[m13] Talrand, Sky Summoner

[MaximumCDawg]

Has anyone tried pairing this guy with an Arcane Denial package?  Seems like a good natural fit.

[Grand Inquisitor]

Has anyone tried pairing this guy with an Arcane Denial package?  Seems like a good natural fit.

(1) Why?
(2) This 'package' has never been successfully worked into a competitive list, so it may be a little generous to call it a 'package'
(3) I don't think this really works, since there are much better counters now available at the 0/1/2 CC slot, baubles don't ramp Talrand and the last thing the deck needs is more interdependent combos.

[AmbivalentDuck]

(3) I don't think this really works, since there are much better counters now available at the 0/1/2 CC slot, baubles don't ramp Talrand and the last thing the deck needs is more interdependent combos.

Not that I disagree at all with your conclusions, but wouldn't you replace the Baubles with Phyrexian mana spells that already have some playability? Gitaxian Probe and Surgical Extraction both fail to be awful.

[vaughnbros]

Has anyone tried pairing this guy with an Arcane Denial package?  Seems like a good natural fit.

This definitely sounds like it could work.  Even though arcane denial does have its disadvantages it is a hard counter for only 1 blue mana, making it much easier to cast than drain.  It also combos extremely well with the same things that combo extremely well with Talrand, like noxious revival, surgical extraction, and gitaxian probe.  You can also live the dream generating 2 drakes and 3 cards EOT for 2 mana 2 life and 2 cards.  I dont know if I would use this as the only draw engine in the deck though it doesnt exactly generate a whole lot of card advantage.

[TheWhiteDragon]

You can also live the dream generating 2 drakes and 3 cards EOT for 2 mana 2 life and 2 cards.  I dont know if I would use this as the only draw engine in the deck though it doesnt exactly generate a whole lot of card advantage.

I wouldn't really consider that "living the dream."  You basically net 1 card for 2 mana and 2 life.  Not sure casting a complicated night's whisper is "living a dream".  Why not just cast the probe/extraction/revival and NOT counter it, while generating 1 drake and a good effect....for 0 mana and 1 card (probe even cantrips, so you're not really netting anything there).

[marcb]

I think if I were looking for a counter spell made better by Talrand it would be abjure. A long time ago, someone put up a list using abjure and hatching plans as a draw engine and counter package. I'm not sure how that old list might benefit from this guy.

Marc

[vaughnbros]

You can also live the dream generating 2 drakes and 3 cards EOT for 2 mana 2 life and 2 cards.  I dont know if I would use this as the only draw engine in the deck though it doesnt exactly generate a whole lot of card advantage.

I wouldn't really consider that "living the dream."  You basically net 1 card for 2 mana and 2 life.  Not sure casting a complicated night's whisper is "living a dream".  Why not just cast the probe/extraction/revival and NOT counter it, while generating 1 drake and a good effect....for 0 mana and 1 card (probe even cantrips, so you're not really netting anything there).

It's end of turn, mono blue, you can use it as a counter, and you get to see an additional card making it a lot better than nights whisper.  surgical/noxious arent always very relevant abilities playing denial would allow you to essentially cycle that spell away in situations and match ups where it's bad.  Probe gives you a net of 0 this nets 1 so they are not the same.

I think if I were looking for a counter spell made better by Talrand it would be abjure. A long time ago, someone put up a list using abjure and hatching plans as a draw engine and counter package. I'm not sure how that old list might benefit from this guy.

Marc

Hatching plans doesn't have a whole lot of synergy with much else other than abjure though.  On top of that abjure isnt really castable until turn 2 at the earliest which makes it kind of weak.

[MaximumCDawg]

Yeah, the problem with making Arcane Denial work has always been finding a deck without space for countermagic and a draw package -- a deck that really wants to cram them together in the same card.  Im not saying Tarland does this, but he works so well with cheap spells and Denial as an engine that he seems likely to belong in a deck whenever it emerges.  If ever.

[Grand Inquisitor]

Arcane Denial and Abjure are pretty terrible.

When you're beginning along a design path where each choice makes your deck more complicated to play and requires more compromises on card quality ("surgical/noxious arent always very relevant")...then you're building a bad deck.

Talrand requires that you play sorceries and instants.  This is pretty easy to do in Vintage; there's no need for complicated sub-combos.

