[Free Article] Vintage Avant-Garde: 8 Things Wizards Could Do To Improve Magic

[forests failed you]

New free article "8 Things Wizards Could Do To Improve Magic" is up on Starcitygames.com:

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/misc/21239_Vintage_AvantGarde_8_Things_Wizards_Could_Change_To_Improve_Magic.html


Discuss?

Cheers,
Brian DeMars

[CHaPuZaS]

Open for discussion! I really enjoyed the article, Brian. This kind of articles start useful discussions for Vintage communities, which I think is the main reason for writing Vintage related articles. Here is my opinion on this debate:

1. Full Art Lands With The Original Alpha/Beta Pictures - Super Agree!

That will be awesome! I have never thought of that, even though I've seen full art Dual Lands proxies. Simple and impressive, and will also be presented as the dawn of the return to Dominaria, which is also my favourite MTG related central story.

2. Return To Using Literary Flavor Texts On New Magic Cards - Agree! But...

I'm also trying (sometimes harder than others) to get my English Philology degree, so I will also love to see some recovered from literature flavor texts. On the other hand, might not be as useful fo M:TG. Cards might need to be as story oriented as they can and to fulfill that, any relation to real world might as well be bad. It's a difficult point.

3. Give Players The Option To Lock In Their DCI Ratings When They Want To - Disagree

Just for the reason that with the actual DCI functionalities is just impossible to perform.What you said has also happened to me and most of my friends (for example, qualifying for Nationals or getting byes for GPs, BoM and so on...). The only option is top sit down and wait, reach point #4 of your debate OR participate in casual non-rated tournaments, which happen to exist with the new WPN program. You just have to tell your organizer to announce that, and see if other high-ranked players want to play, some of your friends and some local players and you can be playing a tournament.

The truth is that participating in a DCI-Sanctioned event and not being able to win points from some players is very unfair for all the other players. Granted you'll be losing points with a 3-1 result if your ranked high, but that's how K-Value System was meant to work. What will I propose? This seems to me way easier than locking DCI ratings: "Give Players The Option To Lock In Their DCI Rating Invtation During the Previous Month to a Tounament". By which statement you'll be qualified for a PT, GP, Nationals and so on if you "reach the Top" somewhen during the last month. That will also solve the problem of being always in the TopXXX, and be advanced last week.

4. Unsanctioned Friday Night Magic And Prereleases - Kind of Disagree...

I really think that all tournaments should be sanctioned, as this is positive for most players and organizers, and as I told in the last point, you can play in Casual Non-Rated tournaments as my organizer status shows:



You can even put special rules for the tournament such as: Planechase, EDH/Commander, Standard, Playing under the table...

5. Explore Alternate Premium Card Options To Foils - Agree!

Wizards has already "being inspired" by so many things from other games that it kind of surprises me that they haven't chosen to follow this path. Yu Gi Oh players can find two or four variants of the same card with different rarities and card, although I think all of them are foils.

6. Abolish The Mythic Rarity - Agree/Disagree at the same time!

As Sam Witwicky said: "There's more than meets the eye" in that point. I'm also aware that the price of Mythic Rares is emptying most M:TG players' wallets. iThere are reasons that explain why Mythic Rares where necessary for such a long-lived and heavily played game as Magic, but what I disagree with is with the cards that are being put in the MR slot.

7. Fix The Commander Banned List - Agree! But...

The problem with Commander/EDH is that as popular as it is, it's different for each individual. While I agree with most of your changes, each playgroup have it's own "Banned List" or hated cards, which makes kind of very difficult to be able to fulfill a good Banned List. You know, just like in Vintage...

8. Abolish The Reserved List - SUPERMEGAAGREE!

This is the main point! This is where everything falls under. From my point of view, the Reserved List will be the assassin (In the medium and long run) of Vintage and Legacy. Nothing else has to be said, IMO, about this point, as it's safe to admit that the price of old cards won't be going down and the future of the formats depends on that.

Very nice points and article. Thank you!

[forests failed you]

I don't think I explained what I meant by "Locking in rating" as clearly as I could have.

