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ramrodjon
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« Reply #30 on: July 06, 2012, 08:32:49 pm » |
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I voted $50+ because hopefully the prize support, security, and event location would all benefit from the added dough. I work a crazy swing-shift schedule, but if I knew the date in advance, I would definitely make this part of my scheduled vacation time! Sounds like it would be a blast, and I could see myself driving 4-5 hours from NEPA and hoteling it, even. That's how Ramrod rolls!
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I hear the train a'comin'...it's rolling round the bend.
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voltron00x
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« Reply #31 on: July 06, 2012, 08:54:06 pm » |
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I voted $50 as well. I think in NJ, announced far enough in advance, you can be confident that with the right prize support, you'll pull minimum 100 people, so that immediately gives you some serious cash to play with at that entry fee level.
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“Win as if you were used to it, lose as if you enjoyed it for a change.”
Team East Coast Wins
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Smmenen
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« Reply #32 on: July 06, 2012, 09:14:41 pm » |
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I voted for $50+. If I can make it to this, the entry fee is the least of my costs.
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Ten-Ten
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Shalom Aleichem
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« Reply #33 on: July 07, 2012, 01:31:06 am » |
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I voted for $50+. If I can make it to this, the entry fee is the least of my costs.
Bamm! (What they said.^^^) |
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Colossians 2:2,3
That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, both of the Father, and of Christ; In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
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scapegoat
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« Reply #34 on: July 07, 2012, 05:58:23 am » |
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Great idea! Since I'm a little too far from the tournament location and wouldn't be able to attend this, I would gladly donate my $50+ entre fee for a fellow Vintage player, if that makes him change his mind and support an awesome event like that.
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quicksilvervii
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There will be water if Ka wills it.
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« Reply #35 on: July 07, 2012, 11:44:23 am » |
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I voted for $50+. If I can make it to this, the entry fee is the least of my costs.
That was exactly what I was going to post. Just charge $50 and give away some baller prizes. I will drag a ton of folks along with me. This. Are people really not going to go because of the difference of 40 and 50 dollars for admission? The idea that 10$ is going to keep someone from coming is absurd to me. Sure, it's money, but skip eating out for lunch one day or something. |
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When there is no wind, row.
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Meddling Mike
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« Reply #36 on: July 08, 2012, 08:11:06 am » |
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This. Are people really not going to go because of the difference of 40 and 50 dollars for admission?
The idea that 10$ is going to keep someone from coming is absurd to me. Sure, it's money, but skip eating out for lunch one day or something.
I mean, I think that when considering this you should probably consider the audience. I'd imagine that for people on these boards $50 for some strong prize support is whatever, but it's definitely a deterrent to random locals that you may want to pick up. If it were like $10-30 I think people could justify proxying some power in their legacy deck and giving it a whirl if they don't have to travel/get a hotel. $50 bucks is more than most people would want to invest on a whim. Putting the shoe on the other foot, even if there was a very large standard tournament in my backyard and a friend was willing to loan me a tier 2-3 deck and me having no experience with the format a $50 entry would probably be a dealbreaker for me, but for like $20 I can sort of mentally write it off as an entertainment expense without being upset about it. If Nick can make an event enticing enough to bring people from all over to play then he can afford to lose locals who might have signed up on a whim at a lower entry fee, but it's still something he needs to consider and those types of people are unlikely to be posting/voting in this thread. |
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Meddling Mike posts so loudly that nobody can get a post in edgewise.
Team TMD - If you feel that team secrecy is bad for Vintage put this in your signature
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TheWhiteDragon
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« Reply #37 on: July 08, 2012, 04:58:51 pm » |
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$50 is a good chunk of change. For that amount, I'd expect full unlimited P9 + all dual lands playset for 1st, Lotus+big blue+Time Vault+all dual lands playset for 2nd, 5 moxen + all dual lands playset for 3rd/4th, big blue + all dual lands playset for 5th/6th, time vault + all dual lands playset for 7th/8th, and then all dual lands playset for 9-12, drains + FoWs for 13-16, and 1 mox for 17-32.
Stop trolling.
