening.  When you factor in that you should be on the play 50% of the time.  By my calculations you will lose to the scenario that you presented about 1.5% of the games that you play against stax.

@steve  this is my first sanctioned tournament, and im not really sure how that will impact the meta.  do you expect maindeck choke to still be optimal?  would something like Edict possibly be more relevant in the potentially skewed metagame?

i know that combo doesn't make up a significant portion of the meta, but can you touch on how this deck plays against tps or ad nauseam?  how you would board against them?

[BruiZar]

Given that a non trivial % of stax decks are running thorn over sphere that makes this opening less devastating. 

That my friend, is not true. Sphere is played over Thorn

[kuberr]

Given that a non trivial % of stax decks are running thorn over sphere that makes this opening less devastating. 

That my friend, is not true. Sphere is played over Thorn

I said a non trivial % of of stax players, not all of them.  The very next sentence I estimate that 75% of stax players choose Sphere of Thorn.  Clearly thats just a guestimate, but I dont think its very far off, and the difference is likely neglible to the analysis.

[Smmenen]

So when they go turn 1 land mox, sphere, you go land, pass? And then they go workshop Stack and you lose rite?  

I don't think so at all.   It would be an interesting thing to test:  You could set up a 5c Stax hand with Workshop, City, Mox, Sphere, Stack and 2 other cards and then play that hand out against Meandeck Beatz, say 10 games, and see what happens.

First of all, if Meandeck Beats has drawn one of its 5 Wasteland effects, it's going to be able to do one of two things:
1) Wasteland the dual land or City/Gemstone that played Sphere.   This will prevent the Stack piloting from playing a Smokestack on turn two.   If they have a third land, it's true they can play the Stack on turn three, but a) there is a chance they don't have a third land or b) there is a chance that Beatz can draw another accellerant or yet another Wasteland in that time.    
2) Wasteland the Shop after they play Stack.

In either scenario, the Beats deck is in good shape.    For example, if they Waste the Shop, then the Stack player will have: Sphere, Land, Mox, Stack in play.  On their upkeep, they'll ramp Stack, and Beats will have (at most) one land in play (otherwise they would have played a Mox on turn one and a threat on turn two).   The Shop player won't be able to play most of its spells, especially with the Sphere in play, and will either have to lose the Stack or the Sphere or both.  

But even in the absence of one of the Waste effects, if the Beats pilot draws Thoughtseize and an ESG, they can preemptively take the Stack.   And if the MD Beats deck has two accelerants, it can play turn two Pridemage, Bob, or whatever, and try to race Stack.  

Of your 7 accellerants only 3 of them ignore sphere, and you cant even go (under sphere) land lotus pridemage.

No, but you could go land, Lotus, and play turn two Pridemage, sacrificing it to knock out Stack.  

Also whats the deal with planar void? You side out Goyf  AND 4X null rod AND 2x Choke against dredge for what?  4 planar voids and...

I bring in Jittes and I would keep in Goyfs.   Goyfs can be equipped and they can attack with Exalted.  



EDIT:

EDIT: so I did ten quick goldfishes to see if this deck "just loses, right?" if Stax plays turn one Mox, Land, Sphere, turn two, Shop, Stack.

1) Scrubland, Pridemage, Black Lotus, Choke, ESG, Goyf, Wasteland (8th card is Teeg)
2) Aven Mindcensor, Goyf, Bob, ESG, Scrubland, Thoughtseize, Wasteland (8th card is Mox Emerald)
3) Thoughtseize, Wasteland, Goyf, Thoughtseize, Null Rod, Bob, ESG (8th card is Heath)
4) Wasteland, Thoughtseize, Mindcensor, Consult, Teeg, Bob, Teeg --> Mulligan into: Thoughtseize, Mire, Null Rod, Teeg, Heath, Mire (draw for the turn is: Wasteland)
5)  Bob, Thoughtseize, Goyf, Bob, Bob, Savannah, Mire (8th card is Swamp)
6) Bob, Vamp, Choke, Thoughtseize, Heath, Bob, Savannah (8th card is Null Rod)
7) Thoughtseize, Teeg, Heath, Scrubland, Bob, Scrubland, Swamp (8th card is Lotus Petal)
8) Heath, Mindcensor, Goyf, Pridemage, Wasteland, Goyf, Mire (8th card is: Wasteland)
9) Vamp, Black Lotus, Pridemage, Heath, Scrubland, Savannah, Mindcensor (8th card is Swamp)
10) Teeg, Mire, Lotus Petal, Null Rod, Wasteland, Choke, Mire (8th card is: Teeg)