I don't mean that a person would have their rating set, and that it wouldn't change--what I mean is that for the purposes of earning byes or invites to events one could decide to essentially "lock in" their rating ahead of time.  So, say that the cut off to check for top 100 rating for invites for a PT is on June 5th, but on May 4th I get second at a PTQ and my Total Rating is 2085 (almost assuredly good enough to make the cut).  On May 4th I would have the option to lock my rating in for the June 5th cut off date at 2085.  Now, if I locked it in on May 4 at 2085 and then the very next day I go 0-8 drop at another PTQ and lose 200 points, my rating would adjust correctly and I would have a total rating of 1885.  However, because I "locked in" when they check for top 100 in June if my locked in 2085 rating is in the top 100 (between current top 100 and others who have locked in high ratings) I would still qualify for an invite---even though my current 1885 wouldn't normally get me there. 

Its simply a way that if you get the rating you wanted for an event you were planning on attending anyway that you don't have to sit out of sanctioned magic for weeks or even months to keep rating up. 

So, once every PT season you can lock in your rating for one event--it can be nationals, worlds, PT, byes at a GP whatever.  Hopefully that makes more sense.

[TheBrassMan]

Fantastic article Brian!

I'm not sure where I stand on mythics - but as someone who borrows Jaces for sanctioned event, I recognize I'm not really in a position to comment

Other than that I agree with basically everything.  While some of those aren't top issues for me, they still all seem like great ideas.  I do think that, like CHaPuZaS mentioned, you could get a best-of-both-worlds solution to FNMS, by making them sanctioned but nonrated.

Great stuff, but even if I hadn't agreed with your points, I love the format - I may have to steal it some week!  Hope to read more like this in the future.

[CHaPuZaS]

So, once every PT season you can lock in your rating for one event--it can be nationals, worlds, PT, byes at a GP whatever.  Hopefully that makes more sense.

Then I guess it's the same what I was saying, but I misunderstood. Thank you and perfect then!

[Yare]

I'm not sure the original beta art would lend themselves to full-length card art. Perhaps art in the style of beta art?

Also, I would love to see the Reserved List finally get the axe. Perhaps we could try to get that train rolling again, though I know that was not the focus of the article. I think if we got the Legacy players involved, we might be able to get some serious momentum going on that front, as the Vintage players alone are probably insufficient. Perhaps Wizards could announce that the Reserved List will be abolished at some point in the future (say, even three years), to give the market a chance to adjust rather than having an abrupt change.

[H]

With regards to the Reserved List, i was having a discussion with a friend of mine the other day on just the same issue.

I feel that with the List in place, eventually, Legacy will have the same status with the majority of players that Vintage now does.  One which they view as 'too expensive', 'too broken', and it will be relegated to a 'niche' format.

That being said, the time-line is unclear.  That could be 10, 20 or 50 years away for all we know.  But i feel it is an inevitable result of a scarcity of cards.  Just like they have with power, eventually, collectors, hoarders, and speculators will have enough market control of Legacy staples to price most players out of the format.

[Joblin Velder]

That being said, the time-line is unclear.  That could be 10, 20 or 50 years away for all we know.  But i feel it is an inevitable result of a scarcity of cards.  Just like they have with power, eventually, collectors, hoarders, and speculators will have enough market control of Legacy staples to price most players out of the format.

Its not just hoarding. There are a finite number of dual lands and other older format staples that WILL be destroyed over a period of years. Without some sort of infusion, availability will become more of an issue and prices will rise.

[Valorale]

You hit on a lot of points that youre sure to find many supporters for especially in this community.

Three I liked the most: The flavor text, couldnt agree more. I dont know what happened between the period of The Dark and Ice Age but we went from great quotes like the one on Fissure to the garbage we saw on Polar Kraken. "It was big. Really, really, big. No, bigger than that. It was big!" ... Really?? What an absolute waste.

In the world of magic 'pimp' I see two schools. The first is those who prefer the Alpha/Beta cards. I liken them to those who enjoy driving classic luxury vehicles; Mercedes, BMWs etc. The other is that of foils and Asian language cards. I liken this to sup'd up Hondas with loud mufflers and neon lights underneath. I personally find the latter to be loud and obnoxious and have no use for it.

The Reserved List needs to die. Its purpose has long since expired.

[conboy31]

I got a kick out of the EDH banned list.  Last night I was sitting around a friends house watching them play starcraft II and Rift while I was bantering macro advice.  I decided to make an EDH deck (I have not made one in a few years).  I checked out the EDH banned list, grabbed a piece of paper, and started making a decklist.

The first 5 cards were:

sol ring
mana crypt
mana vault
necropotence
yawgmoth's will

[Odd mutation]

". . . There was no trace
Of aught on that illumined face . . . ."

