G/W for 2010

[StanleyAugust]

To be honest, I don't really think that pure GW is very viable. Just play Noble Fish or GWB which is superior. Adding black gives you Confidant, Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor and Demonic Consultation which shouldn't be underestimated.

Some of these GW builds seem suboptimal.  If you go pure GW you want to play very aggressively and hence plays like first turn land -> Noble Hierarch, go isn't very optimal.

I for one would love to see a GW build doing well, but I really don't see it unless someone comes up with something new. There's potential though, and I'm quite sure if something is to come up, it would probably be a build with Life from the Loam or Crucible, Null Rod, 4 Horizon Canopy, Ghost Quarter, Kataki, War's Wage and Leonin Arbiter which focuses strongly on mana denial.

Though there are other options too. Something like this might inspire a few people:

Michi Eberhard:

1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Mox Emerald
3 Null Rod
4 Crop Rotation
3 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Tarmogoyf
3 Aven Mindcensor
2 Path to Exile
4 Steppe Lynx

1 Arid Mesa
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Forest
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Plains
4 Savannah
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Strip Mine
2 Treetop Village
3 Wasteland
3 Windswept Heath

Gael Bailly-Maitre (althoug it's GWB):

1 Black Lotus
3 Crucible of Worlds
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
3 Null Rod
4 Dark Confidant
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Diabolic Edict
4 Thoughtseize
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Fastbond
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Vindicate
4 Vinelasher Kudzu
1 Balance
1 Swords to Plowshares
4 Steppe Lynx

2 Bayou
1 Forest
2 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
1 Savannah
2 Scrubland
1 Strip Mine
1 Swamp
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
2 Windswept Heath

[RecklessEmbermage]

Thanks for the last few decklists guys! I particularly liked the BWG aggro-rock concept. In the spirit of sharing decklists, I'll put up the zoo list I played before toying with 8-9 strips. It is basically cat sligh (legacy) with a loam engine. It's explosive enough to race against combo and combo-control in my meta, with an average goldfish of about 4.5 turns. It has some inherent card disadvantage and is therefore relatively soft to counterspells and removal. It is also very light on disruption. On the other hand it has some effective tools against aggro and can slow-roll board control decks, since each creature is relatively threatening on its own and because of clamp. Give some, lose some. I wouldn't really recommend it outside a casual meta, but it's a fast, well-rounded deck if you play in a field with slower combos and a lot of creature interaction:

3 arid mesa
2 wooded foothills
3 bloodstained mire (sub-par, but I'm light on fetches)
2 plateau
2 taiga
1 savannah
2 horizon canopy
4 wasteland
1 strip mine

1 lotus petal
3 skullclamp (exchange this for rancor if you want to include null rod, yet want a trump in aggro matches. I'm more concerned with sweepers than vault-key from control and combo control)

4 wild nacatl
4 steppe lynx
4 qasali pridemage
3 vinelasher kudzu
3 jotun grunt
4 elvish spirit guide

4 lightning bolt
2 path to exile (quite bad and should probably be exchanged with chain lightning, fireblast or price of progress. I lose to a resolved tinker anyway)
2 firestorm
3 crop rotation (Should sometimes be sided out or reduced to one in games 2 and 3 to avoid blow-outs. They are important for the speed of the deck in game one though and give the deck 8 strip effects)
3 life from the loam

The sideboard has been changing a lot and most of the cards are untested. The ones I've used most are the kitchen finks, which are unspectacular, but simply work against aggro. There are no bazaars or shops in my meta, but graveyard decks and artifact-based strategies are still plentiful. Oath comes up now and then:

1 bojuka bog
1 maze of ith (could earn maindeck inclusion)
2 gaddock teeg
2 kitchen finks
3 leonin relic warder (completely untested, but I think it will be quite good)
3 artifact mutation
3 REB/pyroblast

[Stormanimagus]

Sorry, but straight up GW is, IMO, far superior and more consistent to GWB. Noble Fish runs FoW, Daze and Co. and is a totally different archetype so I will not even add it in here for comparison. GW does almost everything that GWB does, and has far superior consistency.

I am just convinced that no one here knows how to design a solid GW list. Either that, or none of the good beats deck designers are coming forth. Let me state some rules that I think apply to GW in general:

1. 3 CMC creatures have got to be considered with great care. Knight of the Reliquary is probably always a wrong choice right now because all it does is beat and there is plenty of creature removal to go around. If anything he'd be a 1-of in a Green Sun's Zenith deck. Even 3 CMC spells of any kind are tough. This is Vintage. Without full Moxen you are asking for trouble with this sort of top-heavy approach.

2. 1-for-1's need to be considered as support cards for a repeated lock. In other words, Nature's Claim + Trygon is solid as a 1-2 punch, but Nature's Claim + Kataki is probably weaker. Nature's Claim might still be a necessary evil, but I'm not so sure (especially if you are on Aether Vial).

3. Synergy Folks!!! Null Rod + Wasteland is great. Be sure not to overdo it though. I think Kataki, + Wasteland + Arbiter is almost as good a mana denial plan as Null Rod Wasteland.

Ok, now to some specific card choices where I was like "wtf?":

4 Crop Rotation by StanleyAugust. I assume this is most often to find Strip Mine. How, pray tell, do you consistently find and resolve a crucible? Under spheres? And not get burned by a counter on Crop Rotation which is a 2-for-1? Terrible.

4 Steppe Lynx by StanleyAugust. I tried this once, and it is not a good strategy because Knight of the Reliquary is not a good strategy. If Knight was then perhaps Steppe Lynx also would be, but you don't want to litter with fetches and make Leonin Arbiter a bad choice, because it is a very very GOOD choice.

3 Xantid Swarm by Twiedel. Seriously? Are you TRYING to be Storm? You want your stuff to resolve, but I'd rather have that 7th card in my opener be business and not risk a hand without a hate bear.

3 Cold-Eyed Selkie by Twiedel. Without a way to protect Selkie he's not nearly as good. Selkie likes decks that run FoW and Daze. I have tried him in a straight GW deck and he's never been good (as a one of with GSZ perhaps though).

GW beats truly is a deck that should play out a bit like MUD, but with the twist that it attacks decks with hate-bears that serve the role of lock-piece and win con. The only true Lock-piece + win con in MUD is Lodestone Golem.
Anyway, instead of being just critical I will try to be helpful and post a list with some explanations:

GW Beats

Land (22):
4 Windswept Heath
4 Savannah
3 Forest
3 Plains
4 Wasteland
3 Ghost Quarter
(Only 3 because you want to be able to cast your spells and too many colorless sources is prohibitive)
1 Strip Mine

Artifacts (8):
4 Aether Vial
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl

Creatures (24):
4 Noble Hierarch
I feel this card is still necessary to keep you ahead on mana an to fix your mana for things like Samurai despite the fact that you run 7 colorless lands.
4 Leonin Arbiter
The meat and potatos of beating Tutor.dec. Allows for Path to Exile to be run over STP. I think that is as important a reason to run this as any because you are really trying to race your opponent and Path allows for that much better than STP
3 Kataki, War’s Wage
Only 3 because of Legendary Status. Against Shops they'll have a hard time removing the first 1 because it will hopefully lock them out of the mana to do so
3 Tarmogoyf
Still the best beater I can think of
4 Qasali Pridemage
Less than 4 always seems wrong to me in a list that can support this guy. Soooo good.
2 Gaddock Teeg
For facing Storm, Dredge, Gush-bond etc. Powerful at what he does. Stops key cards like Gush, Force, Jace Tendrils and Dread Return.
4 Samurai of the Pale Curtain
Amazingly underrated. Read the ruling on this guy. He stops Narcomoeba from even hitting play from the lib. Trust me. He does.