So, out of ten quick goldfishes, I can unequivocally say "No: T1 Sphere, T2: Stack is not game over."     Only hands 5 and 6 look like they lose with any solid likelihood.  Hands 1, 2, 3, 4, 8, and 10 have a Wasteland.      Hands 2 and 3 can Thoughtseize the Stack away on turn one, through Sphere.   Hand 1 and 9 can play turn two Pridemage/  Hands 2, 7, and 10 can play a turn two threat under Sphere to try and race Stack or force Stax to ramp up.    

Hand 7 and 10 will certainly not win: you go turn 1 land petal they go stack go, you go sac petal and tap 2 lands to play teeg, they go ramp stack to 1, and at least play a land but at which point you have to sac a land, and try and race a stack with teeg? which basically is just a grizzly bear if they already have a stack in play.  from that point on all they have to do is play 1 permanent a turn and you can never play anything more then 1 mana for the rest of the game(unless you draw lotus very quickly), they have 4 cards, and if one of those is a wasteland for your white source, you just get stacked out with a sphere on the board and lose.

Hands 2 and 3 are super cold to wasteland on your white source. And hand 4 wile not being particularlry vunerable to stack itself, is vulnerable to any other significant pressure from the stax player.

Also having wasteland means what exactly? at best you are looking to play the "i hope i draw more lands then you game" under a sphere.

The two BEST hands 1 and 9 are crutching hard on lotus, and hand 1 needs to find a permanent green source, to stabilize.

You miss the point:  

You said: Doesn't your deck just LOSE to the proposed scenario?  I wasn't saying that those hands WIN the game.    I am not trying to establish that these hands *win*, simply that they don't automatically lose.  

In any case, I completely disagree with you.  

For example, hand 10:
If I Wasteland the Shop on turn two, there is a good chance the Stax pilot won't be able to play a permanent a turn.    You won't be able to play Crucible, Sphere, another Stack, Tangle Wire, let alone any 3 mana non-Artifact spell.

Re: 7: If you play turn one Petal, turn two Bob, there is a good chance that you'll be able to keep playing a permanent a turn.   Eventually, you just need another mox or an ESG to break out.   The Stax pilot is not a given they can keep up, ESP. if you draw a Wasteland and Waste their Shop, similary to scenario 10.  

Regarding hands 2 and 3, it's curious that you say that I am cold to Wasteland, but then don't acknowledge that I have just as good of a chance of drawing more lands as you do.  They are Hardly "Cold" to Wasteland.   

And No: Having a Wasteland doesn't mean I hope to draw more lands.  It means: you won't be able to keep up with your Stack, since I will Wasteland your Shop, and you won't be able to play a large number of your deck's spells under your Sphere, and will thuse have to sacrifice either the Sphere or the Stack, or both, unless you draw another Shop very quickly. 

Again, you are arguing the wrong point.   I didn't say that any one of these hands *WIN*.  I said that most of them don't 'automatically' lose, as you suggested, to a draw of: Mox, Land, Sphere, Shop, Stack + 2 other cards.  

Given that a non trivial % of stax decks are running thorn over sphere that makes this opening less devastating.  

That my friend, is not true. Sphere is played over Thorn

I said a non trivial % of of stax players, not all of them.  The very next sentence I estimate that 75% of stax players choose Sphere of Thorn.  Clearly thats just a guestimate, but I dont think its very far off, and the difference is likely neglible to the analysis.

