Blightsteel Colossus

[Wagner]

I'm not really too disappointed this is seeing print.

Now maybe I think it's stupid and someone else thinks it's really awesome, which is fine because we all have our own opinions, but just maybe it wasn't necessary to print this card either.

To the person that thinks its awesome, lets see how awesome it is when the next iteration gets haste and shroud.

There is not much space for powercreep left.

Bah, they can just make it 12/12 next time.

[Killane]

Excepting Infinite Life, Emrakul is still better/more powerful and vastly harder to kill. If this were not a robot, I doubt it's even Vintage playable.

[DubDub]

Excepting Infinite Life, Emrakul is still better/more powerful and vastly harder to kill. If this were not a robot, I doubt it's even Vintage playable.

But it is, so it is.

[Mr. Type 4]

i kinda wish they would just put some kind of anti-tinker clause on these cards, like "if you didnt play this from your hand, sacrifice it and shuffle it back into your deck." Of course that messes it up to combo with forgemaster and other type 2/Extended stuff. 

If this were not a robot, I doubt it's even Vintage playable.

lol, if it wasn't a robot, it wouldn't be playable in anything (except maybe type 4)

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

I'm not really too disappointed this is seeing print.

Now maybe I think it's stupid and someone else thinks it's really awesome, which is fine because we all have our own opinions, but just maybe it wasn't necessary to print this card either.

To the person that thinks its awesome, lets see how awesome it is when the next iteration gets haste and shroud.

There is not much space for powercreep left.

To the cry baby. Cry more!
It's not gunna get too insane. Wotc does keep things more in check now a days. Im sure players will lose games because they chose this robot over sphinx and inky. And if you're afraid of playing against potentially broken cards and efficient win conditions, this is probably not the format for you.

[Killane]

i kinda wish they would just put some kind of anti-tinker clause on these cards, like "if you didnt play this from your hand, sacrifice it and shuffle it back into your deck." Of course that messes it up to combo with forgemaster and other type 2/Extended stuff.  

If this were not a robot, I doubt it's even Vintage playable.

lol, if it wasn't a robot, it wouldn't be playable in anything (except maybe type 4)

Lol, I'm not sue about standard. There may be good enough ways to cheet him into play in that format, since there are far fewer answers. Emrakul sees standard play. My point is that Emrakul is more powerful and given the essentially infinite mana cost, if this were not an artifact, why woudl you pick it over Emmy (say as an Oath target)? Only as a metagam choice if some infinite life deck became possible popular/good enough.

[Adan]

This thing is broken, no doubt, but I think it's a rather mediocre choice at the moment.

Everyone plays MUD. And if they don't, they are probably playing something blue with Jace. If they don't, they play Noble Fish, which has Swords to Plowshares maindeck. And if they don't playing anything mentioned before, they are dredging.
With MUD being the strongest competitor (at least here in Europe), a lot of decks play massbounce. But not only against MUD, but actually to answer Inkwell Leviathan and now Myr Battlesphere. MUD plays Scuplting Steel to answer any Tinker-Robot and copying a BSC will make it possible to handle him since Infect will circumvent being indestructible in case the 2 Colossi should clash together.
Noble Fish plays StoPs maindeck. Not to mention that they will most likely drop their Meddling Mage on your Tinker because it's the most lame shit for Fish.

And Tinker itself was never fast enough against Dredge preboard (because Dredge is just being Dredge here) and postboard (thanks to Chain of Vapor. Anything that is fast enough to race Dredge can be bounced, anything that can't be bounced is too slow).

I just have the impression that Blightsteel Colossus still has got the same weaknesses that any other Robot has. Sphinx can pull you back into play against anything that runs creatures, Inkwell kills Fish automatically, Myr Battlesphere currently is the most versatile Robot (2 Turn clock, extra permanents, 4 dorks dealing damage/eating Jaces in case it gets bounced, easy to hardcast when playing Drains/T.Academy. Ah, nice random synergy with T.Academy btw.) and well, yes, I see no huge advantage except being a 1-Turn clock but with all the vulnerabilities that your Robot actually shouldn't have.

Basically any deck in the format is currently prepared against Tinker-Robot strategies.

[TheShop]

Yeah, except that you now have find said answer so quickly that topdeck tutors could be too slow.

[Diakonov]

The key here is that against Jace decks or Oath, this guy will likely be better than Battlesphere.  If you have Force backup when you Tinker, it is very hard to lose.  I generally measure it by assuming that each turn you give a powered blue deck is another ~50% chance that they come up with an answer.  If they already have Jace on board, then the Tinker plan isn't so great, but that goes for any Tinker target.  I suppose Battlesphere could take out Jace, but in the meantime they've paid   for double Brainstorm and virtually fogging your Tinker target (or Brainstorming once and bouncing it, making it far less relevant), which is not exactly a bright situation anyway.