[evouga]

What is the Arcane Denial package? Countering your own spells to gain 1 net card for  +?

[Delha]

What is the Arcane Denial package? Countering your own spells to gain 1 net card for  +?

Yes.

IIRC, the sacrifical spell was typically a 0-cost artifact like Mishra's Bauble or such. The decklist I first saw it in was built around drawing and loading your yard, followed by a massive Will to get tons of free storm and cards from the replayed Baubles.

[marcb]

I should apologize for not being clearer when I mentioned abjure earlier in the thread. I was not actually advocating for this card. I thought the mention of arcane denial was an atempt to find underplayed cards that are made better by Talrand rather than an honest attempt to build the best deck with Talrand in it. I think if the goal is to use Talrand, I would start with a Gro shell. For a while back in the 4 brainstorn, 4 Gush era there was a control deck that looked a lot like gro except the quirion dryads and other creatures were replaced with even more disruption. The finishers in the deck were Tendrils and Meloku (ignoring Tinker). I could see Talrand replacing Meloku easily as a finisher in a combo/control deck with counters, thoughseize, gush/bond, and tendrils. That's where I would probably start.

[MaximumCDawg]

What is the Arcane Denial package? Countering your own spells to gain 1 net card for  +?

Yes.

IIRC, the sacrifical spell was typically a 0-cost artifact like Mishra's Bauble or such. The decklist I first saw it in was built around drawing and loading your yard, followed by a massive Will to get tons of free storm and cards from the replayed Baubles.

To be fair, it's not really just +1 card advantage.  You draw 3 new cards out of the transaction, so you're basically looting.  Arcane Denial basically reads: "Target free spell in your hand gains Cycling 2 until end of turn.  If you cycle it, draw two more cards."  The Bauble angle of attack is probably untenable because you're doing nothing with the baubles other than cycling them.  If you had a deck full of stuff that you could either cycle or use productively, that might be a thing.

So people have mentioned Surgical Extraction, and that seems like the ideal sort of card for this deck.  It does something very relevant on its own, and in a pinch you can cycle it away for profit with Denial.  After that, though, the list falls off pretty fast.  Gut Shot could work pretty well.  I can't think of any other cards that can be unconditionally cast for free whenever you need to cycle but also do something largely relevant to Vintage in the meantime.  (Gitaxian Probe is a terrible idea here, since it already cycles itself when you use it normally, so you don't profit at all from pairing it with Denial.)

If you go up to 1cc, then things get better, but then you're talking about spending 3 mana to discard 1 card and draw 3.  Just play Sift/Compulsive Research/Thirst for Knowledge.

Again, Denial is not "bad" exactly, it just has no home because:
(1) There are not a critical mass of useful free cards that work well with Denial; and
(2) No deck is so short of space it wants to merge its countermagic and draw engines to the detriment of both.

[Onslaught]

I've been trying him with Lotus Cobra lately, dunno if I'm on the right path with this particular build but I am confident in saying that Talrand in general is going to be a Vintage staple for a long time to come.

[Bill Copes]

I've been trying him with Lotus Cobra lately, dunno if I'm on the right path with this particular build but I am confident in saying that Talrand in general is going to be a Vintage staple for a long time to come.

That's a damned fine idea.  I've been goldfishing different shells and settled on a gush/preordain draw package.  The frustrating part was Talrand not coming down fast enough for my goldfish-based-liking.  You may have solved my puzzle 

[vaughnbros]

Again, Denial is not "bad" exactly, it just has no home because:
(1) There are not a critical mass of useful free cards that work well with Denial; and
(2) No deck is so short of space it wants to merge its countermagic and draw engines to the detriment of both.

Im interested in discussing these two points.  So how about I'm gonna try and extrapolate them out a little bit.

(1) there are a few categories of cards that I can think of that can be played for 0:

1. Phyrexian mana spells: I think its pretty much determined that the only 3 playable ones are surgical, noxious revival, and gitaxian probe, but even so I could probably find some combination of these that adds up to 6 cards, these are instants/sorceries making them combo very well with Talrand AND arcane denial.

2. Artifact mana:  Moxen, lotuses and mana crypt are in fact 0 mana.  Talrand costs 2 colorless mana and arcane denial 1 so being able to cast either one on first turn should be an ideal scenario to run a full set.