That's my estimate as well.

This thing crushes Stax pretty badly.    Same with Tezzeret.   Anyone who tests it will discover this quickly.  

TPS is a much better matchup than Ad Nauseam.    If you are afraid of Ad Nauseam, I suggest running Canonists in the sideboard, a pair.

The good news is that you have THOUGHSEIZE, which is very good versus both.   Against Ad Nauseam, you basically need turn one :

Thoughtseize
Teeg
Null Rod

In fact, you want two of those three.  

Against TPS, you have a little more time to develop, so you don't NEED turn one of those plays if you have one of those plays on turn two and another on turn three.  

[pierce]

as an ad nas player, orim's chant is better post board. the ad nas player will board out their pact of negations, and bring in their artifact bounce spells (hurkyls, rebuild) that they have for stax. This is due to null rod and the percieved threat of cannonist. slaughter pacts will also start to rise due to both teeg and cannonist.

Simply, unless they leave in duress effects and counterspells (doubtful), they should be stopped by orims chant. Or bind, if you feel ballsy.

In this decks current form, it's not a pretty matchup. And unlike TPS, aven mindcensor does little to nothing.

[Smmenen]

Thoughtsieze helps enormously there, in taking a relevant spell to make Canonist work better.   

[pierce]

Thoughtsieze helps enormously there, in taking a relevant spell to make Canonist work better.   

the reason for my not mentioning them is that I had no contention to your earlier claim--they are absolutely amazing against both forms of combo listed. I 100% agree.

[kuberr]

Since the deck has such an incredible game vs Tezz is it possible that the chokes are overkill?  Clearly they are relevant against other decks, fish and oath come to mind, but would something like maindeck edicts be better?  It's still relevant vs tezz while being more relevant in a broader number of other matches.

Are the chokes crucial to the deck?  If not what would you most likely run in that slot, in the expected GenCon meta?

[Smmenen]

Since the deck has such an incredible game vs Tezz is it possible that the chokes are overkill?  Clearly they are relevant against other decks, fish and oath come to mind, but would something like maindeck edicts be better?  It's still relevant vs tezz while being more relevant in a broader number of other matches.

Are the chokes crucial to the deck?  If not what would you most likely run in that slot, in the expected GenCon meta?

The first thing to do is to take a look at the expected metagame.    The vast majority of players are very bad at predicting metagames.   

Ask a random player how much Workshop or how much Drains there will be, and they will usually be WAY off.   

I expect the metagame to be pretty similar to ICBM open.  Take a look at that:

Day 1 of ICBM Open:
95 players

19 Tezzeret
12 Fish (4 UGW, 3 BUG, 2 BUW, 2 UR, 1 5C)
10 Tendrils combo (5 TPS, 3 Long, 2 BobTendrils)
9 Ichorid
7 Stax (3 5C, 1 Uba, 1 MUD, 1 RG, 1 GWS?)
5 XG Beats decks (2 GWR, 2 RG, 1 GW, 1 BGW)5 Control
5 Mono-Red Shop Aggro
3 Painter
3 Belcher
2 Goblins
1 Pox
1 Gro
1 It's Raining Men
1 StifleNought
apparently missing a few lists

Only 79 of 95 lists were posted.

Day 2:
72 players

11 Tezzeret
10 Tendrils Combo (4 ANT, 4 Long, 2 Bob Tendrils)
9 Stax (2 RG, 1 5C, 3 BR, 2 MUD, 1 Uba)
8 Fish (5 BUG, 1 UR, 1 UGW, 1 UBW)
7 XG Beats (1 RG, 1 RGB, 2 RWG, 3 GW)
5 Ichorid
4 Painter
3 Misc Control
3 Oath
2 Mono-Red Shop Aggro
1 It's Raining Men
1 Remora
1 Pox
1 Goblins
1 Belcher
1 Landstill
1 Slaver
1 Dawn of the Dead
1 BR Aggro
1 SS

I expect a similar metagame.

