Discussion - Mastering the Workshop sideboard + games 2 and 3

[Twaun007]

The general maindeck package of stax is still a consistent contender, in all these variations. The real challenge is sideboarding.

Vroman hit the hammer right on the head of the nail with this one.

It's not just important to have a strong sideboard accompanying your list, it’s also important to know how to use it. Another important aspect of mastering the Workshop archetype strategy is how different the deck plays out in games two and three.

I've noticed that most discussion in the Workshop threads revolve around what should be included in the main vs. what should be included, or how to properly sideboard.

Hopefully this discussion will grant us some insight on problematic match ups and any difficulties that Workshop pilots are having games two and three.  


I also hope it helps us dominate blue mages.  

Before we get into the meat of this, is there anyone who would like to ask any specific questions i.e. Do you take Black Lotus out in the mirror if your opponent runs Goblin Welder, do you take out Mana Vault every game two and three, how important are SoR’s on the draw against Tezzeret, etc……?


My first rule of thumb with sideboarding is that I will never lose to dredge, ever. There is absolutely no excuse for skipping out on the dredge hate. You may think it is cute to avoid the match up, but it will only be a matter of time till you’re on the cusp waiting to get into the top 8 while your opponent Serum Powders into a hand stating “Auto keep!”


Let's dance.

[BC]

I'll start.  Here's my sideboard for Mono-R Stax:

3 Duplicant
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Viashino Heretic
2 Greater Gargadon
2 Jester's Cap
2 Ensnaring Bridge

And my typical sideboarding strategy:

Workshop Decks
+ Duplicants
+ Heretics
- Null Rods
- Spheres
Red Stax has a pretty good game against MUD, due to Welders.  Post-board Heretics make the matchup even more one-sided.  Spheres rarely do anything, Null Rods can be useful depending on what the opponent has in their deck.  Duplicants are better than either, especially now that Lodestone is an auto 4-of. 

Oath
+ Jester's Caps
+ Gargadons
+ Duplicants
+ Ensnaring Bridges
- Spheres
- Lodestone
Sphere effects are pretty iffy, since they really only need 2 mana to start Oathing.  Lodestone is doubly questionable, since it is also a creature.  Gargadons are the best sideboard card against Oath, but it is very narrow.  It is useful against exactly 0 other decks.  Jester's Cap is good too.  In the event that the opponent starts Oathing (not unlikely), Welders, Tangle Wire, Bridges, and Duplicants can keep you in the game.

Fish
+ Duplicants
+ Bridges
- Null Rods
- Spheres
This match is very swingy.  Null Rods are generally useless, Spheres are less than awesome.  Welder is really the best card to see in this matchup, especially post-board when you can juggle Bridges and Dups. 

Tendrils Combo
+ Caps
- Not sure (usually something like 1 Smokestack, 1 Crucible)
Nothing in the maindeck is bad in this matchup.  I think it would be fine to not board at all.  Jester's Cap is just really good against Tendrils, though.  I still try to make room.

Tezzeret
Nothing
I don't think anything in the sideboard improves the deck relative to anything in the maindeck.  If anything, I would bring in Jester's Cap, similar to the strategy against Tendrils.

Ichorid
+ Ensnaring Bridges
+ Tormod's Crypts
+ Duplicants
- Tangle Wires
- Smokestacks
- Null Rods
I also hate to lose against Ichorid.  3 Crypts and 2 Ensnaring Bridges is not always enough.  I would consider changing my sideboard to 2 Duplicant, 3 Ensnaring Bridge if I was expecting a lot of Ichorid.  Welders are awesome in this matchup as well.  All you really need to do is keep a Bridge on the board, or recur a T. Crypt a couple times. 

[LotusHead]

I regularly side out Mana Crypt (keep in Mana Vault) in every matchup.

Then I find what cards maindeck don't really have to be there.  Usually this is Smokestack#3 and maybe Crucible if my opponents aren't playing waste.  Then Titan comes out if opponent is not playing islands.  Then trike comes out if opponent not playing Bob's or creatures.
Then a few Chalices come out if on the draw.
Then spheres come out if against the mirror (or Thorn if against creature decks).
A Welder and a Golem come out if vs Oath.

Then I decide what sideboard goodies can fit to have a better game.

