Modern masters

[MaximumCDawg]

Simply put, the copyright is not indefinite and at some point, I can start printing Black Lotuses with no fear of repercussion.

Fraud laws would apply if you are printing something identical and trying to pass it off as original.  Hasbro is unlikely to let the Trademark expire, so you won't be legally allowed to reproduce the brand logo and name. 

The elements of fraud are:
1. A representation of fact 2. that is false 3. made by someone who knows or should know of its falsity 4. for the purpose of inducing another person to reasonably rely on the truth of the misrepresentation, 5. and the second person actually does reasonably rely on the misrepresentation 6. suffering damage.

So, yes, knowingly passing off a fake card as real might be construed as fraud.  But the person who could bring the fraud allegation is the buyer, not Hasbro.  Hasbro has nothing to do with it.  Hasbro has copyright claims, and potentially others like deceptive trade practice depending on what else is going on. 

[AmbivalentDuck]

Nothing stops me from printing "Magic: the out of copyright." Especially if I use different backs, it's probably even profitable to sell you a 4x set of EVERYTHING for ~$500.

[ELD]

The elements of fraud are:
1. A representation of fact 2. that is false 3. made by someone who knows or should know of its falsity 4. for the purpose of inducing another person to reasonably rely on the truth of the misrepresentation, 5. and the second person actually does reasonably rely on the misrepresentation 6. suffering damage.

So, yes, knowingly passing off a fake card as real might be construed as fraud.  But the person who could bring the fraud allegation is the buyer, not Hasbro.  Hasbro has nothing to do with it.  Hasbro has copyright claims, and potentially others like deceptive trade practice depending on what else is going on.

Passing a fake card as real is definitely fraud.  There's no question.  I can't sell you a fake painting and say it's an original. 

Hasbro has everything to do with their Trademark.  The fashion industry has ZERO patent protection.  That's why a Coach bag has their logo or name all over it.  The logo is Trademarked, and cannot be legally reproduced.  You just can't say Magic: The Gathering on copies you're trying to sell, morally or legally. 

Intellectual Property is an illegitimate idea.  I don't want to get to into it in this thread, but it's just an immoral government monopoly.  Copyright fails in it's stated goals, and makes society worse off.  All that said, even in a society that abolishes the mistake that is IP, you would not be able to sell copies of MTG cards.  WotC would sell official WotC cards.  Others would be able to make close copies themselves at home, but the brand name would not be able to be reproduced.  People want MTG cards because they are scarce.  If they were not scarce, they'd be literally as worthless as monopoly money. 

Nothing stops me from printing "Magic: the out of copyright." Especially if I use different backs, it's probably even profitable to sell you a 4x set of EVERYTHING for ~$500.

The profit and loss system would stop you.  To get prices down on high quality printing, you're talking about a volume that requires significant capital investment.  I mean, who knows for sure, but that sounds like a good way to hemorrhage money.  4x of everything is hugely wasteful, since most cards are crap.  I'd rather buy from they guy that had the sense to give me 16x Force of Wills, and pass on the Spiny Starfish.  People get rid of their bulk MTG cards all the time. 

Then there's the fact that new cards are always coming out.  What then?  Wait until a set comes out, then be the guy who prints them after the fact?  The turn around is not immediate, so you're coming to market late, with a product that has no secondary market.  The cards are only usable casually, since WotC tournaments do not allow them.  WotC might also only sell to vendors who agree to not sell knock offs.  Good luck getting your product to market. 

Then there's the fact that the cards have no scarcity.  Anyone can make them, including your targeted customer.  They will have the comparable value to monopoly money.  It might be possible to sell 4x of every card in Standard for like, $20, just to save serious playtesters the difficulty of proxying everything up.  If I had to try and make money off knock off cards, I would do it as a cube.  I'd create an awesome cube, and sell people the experience of playing with that set of cards.  It's casual, stays together, and is an out of the box experience.  At the point where the cards are not scarce, you're no longer getting paid from consumers for the cards.  You're getting paid for convenience of them not needing to spend time making the product, or come up with what cards to print.   

More likely, the entrepreneur who would make real profit would be the one that delivers an easy way for people to print the cards at home.  You sell the blanks, and the method of printing.  You host a site with sets to print, ready to go.  Pay to print for cube lists, balanced decks, entire Top 8's from events, that kind of thing. 

