Oath of Druids Post-Zendikar

[Killane]

nice catch on the drake, I had forgotten all about that guy. Wishing for Waste seems like something that would happen to rarely to use up a sideboard slot. Tabernacle seems to have negative synergy with the Oath plan. I agree that the other two seem too marginal.

[Metman]

I think that there are two arguments to be made as to why you should run two critters in Oath.  The first is the speed at which you plan on winning when you get to Oath out two creatures.  What if you are facing a first or second turn Tinker -> Inky/Darksteel/Sphinx and you simply cannot mathematically race them?  Not being able to Oath that second time would give the game away.  Second and what I feel is the most important reason is that Oath's creatures inevitably make their way into the pilots hand via bounce or draw.  Without Brainstorms and Thirsts in the deck you are stuck with them, being uncastable, and if can't Oath up that second creature because you don't have it you will be wishing you did. 

One might say that you should mulligan those hands (and you should) or that there are several options main deck to filter your draw but stuff happens and I feel like you would be throwing the games away just because you didn't have a second creature to fall back on. 

[Killane]

Ok, I'm convinced. I don't like it, but I guess the "race against a robot" scenario happens often enough that there's no real choice here. Maybe one day they'll print a Wish that lets you shuffle a card into your library and Oath can go to town, but I guess for now we'll have to settle for a second dude. I think Hellkite is the best choice here after some thought. Hellkite + Iona is actually fast enough to race a T1 Inky or Sphinx, and DSC can be bounced. In place of the other two Wishes I'm thinking a second bounce spell, likely wipe away, and either a duress or a second Lim- Dul's vault. I'm leaning towards the vault as it allows maximum cntrol of the Oath.  I'll see about posting a revised build later.

[honestabe]

remora is usually bad in oath because it doesn't play well with forbidden orchard.  also, you want to use your strip effects, not keep the lands around to pay for remora.  It seems like the deck would have a hard time finding oath, so i'd cut 2 remora and 2 other things (maybe null rod, i don't like them main decked in oath) for 4 impulse.  Also, I'd probably switch drains for negates., especially when you run 4 non blue lands

[the boogie man]

they do make a tutor that shuffle rfg into the library: research and development. Singleton iona + r&d maybe?

[Killane]

I didn't play during Ravnica block and wasn't even aware of the existence of this card. as I have never seen it before. Am I crazy or is this better - a real possibility to make my Wish build work? (figures this comes up right after I conceed the point

Removing the Living Wishes for R&D solves a number of issues.

1. We could bring in the Dragons (all Three if we wanted) post Iona or even pre-Iona if we need a clock (ie racing a robot) or if we are vs Stax in game one.

2. We could bring in Painter, at Instant speed, and Oath it up right after Iona for the hard lock where needed.

3. It pitches to Force of Will and Misdirection.

4. being Instant speed gives us a marginal chance of resolving it to fetch Jailer fast enough to matter in game one vs Ichorid. This is very maginal, but still matters.

Concerns

1. The double mana cost make it very unlikely to cast off a mox.

2. We still have only one maindeck creature with this plan, (but can have up to five once we resolve an R&D).

What does those of you who have opposed the Living Wish plan think? Is this enough to make the difference?

Regarding Remora - I hear your concerns, but I usually don't have to pay the upkeep cost more than once or twice. Even more than being a draw engine, it warps how the opponent plays their game and slows it down, which is what this build wants. If they don't slow down, it draws so many cards it's hard not to win.  I goldfished Impulse in this slot (don't have alot of chances to actually playtest right now), and I just felt... meh. It didn't do enough for me.

[Darkenslight]

Unfortunately, Research has been errata'd to matcht he Wishes, so that's a no go.

What about Blitz Hellion?  IT shuffles back, and you can Oath each turn for it.  IT still has the drawback of having to pass the turn, but if you add Berserk, then that's 14 power that comes back next turn as a 7-power man, meaning a 2-turn kill.

