Zendikar boosters include Ancestral Recall?

[wox2]

Today my friend noticed thread on http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=186720. Thread is saying there were opened OLD GOOD CARDS in Zendikar boosters. I am not sure if it is mistake or if that was prepared move but what does it mean for Vintage? Accessibility to Vintage for more players? P9 printed again? The fall of Vintage? The Rise of Vintage tournaments? The stupid joke?

I am not sure where this thread belongs to so mods pls move it to right location.

[NodFreak]

Even if this is real, i doubt it will have ANY impact on vintage...

It looks more like a promotion for the pre-releases and we dont know if this will continue after it.

And, if real, they are repacks... so they took already printed cards and just put them in boosters... so its not like they will be buying 100 p9 and then repacking them.

[zeus-online]

Hmm any pictures of these cards yet? I'm wondering how a Zendikar AR looks.

This sounds awesome....Almost unbelievable

[wox2]

I agree with you Zeus. It is hardly believable. I've found this http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=186613.

[Diakonov]

You know...I assumed immediately that this was absolutely ridiculous, but then someone in the thread pointed out this very recent rules change:


Section 7.3 — Card Use in Limited Tournaments
Other than basic land, only cards from the expansions of the boosters opened (and only cards opened in that player's pool) may be used in a player's deck. For example, in a Magic 2010 Sealed Deck tournament, any card in a booster other then the Magic 2010 game cards received by the player and basic land may not be used in a player's deck during that tournament.

Section 7.5 — Sealed Deck Swap
In Sealed Deck tournaments, the Head Judge may require players to perform a deck swap prior to deck construction. Players receive unopened product and register the contents (except basic land cards) on deck lists. Any card in a booster that is not a card from the expansion of the opened booster is retained by the player that registers the cards (example: a player that registers the contents of a booster during a deck swap keeps the token card, if any). Players who drop from the tournament before fulfilling this duty will receive a match loss in the first round. Tournament Officials then collect the recorded card pools and re-distribute them randomly. A player may randomly receive the product he or she registered. The Head Judge should require players to sort the cards they register according to some criteria (e.g. color and then alphabetically) to assist the player receiving the pool.


If this is fake, it was a very clever rumor to start alongside this rules change.

[Nehptis]

Hmm any pictures of these cards yet? I'm wondering how a Zendikar AR looks.

This sounds awesome....Almost unbelievable

According to the Rumor they are NOT reprints.  They are just old cards put into Zen packs.

[Harlequin]

I'm sckeptical of how many old cards were put into packs.  I'll bet the vast majority of these cards are in that $20-40 range or lower: Mox Diamond, Candelabra, The Abyss (actaully any of the cards that were turned into Maguses I could see being packed).  BB-Duals wouldn't be out of the question.  They could easily be in there as the grabbers. 

But I really doubt that any claims of Moxen, Recall, or lotus are real. 

This whole thing sounds to me like Ebay Repacks auctions ...   

FOR $4 PER LOT YOU COULD GET A LOTUS!  Here are all the great cards that have been opened so far.  Still Millions of lots remaining!!

 

[Diakonov]

This whole thing sounds to me like Ebay Repacks auctions ...   

FOR $4 PER LOT YOU COULD GET A LOTUS!  Here are all the great cards that have been opened so far.  Still Millions of lots remaining!!

 

So True.  At least the other cards in the pack are still Zendikar randoms as opposed to complete trash.

[Smmenen]

This is apparently real, and Moxen have been opened. 

[pierce]

This is apparently real, and Moxen have been opened. 

link/proof please?

could be cool. obv they care about vintage some, with all the trap cards they've printed that deal with storm and dredge in this set. i'd be shocked if they cared about vintage this much though.

[kkoie]

So my question is, what, if any impact will this have on the current prices of power?  My initial thinking is none, but a smaller, more paranoid part of my brain thinks otherwise.

[honestabe]

PRICELESS TREASURES

[Tobi]

This is apparently real, and Moxen have been opened. 

Here too. A german card store has opened a Mox Jet in like 27 displays. www.magickartenmarkt.de --> news (in german)

[korgano]

lolwut?