Instants (6):
4 Path To Exile
2 Nature's Claim

SB
4 Leyline Of Sanctity
4 Ravenous Trap
2 Relic Of Progenitus
1 Ghost Quarter (Vs. MUD you want 4)
4 Phyrexian Revoker (Since you don't run Rod this guy fits the bill for stopping an early Metalworker)

I'm not even claiming that this list is perfect at all, but I am claiming that it is far more focused on a single winning strategy. Disrupt mana + beat down.
I am sorry if people are offended by my statements, but it is frustrating to see so many lists that appear to make the same fundamental mistakes. I want to see this archetype take off, but it will not as long as people are simply trying to play "fun" cards and not efficient or realistic cards.

[TheClonedOne]

Sorry, but straight up GW is, IMO, far superior and more consistent to GWB. Noble Fish runs FoW, Daze and Co. and is a totally different archetype so I will not even add it in here for comparison. GW does almost everything that GWB does, and has far superior consistency.

I am just convinced that no one here knows how to design a solid GW list. Either that, or none of the good beats deck designers are coming forth. Let me state some rules that I think apply to GW in general:

[GW beats truly is a deck that should play out a bit like MUD, but with the twist that it attacks decks with hate-bears that serve the role of lock-piece and win con. The only true Lock-piece + win con in MUD is Lodestone Golem.
Anyway, instead of being just critical I will try to be helpful and post a list with some explanations:

4 Samurai of the Pale Curtain
Amazingly underrated. Read the ruling on this guy. He stops Narcomoeba from even hitting play from the lib. Trust me. He does.

I'm not even claiming that this list is perfect at all, but I am claiming that it is far more focused on a single winning strategy. Disrupt mana + beat down.
I am sorry if people are offended by my statements, but it is frustrating to see so many lists that appear to make the same fundamental mistakes. I want to see this archetype take off, but it will not as long as people are simply trying to play "fun" cards and not efficient or realistic cards.

Trust you on the ruling, eh?
Pale curtain DOES NOT or ever will in any legal game stop any card that was not in play to begin with from going to the GY. It's bad to trust people.

[StanleyAugust]

Storm:

If you read my post, you'll notice that I didn't suggest running neither Steppe Lynx nor Crop Rotation. I recomended a quite different build, and was merely posting other people's decklists as an inspiration to different builds because I don't think GW is viable.

[Stormanimagus]

Sorry, but straight up GW is, IMO, far superior and more consistent to GWB. Noble Fish runs FoW, Daze and Co. and is a totally different archetype so I will not even add it in here for comparison. GW does almost everything that GWB does, and has far superior consistency.

I am just convinced that no one here knows how to design a solid GW list. Either that, or none of the good beats deck designers are coming forth. Let me state some rules that I think apply to GW in general:

[GW beats truly is a deck that should play out a bit like MUD, but with the twist that it attacks decks with hate-bears that serve the role of lock-piece and win con. The only true Lock-piece + win con in MUD is Lodestone Golem.
Anyway, instead of being just critical I will try to be helpful and post a list with some explanations:

4 Samurai of the Pale Curtain
Amazingly underrated. Read the ruling on this guy. He stops Narcomoeba from even hitting play from the lib. Trust me. He does.

I'm not even claiming that this list is perfect at all, but I am claiming that it is far more focused on a single winning strategy. Disrupt mana + beat down.
I am sorry if people are offended by my statements, but it is frustrating to see so many lists that appear to make the same fundamental mistakes. I want to see this archetype take off, but it will not as long as people are simply trying to play "fun" cards and not efficient or realistic cards.

Trust you on the ruling, eh?
Pale curtain DOES NOT or ever will in any legal game stop any card that was not in play to begin with from going to the GY. It's bad to trust people.

I have talked to a couple people (judge certified) and they disagree. This is how it was explained to me:

Card type does not care about zone and permanent is now (under new M10 rules that came into effect AFTER the printing of Samurai) considered to be a "card type." A great example is Tarmogoyf. Tarmogoyf reads card types in the graveyard as creature, planeswalker, artifact etc. What the new M11 rules state is that creature, planeswalker, artifact, Land, and enchantment are all sub-types of permanent cards. In essence, they all fall under the umbrella of "permanent." This tag does not care about zone and thus Samurai will RFG then when they are dredged into the yard. Ask any certified judge and see what he/she says.

[LordHomerCat]

 110.1. A permanent is a card or token on the battlefield. A permanent remains on the battlefield indefinitely. A card or token becomes a permanent as it enters the battlefield and it stops being a permanent as it's moved to another zone by an effect or rule.

Seriously, read the rules and stop lying to people when you don't know how the game actually works.  I don't care what your 'judge certified' friend told you, he's a moron.

[TheClonedOne]

Sorry, but straight up GW is, IMO, far superior and more consistent to GWB. Noble Fish runs FoW, Daze and Co. and is a totally different archetype so I will not even add it in here for comparison. GW does almost everything that GWB does, and has far superior consistency.

I am just convinced that no one here knows how to design a solid GW list. Either that, or none of the good beats deck designers are coming forth. Let me state some rules that I think apply to GW in general:

[GW beats truly is a deck that should play out a bit like MUD, but with the twist that it attacks decks with hate-bears that serve the role of lock-piece and win con. The only true Lock-piece + win con in MUD is Lodestone Golem.
Anyway, instead of being just critical I will try to be helpful and post a list with some explanations:

4 Samurai of the Pale Curtain
Amazingly underrated. Read the ruling on this guy. He stops Narcomoeba from even hitting play from the lib. Trust me. He does.

I'm not even claiming that this list is perfect at all, but I am claiming that it is far more focused on a single winning strategy. Disrupt mana + beat down.
I am sorry if people are offended by my statements, but it is frustrating to see so many lists that appear to make the same fundamental mistakes. I want to see this archetype take off, but it will not as long as people are simply trying to play "fun" cards and not efficient or realistic cards.

Trust you on the ruling, eh?
Pale curtain DOES NOT or ever will in any legal game stop any card that was not in play to begin with from going to the GY. It's bad to trust people.

I have talked to a couple people (judge certified) and they disagree. This is how it was explained to me:

Card type does not care about zone and permanent is now (under new M10 rules that came into effect AFTER the printing of Samurai) considered to be a "card type." A great example is Tarmogoyf. Tarmogoyf reads card types in the graveyard as creature, planeswalker, artifact etc. What the new M11 rules state is that creature, planeswalker, artifact, Land, and enchantment are all sub-types of permanent cards. In essence, they all fall under the umbrella of "permanent." This tag does not care about zone and thus Samurai will RFG then when they are dredged into the yard. Ask any certified judge and see what he/she says.