[Killane]

Unfortunately, Research has been errata'd to matcht he Wishes, so that's a no go.

What about Blitz Hellion?  IT shuffles back, and you can Oath each turn for it.  IT still has the drawback of having to pass the turn, but if you add Berserk, then that's 14 power that comes back next turn as a 7-power man, meaning a 2-turn kill.

I'm not sure what you mean - The wishes grab from the Sideboard, as does R&D. It does just what I want it too.

 Blitz Helion is very sub optimal in Oath: compare with Hellkite Overlord - he's bigger, more evasive, breathes fire, and sticks around. Karrthus, Akroma, Simic Sky Swallower, even Spirit of the Night (which hasn't been used in Oath in what, two-three years?) are all better choices for pure Aggro Oath than something that needs Oath to stick around to keep using.

[Scyther]

jep, research would work. i tested it even way back when it was printed in my oath, just to get game1 already specific hate cards. and it was... trash.. xD

but now having the option for a hard lock, or the option between control or a 2-turn-aggro-plan seems very appealing.
on the other hand, how many of hem would you want to play? i would not run more than 2. they do card disadvantage, doesnt bring you orchard nor oath and fit to the general gameplan only if oath is already out.. at least it pitches to force and MisD..

otherwise i would tend to 1 iona/ 1 overlord. the overlord can win games on its own and is way beter against stax than iona.

[Suicideking]

Unfortunately, Research has been errata'd to matcht he Wishes, so that's a no go.

What about Blitz Hellion?  IT shuffles back, and you can Oath each turn for it.  IT still has the drawback of having to pass the turn, but if you add Berserk, then that's 14 power that comes back next turn as a 7-power man, meaning a 2-turn kill.

LOL Really,  Two hellkite overlords kill in two turns and dont shuffle back, so if your oath gets bounced after you aren't stuck drawing into blitz hellion and other awful cards like berserk.

[Killane]

It sounds like you were using it very differently then I am suggesting. I can understand why you would not find it helpful to essentially SB in game one in a way that costs you a card and doesn't get you the hate you need right away. My plan though is to use it to control the Oath so that we get Iona first, and then select what you want next: the hard lock, the hyper aggro, etc...in this build it makes sure that, except for the Stax match, we always get the best Oath option first, and we can still do the Dragon plan vs stax game one. If they have an active leyline? R&D the Dragons in and keep as much of the deck out of the yard as possible. T1 Duresr +Extirpate on Oath? Grab the painter and the grindstone from the board (possible SB tech) and still have a win. There seem to be many possibilities with this plan, and it always meens Iona arrives first, mitigating the "pass the turn-itis" that Oath suffers from. 3 x R&D would be my number of choice, as it's a key card to the strategy but isn't really useful in multiples.

[Scyther]

yeah, i understand what the plan should be. just said that in the past i tried it in another way..


ehm. R//D as a 3 of? i dont know. its useless in setup situations. mostly dead at the beginning and i guess u really wanna shufle them back ASAP like the blessing or iona in hand.. and development is bad either.. xD

[AmbivalentDuck]

Why *wouldn't* you run 2x Iona main with some Living Wishes or R&D?

It sounds like the only viable strategies are the triple dragon plan and some combination of Iona, Tidespout, and wishes/research.




Anyways, as the only guy who's probably ever run R&D in a tournament, the "D" is actually very relevant since both over-costed Ancestral and some 3/1s are quite good.  I had Dark Rituals when I played it in my DDay build...but still.  It's nowhere near as bad as it looks.

[MirariKnight]

I've never actually considered casting the "D" before. It actually isn't THAT terrible no matter how overcosted it may be (most likely 3 dudes for 3ur).
My concern is adding more and more cards to the deck that only do anything post-Oathing. Oath's weakness is it's lack of a backup plan and adding more irrelevant cards enhances rather than mitigates the weakness. I guess it does have a secondary function and allow you to forego Blessing/3rd creature, but I'm not entirely sold. R/D was briefly played in the Tyrant builds iirc (I wasn't playing then so I'm not positive) and is definitely worth testing. Infinitely better than Living Wish.