[DubDub]

So my question is, what, if any impact will this have on the current prices of power?  My initial thinking is none, but a smaller, more paranoid part of my brain thinks otherwise.

That depends on several things.  Most importantly, we don't (yet) know where these are coming from, or in what quantity.  Presumably Wizards has had them in old stock, which means they weren't on the market previously.  If they weren't on the market previously then, in general, this will serve to increase supply, driving the market clearing price down. 

However, that's only if the demand for power/ABUR-duals stays static.  Such a seeding of older cards may well increase demand for older cards (if a standard player opens an old card and decides to get into an eternal format).

Additionally, this move could be seen as a 'sign' of several potential shifts in policy (reprints+reserve list etc), which may alter demand for eternal cards among the existing crop of eternal players.  I would think that any actual announcement of a change to the reserved list would result in a greater shock to the market for power/eternal-cards.

I think, speaking speculatively here, that most of these cards will end up joining the market without an associated increase in demand.  Perhaps that's just the pessimist in me (which is to say, that we won't get many new vintage players, though the same conclusion leads logically to some small price decrease, which I can appreciate).

[Harlequin]

I also think it won't have any messurable impact either. 

Another factor is that its not going to effect supply unless the person who opens it wants to sell it.  while a good chunk of what is opened will be opened by stores and/or stictly T2 PTQ players - an equally (if not greater) chunk will be opened by Little Jonhey 10-packs.  Someone who plays magic for fun, does some drafting maybe, but generally just is spending his allowence on packs.  If one of these people opens up a PRICELESS TREASURE OF ZENDIKAR, how likely are they to just turn around and sell it? 

So this type of person wasn't in the market for power before or after they opened up thier golden ticket.

[mike_bergeron]

This is apparently real, and Moxen have been opened. 

This is Madness! Actually, a rather cool marketing campaign to reinvigorate interest in drafting/cracking boosters!

[Sporkcore]

This might be good for vintage. Lets say a casual player opens a piece of power. His/her friends don't let them play with said piece of power due to whatever house rules they have. This player find out about local proxy vintage tournament and plays in it. They have a great time and tell their friends. Next thing we know, it's more people playing in tournaments like we've wanted.

[Diakonov]

I get the feeling that this might be a way for WotC to "test the waters," so to speak, to see what kind of reaction they get from consumers.  All the questions that people are asking about whether or not it will affect the value of their cards is exactly what they may be looking for.  Depending on how upset collectors are or how much the prices of power are truly affected, it might pave the way for future revisions to the Reserved List, and potential reprints of power.

It seems like a very reasonable approach if you were considering whether or not to reprint power.

[BruiZar]

i think this is a great way to introduce more power into the market. I welcome every new player that got their first piece of power fresh from a pack of zendikar! I have bought several thousand euros worth of cards and I don't mind at all that some lucky player is going to get a piece of power for 3 euro.

[Greeg]

i think this is a great way to introduce more power into the market. I welcome every new player that got their first piece of power fresh from a pack of zendikar! I have bought several thousand euros worth of cards and I don't mind at all that some lucky player is going to get a piece of power for 3 euro.

Chances are, they will be spending a lot more than that to pull one of these. The numbers aren't in peoples favors.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

This is apparently real, and Moxen have been opened.  

mind if I ask how you know its real?

[honestabe]

I feel that this is the perfect way to re-introduce power into the system.

We probably should have seen this coming with the whole FTFV Exiled, and Zendikars slogan being "priceless treasure"

None the less, I really and glad that wizards is giving vintage a lot of love

[Tobi]

Apparently the repacked cards are not mint, at least that's what I have heard. So these are probably not additional power thrown to the market, but cards taken from the market by Wizards. Possible?

[Bill Copes]

This is apparently real, and Moxen have been opened. 

mind if I ask how you know its real?

Exactly.  I'll believe this when either A) I physically see someone pull an old card from one of the packs or B) when Wizards officially announces that they have done this -- beyond their rules change.

Some comments in forums and a couple sentences on a German website are not enough proof for anybody to really get excited about this.

