Jace's Erasure "combo" deck

[serracollector]

I was playing MWS with a fellow TMD'er and we started discussing Jace's Erasure.  

For reference

1U
enchantment
When ever you draw a card, you may have target player put the top card of his or her library into his or her graveyard.


Now to win with this you need to "draw infinite" cards, then pass the turn, or make them draw via ancestral, draw 7 w/e

1 of the ways to do this is:

Jace Erasure + 2 Sensei's Diving Top + Helm of Awakening, thus giving you an infinite draw loop (tap top, draw, put on top of lib, tap 2nd top, draw 1st one, play it for free, repeat).

Mind you though that Helm of awakening is VERY dangerous in the current Meta (if this wasn't obvious).

So I am trying to work on the decklist for this, and need help.

So far the core of the deck would be:

Ancestral, Brainstorm, Thirst
Time Walk
M.Tutor, Vamp, Dem Tutor, Mer Scroll, Tinker
Y will
4 x Top
3-4 x Helm
4 x Jace's Erasure
10 x SoLoMoxen, petal, ring, vault

This leaves lots of room for other cards, but the question is which ones?

Should it go "total" combo, and play draw 7's such as twister, wheel, jar, and windfall?

If I go total combo should I just throw in 4 defense grids?  Or go the "slow" route of FoW/Spell Pierce/Drains?

Should I play cloudkey instead of Helms of Awakening?  Is the 1 extra mana for them worth the fact they don't help my opponent?

I haven't tested with Key, but the fact that Helms also make draw 7's cheaper is a big deal sometimes.

What other draw engine/search should I use?  

Thoughts Cast
Intuition/AK
Meditate
Impulse
Compulsive Research (if I play over 17+ lands?)
Fabricate
Trinket Mage?
Dark Confidant? (if dark confidant then no Thought cast, too high cc IMO)


Lastly should I throw in the time vault/voltaic key combo if I got room?  Doubt tezz would make the list, BUT, jace might, milling you opponent for 3 each turn, while gaining CA is not "bad", and getting the rand vault/key for free with cloudkey/helms is "not bad".

And last question.....should I play Leyline of the Void or Tormod's Crypt maindeck?  Just in case I get stalled and the Jace's Erasure's are just fueling a big yawg win?

Thanks, any and all suggestions/idea's welcomed.

[Killane]

2 top is better with Etherium Sculptors than Helm of Awakening, removing the danger factor.

[serracollector]

Ah very true, totally forgot about etherium sculptor, and it can pitch to force.  Nice call, any other suggestions?

[Troy_Costisick]

You could combine it with Leyline of the Void and Helm of Obedience.

[Delha]

Ah very true, totally forgot about etherium sculptor, and it can pitch to force.  Nice call, any other suggestions?

How about HelmLine or some other mainboard grave hate? The last thing you want to do is mill a bunch w/out being able to going infinite, only to see your opponent go Vamp->Will->GGYL.

Edit: Damn you, Troy!

[serracollector]

Hmmm the problem with leyline is unless u get it turn 1, its not easily castable without rituals, which I do not want to add, cuz then it might as well be a Storm deck.

Wouldn't 1-2 Tormod's Crypt/Relic of Progenitus maindeck be better alongside the 2-3 trinket mage?

Seems it would "fit" the profile of the deck better IMO.

[Killane]

Hmmm the problem with leyline is unless u get it turn 1, its not easily castable without rituals, which I do not want to add, cuz then it might as well be a Storm deck.

Wouldn't 1-2 Tormod's Crypt/Relic of Progenitus maindeck be better alongside the 2-3 trinket mage?

Seems it would "fit" the profile of the deck better IMO.

I'd go with Relic if I were you, since Sanctified Dredge seems to be catching on and Crypt is le Suck in that matchup.

[Troy_Costisick]

Hmmm the problem with leyline is unless u get it turn 1, its not easily castable without rituals, which I do not want to add, cuz then it might as well be a Storm deck.

Wouldn't 1-2 Tormod's Crypt/Relic of Progenitus maindeck be better alongside the 2-3 trinket mage?

Seems it would "fit" the profile of the deck better IMO.

I'd go with Relic if I were you, since Sanctified Dredge seems to be catching on and Crypt is le Suck in that matchup.

And it turns Tarmogoyfs into harmless, 0/1's.