3. Easy conditional spells from Masks block:  Daze and Land Grant come to mind for this.  Daze is a very strong tempo play when you tap down for Talrand and on top of that becomes irrelevant so countering it with denial isnt a big deal late.  I dont think I would really consider land grant but its not difficult to cast for free, it can replace fetch lands, and its a sorcery.

4. Affinity spells:  I think this takes too high of an artifact count to be realistic in combination with Talrand.

5. X artifact spells:  Engineered Explosives can destroy sphere effects very efficiently which can be very important when your goal is to cast spells for free and it costs nothing at all if you want to pitch it to denial.

So we have 3 phyrexian mana spells, 8 artifact mana spells, Daze, and Engineered explosives that all seem extremely playable in this deck.

(2) I think your looking too narrowly here.  Its not that you need your draw engine and counter package to be the same card.  Its that you want to be able to play a deck that functions with multiple draw engines AND a heavy counter magic package.  This would mean against broken decks you have plenty of counters to destroy them on the stack and against fair decks you can bury them in card advantage.

So if this hypothetical deck list has 0 drops, denial, and talrand.  What combination of counters, draw and other cards would work well in such a list?

I've been trying him with Lotus Cobra lately, dunno if I'm on the right path with this particular build but I am confident in saying that Talrand in general is going to be a Vintage staple for a long time to come.

That's a damned fine idea.  I've been goldfishing different shells and settled on a gush/preordain draw package.  The frustrating part was Talrand not coming down fast enough for my goldfish-based-liking.  You may have solved my puzzle 

This seems like it could work.  One of my main gripes with cobra gush builds had always been that it fizzled too easily and Talrand has speed issues, combining the two should play well off each other.

[TheWhiteDragon]

It's not so much that probe alone is better than arcane + probe...it's that you are janking a deck to fit in arcane denial.  It's not good.  You say it can be a counter, but you forget your opponent then draws 2.  Digging 1 deeper at the cost of a 2 card combo is hardly as good as just going 2 deep off 1 card and not needing to run stuff you want to counter to be cute.   Just run out Tarland and use cheap cantrips and counters.  You don't need to make 10 tokens in a turn by chaining weak spells.  Just create a couple a turn by casting solid disruption and cantrips.  The times you are drawing good spells will be worth the sacrifice in speed as opposed to the turn you just ripped 3 noxious revivals in a row.

[vaughnbros]

It's not so much that probe alone is better than arcane + probe...it's that you are janking a deck to fit in arcane denial.  It's not good.  You say it can be a counter, but you forget your opponent then draws 2.  

I didnt forget this it also draws me a card.  Its a similar rate of card disadvantage as force of will is except instead of you going -1, your opponent goes +2 and you go +1.  Its really not as bad of a card as you are trying to make it out to be.  Its versatile in that it can be used on offense and defense, and as a result you pay with some card advantage for it.

Digging 1 deeper at the cost of a 2 card combo is hardly as good as just going 2 deep off 1 card and not needing to run stuff you want to counter to be cute.  

Idk if your math is wrong or your not expressing yourself correctly, but probe only draws 1 card and denial draws 3.  Noxious Revival, surgical, moxen, engineered explosives are hardly 'cute' cards a majority of top 8's will see at least 1 copy of each of those spells.

Just run out Tarland and use cheap cantrips and counters.  You don't need to make 10 tokens in a turn by chaining weak spells.  Just create a couple a turn by casting solid disruption and cantrips.

This is the idea of what I'm getting at, arcane denial, daze, and force the 3 counters I've mention so far are all cheap.  Noxious revival combined with recall or gush anything else that nets me +1 card is a cantrip. Gitaxian Probe is a cantrip.  The solid disruption and card draw slots that fit this deck list are what I'm currently looking for.   Its not about creating 10 tokens in one turn its about not losing your talrand being countered or destroyed.

The times you are drawing good spells will be worth the sacrifice in speed

I dont think a sacrifice in speed should be made or can be made if the objective of this discussion is to put a deck focused on Talrand into tier 1.  I think as I laid out its not difficult to fill 20 slots of your deck with spells that are extremely powerful that are also free to cast.

the turn you just ripped 3 noxious revivals in a row.

I didnt say anything about even running 3 noxious revival in a deck, but if I had a recall/time walk in hand or yard I would probably be ecstatic to draw 3 of them in a row.