I've been specifically been trying to not OVERboard if I can help it

[nineisnoone]

I don't have a current shop list but generally, I like starting sideboards with 4x Leyline of the Void and 3x Pithing Needle.  I usually go MUD (more or less), so it gives me answers to Ichorid, Welders, and Time Vault and gives me 7 Ichorid answers out of the sideboard. 

With the rise of Spell Pierce, I think that Defense Grid should be more considered.  The lack of burst card drawing until Jace is playable gives Workshop a sizeable window before they start getting outdrawn.  No Thirst is huge.  Even if they are getting high quality cards with tutors or Brainstorms, they'll still need mana + answers + business so without actual card advantage card quality is less relevant.  Once you shut down their ability to counter you, all you need to do is play stuff to address their wins which Workshop is quite good at. 

[Razvan]

A lot depends on my maindeck, however, when it comes to sideboarding.

In your and Jerry's BR version, having Confidants and Bazaars is a huge bonus, and you might be able to get by with just 6. 4 Ensnaring Bridges and 2 Tormod's Crypts should be enough.

Bridges *can* be excellent against Oath as well, since in theory, you should be able to tie their mana down significantly, and even Terostadon cannot break through with a welder in play. They have outs, so it's not a insta-win like dredge, but if you put enough pressure, they will never get out from under it. Also, the fact that your best card, Lodestone, is a problem... well, let's not mention that. Sometimes, with Stax, you won't be able to prevent them from casting oath, or even triggering it (although Wasteland and Smokestack help with trigger, and Chalice for 2 helps with casting).

That's probably one of the better strengths of stax, the *maindeck* is very strong against most decks.

2 Gargadons seems right, and 3 Duplicants are never a bad thing to have going on, even though I don't think they are that clutch against Dredge.

So we have something like:

4 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Greater Gargadon
3 Duplicant
4 something else

Something else should probably fluctuate depending on what you look like you will face. Heretics, extra Karns, Triskelions...

[TheShop]

Question:  In the few 5 color builds I have seen you would be able to run spell piece out of the board to counter bounce, but you get the added benefit of being able to counter vault itself and the element of suprize

Has anyone considered this?  Also does anyone think the utility of hitting non-blue spells make up for the fact that it isn't a hard counter like REB?

Not really a direct hoser, but sees definite parallels to Cron with divert and many others with REB.  After all, everyone's answer to golem is maindeck or SB mass bounce.

General question: are cards that disrupt the enemy's game ending sideboard spells worth running or should you attack the core strategy only?

[LotusHead]

General question: are cards that disrupt the enemy's game ending sideboard spells worth running or should you attack the core strategy only?

I can't be bothered with worrying TOO much about my opponent's SB strategy.  I take out bad cards and put in good cards.  For example, I take out Null Rod vs Fish generally, because, well, they play their own Null Rods, and that makes Null Rod a bad card in that matchup.  Whether or not Fish is bringing in more Nature's Claims or Energy Fluxes, it's the Dudes that will win the matchup, so I board in as many men as I can fit.

I am always a bit surprised when opponents drop a game 2 Leyline on me.  I know it's a fine card against me, but it doesn't stop my locks or my men.  It just stops Crucible and Welder shennanigans.

But truth be told, my sided in cards only help if I get them into my hand and resolve them.  Often the SB cards don't come up and Stax just does it's Stax thing with the maindeck lockpieces that don't suck.

[swawagon]

I have long liked 2-3 Red Elemental Blast, as against decks like Tez or TPS their strongest play is an end-of-turn Hurkyl's Recall against you, or Tinker. REBs have many other relevant targets as well.

[nightmare1016]

Here's my current sideboard:

3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Pithing Needle
2 Duplicant
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Jester's Cap
1 Shattering Spree

So far, it seems to me that I have a fair sideboarding plan against the ff. decks:

Fish: REB (for Trygon Predator and/or Energy Flux), Duplicants, Needle (if the opponent is Vial based)
Ichorid: Needles, Relics and Crypts
Oath: Duplicants, Caps
Tezz: REB, Needle, Caps
Combo: Tormod's, Relic, Caps

But I can't seem to fit in an additional Shattering Spree or Viashino Heretic against the Workshop matchup. Any suggestions?

[LotusHead]

But I can't seem to fit in an additional Shattering Spree or Viashino Heretic against the Workshop matchup. Any suggestions?