 

[AmbivalentDuck]

Pay to print for cube lists, balanced decks, entire Top 8's from events, that kind of thing.

I mean, you could sell the top8 decks from each major event ever, plus EDH decks, cubes, etc. Regardless, the point is that high-quality printing is not the price of Black Lotus. It's held artificially rare by copyright and little more. Folks have no right to expect eventually-out-of-copyright collectibles to grow in value forever.

As far as fraud, I can sell you an arbitrarily good copy of an Alpha Black Lotus so long as I let you know that I printed it myself and that it's not an original. The fact that subsequent buyers will not be able to tell the difference isn't my problem.

[KrauserKrauser]

So because I can flood the market with Mickey Mantle, Babe Ruth and Jackie Robinson reproduction baseball cards, there must be no value in the originals?

Or since I can print infinity copies of Amazing Fantasy #15 or Action Comics #1 there must be no value in the originals?

I'm nnot seeing where you get your justification for your.argument as it falls on its face when compared to already existing comparisons.

[ELD]

As far as fraud, I can sell you an arbitrarily good copy of an Alpha Black Lotus so long as I let you know that I printed it myself and that it's not an original. The fact that subsequent buyers will not be able to tell the difference isn't my problem.

It couldn't have Magic: The Gathering or a MTG logo on it.  This applies under our current IP laws due to Trademark, and would be the case under a free market system too.  Even under a free market system, you can copy ideas all you want, you just can't claim you a)invented the idea if you didn't or b)pass your item off as someone elses.  Both a and b are examples of fraud. 

I mean, you could sell the top8 decks from each major event ever, plus EDH decks, cubes, etc. Regardless, the point is that high-quality printing is not the price of Black Lotus. It's held artificially rare by copyright and little more.

There nothing artificial about the rarity of Black Lotus printed by WotC.  It is exactly because it's a limited print run by WotC that makes it desirable. 

Folks have no right to expect eventually-out-of-copyright collectibles to grow in value forever.

Folks have every right to expect whatever they wish.  They can be wrong about it.  On a related note, your understanding of economics is wrong.  You have every right to keep these foolish notions, or to see the proof that your ideas stated here are rubbish.  Other people are showing why your statements are incorrect.  The Comic and Baseball card example shows it just fine.  I'll let others correct you more if needed.  I'm out of this conversation, before I have to explain anything even simpler than scarcity. 

[Meddling Mike]

This isn't the place for a discussion about copyrights, trademarks or intellectual property.

[AmbivalentDuck]

So because I can flood the market with Mickey Mantle, Babe Ruth and Jackie Robinson reproduction baseball cards, there must be no value in the originals?

If I had a secret vault of 10 million gem mint originals of each and I released them into the market, their value would plummet. The same thing occurs if I kill off everyone interested in purchasing and holding them. So, that's correct, they have no intrinsic value. They're simply scarce relative to the demand for them.

I'm out of this conversation, before I have to explain anything even simpler than scarcity.

Don't even try to argue that plummeting demand for certain printings of cards following a reprint didn't affect prices despite constant scarcity of the original printing. Ie. Coat of Arms, Grim Lavamancer, Meddling Mage, Pithing Needle

[voltron00x]

A few things about this set, just because I feel like typing something.

1.  As far as I can determine, the ENTIRE POINT of this set's existence is to reduce the barrier to entry of the Modern format, specifically by introducing more copies of certain cards that are very expensive on the secondary market.  Therefore, the idea that this set won't reduce the value of cards like Goyf suggests that either a) This set will completely fail to achieve the goal set forth by Wizards, or b) People don't really understand Wizard's goal here or don't think it is achievable.

2.  Obviously this set won't be printed at the same level of the core sets, but there is plenty of evidence that reprinting a Mythic rare torpedoes its value; see Baneslayer Angel and the Titans value from their first summer to their second. 

3.  There are clearly cards in the set that already have almost no value, which are only being reprinted to make it playable.  See:  City of Brass.  Last I checked, that card is a) Barely played in the format, if played at all, and b) Costs $5.

4.  I hate the fact that MSRP is more than regular packs.  I get why they can do that, especially if it has the right cards in it, but I still think it reeks of a cash grab.  And if the cards in the packs justify the price, and the set is limited enough in print run, packs will go for more than MSRP on the secondary market anyway.  I suspect that it won't be that limited, though, as they have to print a pretty hefty amount to achieve their goal of secondary market cost reduction.