[MaximumCDawg]

(1) there are a few categories of cards that I can think of that can be played for 0:

1. Phyrexian mana spells: I think its pretty much determined that the only 3 playable ones are surgical, noxious revival, and gitaxian probe, but even so I could probably find some combination of these that adds up to 6 cards, these are instants/sorceries making them combo very well with Talrand AND arcane denial.

2. Artifact mana:  Moxen, lotuses and mana crypt are in fact 0 mana.  Talrand costs 2 colorless mana and arcane denial 1 so being able to cast either one on first turn should be an ideal scenario to run a full set.

3. Easy conditional spells from Masks block:  Daze and Land Grant come to mind for this.  Daze is a very strong tempo play when you tap down for Talrand and on top of that becomes irrelevant so countering it with denial isnt a big deal late.  I dont think I would really consider land grant but its not difficult to cast for free, it can replace fetch lands, and its a sorcery.

4. Affinity spells:  I think this takes too high of an artifact count to be realistic in combination with Talrand.

5. X artifact spells:  Engineered Explosives can destroy sphere effects very efficiently which can be very important when your goal is to cast spells for free and it costs nothing at all if you want to pitch it to denial.

I wasn't really thinking about artifacts for Arcane, because I had in my head that you draw off your Arcane Denial during the opponent's end step.  That maximizes the versatility of Arcane.  On a blank board, you wait with Surgical Extraction and Denial in hand till their endstep.  Did they do something relevant you needed to Extract?  Did they cast a must-counter spell?  If not, tap 2 during the end step to cycle away a few cards you didnt need and draw 3 fresh ones, ready for use during your turn.  You can play reactive and active games at the same time using the same cards.

I really only see Surgical and Gut as reasonable options here.  Probe gives you CA normally, so seems like a bad thing to counter.  Daze (and other free counters) requires a target, so you can't do it on your own time.  Land Grant seems reliable, but it's a sorcery, giving you the same problems you have with using artifacts this way.  Engineered Explosives and cheap artifact mana do have the edge of being very powerful plays all on their own, though.

[Grand Inquisitor]

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=44390.0

Look through the Talrand list and let us know what you'd cut for these:

arcane denial, daze...Noxious revival ...Gitaxian Probe...20 slots of your deck with spells that are extremely powerful that are also free to cast.

It's not that you can't make your argument, it's that the opportunity cost of the cards your talking about make your deck bad, especially when you don't have Talrand out.

[vaughnbros]

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=44390.0

Look through the Talrand list and let us know what you'd cut for these

arcane denial, daze...Noxious revival ...Gitaxian Probe...20 slots of your deck with spells that are extremely powerful that are also free to cast.

It's not that you can't make your argument, it's that the opportunity cost of the cards your talking about make your deck bad, especially when you don't have Talrand out.

So this is THE Talrand list? No one else can apparently play anything else or it is bad.  I'm sorry, but I'm not convinced by because I said so arguments.  There are a ton of storm cards that I would have no issue at all cutting. 

Also after testing I've come to the conclusion that arcane denial doesnt really need 0 drops to make it work countering moxen that are drawn after turn 1 or 2 seems to be a pretty much all it needs.  Although daze and gitaxian probe are still insanely powerful with Talrand.

[Grand Inquisitor]

No one else can apparently play anything else or it is bad.  I'm sorry, but I'm not convinced by because I said so arguments. 

 

No, that's not what I meant.  This card is just out, so obviously there are a lot of options and unknown potential.

But claims of value are less convincing than evidence of value.  That's why starting with T8 lists is a standard form of discourse.

Instead of saying Talrand (new) is good with Gush (widely accepted).  You're pushing it with Arcane Denial (3 T8's in small tournaments in the last five years).  You deserve skepticism.  My take is as good as it may be, it's easiest to weigh it against the opportunity costs: card substitutions from another proven list.  YMMV.

[vaughnbros]

But claims of value are less convincing than evidence of value.  That's why starting with T8 lists is a standard form of discourse.

Starting with T8 decklists is fine if the deck is a proven commodity.  When your talking about 1 top 8 finish at a 44 person tournament that doesnt exactly show me much.  I know from experience that some of the decks that I've built and top 8'ed with were pretty awful, not that this talrand list is bad.  However, the list you referenced is plays very similar to a few talrand lists I was trying out previous to that top 8.  The issue with combining a full storm package with Talrand though is a terrible shops match up, however all the other match ups should be in your favor.  Choices like brain freeze, mind's desire, flusterstorm, repeal, timetwister, and regrowth are all pretty bad in that match up and against a competent shops player folding in game one is almost impossible to recover from.