Easier to just read; Whenever a card is placed into the GY from the Battlefield exile it.

[RecklessEmbermage]

Storm: I will put together straight hate-bear lists whenever my meta demands it. Thing is they get owned by straight beat-down decks. So I tend to include red for bigger creatures and burn. The last list I put out is extreme, since it is geared for high speed and takes a considerable risk in running crop rotation. Maybe I could have been clearer about this. If I were to attend a major event, I wouldn't bring zoo.

I feel that the building and testing away from competitive vintage is a definite disadvante, but it doesn't make me a bad deck builder per se. Your last list wants horizon canopy. It is really good with vial. You shouldn't be too afraid of waste effects with that list, so no need for a ton of basics. I would also cut the third ghost quarter from the main and play two in the side. 4 arbiters is not enough to break it against anything playing basics. If your meta is very heavy shop, even 4 could be ok though. The vial isn't really great in that list, since you have so few one-drops. Try playing red for wild nacatl and gorilla shaman. If you want a maindeck tool against dredge, try swapping goyfs for grunts. It is a little slow as a disruptive element, but synergizes very well with the waste effects in choking a dredge deck. It also hits almost as hard as goyf (against shops, for instance, it is probably bigger) has utility against yawgwin and beats opposing goyfs. Could I propose a new one?

20 lands:
4 windswept heath
1 savannah
2 taiga (not good here, but needed for mana stability)
3 plateau
1 forest (most games should go t1 forest, t2 plateau)
2 horizon canopy (why would you ever want to draw a savannah over this?)
4 wasteland
2 ghost quarter
1 strip mine

9 artifacts:
4 aether vial
1 black lotus
1 mox pearl
1 mox emerald
1 mox ruby
1 lotus petal

25 creatures:
4 wild nacatl (better than goyf)
3 gorilla shaman
2 noble hierarch
4 qasali pridemage
4 leonin arbiter
3 jotun grunt (also better than goyf)
3 leonin relic warder (this guy needs to be proven, but I think it's the nuts)
2 gaddock teeg

6 spells:
2 path to exile
4 lightning bolt

Sideboard: Oh, that's tough. What does this loose hard against? Storm combo? Maybe oath still is unfavorable. Stax probably still is. Dredge too.

3 nature's claim
1 leonin relic warder
2 kataki
3 ethersworn canonist
2 ghost quarter
4 ravenous trap

It needs to be tested quite a bit of course. Nacatl needs to hit for three every time, relic warder needs to be proven, etc. The biggest loss from yours is no hierarchs. Maybe 3 of them are needed to have more game against shops. If so, one plateau should be cut for a taiga. I've never got pummeled by MUD, only legacy-style stax.

EDIT: I removed 2 path to exile to include 2 hierarchs. The deck still has 5 maindeck outs to tinkerbot. 6 turn one accelerants should help in the mud match-up.

[Stormanimagus]

Sorry, but straight up GW is, IMO, far superior and more consistent to GWB. Noble Fish runs FoW, Daze and Co. and is a totally different archetype so I will not even add it in here for comparison. GW does almost everything that GWB does, and has far superior consistency.

I am just convinced that no one here knows how to design a solid GW list. Either that, or none of the good beats deck designers are coming forth. Let me state some rules that I think apply to GW in general:

[GW beats truly is a deck that should play out a bit like MUD, but with the twist that it attacks decks with hate-bears that serve the role of lock-piece and win con. The only true Lock-piece + win con in MUD is Lodestone Golem.
Anyway, instead of being just critical I will try to be helpful and post a list with some explanations:

4 Samurai of the Pale Curtain
Amazingly underrated. Read the ruling on this guy. He stops Narcomoeba from even hitting play from the lib. Trust me. He does.

I'm not even claiming that this list is perfect at all, but I am claiming that it is far more focused on a single winning strategy. Disrupt mana + beat down.
I am sorry if people are offended by my statements, but it is frustrating to see so many lists that appear to make the same fundamental mistakes. I want to see this archetype take off, but it will not as long as people are simply trying to play "fun" cards and not efficient or realistic cards.

Trust you on the ruling, eh?
Pale curtain DOES NOT or ever will in any legal game stop any card that was not in play to begin with from going to the GY. It's bad to trust people.

I have talked to a couple people (judge certified) and they disagree. This is how it was explained to me:

Card type does not care about zone and permanent is now (under new M10 rules that came into effect AFTER the printing of Samurai) considered to be a "card type." A great example is Tarmogoyf. Tarmogoyf reads card types in the graveyard as creature, planeswalker, artifact etc. What the new M11 rules state is that creature, planeswalker, artifact, Land, and enchantment are all sub-types of permanent cards. In essence, they all fall under the umbrella of "permanent." This tag does not care about zone and thus Samurai will RFG then when they are dredged into the yard. Ask any certified judge and see what he/she says.

Easier to just read; Whenever a card is placed into the GY from the Battlefield exile it.

Except that's not what it reads. Oracle text on Samurai of the Pale Curtain is:

Bushido 1 (When this blocks or becomes blocked, it gets +1/+1 until end of turn.)
If a permanent would be put into a graveyard, exile it instead.

There is no "from the battlefield" anywhere in there. If they were updating this to normal post M11 lingo then they would have added that to the oracle but they didn't. As to rule 101.1 you are correct Lord Homer Cat. Let me point you though to rule 110.4:

110.4a The term “permanent card” is used to refer to a card that could be put onto the battlefield. Specifically, it means an artifact, creature, enchantment, land, or planeswalker card.

I am not 100% sure, but I think that someone told me that, in the case of Samurai, they had not yet made the distinction of permanent being "on the battlefield" but in play. I believe the intention, and current ruling, of the card was to have it read "permanent card." Why? Because they never bothered to add the "From the Battlefield" clause to the oracle text at all.

[Stormanimagus]

Storm: I will put together straight hate-bear lists whenever my meta demands it. Thing is they get owned by straight beat-down decks. So I tend to include red for bigger creatures and burn. The last list I put out is extreme, since it is geared for high speed and takes a considerable risk in running crop rotation. Maybe I could have been clearer about this. If I were to attend a major event, I wouldn't bring zoo.

I feel that the building and testing away from competitive vintage is a definite disadvante, but it doesn't make me a bad deck builder per se. Your last list wants horizon canopy. It is really good with vial. You shouldn't be too afraid of waste effects with that list, so no need for a ton of basics. I would also cut the third ghost quarter from the main and play two in the side. 4 arbiters is not enough to break it against anything playing basics. If your meta is very heavy shop, even 4 could be ok though. The vial isn't really great in that list, since you have so few one-drops. Try playing red for wild nacatl and gorilla shaman. If you want a maindeck tool against dredge, try swapping goyfs for grunts. It is a little slow as a disruptive element, but synergizes very well with the waste effects in choking a dredge deck. It also hits almost as hard as goyf (against shops, for instance, it is probably bigger) has utility against yawgwin and beats opposing goyfs. Could I propose a new one?