My meta is only intermittently infested with Ichorid, with a good 75% chance of it just not being there, so my SB strategies are kind of skewed in that way.

But as a shop player, is 7 SB cards necessary vs Ichorid?  You already run 4-5 strip effects, which kind of counts as 4-5 slots already maindeck?

If you can live with 5 SB slots and 4-5 maindeck slots, then that would free up 2 SB slots for the shop matchup.  Are shops more prevalent in your meta, or dredge.dec?

[Bill Copes]

But I can't seem to fit in an additional Shattering Spree or Viashino Heretic against the Workshop matchup. Any suggestions?

Echoing LotusHead's post/approach on dredge, and pending on your meta, you can chop 1-2 slots to shore up the shop matchup.  I think you can afford to drop a pithing needle.  3 seems a little heavy, and it's probably your weakest card in that match, compared to strip effects and yard removal.  The other matches you cited using it, you could essentially run heretic or another shattering spree and hit the same problem cards with them (vault, key, vial, robots, etc.).

[Leooooh]

Hey,

Here is my current maidenck and sideboard for the Mono Red Stax.

    MonoRed Prison Stax
   
4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Rishadan Port
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Barbarian Ring
2 Mountain
   
4 Goblin Welder
4 Lodestone Golem
2 Duplicant
   
1 Black Lotus
5 Moxen
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
   
4 Tangle Wire
3 Crucible of Worlds
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Smokestack
4 Null Rod
1 Trinisphere

SB
2 - Duplicants
1 - Razormane Masticore
3 - Tormod's Crypt
3 - Relic of Progenitus
2 - Greater Gargadon
2 - Ensnaring Bridge
2 - Red Elemental Blast
 

I side it in this way:

Ichorid:

- 4 Tangle Wire
- 4 Null Rods
- 2 Smokestack
+ 3 Tormod's Crypt
+ 3 Relic of Progenitus
+ 2 Ensnaring Bridges
+ 2 Red Elemental Blast

Like, BC said, our gameplan for the first game against ichorid is horrible. So we need a good sb if we want to win the g2 and g3. For this we will need at least 7 cards in the side for the ichorid match! Decks that work with combo, like vault, or even storm side at least 6 cards against this deck. And they have a better clock then we! So sideboarding 7 plus cards against them is needed. Remember that Tormod's doesnt win the game, it only delays them!


Fish:

- 4 Null Rod
- 1 Sphere of Resistence
- 1 Crucible of Worlds
- 1 Smokestack
+ 2 Duplicant
+ 1 Razormane Masticore
+ 2 Ensnaring Bridge
+ 2 Red Elemental Blast

Against Fish, the main card that is autmomatically sided out is NUll Rod, plus the lonely sphere of resistence. I am testing if it's worth removing one Smokestack and one Crucible for the 2 REBs. It kills Meddling Mages, Trygons, Energy Flux and can protect a bomb! Really useful!


Oath:

- 4 Lodestone
- 1 Sphere of Resistence
- 1 Crucible
+ 2 Ensnaring Bridge
+ 2 Gargadons
+ 2 Duplicants

Together with ichorid, this is the worst matchup. I found room for the 2 Dupes maindeck to make this match, more winnable in the g1. If we can cast a welder, then this match will be more easier since we will be abble to weld dupe, and bridge all day long.


Tendrils:

- 1 Crucible
- 1 Duplicant
+ 2 Red Elemental Blast


Tezz:

-2 Crucible
+2 Red Elemental Blast.

Both matches, the maindeck are very favorable!

Workshop Aggro/ MUD:

- 1 Null Rod
- 1 Sphere of Resistence
- 1 Smokestack
- 1 Tangle Wire
- 1 Chalice of the Void
+ 2 Duplicant
+ 1 Razormane Masticore
+ 2 Ensnaring Bridge

I found some room in this matchup for sidiboarding 2 Ensnaring Bridges, because it can be a game ending for them! Their only out if playing against MUD, is to use Karn, transforming the bridge in to a 3/3 and then use triskelion, dupe or even razormane to remove it from the board. Otherwise, we can just sit on bazaar to empty the hand and kill them with ring, or keep a smokestack to eat their board.



 

[nightmare1016]

Are shops more prevalent in your meta, or dredge.dec?