Instead of saying Talrand (new) is good with Gush (widely accepted).  You're pushing it with Arcane Denial (3 T8's in small tournaments in the last five years).  You deserve skepticism.  My take is as good as it may be, it's easiest to weigh it against the opportunity costs: card substitutions from another proven list.  YMMV.

I'm of the opinion that due to the small amount of vintage that is played and the large number of cards that people can choose from that a lot of cards go over looked.  Most people do exactly what you are doing and just pull a deck off a top 8 and maybe change a few cards.  I wouldn't expect anything less than extreme skepticism thats how great ideas are developed, but what I ask of you is to refute my arguments on why the cards can't be played together not just posting a top 8 finish of a completely separate deck list.  I have studied economics and am very well aware of opportunity costs.

I'm not definitively saying that arcane denial is the card that puts Talrand over the top all I've been trying to say is it's worth exploring.  Your argument seems to me to have just been don't touch that card its really awful, but after playing with it I'd easily put arcane denial in the same power level with standstill.  

The problems I've been running into with structuring a deck around Talrand is his need for lots of instants/sorceries and to hit the table early and stay there.  This generally makes you very vulnerable to shops given that he is a 4 drop and all of their spheres hit your instants/sorceries.  Card choices like dismember, hurkyl's, nature's claim, lightning bolt and other removal spells all seem to me to be the only real options for beating shops, however too many of these cards hurts your blue match up.

So when someone refreshes my memory that there is an instant that can cycle all my sub par removal against the blue player, get value out of spells that have been hit by CotV and protect me from game ending spells for the low cost of 1U I'm going to explore that option.

Onslaught recently mentioned cobra in this forum and it could very well be a better card to overcome the shops issue, but that is another card that has recently fallen out of favor.

[Grand Inquisitor]

Starting with T8 decklists is fine if the deck is a proven commodity.  When your talking about 1 top 8 finish at a 44 person tournament that doesnt exactly show me much.

LCV is one of the best metagames in the world.  But you're right, it's still just one data point.  I'm saying this is much more compelling to me than your hand waving.  In terms of 'proven commodities' this is about 2-3/10, where as forum discussion is a 1/10.

cards go over looked.  Most people do exactly what you are doing and just pull a deck off a top 8 and maybe change a few cards.  I wouldn't expect anything less than extreme skepticism thats how great ideas are developed, but what I ask of you is to refute my arguments on why the cards can't be played together not just posting a top 8 finish of a completely separate deck list.  I have studied economics and am very well aware of opportunity costs.

I've actually played many games and even touranments with Arcane Denial and even stuff like Hatching Plans.  It's easy to imagine that all the 'established' players are just narrow-minded netdeckers.  It's not always true.

This is missing the larger point, though.  I'm not asking anyone to qualify how important this T8 is.  I'm saying that in order to understand how your deck choices might work, it's more useful to talk about it within the context of existing examples.  Which you start to do...

The issue with combining a full storm package with Talrand though is a terrible shops match up, however all the other match ups should be in your favor.  Choices like brain freeze, mind's desire, flusterstorm, repeal, timetwister, and regrowth are all pretty bad in that match up and against a competent shops player folding in game one is almost impossible to recover from.

There are two other shop decks in the T8, so I'm guessing he played and possibly beat some shops during this event.  You're right though that those (except for maybe Repeal) are not strong against shops.  He does have 8 SB slots against workshops, so this is a balanced choice on his part.

The problems I've been running into with structuring a deck around Talrand is his need for lots of instants/sorceries and to hit the table early and stay there.  This generally makes you very vulnerable to shops given that he is a 4 drop and all of their spheres hit your instants/sorceries.  Card choices like dismember, hurkyl's, nature's claim, lightning bolt and other removal spells all seem to me to be the only real options for beating shops, however too many of these cards hurts your blue match up.

I think given the large amount of creature strategies out there that lightning bolt may be a good option (it also hits JTMS).  Also, since removal of Talrand is a threat, I've been having success with Misdirection since it is good vs. everything except for workshops.