20 lands:
4 windswept heath
1 savannah
2 taiga (not good here, but needed for mana stability)
3 plateau
1 forest (most games should go t1 forest, t2 plateau)
2 horizon canopy (why would you ever want to draw a savannah over this?)
4 wasteland
2 ghost quarter
1 strip mine

9 artifacts:
4 aether vial
1 black lotus
1 mox pearl
1 mox emerald
1 mox ruby
1 lotus petal

25 creatures:
4 wild nacatl (better than goyf)
3 gorilla shaman
2 noble hierarch
4 qasali pridemage
4 leonin arbiter
3 jotun grunt (also better than goyf)
3 leonin relic warder (this guy needs to be proven, but I think it's the nuts)
2 gaddock teeg

6 spells:
2 path to exile
4 lightning bolt

Sideboard: Oh, that's tough. What does this loose hard against? Storm combo? Maybe oath still is unfavorable. Stax probably still is. Dredge too.

3 nature's claim
1 leonin relic warder
2 kataki
3 ethersworn canonist
2 ghost quarter
4 ravenous trap

It needs to be tested quite a bit of course. Nacatl needs to hit for three every time, relic warder needs to be proven, etc. The biggest loss from yours is no hierarchs. Maybe 3 of them are needed to have more game against shops. If so, one plateau should be cut for a taiga. I've never got pummeled by MUD, only legacy-style stax.

EDIT: I removed 2 path to exile to include 2 hierarchs. The deck still has 5 maindeck outs to tinkerbot. 6 turn one accelerants should help in the mud match-up.

You make a good point. I just would never bother to attend a Vintage event unless I knew there would be a solid % of the players playing tier 1 decks at a high level. In a competitive meta like that (Long Island, Philly, Waterbury) you should never be facing the straight up beat-down mirror more than once (if that) during the whole tournament, and that's where you rely on a solid number of STP's or Paths + Goyf. Even if I faced beat-down, I'm not sure that I'd go for something like Knight over Goyf. 3 CMC is just much slower when you play the aggressive mana base that every Vintage deck should be running, even GW.

-Storm

[RecklessEmbermage]

Even if I faced beat-down, I'm not sure that I'd go for something like Knight over Goyf. 3 CMC is just much slower when you play the aggressive mana base that every Vintage deck should be running, even GW.

No knights in the proposed deck. I'm glad we are on the same page when it comes to adjusting to the metagame.

[Twiedel]

3 Xantid Swarm by Twiedel. Seriously? Are you TRYING to be Storm? You want your stuff to resolve, but I'd rather have that 7th card in my opener be business and not risk a hand without a hate bear.

3 Cold-Eyed Selkie by Twiedel. Without a way to protect Selkie he's not nearly as good. Selkie likes decks that run FoW and Daze. I have tried him in a straight GW deck and he's never been good (as a one of with GSZ perhaps though).

GW beats truly is a deck that should play out a bit like MUD, but with the twist that it attacks decks with hate-bears that serve the role of lock-piece and win con. The only true Lock-piece + win con in MUD is Lodestone Golem.

Hey Storm,
I'm not surprised you are picking at these specific card choices, they didn't seem very strong to me at first too, but I can only suggest you test with them.

The swarms are some very rare 1-drops and still must-counters for control... and I barely can see your point with a hand without hate... you play JUST hate and mana. Never got stuck on these swarms, they were absolutely amazing (I play in a field where nearly 60% of the decks are controllig blue decks, maybe your metagame is different?)

The Selkies are my way to get around Tarmogoyf. I just don't like him. I really never want to drop that (mostly 3/4) vanilla, it was just never efficient enough for me as a win condition. I found it super-valueable against my metagame, where everyone tries to build up mana / tutors for things like massacre or nature's ruin. Drawing cards in the process seems nice... but anyway, see these guys as my replacement to tarmogoyf, which isn't doing anything in most games. at least that's how I fell about him.

I definately agree with you on 3 CMC drops, but I think 3 is not too much. I think you underestimate the knight vs shops, which is the second biggest portion of my metagame (and possibly every metagame out there right now). Sometimes you really struggle to kill them when they have a lodestone or karn, and you have no removal. having a giant blocker/attacker is really nice then - and i just see him as this. My supplement to goyf in this Matchup as well, but he is bigger, and that is what matters against shops for me.

Also, I can only underline what you said about the playstyle of the deck, it IS like MUD indeed, but with a much higher win-condition / lock pieces rate, as most cards are both.

Null Rod is an absolute MUST for me in the deck... the synergy with wastes and artifact disruption via claim and pridemages is just too often game winning. I like aether vial, but I'd rather pay for my spells than getting blown out by artifact fastmana undoing all my hard wasteland-work. Of course that is influencing my manabase quite heavily, as I had to cut the basics which most of you guys can play because vial fixes for you.

And really get this samurai thing through... although I always played it as "from play" it would be just nuts if it hit from other places.

regards, Twiedel

[TheClonedOne]

Sorry, but straight up GW is, IMO, far superior and more consistent to GWB. Noble Fish runs FoW, Daze and Co. and is a totally different archetype so I will not even add it in here for comparison. GW does almost everything that GWB does, and has far superior consistency.

I am just convinced that no one here knows how to design a solid GW list. Either that, or none of the good beats deck designers are coming forth. Let me state some rules that I think apply to GW in general:

[GW beats truly is a deck that should play out a bit like MUD, but with the twist that it attacks decks with hate-bears that serve the role of lock-piece and win con. The only true Lock-piece + win con in MUD is Lodestone Golem.
Anyway, instead of being just critical I will try to be helpful and post a list with some explanations:

4 Samurai of the Pale Curtain
Amazingly underrated. Read the ruling on this guy. He stops Narcomoeba from even hitting play from the lib. Trust me. He does.

I'm not even claiming that this list is perfect at all, but I am claiming that it is far more focused on a single winning strategy. Disrupt mana + beat down.
I am sorry if people are offended by my statements, but it is frustrating to see so many lists that appear to make the same fundamental mistakes. I want to see this archetype take off, but it will not as long as people are simply trying to play "fun" cards and not efficient or realistic cards.

Trust you on the ruling, eh?
Pale curtain DOES NOT or ever will in any legal game stop any card that was not in play to begin with from going to the GY. It's bad to trust people.

I have talked to a couple people (judge certified) and they disagree. This is how it was explained to me:

Card type does not care about zone and permanent is now (under new M10 rules that came into effect AFTER the printing of Samurai) considered to be a "card type." A great example is Tarmogoyf. Tarmogoyf reads card types in the graveyard as creature, planeswalker, artifact etc. What the new M11 rules state is that creature, planeswalker, artifact, Land, and enchantment are all sub-types of permanent cards. In essence, they all fall under the umbrella of "permanent." This tag does not care about zone and thus Samurai will RFG then when they are dredged into the yard. Ask any certified judge and see what he/she says.

Easier to just read; Whenever a card is placed into the GY from the Battlefield exile it.

Except that's not what it reads. Oracle text on Samurai of the Pale Curtain is:

Bushido 1 (When this blocks or becomes blocked, it gets +1/+1 until end of turn.)
If a permanent would be put into a graveyard, exile it instead.

There is no "from the battlefield" anywhere in there. If they were updating this to normal post M11 lingo then they would have added that to the oracle but they didn't. As to rule 101.1 you are correct Lord Homer Cat. Let me point you though to rule 110.4:

110.4a The term “permanent card” is used to refer to a card that could be put onto the battlefield. Specifically, it means an artifact, creature, enchantment, land, or planeswalker card.