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Prospero
Aequitas
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« Reply #38 on: July 08, 2012, 05:48:35 pm » |
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$50 is a good chunk of change. For that amount, I'd expect full unlimited P9 + all dual lands playset for 1st, Lotus+big blue+Time Vault+all dual lands playset for 2nd, 5 moxen + all dual lands playset for 3rd/4th, big blue + all dual lands playset for 5th/6th, time vault + all dual lands playset for 7th/8th, and then all dual lands playset for 9-12, drains + FoWs for 13-16, and 1 mox for 17-32.
Consider the following: Black Lotus - $850 Ancestral Recall - $350 Time Walk - $325 Timetwister - $175 Mox Sapphire - $400 Mox Jet - $350 Mox Ruby - $325 Mox Emerald - $325 Mox Pearl - $325 Total: $3425 Underground Sea - $90 per Tropical Island - $80 per Tundra - $80 per Volcanic Island - $65 per Total: $1560 Let's just average out all the other duals and call them $50 apiece. Total: $1200 Mana Drain (English) - $80 per Force of Will - $40 So, your suggested first place prize is worth $6,185. You have an additional cost of the venue, which you believe will run you between $1,000-$1,500 for the day. Let's call it $1,200, and say that you ended up with a good deal. This now brings your total to $7,385. Your second place prize is about $3,660, so your cost is now about $11,045. You're giving out $3,485 each for third and fourth, which brings your total to $14,530. You're giving out $2,610 to fifth and sixth, bringing your total to $19,750. Seventh and eighth will run about $2,000 per, bringing your total to $23,750. Ninth through twelfth will run you $7,040, which will push you to $30,790. Thirteenth through sixteenth will run you about $1,920, pushing your total to $32,710. Seventeenth through thirty second will run you about $5,600, pushing your total to $38,310. The biggest North American Vintage tournament in the last couple of years that I remember was GenCon, which cracked 140. But let's say that you break that, wildly, and end up with 200 players. This amounts to $10,000 in cash, netting you more than a $28,000 loss. The most offensive part of your post isn't your math, which wasn't performed, but that you would even suggest something so wildly impossible in the current American Vintage scene as to degrade an honest effort to do a real service to the community. Only you and a government employee would suggest numbers like that. There are a lot of different people in this world, but it basically boils down to people who enjoy building and people who enjoy tearing things down. If your intention was to come in, say something offensive and scurry out, please find somewhere else to participate, as we have absolutely no use for that, or you, if you choose to be that way, on TMD. |
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TheWhiteDragon
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« Reply #39 on: July 08, 2012, 06:57:17 pm » |
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$50 is a good chunk of change. For that amount, I'd expect full unlimited P9 + all dual lands playset for 1st, Lotus+big blue+Time Vault+all dual lands playset for 2nd, 5 moxen + all dual lands playset for 3rd/4th, big blue + all dual lands playset for 5th/6th, time vault + all dual lands playset for 7th/8th, and then all dual lands playset for 9-12, drains + FoWs for 13-16, and 1 mox for 17-32.