[Marske]

1. Full Art Lands With The Original Alpha/Beta Pictures
To be completely honest, I couldn't care less as I prefer the Unhinged lands mostly. That being said, I can see where people would want this, it's a matter of taste though. I'm just a general supporter of having full art basics regardless of the art as it looks just so much better. The Zendikar lands (with a few exceptions) are all totally awesome and I think it's a shame they didn't cut the "old" Basic land frame all together.

2. Return To Using Literary Flavor Texts On New Magic Cards
Again, this is a matter of taste, but I do prefer what Magic's doing now. If you dive into the core of the flavor (another reason why for example Day of Judgement is a lot better a name then Wrath of God) Magic has it's own World(s) each with their own history and literature. Having "real world" literature or other quotes connected to the world we players live in appear on Magic cards or it's lore is like breaking the fourth wall which I don't really like in this instance.

3. Give Players The Option To Lock In Their DCI Ratings When They Want To
I'm thorn on this subject, on one side, I can see why people would want this as they can still play without fear of losing what they worked for when they are trying to move up in competitive play. On the other side, this is only going to help people not in the Pro Players Club already (as I understand it you don't lose pro-points when your rating drops it's determined at the end/beginning of each season), players can already secure byes / invites for the PT/ GP's by accumilating Pro points  which works like:

Level 1

    * Member receives one bye at all Grand Prix tournaments

Level 2

    * Member receives two byes at all Grand Prix tournaments
    * Member is invited to his or her country's national championship

Level 3

    * Member receives two byes at all Grand Prix tournaments
    * Member is invited to his or her country's national championship
    * Member is invited to one Pro Tour or the World Championships (as chosen by each member) during the current season. Players will not receive their invitations until the Thursday prior to the chosen Pro Tour.

Level 4

    * Member is invited to his or her country's national championship
    * Member receives three byes at all Grand Prix tournaments
    * Member is invited to all Pro Tours and the World Championship. Players will not receive their invitations until the Thursday prior to each Pro Tour.

..... etc

Pro Players Club info from here

I don't really see why there should be a system in place for people that don't have the skills to get pro points to just keep qualifying on rating by winning small local events and accumelating a shitton of rating points that way. Being a "pro" is a privilige and something a lot of people work very hard for. A "lock rating in place for a single event" would diminish the value of having Qualifiers to a certain degree.

Now, you could argue that some people don't have the time to grind Qualifiers but just want to experience being on the PT or have byes for a GP that's local to them and those do get "screwed" out of playing events having to sit on their rating by the current system. I would really love to have more money then I could spend, but you don't see me sitting on my money every month trying to accumilate as much as possible either...If you want to live the dream you've got to pay the price, which means grinding and playing Magic to a degree where it's more like work then a hobby.

I think if you're not able to get there on rating because you dropped 200 points going X-2 drop or worse at a local event or something what makes you think you can make it at the GP/PT Level?! Qualifications on rating are awesome and all but if you really want to be "sure" of making it in there's a way to do that already for players that don't have a Pro Players Club membership, win a PTQ or GPT.

This shouldn't be that hard if you're that good / have so much time to make it on rating. If it is, I'd severly doubt if you're good enough to actually be at the events and if you wouldn't do well to practice a bit harder. There's no use in locking in rating (which in a sense players can already do, using the Pro-players club) for a single event then getting X-2 dropped out of that event having to go through the entire ordeal again scrapping for whatever rating points you can for the next event, you're probably better of grinding Qualifiers instead, at least you get to keep playing. People should be less anal about rating points, seriously.

A friend of mine got qualified for Nationals last year on rating just by winning a shitton of X people Legacy events. He then got (rightfully) punted out of Nationals after a few rounds because he had no "right" in being there in the first place facing down people that had actually put in tremendous hours of playing T2 and Limited and had won NQ's, Pro Player Club/ Hall of Fame/ rating invites to be there.

Since your global rating is affected by Eternal, Limited, Constructed etc. I think the current system is quite fair and gets a lot of people out of events they shouldn't be in. Regardless if they feel / think they should be. It's only the people trying to "sit on" their rating that can't actually play in fear of losing their precious points. Again, I see no reason why there should be a system to help these people out.