I am not 100% sure, but I think that someone told me that, in the case of Samurai, they had not yet made the distinction of permanent being "on the battlefield" but in play. I believe the intention, and current ruling, of the card was to have it read "permanent card." Why? Because they never bothered to add the "From the Battlefield" clause to the oracle text at all.

Please stop. Just stop.
I am 100% sure.
Pale curtain does not stop Moebas from entering the battlefield through the library. It also does not stop Thoughtseize from binning your Creatures, Artifacts, enchantments or Walkers.

[Rubinzoo]

So I was testing with rich shay the other day with the following list:
5 Moxen
1 Pedal
1 Lotus
4 Savannah
3 Temple Garden
4 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Strip Mine
2 Wasteland
1 Flagstones of Trokair
3 ESG
4 Null Rod
1 Trinisphere
4 Relic Warder
3 Teeg
3 Kataki
4 Arbiter
3 Aven Mindcensor
2 Aura of Silence
3 Ethersworn Cannonist
2 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Caustic Wasps
3 Path

SB:
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Nature's Claim
1 Swords
4 Goyf
3 Serenity
This deck is a bit different, but I really think that full set of moxen as well as esg give you more relevant turn one plays then aether vial or noble hierarch.  After we were battling, rich told me that he hated that I had a turn one play, and he was always hoping I didn't so he could set things up and would have a much better shot at not getting locked out of the game.  Some card choices that are different from most of your guys' lists.  (The cards i dont talk about are hopefully self explanitory.)

Cannonist-people seem to leave him out of their GW decks, or not even mention him at all.  He will not beat your opponent, but he will severely slow your opponent down.  Unfortunately he gets hit by rebuild and hurks so does not completely lock opponents out however the extra time you get allows you to draw more and more hate off the top of your deck.

Null Rod-very heavy mana denial, it's certainly awkward but still has a very powerful effect that can win games.  also very synergistic with every card in your deck.  Denys workshop  mana to let them cast their hellkites/duplicants/trikes

Trinisphere-3 is alot less mana in this deck then most gw decks, this card is just awesome and slows your opponent down like cannonist but also locks them out of the game.  Once you are at 3 it doesnt hurt you much because you usually only cast one spell a turn.

Knight- there seems to be alot of talk over knight or goyf.  I am not saying knight is correct, but I will always be playing knight personally maindeck and here is why.  This g/w deck is more of a prison deck then an aggro deck.  The added 3-8ish damage you get out of playing a goyf a turn or two turns earlier is not relevant.  If you have a goyf in your hand, you willl almost always cast it after unloading all of your "hate" bears.  Pretty much any card in the deck will get cast before a tarmogoyf will.  This means that by the time you would even be willing to cast goyf, you might even have the extra mana already.  As a prison type deck, Knight supplies utility where goyf does not.  Goyf will always be a vanilla beater, while knight can be used to turn your extra lands into wastelands or horizon canopy to draw extra cards.  Generally knight is also just bigger, and with time can be a huge threat that can even eat lodestones where goyf never can.  For those of you saying 3 mana is too much mana, are you that excited to run out your 3/4 or maybe even 4/5 goyf?  No. you are excited about adding a Leonin arbiter, teeg, or kataki to your lock.  So not only is knight bigger, and has utlity, people also forget that he can generate mana.  Though it seems silly, cards like kataki and null rod can actually make you with less then 3 mana later on in a game where you already had the 3 to cast knight.  Sometimes even knight can help you out with sphere effects. because knight you were already pumping knight, you might as well use him to fight spheres or just cast multiple spells in one turn.  That is why knight is better in G/w, if you want to fight me, then feel free to post about it.

Aura of Silence-powerful effect, in this deck is your quasali pridemage on board disenchant.  Mana denial against workshop. insane against storm decks. synergistic.

Caustic Wasps-I mean.. we dont have blue so this guy is pretty much the same as trygon against shop, also sort of replaces pridemage

relic warder-to be honest i love quasali, but blightsteel collosus MUST be answered because decks that you lock out of other combos will look to tinker you.  Is also better then pridmage against shop alot of times because you get the body and the removal and costs one less.

serenity-this card is very good against shop, it is time walk plus kill your side.... I will have it in my sideboard always.

So there is the list I would play at my next tournament, however here is a deck for  you guys (needs some work and havnt tested alot unlike the deck above) that is a completely different approach to g/w.  It also doesnt have null rod... here is hte list, please comment because I think we can make it work:

Remember, I didnt say this deck was good or anything, just suggesting it for brainstorming, please refer to above list for competetive decklist (dont want to get flamed or anything)
4 Moxes (no jet)
1 Lotus
1 Pedal
3 Ancient Tomb
4 Savannah
4 Horizon Canopy
2 Temple Garden
4 ESG
4 Hierach (or maybe vial)
3 Manamorphose
1 Trinisphere
3 Leonin Arbiter
3 Mindcensor
3 Kataki (your pseudo null rods)
3 Caustic Wasps
2 Teeg
4 Aura of silence
4 relic warder(or pridmage)
3 Path
1 Timewalk
1 Ancenstral recall
2 skull clamp
1 sword of feast and famine
this might be 61? sorry...
sideboard... undetermined irel for now.

Anyway, this deck is a much more aggressive version of GW, also I think this version is pretty good at fighting shop decks.  Pretty much we have ancient tomb and hierarchs to power out aura of silence, wasps or mindcensor or sphere tomb also makes skullclamp engine faster or our canopy engine faster... MANAMORPHOSE IS A BAD CARD... true... but I think turn one aura of silence is pretty good against any deck.  Manamorphose, along with hierarch and mox saph/lotus/pedal allow us to not even that greedily splash acall and ancestral which seems good.  No null rod means skull clamp!!!! so skull slamp can be used to kill hierarchs late game when they are not needed. waspss when they are done with their job, or extra katakis, or on quasalis before they pop... its a pretty good engine.  Sword might be a bit too cute, but i think its worth testing instead of clamp number 3.  To be honest, with tombs hierahcs esgs and mana artifacts a t2 or 3 equip is not unreasonable where it can generate some mana and make a deck discard which can be pretty good after a few turns... also it lets you swing through anything in the noble fish deck. 

Tell me what you think of the competitive deck or the work in progress... thanks

[nineisnoone]

@Rubinzoo.  While I am not fond of ESG as a strategy, I do agree that it is superior than Vial or Heirarch for a GW strategy.  You have no counters so Heirarch feels slow and generally I prefer Vial when there are relevant 1 drops to play.

Cannonist - I kind of question this card.  Good in general, but with MUD being so strong it almost feels redundant, and the deck being generally permanent loaded, I can't see the impact being very high.  Slowing them down and disrupting them are two entirely different things, and you could effectively do the same thing with 'Goyf (i.e. they both effect the clock rather than disrupt) and have a generally more useful card.

Knight - 3 mana and summoning sickness for a Strip Mine is asking a lot.  That said 2 sounds like a good number if it's the right card.  I am just not sure it is.  I like 'Goyf (well, hypothetically at least) because by the time you are interested in dropping non-disrupting creatures, he can step in and close the game.  Knight on the other hand seems too slow to want early for disruption, and I'm not sure it provides that much closing strength.  