[Scyther]

at the moment ( and in theory only) i like most the idea of having a iona and an robot. most likely inky. it is a back up plan to oath, its not that dead if u have him in hand (plus u know then u oath up iona first) and its as slow as iona plus dragon would be, right?

what about 2 dragon + iona?
its a bit of a gambling game cause its likely u never get what u want in most situations but:

1. first oath iona - would be fine
2. first oath dragon, then dragon - would be as good as it is now..
3. first oath dragon, then iona - 1 turn slower but its also safer having iona on the board ...

[brianpk80]

FWIW, I always had the best success with builds that were readily able to hardcast the creatures if the Oath plan went awry.  With all of the artifact disruption, Tyrant as a second creature becomes a viable hardcast through a Tolarian Academy. 

[Killane]

that's the beauty of it- R&D isn't only good post Oath. It gives us a backup in painter/grind without adding dead cards to the main, and pre-Oath vs stax and Ichorid it can grab very relevant guys and other hate from the board.

[Stormanimagus]

I think an Oath list, in order to be successful in today's metagame with BS, Ponder, and Thirst Restricted, needs to take more risks and be more balls-out. And so I'm forced to agree with Killane's assessment of the deck. Obviously testing will prove both of us correct or incorrect, but, if I were to take all the comments that have been put out there and design the best oath list I can conceive of it would look something like this:

Iona   Oath

Land (17):
4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Misty Forest
3 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine

Artifacts (11):
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
4 Moxen (no Mox Pearl)
1 Mana Crypt
4 Null Rod

Creatures (1):
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

Enchantments (7):
4 Oath Of Druids
3 Mystic Remora

Instants (17):
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Thirst For Knowledge
3 Spell Snare
4 Force Of Will
1 Misdirection
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
3 Research // Development

Sorceries (7):
3 Thoughtseize
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Ponder
1 Time Walk
1 Gaea’s Blessing

SB
2 Hellkite Overlord
1 Karrthus, Tyrant Of Jund
1 Painter’s Servant
1 Empyrial Archangel
3 Mindbreak Trap
3 Oxidize
4 Leyline Of The Void

3 R & D might be wrong, but I really do think it serves double duty as utility. Because I run 3 R & D it might be in my best interest to spice up the SB a bit more and not run boring 4-ofs like Leyine, but I'm not sure what a good wish-able R & D SB looks like that helps in beating the weak match-ups (TPS, Ichorid, etc).

Oxidize in some number seems like a necessary evil in the SB for combating Chalice @ 2, and Mindbreak Trap seems like it'd really shore up the TPS match-up, but I'm not quite as married to Leyline for this deck. I'm open to thoughts. Chime in?

-Storm

NOTE: Spell Snare is untested as yet, but it seems better to me than Remand when you are trying to force the issue by paying the upkeep even once or twice on Remora. Since it only costs U to cast it seems like a better fit than Remand for that reason alone. It is also a well-positioned card right now as it can help you push an Oath on the table through Mana Drain.

It also hits widely played cards that can give Oath problems like:

Confidant (since we are trying to win the counter war Card Advantage can really hurt us)
Meddling Mage (obviously bad for us)
Qasali Pride-mage (pretty bad for Oath I hear)
Tarmogoyf (not a huge deal for us, but can be worth countering in certain situations)
Time Vault (must be stopped)
Daze
DT/Scroll/Cabal Ritual/Regrowth
Seals
Spheres

the list could go on. I look at Spell Snare like Meddling Mage: it'll always have good targets, but it relies on a good pilot to know when to bust it out to get maximum mileage out of it.

[Andreas]

NOTE: Spell Snare is untested as yet, but [...]
It also hits widely played cards that can give Oath problems like:
[...]
Daze
[...]