4. Unsanctioned Friday Night Magic And Prereleases
I really seen no reason to not have these be sanctioned. Members of the Pro Player Club can participate (whether this is worth their time and effort is another matter) regardless because Pro Points aren't affected by rating, people grinding can also keep playing these because even with a 1300 rating you get to go on the Pro Tour / get byes at a GP if you win a PTQ / GPT. It's only the people trying to "sit on" their rating that can't actually play in fear of losing their precious points. Again, I see no reason why there should be a system to help these people out.

5. Explore Alternate Premium Card Options To Foils
I fully agree, having textless cards, full art Basics (or duals!) or whatever is totally awesome, as long as they keep away from having any kind of logo (Blagh, FNM in the textbox etc) anywhere near the cards.

6. Abolish The Mythic Rarity
Somebody needs to take a better look at how Economics work.....

At the end of the day, there's only going to be a set amount of money in the system, Mytic's only changed the distribution of that money. It hasn't made Magic more / less expensive to play compared to before  when there were no Mytics (not including the overall inflation). An example would be Glacial Fortress being at : $3.99, a Rare Dual Land that see's a TON of play in the best deck of the format. Before there were Mythics this land would be $10,- easy, but since most of the money is going to Jace, TMS (at an average of $85,-) they average out much lower. Compare playing T2 to playing T2 during Ravnica block (with duals at $25,- needing multiple playsets for single decks) and you'll see it's not at all that much more expensive.

7. Fix The Commander Banned List
Wait, What?! Seriously, I always thought the change to "Commander" meant that WoTC supported the format and would be printing awesome cards for it. Not that it would change from being "EDH" The Format Where All Playgroups Get Their Own Ban List.... if you don't like stuff, deal with it within your own group. If you want to play Tournament in Commander, well, sure... but who in the hell would want to do that besides just for shits and giggles...

8. Abolish The Reserved List
The only thing in the entire article I can 1000% agree with, the Reserved list is a relic from times long gone by. Then again, I have a totally weird view on the monetary value of Magic cards compared to most Traders / Collectors...

[DubDub]

In general I hold the opinion that there has to be a good reason to limit the options open to Wizards as they make the game, and players as they enjoy it.

1. Full Art Lands With The Original Alpha/Beta Pictures
I'm all for this, because there's no good reason not to do it.*  Full-art Un-lands were such a big hit that they made a return in Zendikar, there's surely a large number of players who'd like to see these.

*If re-licensing these arts would be prohibitively expensive, then it's possible I'd rather see Wizards make investments elsewhere, but I have no insight into the finances, so I'll just support the idea.

2. Return To Using Literary Flavor Texts On New Magic Cards
No reason, in my opinion for Wizards to artificially limit themselves to not using real-world quotes, unless there is again an issue of expense.

3. Give Players The Option To Lock In Their DCI Ratings When They Want To
This seems to me to offer a way for players to play more, without the fear of reducing their rating to their detriment.  This looks like a "victimless crime" situation, where the same group of people will end up qualifying on rating for a tournament, but they get to play more in the meantime.

4. Unsanctioned Friday Night Magic And Prereleases
In keeping with the above, it should be available as an option.

5. Explore Alternate Premium Card Options To Foils
In keeping with the above, it should be available as an option.  One of the things I think would be cool would be doing a one-off card in a language Magic is not usually printed in.  I think there are Hebrew 'Glory's for instance, no?

A bit out of order here:
7. Fix The Commander Banned List
You make a good point.  Sol Ring has decided far more games, earlier, than Sway of the Stars would.  I think a full review of what's on the list, and what problem cards aren't on the list is in order.  I also feel that artifacts (truly colorless ones, unlike some of those from recent years, and I suppose this applies to lands as well) should have a slightly lower threshold for banning than cards with color, since powerful cards that go in every deck serve to homogenize the format, while powerful red cards (for instance) serve to differentiate red decks from non-red decks.

The big guns:
6. Abolish The Mythic Rarity
I think either Mythic rarity needs to go, or it needs to be kept but refocused.  I think the execution during Shards block was amazing: big bomby creatures and spells, narrow planeswalkers, etc.  No purely utility cards, or simply hyperefficient cards where Mythic rarity was an excuse to push powerlevel.

Then Baneslayer came, and JaceTMS, and Primeval Titan.  All leagues beyond their competition for deckspace.  Not to mention Lotus Cobra, Vengevine, and the other Titans.

