[Premium Article] So Many Insane Plays: The Return of Burning Long!

[bax]

Unfortunately, and this is sad to say it, but Vintage is pretty much dead or dying in almost every region from what I've been seeing.  There has literally been one 11 person tournament within 3 hours of me in the last two months. Has there been a tournament of more than 30 players in the United States in the last two months?  More than one in the world?   If I had tournaments nearby, I know I'd be playing this every weekend.    

Just in Italy:

Oct. 7th: Acqualanga 44 ppl
Oct. 14th: Milan 24 ppl
Oct. 21st: Florence 40 ppl
Nov. 4th: Milan 23 ppl (was a long bank holidays week end so many people were away)
Nov. 18th: Florence 25 ppl
Nov. 18th Acqualagna: 42 ppl

Next week end (Nov. 25th) we have both Milan and Florence and expecte respectively (30ish and 40ish people respectively)

I will chek the amount of Burning Wish decks in T8, if any.
EDIT: Checked, no Burning Wish deck in top8 of any of the above (but we had one Grow & and Cobra Gush Storm deck)

[PeAcH]

Quote from: Smmenen on Yesterday at 10:36:23 PM

Unfortunately, and this is sad to say it, but Vintage is pretty much dead or dying in almost every region from what I've been seeing.  There has literally been one 11 person tournament within 3 hours of me in the last two months. Has there been a tournament of more than 30 players in the United States in the last two months?  More than one in the world?   If I had tournaments nearby, I know I'd be playing this every weekend.   

Regarding the decrease in the attendance in the format, the truth is that the LCV  in Spain has been hosting tournament on a monthly basis in Barcelona with an attendance of 50 players as you can see from the following figures:

January: 58
February: 52
March: 52
April:48
May:47
June: 42
July:44
August:50
September: 52
October: 53

This is the 8th year of the LCV and we have experienced a decrease in attendance as everywhere else, but we are really happy on maintaining a 50 person attendance on a monthly basis.

Additionally, if you want to check Vintage results, apart from using Morphilng.de, you can check TC Decks where you will find all the European Tournaments as well as the American ones:

http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/formato.php?format=Vintage

[Lemnear]

Steve, with all given respect, counting Top 8 placements in tournaments with 9-13 participants is a bit off

[Smmenen]

Yeah, but until I can participate in larger tournaments, that's probably what we'll see for a while.  This deck may not put up big numbers until I have a chance to show it off under tournament conditions.   There has literally been one tournament anywhere near me since this deck has been legal.   If there had been more - or a big tournament in the near future --  I probably would not have unveiled it. 

If I were to do some matchup analysis articles to illustrate how games should play out, and explain how to play this deck well, which matchups are people most interested in reading about? 

[A.-1.]

I would like to see matchup analysis of this deck versus either UR Landstill, any Shop variant, or Noble Fish.

[Smmenen]

Landstill and Fish aren't in every metagame or are niche in some metagames, so I'll do a matchup article looking at the Workshop matchup,with an emphasis on what happens when you are on the draw.  Thanks for the suggestion. 

[A.-1.]

Very true. I only listed Landstill and Fish because of my own personal curiosity. I would like to see how a veteran of this archetype would tackle what I would consider tough matchups. I haven't been able to pull the trigger and play Burning Tendrils in a tournament knowing that those decks are both present here.

The Shop matchup will certainly be just as informative. Those of us here the Northeast would greatly appreciate the analysis.

[bax]

Steven - i promised i would have said it when this archetype woudl have made results in this side of the world and yesterday your deck (i think very a very close build if not the same) has won the tournament in Milan yesterday (26 people).
TO Report is in italian, but the lists of the top8 (amazing variaty btw) are in english - http://www.tipo1.it/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30244 (soon lists would be on tcdecks too) .

Last Thursday i was playtesting vs the guy that actually won yesterday. I was playing kuldotha and i was impressed how well this deck can deal with MUD if played properly.  

And seems real fun to play too!

[Smmenen]

Indeed!  Make sure that those results are reported to Morphling.de!

On the MUD matchup, I wrote an article recently just on that subject!  http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=44798.0

[AmbivalentDuck]

Yeah, but until I can participate in larger tournaments, that's probably what we'll see for a while.  This deck may not put up big numbers until I have a chance to show it off under tournament conditions.   There has literally been one tournament anywhere near me since this deck has been legal.   If there had been more - or a big tournament in the near future --  I probably would not have unveiled it.