When you have U up, du you really need Spell Snare to counter Daze?

[Scyther]

hehe.. good one. ^^

but i dont know either why spell snare should be NOW better then the usual suspects namely drain, Negate or even Leak... ?

[Killane]

I think an Oath list, in order to be successful in today's metagame with BS, Ponder, and Thirst Restricted, needs to take more risks and be more balls-out. And so I'm forced to agree with Killane's assessment of the deck. Obviously testing will prove both of us correct or incorrect, but, if I were to take all the comments that have been put out there and design the best oath list I can conceive of it would look something like this:

Iona   Oath

Land (17):
4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Misty Forest
3 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine

Artifacts (11):
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
4 Moxen (no Mox Pearl)
1 Mana Crypt
4 Null Rod

Creatures (1):
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

Enchantments (7):
4 Oath Of Druids
3 Mystic Remora

Instants (17):
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Thirst For Knowledge
3 Spell Snare
4 Force Of Will
1 Misdirection
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
3 Research // Development

Sorceries (7):
3 Thoughtseize
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Ponder
1 Time Walk
1 Gaea’s Blessing

SB
2 Hellkite Overlord
1 Karrthus, Tyrant Of Jund
1 Painter’s Servant
1 Empyrial Archangel
3 Mindbreak Trap
3 Oxidize
4 Leyline Of The Void

3 R & D might be wrong, but I really do think it serves double duty as utility. Because I run 3 R & D it might be in my best interest to spice up the SB a bit more and not run boring 4-ofs like Leyine, but I'm not sure what a good wish-able R & D SB looks like that helps in beating the weak match-ups (TPS, Ichorid, etc).

Oxidize in some number seems like a necessary evil in the SB for combating Chalice @ 2, and Mindbreak Trap seems like it'd really shore up the TPS match-up, but I'm not quite as married to Leyline for this deck. I'm open to thoughts. Chime in?

-Storm

NOTE: Spell Snare is untested as yet, but it seems better to me than Remand when you are trying to force the issue by paying the upkeep even once or twice on Remora. Since it only costs U to cast it seems like a better fit than Remand for that reason alone. It is also a well-positioned card right now as it can help you push an Oath on the table through Mana Drain.

It also hits widely played cards that can give Oath problems like:

Confidant (since we are trying to win the counter war Card Advantage can really hurt us)
Meddling Mage (obviously bad for us)
Qasali Pride-mage (pretty bad for Oath I hear)
Tarmogoyf (not a huge deal for us, but can be worth countering in certain situations)
Time Vault (must be stopped)
Daze
DT/Scroll/Cabal Ritual/Regrowth
Seals
Spheres

the list could go on. I look at Spell Snare like Meddling Mage: it'll always have good targets, but it relies on a good pilot to know when to bust it out to get maximum mileage out of it.

Thanks Storm.

I like the list. I still question Snare, though you make a good case for it.What about the new 1 CMC non-creature Leak for 2 that's just been spolied? That seems to have some promise, dodges chalice at two, but it does miss the dudes. Remand has worked well for me in testing, but I do agree that it's not 100% "right", especially in a mroe controllish build.

I think the SB could use some diversification to use with the R&D. Jailer (since you can Oath him up now), plus some kind of answer to Iona in the mirror,needs to be off-color and  preferably with flashback (???? drawing a blank on this one right now) I think would be nice.

Someone remind me- when flashing back a spell the CMC on the stack is the Flashback cost, correct? If so, I think Ancient grudge is a better choice than Oxidize since it can be played form the grave post-Oath, and if it's in hand vs chalice at two it essentially just costs 3, which is not so bad.

[voltron00x]

Can someone please explain to me why it is a good idea to play Mystic Remora in a deck with 17 lands (4 of which are Orchards, which don't really work well with Remora), 4 permanent artifact mana sources, and 2 one-shot artifact mana sources that is also running 4 Null Rods?