Relic Warder - Nice.  You would need mana open to activate Pridemage anyways.  I definitely like him more against Shops.  However, wouldn't Repeal and bounce be a huge threat?  Obviously by default he works better against BSC, but I'm having difficulty evaluating its effectiveness since it can be bounced and effectively neutered.

Wasps - Nothing much to say there.  It'll do what you need.

As far as the second deck goes, I'm a little confused on the mana.  You are running a lot of mana, but your mana needs aren't that much higher (if higher at all) than your previous deck.  You have 30 cards dedicated to mana in one fashion or another, and I don't see why you need that much.  If you want to splash blue why don't you just run a 3 color mana base?  Or City of Brass?

[Rubinzoo]

All great points nineisnoone.  I hope more people will agree with esgs.

Cannonist. When you play out this deck, one of  the things that makes him really good is that he costs 1W.  It may seem very basic, and almost silly for a vintage deck to have mana issues like that but he and arbiter are very powerful because of the ease of casting them on turn one, or multiples on turn 2.  At the same time these are your two worst cards against shop unfortunately but this alot of G/w ooptions are only good against one of the two prime matchups (obv blue combo and shop) that being said the alternatives like goyf for example are also in a simalar boat, where I just chose cannonist.  It's a meta choice and a preference choice, if you want a better shop matchup and think you will face more shop decks then by all means goyfs go in main and then cannonist in sideboard.  I honestly think that this card helps your other matchups more then something like goyf would help your shop matchup, I would probably even play quasali over goyf because at least it spreads over multiple matchups.

Knight-If I represented him as a 3 mana summoning sickness strip mine then I definitely didn't represent him for what he is.  If you look at my main, besides the wasps or mana denial plan, there are no real beater threats that can close the game against shop decks.  He is kind of needed as being the only fatty in the deck against shop decks and opposing goyfs (I played three until just recently).  All the things I said about Knight before are true and I think saying that he doesn't have closing strength is wrong.  think about it this way, when you cast your beaters after your disruption, goyf against shop is going to be a 2/3 3/4 or 4/5.  Knight worst case will be a 2/2, usually will be a 3/3 because either  you wasted them, they wasted you, you cracked a canopy or the fetcland.  If they have no creatures at all, you are probably winning and there is nothing wrong with bashing with your 2/2 or 3/3 knight and other shitty guys.  If they have a pretty good board position with karn or more creatures, your goyf/knight has to sit back.  Every turn knight gets +2+2 or +1/+1, while doing so is doing one of three things, if you need the lands you can search other forests and add mana, if you need cards you can get canopys and draw cards, if you need to deny mana you can get wastelands and deny mana.  This is a very slow card, but you can start attacking with him if needed soon, or you can use him, the versatility if just good.  As i said before, not many cards are good against both shop and blue decks, but knight is reasonable against both making him in my opinion better then goyf, and i already think he is better then goyf against at least shop.  Also if you didnt know, a duplcanted goyf is however big the goyf was, a duplicanted knight is always a 2/2.

Relic w-The drawback of bounce is definately huge, but there are several reasons why it is not so bad.  First of all if they were able to tinker a bsc, then your anti search cards leonin arbiter/mindcensor were probably not around.  That being said, the rest of your deck helps fight this kind of thing.  Gaddok teeg stops repeal, as well as force.  If you have teeg or  cannonist, you can easily path it after a repeal of relic warder.  Lastly, your deck is full of 2/2s.  This means we wont die from poison the turn after because we can chump.  We can always recast it next turn.  Relic warder eats bsc with a drawback, and is also unbelievable in shop matchups so you cant not include him and you cant really complain imo.

As for the second deck, ya I didnt realize it was that much mana, though manamorphose suits a sort of different role.  As for 3 color manabase, you cant really support it because you lose leonin arbiter if you lose fetchlands.  You could run city i guess instead of canopy and maybe then fit in trygons but im still not sure 4 more blue sources would be that consistent.  Thank you very much for the input.

[nineisnoone]

I see where you are going with Knight now.  I'm not very familiar with running the card, but I see how it fits in.  Only being a 2/2 when removed by Duplicant slipped my mind as well.  I'll have to try out the card some more.

[serracollector]

Lands
4  Wasteland
1  High Market
4  Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
2  Plains
1  Forest
4  Savannah
1  Strip Mine

Creatures
2  Preacher
4  Leonin Relic-Warder
3  Gaddock Teeg
4 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
4  Phyrexian Revoker
4  Leonin Arbiter
4  Noble Hierarch

Spells
3  Aura of Silence
3  Swords to Plowshares
4  AEther Vial
3 [V09] Skullclamp
1  Mox Pearl
1  Lotus Petal
1  Black Lotus
1  Mox Emerald

Sideboard
SB: 2  Preacher
SB: 4  True Believer
SB: 1  Gaddock Teeg
SB: 4 [JGC] Orim's Chant
SB: 2 [GTW] Path to Exile
SB: 2  Nature's Claim

I been reading this thread a lot lately, and with the addition of phyrexian revoker and leonin relic-warder, I think I have built a descent "bear prison" if you will.

Noble Hierach/Pridemage - pretty sure these belong in any gw build.

Leonin Arbiter - with so many gush decks with fetches and mass tutors, not to mention about anything else with blue and black, this guy has been amazing.

Phyrexian Revoker - AMAZING. Any body testing this guy should tell you this.  Also, with Aether Vial, its instant, for example, they cast Mana Vault, in response Revoker naming mana vault etc.  He is completely worth it just to name moxen.  Name another 2/1 colorless that reads "come into play destroy a land".

Leonin Relic-Warder - This card went from a 2 of to a 3 of to a Must 4 of.  No reason not to.  Its so good.  Just like revoker at the worsts its a 2/2 LD on a moxen.

Gaddock Teeg - I only run 3 main due to his legendary status, and 1 sided for Gush and belcher and storm in general.

Preacher - I've read over and over about how crucial the 3 spot is because it has to be something useful early and late game, has a board changing ability, and can hopefully either win the game or create card advantage.  IMO, and in my testing this card has done me better than Knight of the Reliquary, or Selkie, or anything else I can think of atm.  This card helps vs almost any deck.  Something with cobras and Confidants, give me one.  Oath/Tinker target (sans Inkwell ofc, but I am seeing less and less of him), sure give me one.   Anything in MUD I would be happy with, even metalworker.  Not only can preacher help swing the board position in your favor, he can also steal something and clamp it for 2 cards.  A long long time ago, people played preacher and diamond valley as a combo to gain life and get rid of critters.  Well in todays meta, preacher is even more worthy, since there are no creatures used in vintage that are "bad", and with the use of skullclamp becomes a drawing engine for the majority of them, confidant, cobra, welder,  metalworker (2 clamps or some other means of death but still) selkie, hierarch, quasali, mox monkey etc. etc.  I haven't completely give up the diamond valley combo as I added 1 High Market, which not only helps preacher, but clamp as well, and is good vs Oath, and , haha, may make the difference in a tendrils match.  Sorry for the lengthy write up, but I beleived I would need to explain myself on the use of this card in todays meta.