I was never really a fan of Inkwell.  He often couldn't race aggro, which semi-defeated the purpose.

[forests failed you]

Blightsteel Colossus is really, really, good and is going to make a big splash in Vintage no doubt--but not to worry Vintage can handle him. 

[chewy01234]

Get your Leeches ready....

This won't help as you lose in 1 turn my dude.

[Prospero]

Common ways to handle this card that are already seeing play:

1.  Chain of Vapor
2.  Hurkyl's Recall
3.  Rebuild
4.  Goblin Welder
5.  Maze of Ith
6.  Duplicant
7.  Swords to Plowshares
8.  Path to Exile

Still, this card was entirely unnecessary.  Why did Wizards feel the need to effectively print a 21/11 Tinker target?  

When Shops got Lodestone Golem, they got a card that helped revive the deck.  Blue decks getting Preordain was cool.  This, unlike those cards, isn't a gift.  It's an insult.  

People who didn't play the format complained that it wasn't skill related, and that there were too many dumb games that ended before any real interaction took place.  How do you argue against that when you have every blue deck capable of playing Tinker running this guy?  If your opponent doesn't have the Force, or the answer, immediately, they're dead.  

He's going to be everywhere.  There will be a preponderance of hate.  He'll win a slew of games anyways because you don't always have everything that you need.  And I don't see how this makes things better, helps out a pillar, or does anything but make things worse for a while.

Could you imagine Owen's Jace deck winning Worlds with this guy around?  He ran 0 maindeck bounce.  

Awful printing.  Gross.

[AmbivalentDuck]

Could you imagine Owen's Jace deck winning Worlds with this guy around?  He ran 0 maindeck bounce.

3x Jace TMS doesn't count?

[Womba]

Common ways to handle this card that are already seeing play:

1.  Chain of Vapor
2.  Hurkyl's Recall
3.  Rebuild
4.  Goblin Welder
5.  Maze of Ith
6.  Duplicant
7.  Swords to Plowshares
8.  Path to Exile
*9. Jace TMS

Could you imagine Owen's Jace deck winning Worlds with this guy around?  He ran ONLY 3* maindeck bounce. 

Fixed

[Mr. Type 4]

People who didn't play the format complained that it wasn't skill related, and that there were too many dumb games that ended before any real interaction took place.  How do you argue against that when you have every blue deck capable of playing Tinker running this guy?  If your opponent doesn't have the Force, or the answer, immediately, they're dead. 

This is my primary complaint about the card.  Not that it's unbeatable (there's plenty of 1 mana answers), but that it epitomises the things that the "haters" say is bad about Vintage. 

It also will salughter some newbies that will never want to play Vintage again.  Great. 

IMO, I think that priniting anything with a natural power of 10+ with infect has a lot of potential to be a bad idea. 

[Commandant]

I see no huge advantage except being a 1-Turn clock but with all the vulnerabilities that your Robot actually shouldn't have.

This is a really good point and something I was trying to get across to a few fellow Boston players unfortunately they were not getting it.

I wish people would stop hyping/whining; this thing eats it to removal all day long.

Yeah it's a degenerate printing. Yeah it's going to steal some games - this isn't any different from a bunch of other busted cards in Vintage.

[Prospero]

Could you imagine Owen's Jace deck winning Worlds with this guy around?  He ran 0 maindeck bounce.

3x Jace TMS doesn't count?

Slipped my mind.  Still, he ran no maindeck Hurkyl's, Chain, Rebuild.  So I don't think the point is entirely moot.

And, Mark, you can't call that bounce when your opponents were Tinker'ing in Inkwell Leviathans against him.

[2nd_lawl]

I'm not really too disappointed this is seeing print.

Now maybe I think it's stupid and someone else thinks it's really awesome, which is fine because we all have our own opinions, but just maybe it wasn't necessary to print this card either.

To the person that thinks its awesome, lets see how awesome it is when the next iteration gets haste and shroud.

There is not much space for powercreep left.

Clearly this card is the broken one and not Tinker.  So much Power Creep.

[Womba]

Common ways to handle this card that are already seeing play:

1.  Chain of Vapor
2.  Hurkyl's Recall
3.  Rebuild
4.  Goblin Welder
5.  Maze of Ith
6.  Duplicant
7.  Swords to Plowshares
8.  Path to Exile
*9. Jace TMS

Could you imagine Owen's Jace deck winning Worlds with this guy around?  He ran ONLY 3* maindeck bounce. 

Fixed

When did THIS GUY/CARD (I assume we are talking about BSC) = Inkwell....?