[vaughnbros]

cards go over looked.  Most people do exactly what you are doing and just pull a deck off a top 8 and maybe change a few cards.  I wouldn't expect anything less than extreme skepticism thats how great ideas are developed, but what I ask of you is to refute my arguments on why the cards can't be played together not just posting a top 8 finish of a completely separate deck list.  I have studied economics and am very well aware of opportunity costs.

I've actually played many games and even touranments with Arcane Denial and even stuff like Hatching Plans.  It's easy to imagine that all the 'established' players are just narrow-minded netdeckers.  It's not always true.

I definitely didn't use the word all.  I was just trying to point out that cards that aren't from a newer set don't generally see a resurgence of play if they leave the lime light.


This is missing the larger point, though.  I'm not asking anyone to qualify how important this T8 is.  I'm saying that in order to understand how your deck choices might work, it's more useful to talk about it within the context of existing examples.  Which you start to do...

The problems I've been running into with structuring a deck around Talrand is his need for lots of instants/sorceries and to hit the table early and stay there.  This generally makes you very vulnerable to shops given that he is a 4 drop and all of their spheres hit your instants/sorceries.  Card choices like dismember, hurkyl's, nature's claim, lightning bolt and other removal spells all seem to me to be the only real options for beating shops, however too many of these cards hurts your blue match up.

I think given the large amount of creature strategies out there that lightning bolt may be a good option (it also hits JTMS).  Also, since removal of Talrand is a threat, I've been having success with Misdirection since it is good vs. everything except for workshops.

Yes bolt is much more versatile than the other removal spells, but it requires red.  I think gush pretty much needs to be played with Talrand, but I'm always hesitant to go to a 4 color mana base, so a RUG storm deck possibly?  Past in flames can act in place of yawg will to recur gushes the only real loss would be tutors.

[boggyb]

(Past in Flames can't recur Gushes.)

[Bill Copes]

Here's what I've been messing with.  Perhaps you guys have some suggestions.  Game one looks weak to shops, but I'm hoping the Cobras negate that a tad.  Post board you should eat them, bringing in about 8 cards.

Snake 'n Drake 1.1

4 Scalding Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Island
1 Volcanic Island

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire

4 Lotus Cobra
3 Talrand, Sky Summoner
2 Talrand, Sky Summoner

3  Jace, the Mindsculptor

4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
3 Spell Pierce
2 Mana Drain
2 Mental Misstep
1 Flusterstorm


4 Gush
2 Preordain
3 Preordain
1 Ponder
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Time Walk
1 Brainstorm
1 Fastbond
1 Nature’s Claim
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Tendrils of Agony

SB:

3 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Yixlid Jailer
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Nature’s Claim
1 Flusterstorm
1 Hurkyl’s Recall
1 Mountain


Step 1:  Cobra-lalalalalalalalalalalalal

Step 2:  Preordain, ponder, recall, or brainstorm an idea -- or perhaps learn something from a tutor.

Step 3a:  SNAKE AND DRAKE

Step 3b:  Stick a Jace in their Face

Step 4:  WIN


Let me know if this needs any clarification.

[serracollector]

I really like the list copes.  I opted for the non black version, and up'd my utility maindeck to help vs MUD at least a little bit, with Grudge, Hurks, Bolts, and a few 3+ power creatures maindeck, along with 3 basic lands.  Here is my list for reference.

3 Talrand, Sky Summoner
4 Gush
1 Fastbond
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Fire // Ice
4 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
4 Lotus Cobra
1 Brainstorm
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Ponder
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Lotus Petal
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
2 Mental Misstep
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Sulfur Elemental
3 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island
3 Island
1 Regrowth
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain

SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 3 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Ancient Grudge
SB: 2 Nature's Claim
SB: 1 Echoing Truth
SB: 2 Rough // Tumble

So far its been quite nice, and haven't missed the black tutors at all.

[Bill Copes]

I like what you've done there in the main, but I must a ask:

1 Sulfur Elemental

I'm assuming it's a meta thing for Thalia-based decks?  If that's the case, why not just run Bolt #3?

[serracollector]

It stops avens, thalia's, and pridemages (becoming 4/2 instead of 3/3 when swinging, thus killable by drakes), also, its an "uncounterable" bolt for the likes of Jace.  I have flashed him in EOT to take out jace on more than 1 occasion.