Consider the following: Black Lotus - $850 Ancestral Recall - $350 Time Walk - $325 Timetwister - $175 Mox Sapphire - $400 Mox Jet - $350 Mox Ruby - $325 Mox Emerald - $325 Mox Pearl - $325 Total: $3425 Underground Sea - $90 per Tropical Island - $80 per Tundra - $80 per Volcanic Island - $65 per Total: $1560 Let's just average out all the other duals and call them $50 apiece. Total: $1200 Mana Drain (English) - $80 per Force of Will - $40 So, your suggested first place prize is worth $6,185. You have an additional cost of the venue, which you believe will run you between $1,000-$1,500 for the day. Let's call it $1,200, and say that you ended up with a good deal. This now brings your total to $7,385. Your second place prize is about $3,660, so your cost is now about $11,045. You're giving out $3,485 each for third and fourth, which brings your total to $14,530. You're giving out $2,610 to fifth and sixth, bringing your total to $19,750. Seventh and eighth will run about $2,000 per, bringing your total to $23,750. Ninth through twelfth will run you $7,040, which will push you to $30,790. Thirteenth through sixteenth will run you about $1,920, pushing your total to $32,710. Seventeenth through thirty second will run you about $5,600, pushing your total to $38,310. The biggest North American Vintage tournament in the last couple of years that I remember was GenCon, which cracked 140. But let's say that you break that, wildly, and end up with 200 players. This amounts to $10,000 in cash, netting you more than a $28,000 loss. The most offensive part of your post isn't your math, which wasn't performed, but that you would even suggest something so wildly impossible in the current American Vintage scene as to degrade an honest effort to do a real service to the community. Only you and a government employee would suggest numbers like that. There are a lot of different people in this world, but it basically boils down to people who enjoy building and people who enjoy tearing things down. If your intention was to come in, say something offensive and scurry out, please find somewhere else to participate, as we have absolutely no use for that, or you, if you choose to be that way, on TMD. I didn't exactly do the math...but just saying Sunday 20th may VINTAGE MAIN: Vintage@BOM6, more than 30 P9 pieces, mana drains, Bazaars of Bagdhad and a lot more to win. Prizes for top 32 ! Entry Fee : 30€. Registration : 7h30 - Round 1 : 9h00 PREREGISTRATION 1: Full POWER 9 (unlim) (black lotus, all 5 mox, ancestral recall time walk and time twister) 2: 5 Moxes (one of each) 3: Big Blue (Ancestrall recal + Time walk + Time twister) 4: Big Blue (Ancestrall recal + Time walk + Time twister) 5: 2 mox 6: 2 mox 7: 2 mox 8: 2 mox 9: 1 Mox 10: 1 Mox 11: 1 Mox 12: 1 Mox 13: 1 Bazaar of Baghdad 14: 1 Bazaar of Baghdad 15: 1 Bazaar of Baghdad 16: 1 Bazaar of Baghdad 17: 1 Mana Crypt 18: 1 Mana Crypt 19: 1 Mana Crypt 20: 1 Mana Crypt 21: 1 Mana Crypt 22: 1 Mana Crypt 23: 1 Mana Crypt 24: 1 Mana Crypt 25: 1 dual land 26: 1 dual land 27: 1 dual land 28: 1 dual land 29: 1 dual land 30: 1 dual land 31: 1 dual land 32: 1 dual land Unpow: 1 : Ancestral Recall 2 : Bazaar of baghdad 3 : Mana drain VI 4 : Mana Drain VI 5 : 1 Dual Land 6 : 1 Dual Land 7 : 1 Dual Land 8 : 1 Dual Land Budgets: 1 : Mox unlimited 2 : Mana Drain VI 3 : 1 Dual Land I was being facetious with my prize suggestion....obviously THAT kind of prize support would even make BoM look like FNM at a Arizona game shop. But, in seriousness, I do think prizes need to go from 1-32 and be comparable to what BoM is doing. Yes, you may just barely break even, but you might make a smidge of a profit. You say Gencon has the record for attendance, but the prizes for that was some shitty drawing and a blowjob from Garfield's grandma. Hardly an enticing support. Yes, many players love to play and would plop down $100 for the chance to play and a pack of Bazooka Joe, but MANY more people actually want some monetary value for their effort. I live in TX, for example. A trip to NJ to play in a tourney at anything less than the P9, and I'm not getting out of bed for it. You want to bring people from across America and perhaps Europe? Make it worth their while. If you expect people to flood New England for the prize support of an NYSE, and you're dreaming. And my tenure at the IRS should NOT be called into question  |
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TheProfessor
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« Reply #40 on: July 08, 2012, 07:56:36 pm » |
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I live in Louisiana and would make the trip to NJ to play if first prize was only a Lotus, pending that it doesnt cut into my classes.
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I put my Wastelands and Force of Wills in a pitcher and tried to pour them in a cup...... I really didn't see any type of liquidity.
Clearly we need to restrict Lodestone Golem, as he's oppressing the field.
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Thecheese
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« Reply #41 on: July 08, 2012, 10:20:25 pm » |
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I live in Louisiana and would make the trip to NJ to play if first prize was only a Lotus, pending that it doesnt cut into my classes.