5.  It isn't so much the really high value cards, especially those at Mythic, that are going to get crushed in value (though I suspect that cards like Goyf could easily see a 25%-50% reduction in value by the end of this set's print run, and then will likely gain a good chunk of that back over the next few years as long as they remain relevant in Modern/Legacy).  Rather, it is the cards currently sitting in the $5-$25 bracket that I think will take a beating.  A Rare in that range, reprinted again at Rare, has a good shot of plummeting in value, with $5 rares dropping to a buck, and $25 rares dropping to $5-$10.  Similarly, value Uncommons that are reprinted will take a beating. 

All that being said, I guess this set is fine.  In some ways it sucks for me as I own 95% of the relevant cards for Modern, but at the same time, I'm not really using most of them and have no intention of selling them, so in reality I'm not impacted for all intents and purposes.  And, I think that if Modern becomes more relevant because of this reprinting, two important things will happen.  First, the cards will slowly regain value as time passes from whenever this set stops being in print (though some of the lower value ones will probably never recapture their current value), and two, other cards may actually increase in value due to not being reprinted and Modern being a healthier, more popular format.

Just some thoughts. 

[Smmenen]

Regarding your first point, I think folks are overlooking something: this set might not bring down the price of Tarmigoyf, but future reprints can and will.  This sets lays the foundation for future reprints (I. e. Mm 2 or 3).

[TVand]

Regarding your first point, I think folks are overlooking something: this set might not bring down the price of Tarmigoyf, but future reprints can and will.  This sets lays the foundation for future reprints (I. e. Mm 2 or 3).

Agreed.  I think it's clear if you read Forsythe's article explaining the set that they're being very cautious with this set because it's an experiment.  They don't have data on how releasing a product like this will affect prices and availability because there haven't been any products like this (yes, except for Chronicles, but they've explained why Modern Masters will be completely different).  I think they want to get a feel for how adding significant amounts of new supply will affect prices and availability, so they're intentionally lowballing this one with the intent of adjusting upwards in future releases if necessary.

[Norm4eva]

If Wizards really thought reprints were the path to lowering the entry barrier for Modern (or Eternal on the whole) I don't feel like they'd do limited print run sets that cost $80 for 18 actual cards and some sleeves.  If it were really about getting cards in people's hands, they'd print Eternal staples in the Core Set (those that they can, anyway).  I'm a simp, but I feel like this product just kind of rides the line between catering to players (reprinting a couple staples, and I guess Loyal Retainers) and collectors (oooh looky, a box set featuring Loyal Retainers).

I mean I get it, one raindrop raises the sea and that, but a bunch of foils isn't doing the average player any favors.  Meh.  I may actually write a kind letter to WotC, politely explaining that while I really like the idea of special sets which are strictly Eternal legal, that I don't believe paying $80 for 18 foils is a genuine gesture towards facilitating that.

[Smmenen]

If Wizards really thought reprints were the path to lowering the entry barrier for Modern (or Eternal on the whole) I don't feel like they'd do limited print run sets that cost $80 for 18 actual cards and some sleeves.  If it were really about getting cards in people's hands, they'd print Eternal staples in the Core Set (those that they can, anyway).  I'm a simp, but I feel like this product just kind of rides the line between catering to players (reprinting a couple staples, and I guess Loyal Retainers) and collectors (oooh looky, a box set featuring Loyal Retainers).

I mean I get it, one raindrop raises the sea and that, but a bunch of foils isn't doing the average player any favors.  Meh.  I may actually write a kind letter to WotC, politely explaining that while I really like the idea of special sets which are strictly Eternal legal, that I don't believe paying $80 for 18 foils is a genuine gesture towards facilitating that.

I think this answers your concern:

Regarding your first point, I think folks are overlooking something: this set might not bring down the price of Tarmigoyf, but future reprints can and will.  This sets lays the foundation for future reprints (I. e. Mm 2 or 3).

Agreed.  I think it's clear if you read Forsythe's article explaining the set that they're being very cautious with this set because it's an experiment.  They don't have data on how releasing a product like this will affect prices and availability because there haven't been any products like this (yes, except for Chronicles, but they've explained why Modern Masters will be completely different).  I think they want to get a feel for how adding significant amounts of new supply will affect prices and availability, so they're intentionally lowballing this one with the intent of adjusting upwards in future releases if necessary.