Well, our local meta here in the Philippines is slowly (as far as I can remember) but surely becoming shop-prevalent. We have a medium-sized community (in my estimate) here, but it usually boils down to 3-6 shop players (mostly 13sphere aggro), and around 3-4 dredge players in any given 20-40 person tournament. The rest are usually Fish, Oath, and Tezz, and a few combo decks as well.

I haven't played in any tournaments lately, primarily due to work, but I can safely say that those are the usual numbers in our monthly tournaments.

If you can live with 5 SB slots and 4-5 maindeck slots, then that would free up 2 SB slots for the shop matchup.  

I can try to cut two Relics and put in 1 more Shattering Spree and 1 Viashino Heretic. I'll test this out and see what happens.

[elementum]

    MonoRed Prison Stax
   
4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Rishadan Port
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Barbarian Ring
2 Mountain
   
4 Goblin Welder
4 Lodestone Golem
2 Duplicant
   
1 Black Lotus
5 Moxen
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
   
1 Sphere of Resistence
4 Tangle Wire
3 Crucible of Worlds
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Smokestack
4 Null Rod
1 Trinisphere

SB
2 - Duplicants
1 - Razormane Masticore
3 - Tormod's Crypt
3 - Relic of Progenitus
2 - Greater Gargadon
2 - Ensnaring Bridge
2 - Red Elemental Blast

I know, we're talking about sideboards and boarding plans, but I'm very interested in your maindeck as well. Due to the lag of CC2 spheres I guess you have a hard time (compared to e.g. 12 or 13 sphere MUD) facing any blue deck in general.

Especially the Oath and the Fish MU should be very hard without at least 4 Sphere of Resistance. Fair enough, you've got CotV to stop oath playing it's keycard(s), but it doesn't really stop Fish (if set on 2, it will stop pridemage and goyf, but doesn't do anything against their biggest threat, trygon predator. If set on 3 it only does sth against trygon but let them play every other card included to the deck.

wouldn't it be better to play play 4 Sphere of resistance instead of 4 CotV, since sphere gives you more time to establish a smokestack or even a welder/dup-"lock". It also wouldn't hurt as much as CotV, which, set on 1 or 2 cuts of either your main engine (goblin welder) or your key lockelement (null rod).

the only reason why running CotV over SoR in this deck could be the increadible 1st turn with lodestone+chalice, but its brokenes IMO is nullified by the 4 maindeck null rods.


To the Sideboard:

I don't know if REB is worth to be played over the 4th Relic and the 3rd bridge, since oath, ichorid and mud are tough MUs and you could leave in the 3rd crucible against fish, which is IMO very important for this MU.

[Leooooh]

@elementum
Hey,
About this list....It plays in a different way. To beguin, this deck has the line of tought that null rod and chalice, hits more mana than Resistors. As a vintage player, I prefer a lot to see a sphere when playing against a workshop deck, rather then a chalice set on a specific value, that will cut my answers or combo (Oath, for example). I also prefer to see a resistor rather than a null rod with wastelands, that will nuke my mana base. But here comes the trick....4 Bazaars!!!
Those cards are used to filter useless cards and to find answers or threats, so you can have a threat every single turn. Its a VROMAM style stax deck. It pplays with only Golem being the resistor effect, and thinking that resistor delays you. I will post some links for you, so you can read about this kind of deck.

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=38630.0
(this link, he explains really well about why no resistors, about the chalice issue, the use of bazaar and etc)

http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=5577
(I build this deck using this list as an example)

http://unpopularideasclub.blogspot.com/2009/12/collapsing.html
(Vroman's Bazaar tutorial.....REALLY USEFUL)



Another tip....I would NEVER swap chalices for resistors. Chalice shuts cards imediately. Resistor only delays them! Never do this!

As for the fish and Oath matchup, here is the explaining. Oath only costs 1G, so its not impossible to cast it. I have chalice @2, Null Rod + Wastelands, Wires+Smokestacks to prevent it from resolving. If it resolves, the plan goes on finding answers with bazaar, such as duplicants, welders, wires+smokeys. If you analise those scenarios, you will see that sphere doesn't do much things, mainly in the second. And in the second it will sometimes delay you of casting a bomb to fight their threats.
Same goes for the fish matchup....Smokestacks with wires are huge against them. Dupe with welder, if unchecked its an auto gg. So its not so hard. Both matches require practice, deciding wich hand is keepable, how to use bazaar properly (many people don't know...they only see it as a card disadvantage) and knowing your deck. Spheres help a bit here, but i can assure you that Lodestone Golem is the better sphere right now. Its a monster against them, and it slows them down.