Your in luck top deck games is running a lotus event in August. See you there? @whitedragon, I'm sure bom did not start with that type of prize payout in the beginning. @prospero......not all of us government mployees are bad with math. |
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Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely. And Rhaegar died. - Ser Jorah
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metalhead666
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« Reply #42 on: July 08, 2012, 10:31:57 pm » |
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$50 is a good chunk of change. For that amount, I'd expect full unlimited P9 + all dual lands playset for 1st, Lotus+big blue+Time Vault+all dual lands playset for 2nd, 5 moxen + all dual lands playset for 3rd/4th, big blue + all dual lands playset for 5th/6th, time vault + all dual lands playset for 7th/8th, and then all dual lands playset for 9-12, drains + FoWs for 13-16, and 1 mox for 17-32.
Consider the following: Black Lotus - $850 Ancestral Recall - $350 Time Walk - $325 Timetwister - $175 Mox Sapphire - $400 Mox Jet - $350 Mox Ruby - $325 Mox Emerald - $325 Mox Pearl - $325 Total: $3425 Underground Sea - $90 per Tropical Island - $80 per Tundra - $80 per Volcanic Island - $65 per Total: $1560 Let's just average out all the other duals and call them $50 apiece. Total: $1200 Mana Drain (English) - $80 per Force of Will - $40 So, your suggested first place prize is worth $6,185. You have an additional cost of the venue, which you believe will run you between $1,000-$1,500 for the day. Let's call it $1,200, and say that you ended up with a good deal. This now brings your total to $7,385. Your second place prize is about $3,660, so your cost is now about $11,045. You're giving out $3,485 each for third and fourth, which brings your total to $14,530. You're giving out $2,610 to fifth and sixth, bringing your total to $19,750. Seventh and eighth will run about $2,000 per, bringing your total to $23,750. Ninth through twelfth will run you $7,040, which will push you to $30,790. Thirteenth through sixteenth will run you about $1,920, pushing your total to $32,710. Seventeenth through thirty second will run you about $5,600, pushing your total to $38,310. The biggest North American Vintage tournament in the last couple of years that I remember was GenCon, which cracked 140. But let's say that you break that, wildly, and end up with 200 players. This amounts to $10,000 in cash, netting you more than a $28,000 loss. The most offensive part of your post isn't your math, which wasn't performed, but that you would even suggest something so wildly impossible in the current American Vintage scene as to degrade an honest effort to do a real service to the community. Only you and a government employee would suggest numbers like that. There are a lot of different people in this world, but it basically boils down to people who enjoy building and people who enjoy tearing things down. If your intention was to come in, say something offensive and scurry out, please find somewhere else to participate, as we have absolutely no use for that, or you, if you choose to be that way, on TMD. I didn't exactly do the math...but just saying Sunday 20th may VINTAGE MAIN: Vintage@BOM6, more than 30 P9 pieces, mana drains, Bazaars of Bagdhad and a lot more to win. Prizes for top 32 ! Entry Fee : 30€. Registration : 7h30 - Round 1 : 9h00 PREREGISTRATION 1: Full POWER 9 (unlim) (black lotus, all 5 mox, ancestral recall time walk and time twister) 2: 5 Moxes (one of each) 3: Big Blue (Ancestrall recal + Time walk + Time twister) 4: Big Blue (Ancestrall recal + Time walk + Time twister) 5: 2 mox 6: 2 mox 7: 2 mox 8: 2 mox 9: 1 Mox 10: 1 Mox 11: 1 Mox 12: 1 Mox 13: 1 Bazaar of Baghdad 14: 1 Bazaar of Baghdad 15: 1 Bazaar of Baghdad 16: 1 Bazaar of Baghdad 17: 1 Mana Crypt 18: 1 Mana Crypt 19: 1 Mana Crypt 20: 1 Mana Crypt 21: 1 Mana Crypt 22: 1 Mana Crypt 23: 1 Mana Crypt 24: 1 Mana Crypt 25: 1 dual land 26: 1 dual land 27: 1 dual land 28: 1 dual land 29: 1 dual land 30: 1 dual land 31: 1 dual land 32: 1 dual land Unpow: 1 : Ancestral Recall 2 : Bazaar of baghdad 3 : Mana drain VI 4 : Mana Drain VI 5 : 1 Dual Land 6 : 1 Dual Land 7 : 1 Dual Land 8 : 1 Dual Land Budgets: 1 : Mox unlimited 2 : Mana Drain VI 3 : 1 Dual Land I was being facetious with my prize suggestion....obviously THAT kind of prize support would even make BoM look like FNM at a Arizona game shop. But, in seriousness, I do think prizes need to go from 1-32 and be comparable to what BoM is doing. Yes, you may just barely break even, but you might make a smidge of a profit. You say Gencon has the record for attendance, but the prizes for that was some shitty drawing and a blowjob from Garfield's grandma. Hardly an enticing support. Yes, many players love to play and would plop down $100 for the chance to play and a pack of Bazooka Joe, but MANY more people actually want some monetary value for their effort. I live in TX, for example. A trip to NJ to play in a tourney at