*Tezzeret decks will be the most popular decks, with 15-20% of the field

* I expect between 7-12% Stax, and another half of that as Workshop Aggro

* I expect slightly less Combo, but somewhere around 10% still

* There will be a decent amount of Fish as well, around 10%, with about half that many G/x Beatz decks as well.   

* there will be about 7% Ichorid again, just as there always is.

That makes up about 65% of the field, the rest is the usual 35% randomness, a good bit of which is Drain decks.


It's clear that the largest part of the metagame will be Drains, and Drains will probably be almost 35-40% of the field.   It's the only matchup you are almost assured to face at least twice, and possibly more.     

It's crystal clear to me that Choke is probably the best option for those slots.    Choke is also good against one of the deck's more even matchups: Fish.   If you don't want Choke, I suppose you could play Loam (I would play Loam over Crucible) and an Imperial Seal in those slots. 

[keys]

Is this basically the GW hate deck + Thoughtseize & Confidant & Edict?  Do we need premium to see the list?

4 Teeg
4 Confidant
3 Goyf
4 Pridemage
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Diabolic Edict
3 Choke
4 Thoughtseize
4 Null Rod
4 ESG
1 V Tutor
1 D Tutor
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Emerald
1 Stip Mine
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Forest


???

[ilpeggiore]

4 Teeg
4 Confidant
3 Goyf
4 Pridemage
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Diabolic Edict
3 Choke
4 Thoughtseize
4 Null Rod
4 ESG
1 V Tutor
1 D Tutor
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Emerald
1 Stip Mine
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Forest


choke #3 is probably a demonic consultation.
i'm not sure if its 4x ESG or 3x + a second mox.
only 1 basic land ? dunno.

[marriedwithchildren]

Steve shouldn't have to defend his deck creation.  I was playing in the same room as him when someone said something along the line of "Oh Man!  Steve just got crushed by his own deck!"  Each deck has its own short commings and this deck is no different.  I'm curious to find out if anyone had the juice to play this deck at Gencon and how they did.  But even that wouldn't matter because Steve would have done better.

[kuberr]

Quick report from gencon

I’m playing steve’s list card for card.

Round 1 vs Belcher
g1 I lose the die roll, and my opponent has turn 1 necro, and im dead on turn 2.
g2 I win on turn one with land + esg + teeg (he later tells me he also had a turn one win in hand)
g3 he plays a few cards followed by wheel of fortune.  I look at my new seven and see:  fetch, esg, and teeg.  He doesn’t kill me on turn one.  He informs me that he has no answer to teeg at all.
(1-0)

Round 2 vs Tezz
g1 I lose the die roll.  He opens with loa, ruby, mana vault, key, and top.  He does some cool tricks with top and key on turn two, after which I consult for null rod (7th card down).  I play some Pridemages and win.  This is a recurring theme throughout the day. Pridemage is the MVP.
G2 is pretty much the same, except this time I have bobs to go with my pridemages.
(2-0)

Round 3 vs Tezz
G1 I lose the die roll. In the first 3 turns I case 2 thoughtseize and he casts 2 duress and a thoughtseize.   I get out a mindcensor and a teeg (this is pretty much the only match all day where mindcensor pulled its weight).  I attack with dudes for the win.
G2 he leads with turn one Recall, and I’m unable to catch up.  He gets out vault + key, and eventually hardcasts an ingot chewer.
G3 I play thoughtseize and see his hand of lotus, a recall, tezz, mystical tutor, and fire/ice.  He draws a few lands in a row to make it interesting.  I start beating down with dudes, and he eventually taps out for tinker.  I hold my breath and pray its not inkwell.  He gets DC.  I untap, swords his robot, and cast choke.  From there I just attack with guys.
(3-0)