1 Mindbreak Trap seems exceptionally random.  Spell Snare kind of makes sense, but I still think that spells like that (and Negate) are more or less a trap when it comes to Oath decks.  R&D seems slow.

This list also seems like it has almost no shot against Ichorid.  If you're just running 4 Leyline, you might consider just running stone-cold nothing, IMO.

I don't mean to sound negative, I just don't think this seems better than existing ICBM-style Hellkite Oath, and it definitely seems worse than the list I played last weekend.  This deck is going to be WAY worse at finding Oath of Druids since it doesn't have Impulse, and it already has a slower win condition, so overall it just seems glacially slow to me...

[Stormanimagus]

Can someone please explain to me why it is a good idea to play Mystic Remora in a deck with 17 lands (4 of which are Orchards, which don't really work well with Remora), 4 permanent artifact mana sources, and 2 one-shot artifact mana sources that is also running 4 Null Rods?

1 Miindbreak Trap seems exceptionally random.  Spell Snare kind of makes sense, but I still think that spells like that (and Negate) are more or less a trap when it comes to Oath decks.  R&D seems slow.

This list also seems like it has almost no shot against Ichorid.  If you're just running 4 Leyline, you might consider just running stone-cold nothing, IMO.

I don't mean to sound negative, I just don't think this seems better than existing ICBM-style Hellkite Oath, and it definitely seems worse than the list I played last weekend.  This deck is going to be WAY worse at finding Oath of Druids since it doesn't have Impulse, and it already has a slower win condition, so overall it just seems glacially slow to me...

All the points you make are valid, and traditional Hellkite Oath builds may indeed be better, but is Impulse really the best dig spell out there? THAT actually seems slow IMO and there's gotta be a card that does the job better or at least produces more Card Advantage. That was the main reason for Remora. It forces the opponent to play differently during the first couple turns or you get serious Card Advantage. I realize now that it may be sub-par with Null Rod + Orchards, but I'd still like to finick with it a bit and see if it can work. Again, the Hellkite brand of Oath is tried and true, but it has one glaring weakness against a deck like Tezz in that tezz can just win either the turn after you drop Oath or the turn after that.

You: Resolve Oath
They: Tutor up Vault
You: Oath up Hellkite and swing for 8-10
They: Tutor up Key and don't give you another turn.

This seems like a very common play against Hellkite Oath and it only gets worse against TPS where their entire game plan can be brought online any turn. This is the major reason that I think Iona deserves testing, but I'm not sure my list even scratches the surface of an optimal list. If you have ideas for an Iona list I'd certainly like to hear them as I really respect your opinion on Oath builds voltron00x. Thanks in advance.

@thread. The new spoiled counterspell does seem rather good, but it may not be any better than Daze would be for us. Hmmmmm. . . I'll have to give that one some thought.

[voltron00x]

Can someone please explain to me why it is a good idea to play Mystic Remora in a deck with 17 lands (4 of which are Orchards, which don't really work well with Remora), 4 permanent artifact mana sources, and 2 one-shot artifact mana sources that is also running 4 Null Rods?

1 Miindbreak Trap seems exceptionally random.  Spell Snare kind of makes sense, but I still think that spells like that (and Negate) are more or less a trap when it comes to Oath decks.  R&D seems slow.

This list also seems like it has almost no shot against Ichorid.  If you're just running 4 Leyline, you might consider just running stone-cold nothing, IMO.

I don't mean to sound negative, I just don't think this seems better than existing ICBM-style Hellkite Oath, and it definitely seems worse than the list I played last weekend.  This deck is going to be WAY worse at finding Oath of Druids since it doesn't have Impulse, and it already has a slower win condition, so overall it just seems glacially slow to me...