Nothing stops you from setting up an online tourney. Weekly, monthly, yearly, whatever.

The weekly weren't that much work, I just got swamped and had too many other things on my mind.

[Cruel Ultimatum]

Very true. I only listed Landstill and Fish because of my own personal curiosity. I would like to see how a veteran of this archetype would tackle what I would consider tough matchups. I haven't been able to pull the trigger and play Burning Tendrils in a tournament knowing that those decks are both present here.

The Shop matchup will certainly be just as informative. Those of us here the Northeast would greatly appreciate the analysis.

Prior experience with storm would say that fish is a bye and standstill is basically impossible. Although oaths certainly make the standstill matchup a little better.

[A.-1.]

Prior experience with storm would say that fish is a bye and standstill is basically impossible. Although oaths certainly make the standstill matchup a little better.

Those were my exact same assumptions before picking up this deck and testing some, but...

...I lost to Stony Silence Fish in a very close match, despite it probably being my worst matchup...

I can't say for certain that SS Fish is the worst matchup, but it is definitely not a bye. In my limited testing with this deck against SS Fish, I would call the matchup unfavorable at the very least. I would agree with your statement about Landstill though. Potucek's series of games against Shay seems about right.

[Stormanimagus]

Prior experience with storm would say that fish is a bye and standstill is basically impossible. Although oaths certainly make the standstill matchup a little better.

Those were my exact same assumptions before picking up this deck and testing some, but...

...I lost to Stony Silence Fish in a very close match, despite it probably being my worst matchup...

I can't say for certain that SS Fish is the worst matchup, but it is definitely not a bye. In my limited testing with this deck against SS Fish, I would call the matchup unfavorable at the very least. I would agree with your statement about Landstill though. Potucek's series of games against Shay seems about right.

Agreed that stony silence fish is not a bye for storm. I have been piloting human fish sporting stony silences for a while now and it has been beating a lot of different decks in the field. Lightning Bolt x4 doesn't even seem to stop me. Here's a list for people's reference. If you're at all curious about the archetype PM me and I'll give you a strengths/weaknesses breakdown and a match-up breakdown as well.

Human Knight Blowout!

4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Dark Confidant
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
4 Windswept Heath
3 Savannah
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Bayou
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Black Lotus
3 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mayor of Avabruck
3 Glowrider
3 Stony Silence
1 Lotus Petal
1 Scrubland
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Mox Ruby

SB: 3 Kataki, War's Wage
SB: 1 Ghost Quarter
SB: 4 Fiend Hunter
SB: 1 Forest
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 1 Stony Silence
SB: 1 Plains

-Storm

[covetousrat]

Steve,

Have you or eternalcentral considered in lowering the price for the older articles after a certain period of time (eg 3 months) or so for casual gamers like me who don't even play magic anymore? I have been a huge fan of yours since the starcitygames days.

I have bought your gush book and totally happy about it. I am really interested in your Doomsday and Burning long articles. However, it seems that there are so many articles that needs to purchased.

Will there be any promotions eg. a compilation of all your Doomsday articles for a cheaper price / lowering the price after a x months period or price reduction in second article etc?

Cheers.

[Smmenen]

We did lower the price of this article after two months by a buck, and have typically gone back and lowered prices over time.  For the Doomsday articles (both Vintage and Legacy) we created a combo package at a reduced rate -- ditto Innistrad Block set reviews.   We typically do go back and lower prices over time. 

Thanks for the feedback. 

[covetousrat]

Thanks bought the Doomsday combo pack.

[Smmenen]

I won the team serious open with this deck.

[Metman]

I won the team serious open with this deck.

I'm assuming you will be writing up a report chalked full of analysis, insight, and some gloating.

[Smmenen]

Likely

[emidln]

This deck won an event in Hanau over the weekend.

http://pmtg-forum.de/wbb2/thread.php?threadid=7964&threadview=0&hilight=&hilightuser=0&page=3

Interestingly enough, an Oath-Tendrils-Will deck also won a 100+ person highland event at the same site.

[Smmenen]

Thanks for sharing this.   I think what I'm most pleased with is that folks are finally learning how to play this deck.  It seems like people are finally learning the skill set this deck demands.  That's three tournament victories for this deck in December, including the Milano someone posted above, and multiple top 8s. 