Aether Vial - this card not only gets your cards out under spheres and Counters, but also lets you do amazing timing tricks with relic-warder, arbiter, and revoker, would rather have Vial and 4 revoker over Null Rod ANY day.

Skullclamp - every deck needs a draw engine, not to mention its synergy with heirarch, useless revokers, quasali's, and anything you happen to borrow with preacher.  Clamp has saved me so many games where  i had to go into "clamp" mode and clamp everything til I found a swords or disenchant efx.

Swords - 3 is good for me for right now, with 2 path in the side to help with MUD.

Aura of Silence - Once again the 3 CC range.  Why this card?  1 it adds to the 8 leonin, 4 quasali, 4 revoker, 4 wastes, and 1 strip, as mana denial.  Cast this on turn 1-2 with hierach/ moxen is a bane in a lot of decks.  I try to think of it as a "white sphere" with the neat side effect of disenchant.  A very nice side effect.  At first I had 3 preacher, and 2 Aura, after much testing I find 3 aura to be quite nice.

The sideboard is built to beat MUD, Oath, and Storm/Gush.  I know I have nothing vs dredge, except orims chant (time walks count!) and teeg, if I knew for certain how Samurai of the Pale curtain worked, then he would become part of the Sideboard.  But I am not sure if he stops dredge/Oath or not.  If he does he might make it maindeck, since it would stop dredge, Oath (to a degree, cant titan/vault, or yawg win into vault etc), and Crucible Locks.

Anyways, this deck has been doing me very well for a while now, I will keep testing, but I suggest you guys give it a try, and let me know what you think.

[beder]

@Serracollector

I totally agree with most of your conclusion and your build is pretty close from what I suggested some time ago.
- Leonin Relic-Warder is good, really good. Different from quasali but just excellent. Even better than quasali in many situations.
- Phyrexian Revoker is good, really good. It is almost never dead and totally fit this deck gameplan.
- Aether Vial is excellent with those creatures.

Neverthless, with those 4 leonin, 4 phyrexian and 4 quasali, I think that the aura of silence are not really necessary.
I would replace them with something that interacts sooner with opponent and prevent them from going crazy in mid game, like chalice of the void for instance. Let's keep in mind that with aether vial, chalice can even be played at 2 in mid game. That can be a really devastating play.

[Tobi]

Chalice has some bad synergy with Gaddock Teeg, not sure if it's worth it.

What about some (3) Mindscensors in addition to the 4 Arbiter and 3-4 Ghost Quarter? I also think the Aura of Silence is not that good and not needed with 4 Qasali and Relic Warder. Mindscensors give you some more surprise potential and evasion which may be important in creature matchups.
Really like Preacher! 

[kalisia]

Storm speaks wisdom.  Against Shop decks, aggro decks have to look for card advantage.  That means cards like Mox Monkey, Ancient Drudge, Ingot Chewer, Hull Breech, Artifact Mutation, Rack and Ruin, Shattering Spree, Kataki, Crucible of Worlds, and Moon Effects.  Unfortunately, almost none of those fit into a G/W build.  That means right now, it's poorly positioned in the meta. 

@Troy: Agree with all the cards you mentioned. But if you look his sideboard, you can find Serenity. If Serenity is not a HUGE "card advantage" card against MUD/Stax, I don't know what it is. Except if Helkite is already in play, every MUD/Stax deck dies on Serenity.

[serracollector]

@tobi and beder:  Aura of Silence has yet to let me down, yes I could play Mindcensor, but at 3 mana, well, I never put my vials at 3 counters, 2 at most always, so Mindcensor and Aura are both going to be hard cast.  The difference is is that Mindcensor is normally a 1 time "try to stop your tutor".  Aura is a sphere affect, which "locks" the game after a Revoker/Warder/Wasteland has already shut off some mana. It can also work as a seal and just sit there til you need to remove something.  Aura and Quasali in play with 1 untapped land ensures no time vault, yawgmoth's will or not.  I've tried Mindcensor again and again, and even with an Arbiter in play, it just hasn't worked as well as I would want.  And thanks you guys for agreeing with my preacher tech.  It has won me many a game beleive it or not.  I was playing MUD, I went first turn Noble, they went first turn Trini, I went 2nd turn land, preacher, and guess wat, Lodestones and Precursor Golems lose alot of steam when you steal 1 or more.  Clamping one golem and blocking another is pretty sweet too.  Mind ofc I know this is only good versus "control" MUD like meandeck MUD, since aggro has Trike/Steelkite, but hopefully that's wat the 3 aura, 4 warder, 4 qasali, and 4 revoker are for.  They just need to make a Leonin that removes a creature from the game (even temp like relic-warder) and I can complete my 12 leonin deck (vs 13 sphere?) and drop swords altogether lol.

Also, ghost quarter is neat, but that's, I already run 5 strip and 1 high market, which leaves me with 8 duals, 2 basics, and 2 moxes for mana, and even then getting WW for preacher, aura, or warder, or g/w for qasali/teeg can be hard to do, so adding more colorless mana sources, even despite them being more "mana denial", would actually impeded the decks processes more than help it.  Between paying 2 for arbiters, and me removing moxen with Warder/Revoker, Aura of Silence, and the 5 strips, I already have plenty to slow them down enough to have 2-4 bears in play, for the beat down.

Also chalice of the void, this, just like Null Rod, is something that could become anti synergistic.  As stated before it doesn't work with TEEG, which against storm I would rather 4 of him than 4 chalice since I have such a low mana base, and chalice is only good (haha) if your opponent has a hand full of jewels, usualy one for oneing moxen with warder/revoker is plenty, and provides beats.

[Tobi]

I just realized that your landcount/manabase is really low. Of course, Ghost Quarters wouldn't go into one of those slots, save High Market.
I also wonder if those 3 basic lands and the one-ofs Karakas and High Market are worth it without a way to consistently find them (Knight of the Reliquary for example), and without Fetchlands. Would probably make more sense to replace Karakas and 3 Basics with 4 Temple Garden.
High Market is neat with Preacher, but I think it is too narrow without it.

Here is what I am currently testing.

Lands
4  Wasteland
3  Horizon Canopy
1  Plains
1  Forest
4  Savannah
1  Strip Mine
3 Ghost Quarter
4 Windswept Heath

Creatures
3 Leonin Relic-Warder
3 Gaddock Teeg
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Aven Mindscensor

Spells
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 AEther Vial
3 Skullclamp
1 Mox Pearl
1 Lotus Petal
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald

Sideboard
SB: 4 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 True Believer
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 Path to Exile
SB: 3 Nature's Claim


Not fully sold on the Ghost Quarter/Mindscensor tech, but have not tested enough with it. I'd also love to include Preacher, but cannot find room.
Agree that Aura of Silence has good uses and is a strong card. Maybe it's better than Mindscensor, but depends on the matchup. Metagame call I'd say.

[beder]

Chalice has some bad synergy with Gaddock Teeg, not sure if it's worth it.

What about some (3) Mindscensors in addition to the 4 Arbiter and 3-4 Ghost Quarter? I also think the Aura of Silence is not that good and not needed with 4 Qasali and Relic Warder. Mindscensors give you some more surprise potential and evasion which may be important in creature matchups.
Really like Preacher! 