All the points you make are valid, and traditional Hellkite Oath builds may indeed be better, but is Impulse really the best dig spell out there? THAT actually seems slow IMO and there's gotta be a card that does the job better or at least produces more Card Advantage. That was the main reason for Remora. It forces the opponent to play differently during the first couple turns or you get serious Card Advantage. I realize now that it may be sub-par with Null Rod + Orchards, but I'd still like to finick with it a bit and see if it can work. Again, the Hellkite brand of Oath is tried and true, but it has one glaring weakness against a deck like Tezz in that tezz can just win either the turn after you drop Oath or the turn after that.

You: Resolve Oath
They: Tutor up Vault
You: Oath up Hellkite and swing for 8-10
They: Tutor up Key and don't give you another turn.

This seems like a very common play against Hellkite Oath and it only gets worse against TPS where their entire game plan can be brought online any turn. This is the major reason that I think Iona deserves testing, but I'm not sure my list even scratches the surface of an optimal list. If you have ideas for an Iona list I'd certainly like to hear them as I really respect your opinion on Oath builds voltron00x. Thanks in advance.

@thread. The new spoiled counterspell does seem rather good, but it may not be any better than Daze would be for us. Hmmmmm. . . I'll have to give that one some thought.

The easiest way to address your concern re: Time Vault is to tweak the mana base and play Ancient Grudge, or to do what you did and play Null Rod (although I prefer it in the SB personally, but that's a metagame call).  The Hellkite list I played last weekend and talked about in my article Monday still runs Hellkites so it isn't really "faster" per se, but running REBs and Ancient Grudge along with multiple ways to get Yawg Will  (which can be an auto-win depending on what ends up in your graveyard when you Oath) gives it a much better match-up against Vault decks such as Tezz and SCV.  That's probably the style of deck I'll continue to play.  I may actually add a 3rd Grudge once the mana becomes easier to manipulate with the new fetches.  The removal of Chalice of the Void, Null Rod, and Gaea's Blessing all make it possible to abuse Will.

I like Iona a lot and I think I may try her out in place of Karrthus, just to see how it goes, but I don't think she's so good that she requires reinventing the wheel when it comes to Oath.  I think ultimately though the best home for Iona is as a reanimation target in Extended Dredge.  She may also prove to be playable in Vintage & Legacy Ichorid.

[Killane]

Can someone please explain to me why it is a good idea to play Mystic Remora in a deck with 17 lands (4 of which are Orchards, which don't really work well with Remora), 4 permanent artifact mana sources, and 2 one-shot artifact mana sources that is also running 4 Null Rods?

1 Miindbreak Trap seems exceptionally random.  Spell Snare kind of makes sense, but I still think that spells like that (and Negate) are more or less a trap when it comes to Oath decks.  R&D seems slow.

This list also seems like it has almost no shot against Ichorid.  If you're just running 4 Leyline, you might consider just running stone-cold nothing, IMO.

I don't mean to sound negative, I just don't think this seems better than existing ICBM-style Hellkite Oath, and it definitely seems worse than the list I played last weekend.  This deck is going to be WAY worse at finding Oath of Druids since it doesn't have Impulse, and it already has a slower win condition, so overall it just seems glacially slow to me...

Your analysis of Mystic Remora in this list ressonates with me. Maybe Impluse x 2 plus a Lim-Dul's vault would be better. I think my Goldfishing with Remora had some deceptive luck, as I consistantly drew into fetches and did nto take into accoutn Wasteland effects for the duals.

I think Storm's SB is not yet fully tuned, however 4 x Leyline plus plenty of disruption has been enough for me vs Ichorid in the past - if you can keep the line on the table it's GG. I liek the idea of adding a Jailer that you can R&D out in game one. Jailer is a legit Oath target vs Ichorid IMHO, so just leave it in for game 2 and (if there is a) game 3, plus Iona on black shuts off Return, Therapy, Darkblast, Unmask, etc.... so it's better than Dragons vs Ichorid already.