Rosewater talks a lot about creating tension, so that players' decisions matter, but I don't see that in their recent printings at Mythic.  It seems to me like Standard becoming more about answering a standardized list of questions:

1. Does your opponent have a must-kill threat that you can kill?  Yes = kill it.  No = concede.
2. Do you have a must-kill threat in your hand?  Yes = good!  No = find one.
3. Do you have enough mana to cast a must-kill threat?  Yes = cast it.  No = ramp.

There's no tension if the game's over, Mark: if I have 11 poison counters, or -6 permanents, or if my opponent is looking at four cards per turn costlessly.

I honestly believe there would be more tension with JTMS if a) his starting loyalty was 2, and b) his Brainstorm ability cost 1 loyalty.  In every fantasy game... ever... the wizard/illusionist caste is presented as a glass cannon, except JTMS.  I think there would be more tension with the Titans if you got their trigger on turns where you didn't attack with them.  A 6/6 wall that nets me two lands a turn for  is still pretty damn good, especially since it doesn't really have defender, and I can kill my opponent with it when I'm good and ready.  The vigilance on the white titan, and trigger on the red one would need to be tweaked, but that's not insurmountable.

8. Abolish The Reserved List
I'm for this, but I think it's too soon to have the debate again, given the strengthening the Reserved List received in 2010.

[Killane]

i agree with every point you made, except the EDH banned list point.

EDH is supposed to be a broken format. You're supposed to be abel toget away with crazy plays. heck, I pulled off a turn the other day wherein I cast Decree of Annhillation, it resolved, and yet I ended the turn with every permanant in my deck back in play, and everyone at the tabel laughed (and then conceeded). I've yet to see a game decided by turn 1 Sol Ring, though everyone in the group runs it in every deck. It's fun, not backbreaking. The ban list in this format has a different goal then every other foramt- mainly the #1 priority is to make games more fun. Looking at the banned cards, they are mostly just "unfun" single card combos and the like.

The Rules Committee, which maintains control of the format not the DCI or Wizards, has stated many times that the format is breakable. So what? If your playgroup has an issue with Sol Ring, Necropotence, etc... then ban them. The store i play at likes the official ban list, but we'd have a huge uproar if Sol Ring was banned. It's fun. That's the point.

[Marske]

As I couldn't explain it better myself, I urge everybody that thinks Mytic Rares ruin Magic to read this:

http://www.mananation.com/Mythic-rares-and-fungibility/#

[Smmenen]

Mythic rares haven't "ruined" magic.   Not even super mythics could do that.

But that doesn't mean they aren't a problem.  It's not ok, in my view, that standard playable cards are $100 a piece.  Magic shouldn't be a game of wealth.  The fact that rares are cheaper now is not justificatory. 

[zeromancer]

That's right. Also the fact that prices have shifted the way the article (the one marske has linked) outlines has a few extra drawbacks. First, you can hardly trade for chase mythics. Few people would consider any of the trades described in the article. Second, and this is related to the first point, limited becomes less and less rewarding. While before you could open or win a number of relatively valuable cards, now you have a very low chance of opening the jackpot and a high one of opening zonks. Finally, the "upside" of mythics that other cards have become cheaper does not help you in any way if you need the chase mythics to be somehow competitive. So, in my opinion mythics hurt the game significantly on several levels.

[Troy_Costisick]

Mythic rares haven't "ruined" magic.   Not even super mythics could do that.

But that doesn't mean they aren't a problem.  It's not ok, in my view, that standard playable cards are $100 a piece.  Magic shouldn't be a game of wealth.  The fact that rares are cheaper now is not justificatory. 

I think they're a gift to Shop Owners who rely on selling packs for income.  With mythics, you have to open tons of packs to get a playset.

[forests failed you]

They are not as much of a gift as one might think.

Firstly, Wizards has been sold out of Worldwake for months and there is no way to get sealed product short of acquiring it from the secondary market.  Secondly, when the best card in the format costs $100 it drives people away from Friday Night Magic because they are unable or unwilling to pay the price for singles to compete.  Thirdly, it is almost impossible for a store to acquire the chase mythics from players via trade ins from players.  For instance, if a store has to pay 70-80 cash to get a Jace and then somebody comes in and buys it for 100 store credit its basically a loss for the store--either way, it isn't something the store is happy about.

The "mythic argument" might be more specific to Jace, the Mindsculpter than to mythics in general, nonetheless it only takes one card per standard to make things really miserable...