anything less than the P9, and I'm not getting out of bed for it. You want to bring people from across America and perhaps Europe? Make it worth their while. If you expect people to flood New England for the prize support of an NYSE, and you're dreaming. And my tenure at the IRS should NOT be called into question I would love to see prizes go out to the top 32 players but highly doubt this tournament would pull in enough money to make it happen. You quoted BOM's prize support for this year, the 6th year of that tournament, one that has grown substantially year to year, even they started small (the first year only had one Vintage event with a relatively small turnout for their standards). I do believe that at some point in the future a tournament in America could support a prize support like that, especially if this becomes an annual tournament (which I would love to see), but we, as a community, need to show TOs that we can support prize structures like BOM's before they are willing to shell out the cash for all of those prizes. I believe that a scaled prize structure would be the best option for everyone. It would mean that the TO wouldnt lose money if the turnout was small and would prompt players to get their friends to come out and play in order to boost the prizes up. I would suggest holding this tournament in late May or June instead of the spring. This would get around the college semester, which can make it very hard for many players to attend event. What about that church in Edison, NJ as a venue? It's pretty safe area that is pretty central and easy to get to from every direction. |
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Bill Copes
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« Reply #43 on: July 09, 2012, 08:41:24 am » |
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It depends where it's held. I voted $40 but if the my travel costs had to include a plane/hotel it rapidly becomes more worthwhile to just buy the cards I want outright.
It should be more about playing in the event than what you walk away with! If that were true, would you pay $30 for a large tournament with no prize support at all and just bragging rights? I voted $40 - good shot at prizes and a fair price value. Yep, I would. Also, you missed the point. |
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I'm the only other legal target, so I draw 6 cards, and he literally quits Magic. Terrorists searching in vain for these powerful weapons have the saying "Bill Copes spitteth, and he taketh away." Team TMD |
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mikekilljoy
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« Reply #44 on: July 09, 2012, 10:03:28 am » |
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I would suggest holding this tournament in late May or June instead of the spring. This would get around the college semester, which can make it very hard for many players to attend event.
What about that church in Edison, NJ as a venue? It's pretty safe area that is pretty central and easy to get to from every direction.
Not to speak for Nick on these topics, but he was speaking to me about both of these on Saturday, so I think it would happen this way. |
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Prospero
Aequitas
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« Reply #45 on: July 09, 2012, 10:58:29 am » |
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Yes, the church center in Edison is the venue that I had in mind, as I had discussed with Bauer and others this weekend.
I'm still trying to work on all the numbers for prize support, but I should have a rough idea what good support would run me sometime soon. I'll put up the various options on TMD a little later, either today, or this week.
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Thecheese
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« Reply #46 on: July 09, 2012, 04:14:12 pm » |
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Maybe you could get sponsorship from vendors. They could ornate some prize support.
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Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely. And Rhaegar died. - Ser Jorah
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TheProfessor
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« Reply #47 on: July 10, 2012, 07:58:59 am » |
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I live in Louisiana and would make the trip to NJ to play if first prize was only a Lotus, pending that it doesnt cut into my classes.
Your in luck top deck games is running a lotus event in August. See you there? Would love to go, and would definitely make the trip, but I already planned on going to GenCon in August. Next year I will plan my vacation(s) out farther in advance and possibly travel for multiple large tournaments. |
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I put my Wastelands and Force of Wills in a pitcher and tried to pour them in a cup...... I really didn't see any type of liquidity.