[Prospero]

Common ways to handle this card that are already seeing play:

1.  Chain of Vapor
2.  Hurkyl's Recall
3.  Rebuild
4.  Goblin Welder
5.  Maze of Ith
6.  Duplicant
7.  Swords to Plowshares
8.  Path to Exile
*9. Jace TMS

Could you imagine Owen's Jace deck winning Worlds with this guy around?  He ran ONLY 3* maindeck bounce. 

Fixed

When did THIS GUY/CARD (I assume we are talking about BSC) = Inkwell....?

When Owen played this deck in August he had no maindeck bounce that was capable of handling an Inkwell Leviathan.

I wasn't drawing comparisons, merely saying that the of the artifact bounce suite that a blue pilot is capable of running, Owen ran 0 cards.

[Cruel Ultimatum]

Common ways to handle this card that are already seeing play:

1.  Chain of Vapor
2.  Hurkyl's Recall
3.  Rebuild
4.  Goblin Welder
5.  Maze of Ith
6.  Duplicant
7.  Swords to Plowshares
8.  Path to Exile
*9. Jace TMS

Could you imagine Owen's Jace deck winning Worlds with this guy around?  He ran ONLY 3* maindeck bounce. 

Fixed

When did THIS GUY/CARD (I assume we are talking about BSC) = Inkwell....?

When Owen played this deck in August he had no maindeck bounce that was capable of handling an Inkwell Leviathan.

I wasn't drawing comparisons, merely saying that the of the artifact bounce suite that a blue pilot is capable of running, Owen ran 0 cards.

So Owen won worlds with 0 ways of dealing with inkwell, but you think he wouldnt have won if BSC was printed despite having 3 answers to it?

[Delha]

So Owen won worlds with 0 ways of dealing with inkwell, but you think he wouldnt have won if BSC was printed despite having 3 answers to it?

In fairness, Vault/Key is a very good way of dealing with Inkwell. Just sayin.

[i_set_fire]

Owen had three MD trygons to swoop in and kill BSC before he even swung.  

Thanks dubdub for reminding me to actually read cards.

[DubDub]

Owen had three MD trygons to swoop in and kill BSC before he even swung. 

_____steel Colossi are indestructible.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

 Why did Wizards feel the need to effectively print a 21/11 Tinker target?  

because the 11/11 wasn't good enough

[TheWhiteDragon]

I don't see the big complaint about this guy.  Yes, he can win in one swing, but he is highly answerable.  All of the tinkerable artifacts are fairly degenerate when on the battlefield.  This one more than most is a dead draw since he is uncastable and can't be FoW fodder.  It isn't BSC, it is tinker that is bonkers.  We love to play that broken card though, so I don't see why what critters are available to tinker up draw the complaints.  Tinker fits in almost every deck too, so it isn't like big blue got a tool that the others can't abuse.  I run tinker in my blue decks, oath decks, stax decks, fish decks, etc.  It's on par with ancestral to me as far as must-include, brokenness in decks.  This actually gives most decks a 1 turn answer to the non-interactive monster that is dredge.  If I can beat dredge by casting turn 1 tinker and then swinging turn 2 through their "can't block" bloodghasts and steal games without grave hate, that seems awesome to me.  I never cared for turn 1 tinker on inkwell or sphinx or DSC only to be overrun by turn 3 to 30 hill-giant-hasty-zombies by a deck that ignores my deck entirely.

[Blue Lotus]

I think people are missing the complaint about this card. Yes vintage can handle it. anyone who plays the format knows this.

However, to the outside eye, which is the majority of magic players, this makes vintage seem more luck based and in general a crappy format. So i decry the printing of BSC for this reason, not how 'broken' it is. I mean if this is broken, what is tinker?

[MaximumCDawg]

I decry the fact that we have so many pages dedicating to discussion about a dude who is exceedingly simple and whose use is exceedingly obvious.  The more interesting printings like Tezz arn't getting anywhere near the discussion this thick-headed dude is.

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

I decry the fact that we have so many pages dedicating to discussion about a dude who is exceedingly simple and whose use is exceedingly obvious.  The more interesting printings like Tezz arn't getting anywhere near the discussion this thick-headed dude is.

I concur! Shops players are obv mad about this dude, but truth be known golem has been running wild powning many ppl...BSC...I love you

In addition for all the ppl who are so worried about this guy suck it up and play more bounce in your deck, or maze (if your shops), or staff, or more dups, etc!...Fact of the matter is blue decks had to adapt to the ridiculous shop decks running around nowadays playing maindeck trygons, claims, more bounce, etc...ppl are just being sour about this guy! ADAPT TO HIM IF YOUR SO WORRIED!

[DubDub]

Article up on SCG today breaking down whether Blightsteel Colossus is 'good design' or not:

One-Shot, the Robot by Geordie Tait.