Round 4 vs Selkie
G1 I lose the die roll.  He leads with lotus, cursecatcher, and recall.  I play 2/2’s and goyf and attack for the win.
G2  he plays more goyfs than I do.
G3 He gets in some early beats, and then I begin to stabilize.  He has kira, goyf, and noble hierarch to my pridemage and mindcensor (carrying a jitte with 4 counters.)  He cast Trygon Predator, and I respond by killing kira and noble hierarch and casting edict targeting him.  Thinking I’m in good position to win if it resolves, and not totally out of it if gets countered.  Shortly thereafter the edict is now targeting me and the game is over.
(3-1)
Round 5 vs Dredge
G1 I lose the die roll.  My opponent leads with bazaar, activate, discard 3, chalice for 0.  He passes turn with 5 cards in hand and we are off to game 2.
G2 I keep a hand with turn 1 wasteland, turn 2 vamp for planar void.  He leads with bazaar and cycles two wraiths to dredge a good portion of his deck.  I draw for turn and needless to say there was a planar void on top.  He puts some nether shadows into play and gets off a dread return on sutured ghoul.  I vamp for swords and attack for the win.
(4-1)

Round 6 vs RG Stax
G1 I WIN the die roll.  My opponent mulls to 6.  I lead with land, emerald, lotus, goyf, and pridemage.  My opponent plays bazaar, activates and concedes before discarding.  I assume he’s on stax as dredge is very unlikely to scoop in that situation. Knowing that planar void is good against both decks I bring them in along with swords for chokes and null rods.
G2  He leads with land, mox, sphere.  I play land mox.  He plays his shop and cast tangle wire.  My hand is bob, goyf, and a couple lands so I think im in ok shape.  He gets a smokestack into play, and Icast bob hoping I can keep up with permanents.  He plays crop rotation for tabernacle and its over quickly from there.  I board the voids back out for the null rods.
G3 I keep a pretty solid 7, and he mulls to 4.  This game wasn’t even close.  His turn one play was: shop, mox, sphere.  I waste his shop, and his second turn play is shop + sphere.  He gets a third sphere into play, and im never able to really do anything.  Embarrassing.
(4-2)

Round 7 vs BUG fish
G1 I’m exhausted from the last game, and im pretty much not in this match mentally.  Not that it mattered as darkblast and loam proved to be better than my whole deck.  It was a blowout.
G2 was about as close as game 1.
(4-3)

In the end I think the deck is really good.  Pridemage was way better than I ever expected.  Bob and goyf did their thing.  Choke was fine, but maybe not 100% necessary? Not sure.  You really really need a turn one play, and as such I think I’d run the 4th spirit guide (I attacked with these guys more than once throughout the tournament.)  I was kind of disappointed with Mindcensor.  With petal, spirit guide, wasteland, keeping mana up for pridemage, etc… you don’t often have 3 mana early enough for mindcensor to be great.  Its flying is a nice way to resolve ground stalls, and pridemage makes it a decent clock.  I’m not sure if there is something better for this slot, but I think there needs to be for this deck to really shine.  I really wanted clique here. 

[ilpeggiore]

the most worring thing of this deck is its manabase. crucible+waste is really something against you.Iwas expecting some report of md-beats vs artifact

Knowing that planar void is good against both decks I bring them in along with swords for chokes and null rods.

c'mon man ! no dredge deck wuold concede if it has a bazzy on the table.....

I’m not sure if there is something better for this slot, but I think there needs to be for this deck to really shine.

orim's could give you some tempo.... not a bad thing if you lack  turn-1 acceleration or if you are under confy...

other choise could be :

vexing shusher
canonist
kataki
spellbane centaur / saffi eriksdotter
equipoise (lol) nether void (lol) scavenger folks /viridian zealot (quasali 5-7, lol)

[Smmenen]

@ Kuberr

Great report.  I enjoyed reading your matches and your thoughts (although the Dredge match is a little confusing: it sounds like you won game 1, although i'm not sure why/how).   

I think one change I would make is find a place for the third basic land.    It must have been heartbreaking to lose round 6 after your opponent mulligans to 4!  Ugh!   Just a win there and you are in top 8!