Ah very true, totally forgot about etherium sculptor, and it can pitch to force.  Nice call, any other suggestions?

How about HelmLine or some other mainboard grave hate? The last thing you want to do is mill a bunch w/out being able to going infinite, only to see your opponent go Vamp->Will->GGYL.

Edit: Damn you, Troy!

*snickers*

[Delha]

Oh yeah, just remembered... My first thought when I saw the card spoiled was Teferi's Puzzle Box. Probably too cute, but just figured I'd throw it out there.

[Troy_Costisick]

Oh yeah, just remembered... My first thought when I saw the card spoiled was Teferi's Puzzle Box. Probably too cute, but just figured I'd throw it out there.

It could be played as a one-of as a Tinker target.

[TheShop]

Just an aside, this is a 4 card combo requiring you to have 2 copies one single card.  Because it is the jace's erasure and the helm are not good by themselves, it is going to take you several turns more to put this combo together than any other deck your opponent could be playing...even with tutors.  The best tutors you could possibly run are gifts and intuition because they at least find 3 pieces of the combo and put them somewhere where you could find them.  But even then, you have to find a way to grab them back.

Also, this deck is just as susceptible as vault + key to artifact hate but it takes 2-3 turns longer to assemble.  Rod owns this deck in the face even worse than other artifact decks because top adds to your count.

It is a neat idea for a deck that should probably be relegated to the casual realm where it would be very competitive with Ashnods altar + 2x Myr Retriever + brain freeze, or Crucible + Zuran Orb + Fastbond + stroke/fireball.

[serracollector]

I do not disagree with you, unfortunately magiv has broken down to the 2 card monte meta

Painter/Stone
Vault/Key (tezz)
Oath/Orchard
Workshop + Artifact....

But I wanna give this a try anyways, so this is my first deck, I been playing it on MWS, and so far I have won 3 games, 1 against Fish, and 2 against MUD, I lost to oath, but won 1 game of the match and was 1 turn from winning the next game, but Iona did me in.  I lost 3 as well.  Chalice at 1 is killer....., and its obv not as fast as Storm.dec.

Anyways, my first attempt at a decklist is this:


4 x Top
4 x Etherium Sculptor
3 x Jace Erasure
2 x Trinket mage
4 x Dark confidant
1 x Tinker
1 x Recall
1 x Walk
3 x vamp, myst, seal
1 x Thirst
1 x Brainstorm
1 x Demonic Tutor
3 x Hurkyll's
4 x Force
4 x Mana Drain
1 x relic of prog
7 x SoloMoxen
1 x Mana Crypt
1 x Lotus petal
4 x Sea
4 x Delta
3 x Island
1 x Swamp
1 x Academy

No sideboard, so those games were un sided I tried.  Obv 6 games un sided isn't enough to do any thinking with, but I will continue to try, and post results here.

Any suggestions based on this "pile of crap" so far?  lol

[Delha]

The most important info to tune further would be game details. What cards worked well for you, what didn't? What cards caused problems for you, and what did you find was easy to play around?

[xouman]

If you are going to play infinitely tops, it is not better to play tendrils/ETW/grapeshot instead Jace's Erasure? You won't need to go infinitely in order to win :/

[Bill Copes]

If you are going to play infinitely tops, it is not better to play tendrils/ETW/grapeshot instead Jace's Erasure? You won't need to go infinitely in order to win :/

Or Brainfreeze?  It's even on-color.

[Grand Inquisitor]

Mind you though that Helm of awakening is VERY dangerous in the current Meta (if this wasn't obvious).

I don't think this is really true.  During the Gifts and Slaver era (when Sensei, Sensei was played) there were huge bombs being lobbed around that helm would catalyze and a lot more storm combo.  Right now there's not much storm combo and decks are already running low curves.  This isn't your problem. 

The problem is how is this better than Vault/Key?  Perhaps you can have it both ways, maybe a list that uses inherent synergies and all of the good combos?

8 solomoxcrypt
1 Academy
4 Fetch
4 Island
2 USea
4 Seat of Synod

4 Spell Pierce
4 Force of Will
2 Rebuild

9 ARecall, Walk, MScroll, BStorm, Tinker, Thirst, VTutor, DTutor, YWill

4 Thoughtcast
4 SDT
3 Etherium Sculptor
2 Transmute Artifact
1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key

3 Cunning Wish/Jace Erasure/Brain Freeze