Oups, right about the anti synergy with Gaddock. I always forgot about the other part of the sentence, meaning the "X" thing.

[madmanmike25]

Spot on about the Relic-Warders.  They have been awesome in testing, even if just to eat up a mox.  I wouldn't play with less than 4.

Avens are great with Exalted to do 3-4 dmg if attacking on the ground is not a possibility.  Perfect for killing opponents attacking Dark Confidants via flash.  Good also to respond to fetches and Tinker/Tutors.  I always find a way to squeeze 2+ into my decks.

Preacher looks like fun in the 3cc slot.  If only Witch Hunter could see Vintage play as well!  Mangara of Corondor is another fun card.

In my list I run 3 Kataki, and get a lot of  "gg" vs. Shop decks.  I'm surprised no one else is running him.

[serracollector]

@Tobi:  remember I also play skullclamp in mine, which means drawing into the 1 of's such as Karakas and High Market, its not umcommon.  Not to mention High Market doesn't just help you sac preacher creatures, it helps you sac useless arbiters and warders to clamp  to find what you need.  Once you get 2 clamps in play, and 2 mana to use them, then high market is "only" for preacher.  Mangara is good, but only if you have karakas in play, and the only thing it can remove that any of my other cards can't is planeswalkers, which is what revokers are for.

[Stormanimagus]

Spot on about the Relic-Warders.  They have been awesome in testing, even if just to eat up a mox.  I wouldn't play with less than 4.

Avens are great with Exalted to do 3-4 dmg if attacking on the ground is not a possibility.  Perfect for killing opponents attacking Dark Confidants via flash.  Good also to respond to fetches and Tinker/Tutors.  I always find a way to squeeze 2+ into my decks.

Preacher looks like fun in the 3cc slot.  If only Witch Hunter could see Vintage play as well!  Mangara of Corondor is another fun card.

In my list I run 3 Kataki, and get a lot of  "gg" vs. Shop decks.  I'm surprised no one else is running him.

I would definitely not be leaving home without 3-4 Kataki either. Honestly, I see Relic-Warder as a card that helps G/W move to a more solid WW archetype. Since the Warder allows for spot removal and, at times, is better than Pridemage (actually often) then I think the need for a Green splash is gone. There are plenty of amazing tools in White alone to make a mana-denial deck that is also pretty darn quick. How you say? Without Tarmogoyf? Here's a list I've been testing lately on Cockatrice to some decent success.

Land (21)
12 Plains
4 Wasteland
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Strip Mine

Artifacts (12):
4 Aether Vial (1)
1 Black Lotus (0)
1 Lotus Petal (0)
1 Mox Pearl (0)
2 Umezawa’s Jitte (2)
3 Sword Of Fire And Ice (3)

Creatures (23):
4 Student Of Warfare (W)
4 Leonin Arbiter (1W)
3 Kataki, War’s Wage (1W)
4 Leonin Relic-Warder (WW)
4 True Believer (WW)
4 Mirran Crusader (1WW)

Instants (4):
4 Path To Exile (W)

Sideboard
4 Leyline Of Sanctity (2WW)
4 Phyrexian Revoker (2)
4 Relic Of Progenitus (1)
3 Ravenous Trap (2BB)

The main issue this deck has is with TV/Key and Gush-Bond decks. It can beat decks not sporting TV/Key a bit better due to 4 White Leyline and 4 True Believer post SB, but it can still be difficult. Ideally Phyrexian Revoker is there to help with TV/Key Jace decks, but I'm not sure that that is nearly enough. This deck is narrow and attacks other decks in a narrow way. Certainly an interesting thought experiment for something to bring to a tourney.

-Storm

[serracollector]

@Storm:  You know, recently I been thinking the same thing myself, except instead of mono white, I think black is the color to go with.  Green provides:

Qasali, Teeg, and Heirarch, and goyf if you think he fits the bill (i dont since it makes not change to the board other than being fat).

If I added black I could add 4 confidant in replace of heriarch, tidehollow sculler in place of qasali, and (just a thought here) but 3 stillmoon cavalier in place of teeg. 

Confidant and Sculler I am sure you can see why, easy CA, and with vial, sculler during draw step is always nice, especially after a topdeck tutor, but some explanations on Stillmoon:

1) for 1 it can fly, meaning it can block anything on the ground or not, or that it can easily evade those ftw.
2) It can gain first strike, and pump, which means for 3 mana it can kill Golems/Jugs
3) it is pro white and pro black meaning it can block Iona, Sphinx, and every creature other than Goyf/Heirarch/Selkie, without worry of dieing, not to mention swords can't touch it.

But anyways, this was just a thought, and sorry about posting it in the G/W build, its just the thought came to Mind, because honestly with Warder, qasali is becoming less and less useful to me, and all I ever really want green for is to get an easy clamp out of Heirarch, or for Teeg, which is mainly only used against Gush.

[RecklessEmbermage]

To abuse vial, it is in my opinion necessary to have a healthy amount of one-drops, preferably ten-ish. A few posts above, I suggested adding red, for wild nacatl and gorilla shaman. I still don't reach ten 1cc creatures, but seven of them is enough that I get to use my mana more effectively in general and get an extra use out of vial most of the time. The manabase is somewhat janky and my card choices are all reflecting my unpowered meta.

Actual manabase:

3 arid mesa
1 wooded foothills
3 plateau
2 taiga
1 savannah
2 horizon canopy
1 plains
1 karakas
4 wasteland
2 ghost quarter
1 strip mine
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 mox diamond

What I would like to run (still unpowered):

4 windswept heath
4 plateau
1 taiga
1 savannah
2 horizon canopy
1 plains
1 forest
4 wasteland
2 ghost quarter
1 strip mine
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 mox diamond

The difference would only be the turn 1 forest into turn 2 plateau, which is currently not possible. In exchange I get Karakas which has been bouncing Dorans this afternoon, conveniently enough. The number of sources of each colour would be the same. So far, the manabase has been more or less stable, but I have been locked out of green a few times. Red is not such a big issue. It is only there for the one-drops. The rest of the deck:

4 wild nacatl
3 gorilla shaman
4 qasali pridemage
4 leonin arbiter
3 jotun grunt
2 gaddock teeg
2 stingscourger

4 aether vial
3 skullclamp
4 path to exile
1 balance

I was thinking about balance the other day and came to realize there was a lot of built-in synergy for it in this deck. It can help attack manabases, since I operate with very few sources and can even sack the canopys to lower my land count. It also reduces the downside of ghost quarters and paths. I have a bunch of artifacts and ESGs to break parity of cards in hand. If I have more creatures than the opponent, I can often sac a clamped creature, refueling. Qasali breakes the parity of balance: I loose a permanent affected by balance to a permanent not affected by it. Since I cannot tutor for it, it will only be randomly good. On the other hand, the deck can easily maneuver into a position where a topdecked balance is good.

Jotun grunt is still great. I don't get why people are cutting him lately. A big body that disrupts most opponents. Gets more help from clamp than goyf does and is easier on the manabase in this build.

Stingscourgers are a recent inclusion. They are there to deal with beefy cretures and have been working fine the few games I've played them (today). I do not anticipate I'll keep them in and will probably exchange them for relic warders.