[kuberr]

the dredge player was on the play 7 cards, played bazaar (6), drew 2 from bazaar (8), discarded 3 (5), played chalice (4 cards in hand).  he passed the turn with 5 cards in hand.  

looks like he drew three off bazaar = game loss

[Smmenen]

Of course.  Thanks for the clarification.

[kuberr]

steve

in an earlier article you mentioned Tidehollow Sculler.  Just curious if you ever got around to testing it.  I think you'd have to find room for jet, but I really think this could be a really solid card in this deck.

I'd also like to say my opinion's about the cards in the deck are based solely off minimal testing and one tournament so i could be way off on my evaluations.  I do plan to continue testing as I think this deck is going to remain strong for the foreseeable future.

[Smmenen]

To be honest, I did not test Sculler.    Everyone who has said that it's not very good, and that has made me not want to play it.   

Another possibility, which I talk about in the article is running Mox Jet.   Any thoughts on that? 

[Neonico]

Sculler has been very good sideboard material for me in Combo/Controle matchups, as those archetypes won't keep artefact bounces against you.

I tested them in my version maindeck, but didn't like them that much G1, Was a little too much colour intensive pre board and would cause troubles against wasteland matchups, especially fish. Its allmost like Meddling mage in the Uwb versions.... I'm not sold on maindeck chokes neither... don't think it's actually needed maindeck.

[kuberr]

I don't think Jet is really necessary with the current build.  I'm not sure what you'd cut, and I think I'd prefer the fourth spirit guide anyway.  If you add something like Sculler or Duress then clearly I'd find a way to include Jet.

I forgot to add that I recall wishing I had a Plains on more than one occasion.

While I do like having data from playing in an actual tournament, my opinions are still based a relatively small number of games.  As I get in more significant testing I'll let you know what I conclude.

Given what information I currently have, I will probably play around with the Mindcensor/Choke slots.  The mana will probably change a little depending on what goes in those slots, and I will probably test with either a 3rd mox or 4th spirit guide.

[Smmenen]

As I think I said in the article, one of the reasons I cut the 4th ESG is that double ESG in an opening hand wasn't very good, most of the time.   It's just too card disadvantageous to have that many Lotus Petals in an opening hand, and use them, to play one threat.   

I could see cutting a 4th Teeg or a 4th Mindcensor, but I wouldn't probably do either.   One of the decks biggest weaknesses has to be Fish, since Noble Hierarch is just so good against you.    That's yet another reason to keep Choke.   

I think the area that this deck could use the most tweaking is in the mana base.   There has to be a slightly better formula that would make your mana stronger.   I, too, think that a basic Plains would be great.   But I'm not sure where to put it in the 75. 

[kuberr]

Looking back, I see I haven't really mentioned how good Teeg was.  Teeg was amazing against the blue decks, and I never once got "stuck" with a second one in hand.  Turn 1 Teeg was one of my favorite plays.  It practically guarantee's a turn 2 free of counters.  It's ability is relevant in almost every match.

I'm sure you're right about Choke.

I would like to try out Life from the Loam.  Continually attacking your opponents mana, while your guys keep beating down seems really good.

[Smmenen]

Yeah, me as well.

Looking at the Vintage Champs Top 8, I have a very clear sense of where this deck should go.   All 3 of the top 3 decks had at least 3 ways to address Null Rod in their maindeck, and the 2nd place list has 4 ways.    Unfortunately, the Swamp in the first deck and the City's of Brass the Steel City Vault deck make Choke less useful.   What does all of this mean?  I think it means that Seal of Cleansing might actually be a better metagame slot.   It will prevent them from winning by simply using anti-artifact bounce.   Or, perhaps even Krosan Grip or Disenchant, since Chain of Vapor can still bounce Seal.  Although perhaps not. 

Before I'd take this deck out again, I'd carefully run it up against all three of the top finishing decklists and see what changes need to be made.