About the REBs, they have a lot of uses, but my main idea is for mass artifact bounce (Rebuild, Hurkyl's), Tezz and Jace, Energy Flux and Trygon  Predator! I am still testing it. I might even add another one! Too early to say!

I hope I could give you a better understanting of why not running spheres. The user THE SHOP, also suports no resistor versions with 4 bazaars. Any questions, just post it here or send a message!

[Leooooh]

Hey,

I have a question for this threads, that many people might have too!!

Is Jester's Cap still a good sideboard card for workshop decks nowadays??

In the past, it used to nuke combo and oath decks, since those decks ran only 3- win conditions. It was still a nice choice against tezz in the past! Now, many of those decks run 3+ win conditions. Here goes the list.

Oath:
-3 critters (Tera, Sphinx, Iona, Emrakul, DSC, Inkwell)
-Vault/Key (not a win condition if they don't have a way to kill you)
-Tezz (mainly the kill for the above option)
-1 or 2 Jace, the Mindsculptor
 
Tezz:
- 3 or 4 Dark Confidants
- Robot (Sphinx, Inkwell or DSC)
- Tezz
- Vault/Key
-  Jace, the Mindsculptor

Tendrils Decks:
- 1 to 3 tendrils
- Robot (Sphinx, Inkwell or DSC)
- And sometimes they use vault/key, tezz or Jace, the Mindsculptor.


I think those would be the matches I would side in Jester's Cap. But all those decks have more then 3 win conditions. So siding it in, would only delay their plan????
What do you guys think?

[BC]

I still run 2x Jester's Caps in my sideboard.  You're right that it doesn't always win the game outright, but it will usually disrupt their main strategy and slow them down enough that you can lock them out.  For example, you activate Cap vs. Oath and take all their monsters and Time Vault if they are only running 2 monsters.  They still have Jace and maybe Tezzeret in their deck, but now Oath does nothing.  They have to find and resolve one of their Planeswalkers and keep it on the board until it can go ultimate.  That should give you plenty of time.  Same situation for combo if you take 2x Tendrils and their robot.

It is also important to note that Jester's Cap can be recurred with Welder.  2 Cap activations will sink almost all control/combo decks.

[BruiZar]

I like earwig squad more than jesters cap. Your welder will get through, and when it does it is taking their 3 oath critters AND puts a 5 power creature into play that can one-hit planeswalker. Besides that, it´s also a clock. Jester´s Cap is just too slow even if you can recurr it

[BC]

Jester's Cap can be played with Mishra's Workshop.  That should really be all I need to say about that.

[Prospero]

Hey,

I have a question for this threads, that many people might have too!!

Is Jester's Cap still a good sideboard card for workshop decks nowadays??

In the past, it used to nuke combo and oath decks, since those decks ran only 3- win conditions. It was still a nice choice against tezz in the past! Now, many of those decks run 3+ win conditions. Here goes the list.

Oath:
-3 critters (Tera, Sphinx, Iona, Emrakul, DSC, Inkwell)
-Vault/Key (not a win condition if they don't have a way to kill you)
-Tezz (mainly the kill for the above option)
-1 or 2 Jace, the Mindsculptor
 
Tezz:
- 3 or 4 Dark Confidants
- Robot (Sphinx, Inkwell or DSC)
- Tezz
- Vault/Key
-  Jace, the Mindsculptor

Tendrils Decks:
- 1 to 3 tendrils
- Robot (Sphinx, Inkwell or DSC)
- And sometimes they use vault/key, tezz or Jace, the Mindsculptor.


I think those would be the matches I would side in Jester's Cap. But all those decks have more then 3 win conditions. So siding it in, would only delay their plan????
What do you guys think?

Cap is fine if:

1.  Oath is a major player in the metagame.
2.  TPS is a major player in the metagame.

If you're fighting Shops, Dredge, even Tezz all day long, it's not good enough.  I would also never play Earwig Squad, because, as BC noted, it's not castable off a Workshop.

[Delha]

Cap is fine if:

1.  Oath is a major player in the metagame.
2.  TPS is a major player in the metagame.

If you're fighting Shops, Dredge, even Tezz all day long, it's not good enough.  I would also never play Earwig Squad, because, as BC noted, it's not castable off a Workshop.