[Lemnear]

I guess the article Marius linked to is too narrow to grab the problem. While most about the secondary market is right I miss 2 important topics:

1. The value of a set is widely focused on the mythics unlike before the 4th rarity Hit the stage. The top cards are shifted to mythic rarity and leaves mediocre cards in the rare slots, making limited and booster-cracking a pure waste of money. Look at the fairy-Deck: good cards interact and create a strong deck. Today we have splashy, dumb, unmissplayable (horrible word) Cards like Grave Titan etc. and ~20 random filler slots in Standard. My subjective opinion; I hate cards marked with a blink'n neon sign above them say'n: "I'm THE best card in the set, don't bother with the other shit!"

2. The article only mentioned Standard. What about Vengevine in Survival with it's 30€ Price tag per piece last year? Landstill, Countertop with their 72€ Jaces? If Wizards continues to print that kind of powerful eternal playable cards in that rarity, prices for ALL other formats will increase significant. Let 'em Print a 1u sorcery - draw 3 cards; or a R sorcery - 5 damage distributed as you choose; and see what happens.

[Tha Gunslinga]

They are not as much of a gift as one might think.

Firstly, Wizards has been sold out of Worldwake for months and there is no way to get sealed product short of acquiring it from the secondary market.  Secondly, when the best card in the format costs $100 it drives people away from Friday Night Magic because they are unable or unwilling to pay the price for singles to compete.  Thirdly, it is almost impossible for a store to acquire the chase mythics from players via trade ins from players.  For instance, if a store has to pay 70-80 cash to get a Jace and then somebody comes in and buys it for 100 store credit its basically a loss for the store--either way, it isn't something the store is happy about.

The "mythic argument" might be more specific to Jace, the Mindsculpter than to mythics in general, nonetheless it only takes one card per standard to make things really miserable...

If Mythics are hurting Magic, why is Wizards doing record business?  Why is Starcity getting massive turnouts for their 5Ks?  Why is every new GP setting an attendance record?  Gee, maybe the people with MBAs know a little about how to run their business.

[Marske]

They are not as much of a gift as one might think.

Firstly, Wizards has been sold out of Worldwake for months and there is no way to get sealed product short of acquiring it from the secondary market.  Secondly, when the best card in the format costs $100 it drives people away from Friday Night Magic because they are unable or unwilling to pay the price for singles to compete.  Thirdly, it is almost impossible for a store to acquire the chase mythics from players via trade ins from players.  For instance, if a store has to pay 70-80 cash to get a Jace and then somebody comes in and buys it for 100 store credit its basically a loss for the store--either way, it isn't something the store is happy about.

The "mythic argument" might be more specific to Jace, the Mindsculpter than to mythics in general, nonetheless it only takes one card per standard to make things really miserable...

If Mythics are hurting Magic, why is Wizards doing record business?  Why is Starcity getting massive turnouts for their 5Ks?  Why is every new GP setting an attendance record?  Gee, maybe the people with MBAs know a little about how to run their business.

QFT...!! People would be wise to indeed think about this next time they talk about Mytics ruining anything. Magic is healthier then it's ever been and the end is nowhere in sight. I do get that people that used to be able to buy around 40 bucks in "new" cards every set to stay Legacy/Vintage competitive are now forced to actually play drafts, trade or shell out 100+ bucks because of cards like Jace, but to be fair, we're a very very niche group.

[Smmenen]

If Mythics are hurting Magic, why is Wizards doing record business?  Why is Starcity getting massive turnouts for their 5Ks?  Why is every new GP setting an attendance record? 

There are plenty of reasons why that might be the case.  Maybe they are designing fun cards and great set?   Maybe they're managing the brand well and the formats well, etc.   

I don't think mythics, per se, are hurting magic.  But I do think having $100 cards in standard is a bad thing.   Magic should not be a game of wealth.   

[voltron00x]

Just to play devil's advocate on the Mythic thing, the "Mythics are fine, Magic is stronger than ever, look at Zen block sales!" argument is a slippery slope.  If Scars sales are worse than Zen sales, and they will be, does that mean that Mythics are hurting Magic now? 

Wizards made so many changes in a short period of time over the course of 2009 that attributing the games success in 2010 to just one factor is oversimplifying things.

I think we can all agree that Jace being $100 is not a good thing.

[Smmenen]

Just to play devil's advocate on the Mythic thing, the "Mythics are fine, Magic is stronger than ever, look at Zen block sales!" argument is a slippery slope.  If Scars sales are worse than Zen sales, and they will be, does that mean that Mythics are hurting Magic now? 