Clearly we need to restrict Lodestone Golem, as he's oppressing the field.
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KingSquee
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« Reply #48 on: July 10, 2012, 02:44:52 pm » |
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I'd probably play regardless of entry fee, but I voted for the $50 max entry. Constructed GP's are averaging around $40 entry these days and I'd be cautious about going much higher. I'd imagine there would be oodles of side events to help bring in more revenue. Also, I know this is just one layman's opinion, but I really do not like that church for PTQ-sized events, which is what this will hopefully be. Seating is often way too cramped. Does anybody know how much that basement can comfortably accommodate, with "comfortable" defined as no more than two matches to a 6 ft. table, or three matches to an 8 ft. table? Not to mention the bathrooms are terrible, and the support posts always get in people's way, and it's never quite the right temperature down there. But I'm not going to just complain without suggesting some alternatives: Um, maybe. It turns out the Rexplex (site of GP Affinity '04) right by Newark Airport is now closed.  Well, there's also the site of GP NJ '06 in Toms River, but that may be a pain to get to. Or maybe where the last SCG event in Edison was held, the Raritan Center I think? Close proximity to Harold's! |
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Champion: NEV 2, NYSE 7, Games and Stuff May 2014 Finalist: NEV 7, TDG February 2014 Top 4: 2011 Vintage Champs, NEV Championship, a few other events. Top 8: 2010 Vintage Champs, MVPLS Invitational, a bunch of other events. Top 9: 2012 Legacy Champs, countless other events... |
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metalhead666
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« Reply #49 on: July 10, 2012, 04:29:11 pm » |
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I'd probably play regardless of entry fee, but I voted for the $50 max entry. Constructed GP's are averaging around $40 entry these days and I'd be cautious about going much higher. I'd imagine there would be oodles of side events to help bring in more revenue. Also, I know this is just one layman's opinion, but I really do not like that church for PTQ-sized events, which is what this will hopefully be. Seating is often way too cramped. Does anybody know how much that basement can comfortably accommodate, with "comfortable" defined as no more than two matches to a 6 ft. table, or three matches to an 8 ft. table? Not to mention the bathrooms are terrible, and the support posts always get in people's way, and it's never quite the right temperature down there. But I'm not going to just complain without suggesting some alternatives: Um, maybe. It turns out the Rexplex (site of GP Affinity '04) right by Newark Airport is now closed. Well, there's also the site of GP NJ '06 in Toms River, but that may be a pain to get to. Or maybe where the last SCG event in Edison was held, the Raritan Center I think? Close proximity to Harold's! I believe that the church can hold several hundred people. I remember being at PTQs in the 200-300 range for attendance and not being cramped, as well as a couple of Nick Coss's events there that had around 100 for vintage and 150+ for standard and it being more than spacious for those. |
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GrandpaBelcher
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« Reply #50 on: July 27, 2012, 03:18:08 pm » |
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I voted for $50 and Top 32.
However, I would not travel to any event of this caliber that decided to run proxies. It's either Sanctioned Vintage, or none at all. I would rather not travel 3000 miles only to play against someone's Shop decks with basic PlainsMishra's Workshop and get trashed.
I'd be fine with this if there were significant considerations (multiple prizes) for unpowered decks. |
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infant_no_1
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« Reply #51 on: July 27, 2012, 04:51:01 pm » |
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I would try to come up from Dallas. Chances are I could drag a few others with me.
I voted for $50, but if I made it up there I don't think I'd care about the entry fee.
I would love to see this.
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thebliff
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« Reply #52 on: July 27, 2012, 06:05:39 pm » |
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The church in Edison is probably the best bet. They have had many many MTG tournaments there over the years.
I think $50+ is more than reasonable. You need to get people's attention who don't already play Vintage and/or live in the Northeast. Having a relatively low cost to get into a deck combined with very large prize support is certainly a way to do that. Making it an entire weekend might help get people who don't want to fly in just for one day.
If its not obvious I'm totally in. I also live under your bed......
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Poll