I remember AmbivalentDuck pointing out that against Dredge an early cap can be used to take all their Bridges/Narcos, which slows them down very significantly. Do you disagree with the effectiveness of that plan? I realize that a T2 activation may be too late, but I'd think that affects both cards equally.

[Prospero]

Cap is fine if:

1.  Oath is a major player in the metagame.
2.  TPS is a major player in the metagame.

If you're fighting Shops, Dredge, even Tezz all day long, it's not good enough.  I would also never play Earwig Squad, because, as BC noted, it's not castable off a Workshop.

I remember AmbivalentDuck pointing out that against Dredge an early cap can be used to take all their Bridges/Narcos, which slows them down very significantly. Do you disagree with the effectiveness of that plan? I realize that a T2 activation may be too late, but I'd think that affects both cards equally.

Yes.  

There's hate that wins, and then there are cute effects.  Slowing them down like that isn't going to stop them.  Thankfully the printing of Lodestone Golem has made the traditional Shop Prison strategy more effective - you have a clock that slows their counter-hate.  

Cap has a place in certain metagames, but I don't think this one is it.  It doesn't do enough against a very bad match, and it takes up a lot of sideboard space when you're running multiples.  The Shop strategies that are played now don't tutor well - so if you want something, you better run multiples.  Given the choice of running Leylines, Tormod's Crypts, and whatever else for non-Dredge matches, I'd certainly choose this than choose to run a card (Cap) that plays best in a couple of matches that have gotten better (Oath and TPS.)  Especially considering that those two matches aren't as prominent as they were a few months ago.

[nightmare1016]

With the coming of Leyline of Sanctity in M11, and with it having a potential home in Dredge -- see here -- will we be forced to run Relics over Crypts against the Dredge matchup?

[Will]

With the coming of Leyline of Sanctity in M11, and with it having a potential home in Dredge -- see here -- will we be forced to run Relics over Crypts against the Dredge matchup?

Whether or not Dredge would keep/bring in Leyline of Sanctity vs. Mud is probably the better question to ask but if the only things that Leyline of Sanctity do against Stax is to invalidate our Tormod's Crypts then it looks like that card will probably get boarded out for card thats are necessary to winning the matchup from Dredge's point of view.  If this is the case then we may be fine with Tormod's Crypt even though the best bet is to ask someone who physically plays Dredge and does well with it what their sideboard plan is against MUD or Stax. 

[Odd mutation]

Hi,

Yesterday I took Stephen's MUD list to a tournament in Breda (the Netherlands). I didn't always know how to sideboard so any advice would be great! You can find my report here.

Thanks,

Robrecht

[TheShop]

Questions for the Stax faithful:

How do you sideboard when entering an unknown meta? (I really want to know this one)

Does leyline of sanc belong in the board over REB to stop bounce/oath?

Does your board change knowing that pesky blue players are packing 3-4 maindeck mass bounce?

Is it worth playing 4x leyline void & 4x planar void now that dredge has leyline sanc?  I contend that it may be since we run chalice to defend.  I am considering altering mono-red and moving to b/r (I still have issues with bob and no tutors, sry twaun)

I could potentially see me with a board like

4x leyline void
3x planar void
4x leyline sanc
2x dup(2 main)
2x heretic

this gives me 7 vs dredge, 6 vs oath, 8 vs tendrils, 4 vs mud, tezz is 0 but the main owns them.  With this board the game becomes "defend the leyline"...is this good for all-purpose?  Lastly, I will have bazaar to filter unwanted leylines.

[Leooooh]

I playtested some games yesterday against oath to see if the strategy is solid, and Ray proved to be amazing. It sinergyses well with bazaar and even if you cast a chalice at 2 and discard it to bazaar, if they kill you chalice at 2, you will have a promptly answer in the grave if they try to cast another oath.

Usually they spend some counters on your spheres, wires and stax, then you will usually have a breach to play ray in the EOT. Even if they counter it, make a flash back. The card is solid against oath......Really solid.

The board I am testing is the following:

3 Ray of Revelation
3 Ancient Grudge
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Duplicants

So against Oath, I kept a maindeck Duplicant, plus 2 dupes and 3 ray for the other games. Basically it goes the following.