Wizards made so many changes in a short period of time over the course of 2009 that attributing the games success in 2010 to just one factor is oversimplifying things.

I think we can all agree that Jace being $100 is not a good thing.

I would hope so.  But I suspect that some dealers actually think its a good thing.   Ben, are you among them? 

I think the most a card for standard should cost is like $30-40, MAX. 

[DubDub]

To be fair, if we look at time periods longer than a year Wizards is still managing expensive Mythics' availability pretty well.  The problem is that such long time periods aren't relevant for Standard format competition, since Standard eligibility is such a driver for cost.

This is the apathyhouse graph for Baneslayer Angel (the non-foil, M10 version) for the past year, which was first printed in ~June 2009.


And here is Elspeth, Knight Errant over the past two years.


In each case reprinting the high cost card (in M11 or DD:EvT) lowered its value to much more reasonable levels.  (The rotation of EKE helped too.)

It's important to keep in mind that JTMS is a perfect storm of card availability issues as well.  If he had been printed in ZEN instead of WWK, all other things being equal, there would have been 3.3 times as many JTMS's opened by drafters (three months of triple ZEN plus three months of double ZEN versus three months of single WWK only, but 15 Mythics in ZEN versus 10 in WWK).

[vassago]

But I suspect that some dealers actually think its a good thing.   Ben, are you among them? 

I think the most a card for standard should cost is like $30-40, MAX. 

I don't think it's that big of a deal. Granted, I trade for even junk rares and a shell out Jaces, and I know not very many people care about B-s cards, but I do think it's not as big of a deal as some people are making it out to be. The only people I hear complain about the price of the card, are people who either don't play blue in the first place or just looking for a reason to complain. One of my favorite people here in Arizona, never buys cards, is jobless and some how manages to get his higher dollar mythics and I never hear him so much as mention the cost in trade that it takes to acquire them.

First, you can hardly trade for chase mythics. Few people would consider any of the trades described in the article.

Speaking from a trade point of view versus resellability, trading a JTMS for 9-10 zen fetches is something I'd do all effing day.  Fecthes sell a hell of a lot quicker than high dollar mythics 

[Smmenen]

but, do you think that you are representative of most magic players, if you don't think that $100 cards are a problem?

[ELD]

$100 Jace is literally the only reason I played in a series of local T2 events recently.  I had almost all of the expense covered, so getting some other UB stuff was a non-issue.  I have also traded a ton of Jaces to people looking to acquire them.  They're not hard to find at all, they're just valuable, so you have to shell out to get them. 

For those who are against $100 Standard rares, what is the reasoning?  It seems random to put an arbitrary cap on what other people should be willing to spend on cards.  Do people believe $100 Standard rares are preventing Magic from being something they'd want it to be?  Do people against these prices have issue with Golf costing as much as it does to play? 

I look at $100 cards in Standard as a sign that people actually want them, and Wizards has not flooded the market on those cards.  If people are willing to spend $100 for a Standard card, there is a huge demand for the game and it's parts.  I see this as a self regulating system, just like cards on the Reserve list.  If the cards are worth a lot, that's because people are willing to spend money on them.  People wanting Magic cards is a good thing for the game of Magic.  If the price gets too high for some people, they'll sell them to people who want them more.  If everyone is overvaluing their cards, and no one is willing to buy at the asking price, there will be a market correction.  The price will go down until the market begins moving cards again. 

[Eastman]

I am with ELD, I haven't seen the reason why the price point on certain mythics is a problem.  Smmenen says it is because "magic should not be a game of wealth."  Ok, well that isn't an answer at all--why shouldn't it?  People like spending money on their hobbies.  Compare a Jace to the cost of a decent paintball gun, or set of scuba gear, and the Jace looks darn cheap.  And it gives them that opportunity to feel like they really invested in making their hobby fun for them, which I think gives people a lot of utility.  

One thing that isn't in the article that would really improve magic is some means of calming down the casual/regular user group in tournament play.  Some players go CRAZY over minor rules violations during tournaments, completely disproportionately with the fact that this is a hobby we play for fun.  And even if it weren't a hobby, you don't see MLB or NFL players acting like children, as some MTG players do, during their big games.  I have personally seen players turned off playing because of a loud/angry player at another table in an event, and I would love to see Wizards do something to tone that down, maybe issue a sanction for poor sportsmanship or something.