[Smmenen]

This is apparently real, and Moxen have been opened. 

mind if I ask how you know its real?

Exactly.  I'll believe this when either A) I physically see someone pull an old card from one of the packs or B) when Wizards officially announces that they have done this -- beyond their rules change.

Some comments in forums and a couple sentences on a German website are not enough proof for anybody to really get excited about this.

The Judges list has officially announced it:

From DCIJudge Digest:
Events have begun in Japan, so Zendikar is

    * fficially upon us.


Rather than answer questions piecemeal, and to give you the tools you =
need in your role as the talkers in your communities, here is the =
complete rundown of what I can say in regards to Zendikar...
Q: I heard that there are vintage cards in Zendikar boosters - is it =
correct?
A: Yes, certain authentic vintage cards have been inserted in some =
booster packs for Zendikar.

Q: Are the vintage cards real? Or are they reprints?
A: These cards are actual original cards, not reprints.

Q: How many vintage cards are in the set?
As a general policy, we don't disclose collation for a given card set. =
There are over 90 different vintage cards.

Q: Why did Wizards insert vintage cards in Zendikar boosters?
A: The cards fit the game play and theme of the Zendikar set which is =
about 'deadly perils and priceless treasures'.

Q: Which vintage cards did you insert?
Consistent with the game play and theme of the set, we included some of =
the most powerful cards in Magic's history.=20

Q: Can I play these vintage cards in a tournament?
A: These vintage cards retain their current status in the tournament =
environment. They are allowed in certain organized play formats that can =
be found on www.magicthegathering.com.=20

Q: Are vintage cards inserted in all Zendikar boosters? Including =
reprints?
Vintage cards, like all cards in Magic, are not available in all packs.  =
We do not disclose collation information.=20

Q: Are vintage cards inserted in Magic Online Zendikar boosters?
No. No vintage cards are inserted in Magic Online Zendikar boosters.

To recap:
Yes, vintage cards are in boosters.  Yes, they're originals, not =
reprints. =20
No, you can't play in your limited Zendikar event with pre-Zendikar =
cards.
No, we can't talk about which cards, how many have been inserted, or =
where they came from.
Yes, the MTR already covers this somewhat new situation (foil Lightning =
Bolts in Nemesis, anyone?).
If someone opens a "priceless treasure," they should keep it and enjoy.  =
The truck with the "deadly perils" boxes had a horrific accident, so the =
only deadly perils this weekend are the traps across the table from you. =

[Bone]

This will be THE most sold wizards set in a long time. So many nice cards.. and now this

T2
Extended
Legacy
Vintage

Alot of nice stuff for all formats, yay (my wife says noooo....)

(my wallet says nooo....)

[tito del monte]

Holy crap!! My head is spinning from all this.

I'm not sure I feel about - when it seemed certain earlier today, I thought I'd flip with excitement and immediately ordered a box. Now I'm kind of torn.

Part of me thinks that this could be awesome - and is grateful that Wizards still have the capacity to surprise. They've obviously followed a lot of the discussions about the helth of Vintage and chosen to do something radical (that I think very few of us could have predicted) to try and answer some of the format's problems, without violating the reserve list. I really do applaud them for trying something so bold. I also wonder if it's a precursor to them backing a big Vintage event next year, maybe in the form of an eternal weekend as mooted on these boards - I'm sure most would agree that that would be an amazing boon for the format.

The other part of me is scared that this is the end of Magic. Like they've accepted that business or creative reasons, the game we love has come to the end of it's life and they're just cleaning up the cupboards, sticking in the cards we've all clamoured for (fetches) and getting ready to switch the lights off - otherwise why not hold out until the 20th anniversary to do this? I really hope I'm wrong.

Still - tomorrow is going to be a very amazing, weird day!

[Bill Copes]

@ What Smmenen said:
That sounds pretty concrete to me.  Opinion/Belief converted.  Consider me a wizards-fearing magician.

[BruiZar]

There are more and more mega T1 tournaments in Europe. A japanese player won worlds, and there is also the American vintage scene. Maybe the realization that vintage has worldwide appeal has helped adjust the way wizards treats the Vintage community?