- 4 Lodestone Golem
- 1 Crucible of Worlds
+ 3 Ray of Revelation
+ 2 Duplicants


Now I wanna test the Grudges against MUD/Mirror and tezz lists. I used this card a lot in the past, when playing the original 5c Stax decks, and it proved to be one of the best dedicated artifact hate. The flashback ability is freaking awesome!
In theory it should play well against mud decks, since I side out spheres and they do the same. The only problem I might see happening is with Lodestone Golem. The card doesn't sinergises well with it. But it should work

So for the MUD:

- 3 Sphere of Resistence
- 1 Null Rod
- 1 Chalice of the Void
+ 2 Duplicant
+ 3 Ancient Grudge

(This sb plan might change a bit, mainly because if the oponent uses metalworker, karn and other activated artifacts. If I see that they still use Null rod then, 2 rods will be sided out....It's like I said....I might change a bit).

Tezz:

- 2 Crucibles
+ 2 Grudges

The maindeck is still really solid againt them, so adding grudges will improve a little bit the match!


The ichorid board doesn't seem so solid. I know that leyline of the void is game ending for them if you can keep it on the board, but now with 4 claims and 4 chains in the ichorid dredge, this might be a little bit problematic!!
I thought about adding Jailers, but sphere and golem wll be kept for this match, so casting jailers might be a problem sometimes. I think I will need to work on this a little bit!

Any ideas? This is still a test....If the idea goes well, I will let you know!!!

For reference, here is the maindeck list:

4 Goblin Welder
4 Lodestone Golem
1 Duplicant
(9)

1 Lotus
5 MOxen
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
(8)

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Tangle Wire
4 Smokestack
3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Null rod
3 Sphere of Resistence
1 Trinisphere
(22)

4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Wasteland
4 City of Brass
3 Gemstone Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Strip Mine
(21)

[Twaun007]

How do you sideboard when entering an unknown meta? (I really want to know this one)

Going into an unknown meta I would have my sideboard equipped like this

Mono Red

2 Red Elemental Blast..... Good against every blue deck out there
2 Duplicant..... Good vs MUD, Fish, and somewhat Oath
2 Viashino Heretic..... Good vs MUD, Fish, and is alright vs Vault/Key
2 Tabernacle at The Pendral Vale..... With Tangle Wire this blows out aggro decks
4 Leyline of the Void..... Ichorid and Yawg Will decks
3 Tormod's Crypt..... Ichorid, Yawg Will decks and Goblin Welder shenanigans.

If I was playing a 5c list with Bazaars I would be running

3 Ray of Revelation
3 Ancient Grudge
2 Nature's Claim
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Tormod's Crypt

Does leyline of sanc belong in the board over REB to stop bounce/oath?

I'm going to say no. The resent trend in Tezzeret decks lately has been to splash green for Nature's Claim and Trygon Predator. It pretty much equals bad news bears for Leyline of Sanctity. Oath has already adjusted to beating CotV@2 with Nature's Claim and Leyline of Sanctity doesn't stop then from tutoring up Vault/Key.

Does your board change knowing that pesky blue players are packing 3-4 maindeck mass bounce?

It has actually changed knowing that they have cut their blue bounce in favor of green spot removal.

Is it worth playing 4x leyline void & 4x planar void now that dredge has leyline sanc?  I contend that it may be since we run chalice to defend.  I am considering altering mono-red and moving to b/r (I still have issues with bob and no tutors, sry twaun)

I could potentially see me with a board like

4x leyline void
3x planar void
4x leyline sanc
2x dup(2 main)
2x heretic

this gives me 7 vs dredge, 6 vs oath, 8 vs tendrils, 4 vs mud, tezz is 0 but the main owns them.  With this board the game becomes "defend the leyline"...is this good for all-purpose?  Lastly, I will have bazaar to filter unwanted leylines.

"Defend the Leyline" is strong vs Ichorid, but I don't think it is as sound vs Oath and TPS. Oath can ignore it by tutoring up Vault/Key or tutoring up a Nature's Claim. The biggest concern for TPS is finding Chain of Vapor so they can win without Yawgmoth's Will.

In regard to the BR build, you'll have to side out Bobby Digital a lot if you want to take the leyline route. Believe me, there is nothing more awesome that running Bobby Digital with 8 Leylines, 4 Golems and or 4 Smokestacks.