I really want a Pithing needle in the board.... not sure if we can run Ancient Grudge x 2 instead of Oxidize x3 and drop the Empyrial Archangel as well, adding in Pithing Needle x 1 (which slows down Ichorid quite a bit on Bazaar, as is a fine card to board vs Tezz and Workshop decks) and Jailer. The Grudge flashback cost dodges Chalice at two and seems to have more synergy with Oath.  Archangel does seem to add anythign to this build IMHO.

The singleton Mindbreak Trap is similar to the singelton Misdirection, giving us another free counterspell. Trap also exiles the threat, removing it from YawgWin consideration, and offers random wins vs Storm decks.

I think we need something other than Spell Snare. What it is, I don;t know, but Snare seems more like a legacy card to me - i'd hate to be holding 2x Snare in my hand vs the opponent holding YawgWin and FoW.

I echo Storm's sentiment - what do you think would be best for an Iona list? Your work on Double Dragon Oath has been most impressive to me, but I think Iona has what it takes to push Oath ove the edge and make it a real contender.

[voltron00x]

The Grudge flashback cost dodges Chalice at two and seems to have more synergy with Oath.  Archangel does seem to add anythign to this build IMHO.

The singleton Mindbreak Trap is similar to the singelton Misdirection, giving us another free counterspell. Trap also exiles the threat, removing it from YawgWin consideration, and offers random wins vs Storm decks.

Unfortunately the Grudge will still be countered by Chalice on 2; Chalice looks at the CMC of Grudge as printed on the card. My SB was running Krosan Grip and Oxidize in addition to MD Wipe Away for answers to Chalice on 2.

Mindbreak Trap is much worse than a singleton MisD, in my opinion.  MisD can randomly win games by stealing Recall or redirecting Thoughtseize, but mostly it helps resolve Oath through counterspells.  Oath needs spells that are more active than reactive, IMO.  The ICBM-style deck runs more disruption and the Negates to buy additional time.  My current list just runs more bombs and Vault/Key and takes a considerably more active role.  I think that's the direction we want to go.  I'd probably rather play 2 MisDs than a 1/1 split with Trap.  

I'd rather use red to play REBs out of the board against dedicated control decks, since that allows oath to duress/TS, then play Oath with REB and FoW back-up.

[Doomsday]

They have to cast 3 spells for the trap to be free, not two of yours and one of theirs.  Not good.

[AmbivalentDuck]

Is Painter's Servant really that bad?  Consider these differences from Hellkite Oath:

-3 Dragons
+1 Iona, Servant, Yawg Will

-Negate
-1 Thoughtseize
+2 Red Blast

-Thirst
-Lim-Dul's Vault
-Divining Top
+3 Intuition

Intuition can get Oath, or with Oath resolved (or sure to resolve) you can Intuition for Servant , Time Walk, Yawg Will.

Oh, duh...you could also just run 3-4x Lim-Dul's Vault to guarantee that you get Iona first.

[Scyther]

with intuition u need a minimum of 5 mana, a max of 8 to cast pinter after the first oath activation, that also has to be the iona....

sounds terrible!..

someone mentioned that even living wish for painter is, with 4 mana, to much ..

and of course one can run more bad cards to make a bad idea work.

[Killane]

The Grudge flashback cost dodges Chalice at two and seems to have more synergy with Oath.  Archangel does seem to add anythign to this build IMHO.

The singleton Mindbreak Trap is similar to the singelton Misdirection, giving us another free counterspell. Trap also exiles the threat, removing it from YawgWin consideration, and offers random wins vs Storm decks.

Unfortunately the Grudge will still be countered by Chalice on 2; Chalice looks at the CMC of Grudge as printed on the card. My SB was running Krosan Grip and Oxidize in addition to MD Wipe Away for answers to Chalice on 2.

Note sure what I was thining there... been a while since I dealt with flashaback cards in any real way sorry for the silly error.

I'm not ignoring the rest of your comments I just need to stew on them for a while.