[Stormanimagus]

Thanks for sharing this.   I think what I'm most pleased with is that folks are finally learning how to play this deck.  It seems like people are finally learning the skill set this deck demands.  That's three tournament victories for this deck in December, including the Milano someone posted above, and multiple top 8s. 

Stephen, I'm curious. How many Chrome moxen are you currently running? I find that the card disadvantage of that card tends to make it prohibitive and that running a full set makes you often have to go all in on a draw 7 resolving. I also don't love the weakness to chalice @0, Null Rod, Stony Silence and most importantly, Phyrexian Revoker, that Chrome Mox opens you up to. Thoughts on that card? Should it be run at all? If so, how many?

-Storm

[Smmenen]

This deck won an event in Hanau over the weekend.

http://pmtg-forum.de/wbb2/thread.php?threadid=7964&threadview=0&hilight=&hilightuser=0&page=3

Interestingly enough, an Oath-Tendrils-Will deck also won a 100+ person highland event at the same site.

For those who are lazy, there were 68 players:

Vintage Top8 Decklisten

1. Jan Zuskac

1 Black Lotus
2 Chrome Mox
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Memory Jar
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
2 Mox Opal
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring

2 Griselbrand

1 Necropotence
4 Oath of Druids
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
4 Dark Ritual
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Vampiric Tutor

4 City of Brass
4 Forbidden Orchard
2 Gemstone Mine
1 Tolarian Academy

4 Burning Wish
1 Demonic Tutor
4 Duress
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Mind's Desire
1 Ponder
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 Tinker
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Windfall

Sideboard:
1 Laboratory Maniac
1 Nature's Claim
2 Ancient Tomb
1 Balance
1 Diminishing Returns
1 Empty the Warrens
4 Shattering Spree
1 Show and Tell
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Thoughtseize
1 Yawgmoth's Will

Apparently ZUZY played the deck out of my matchup article.  

That's quite a run -- this deck won three tournaments in December:  The Hanau, the Milano, and the Team Serious Open.  It also got 3rd place at a "Nebraska" (some place in Europe) tournament here: http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=9745  

EDIT: Morphling.de posted the Hanau results here: http://www.morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=1683

[Nastaboi]

I played the exact list in Hanau, was 4-1, could not draw in and had to play, and lost against Snapcaster control. My another loss was against Dregde, where I kept hands that relied on Oath, and he had Darkblast to keep it never triggering. I felt that with just a little tighter play those both matches could have been winnable.

[Stormanimagus]

May I just ask: When does the maniac kill come in? It seems so very random to run it as you don't win the turn you oath him up unless he's the last card in your deck so using him for speed makes no sense. What is he useful for?

-Storm

[JACO]

May I just ask: When does the maniac kill come in? It seems so very random to run it as you don't win the turn you oath him up unless he's the last card in your deck so using him for speed makes no sense. What is he useful for?

-Storm

This is answered very in depth with in-game examples in the articles, along with when and why you would use Maniac.

[Smmenen]

Yeah, that's something I address in both the matchup article, but with especially specific guidelines in my tournament report.

On another note, I'm glad people seem to be enjoying my creation here.  It's great to have put Rituals back in the map

[covetousrat]

Any free articles coming up? Just bought the Doomsday and this last week. Don't feel like paying anymore soon.

[Stormanimagus]

Well I don't have money to spend on the articles at the moment, but I actually see now that it is additional insurance vs. shops. Whereas they can stop grisel with either metamorph or cage, it is hard to stop the maniac kill with either. Very interesting tech. I like it.

-Storm

[Smmenen]

Any free articles coming up? Just bought the Doomsday and this last week. Don't feel like paying anymore soon.

My set review will be podcast only, and entirely free.  Ill go into more depth on the podcast as a result.  Aside from history of vintage chapters, I don't have any other articles planned. 

I only write a few strategy articles a year, usually primers or reports for decks I created like my Doomsday Maniac deck I created in 2011 or this.  Now that all my set reviews are podcasts only, that's going to be especially true. 

Not counting set reviews and history articles, I only published 3 premium Vintage articles in 2012 and only 5 in 2011.   Expect that to be the norm going forward. 

Not having to work on a weekly grind allows me to make sure all my articles are highest quality.  Aside from my history articles, expect no more than a few premium Vintage articles a year.