[Nefarias]

If Wizards really thought reprints were the path to lowering the entry barrier for Modern (or Eternal on the whole) I don't feel like they'd do limited print run sets that cost $80 for 18 actual cards and some sleeves.  If it were really about getting cards in people's hands, they'd print Eternal staples in the Core Set (those that they can, anyway).  I'm a simp, but I feel like this product just kind of rides the line between catering to players (reprinting a couple staples, and I guess Loyal Retainers) and collectors (oooh looky, a box set featuring Loyal Retainers).

I mean I get it, one raindrop raises the sea and that, but a bunch of foils isn't doing the average player any favors.  Meh.  I may actually write a kind letter to WotC, politely explaining that while I really like the idea of special sets which are strictly Eternal legal, that I don't believe paying $80 for 18 foils is a genuine gesture towards facilitating that.

This thread is about Modern Masters, not Commander's Arsenal. Two different things.

Modern Masters: http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/218

Commander's Arsenal (fully spoiled btw): http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/218c

[median]

If Wizards really thought reprints were the path to lowering the entry barrier for Modern (or Eternal on the whole) I don't feel like they'd do limited print run sets that cost $80 for 18 actual cards and some sleeves.  If it were really about getting cards in people's hands, they'd print Eternal staples in the Core Set (those that they can, anyway).  I'm a simp, but I feel like this product just kind of rides the line between catering to players (reprinting a couple staples, and I guess Loyal Retainers) and collectors (oooh looky, a box set featuring Loyal Retainers).

I mean I get it, one raindrop raises the sea and that, but a bunch of foils isn't doing the average player any favors.  Meh.  I may actually write a kind letter to WotC, politely explaining that while I really like the idea of special sets which are strictly Eternal legal, that I don't believe paying $80 for 18 foils is a genuine gesture towards facilitating that.

This thread is about Modern Masters, not Commander's Arsenal. Two different things.

Modern Masters: http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/218

Commander's Arsenal (fully spoiled btw): http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/218c

Just while were here, scroll rack is in commander arsenal, is that not on the reserved list? I thought it was which is weird, because if it is on the reserve list, could see like a vintage masters edition?
Edit: also an oversized sliver queen in arsenal which is on the reserved list.

[Smmenen]

Scroll Rack is not on the reserved list. 

[median]

Your right I just checked. Why not though? It's a a pre Masques rare that hasn't been reprinted. Shouldn't it be on the reserve list?

[Nefarias]

Your right I just checked. Why not though? It's a a pre Masques rare that hasn't been reprinted. Shouldn't it be on the reserve list?

It doesn't work quite like that. Remember that the Reserve List already existed by the time Tempest was released, so saying "We're not going to reprint any Tempest rares that haven't already been reprinted" would be a rather odd statement say, a year later.

For at the very least the Tempest and Urza's blocks (and I believe Ice Age and Mirage), whenever a set was released they had to put a certain number of rares on the Reserve List, completely at their discretion. I think the number was somewhere around 30%, but I don't recall exactly. As far as why they picked what they did, the only explanation I can offer up is that I think they said once that most of the Legends were picked because they assumed that they would never reprint a Legend anyway (this made FTV: Legends trickier for them).

[MaximumCDawg]

Agreed.  I think it's clear if you read Forsythe's article explaining the set that they're being very cautious with this set because it's an experiment.  They don't have data on how releasing a product like this will affect prices and availability because there haven't been any products like this (yes, except for Chronicles, but they've explained why Modern Masters will be completely different). 

They did Renaissance too, remember.

And yeah, over at MTG I observed that what WotC has done here is play a big game of musical chairs in order to get people to by Core sets.  What do I mean?  Well, everything Modern Masters is, the Core sets used to be- an all reprint set.  But that didnt sell, so they started putting new cards in the Core sets and now they're basically n00b-level expansion sets that come out once a year with a different new / reprint ratio than normal expansions.  And now they can sell an all-reprint set, which they couldn't before, branded as Modern Masters.  Especially if they make this a regular thing, they've just made us want what we didn't used to want.

Well played, Wizards.

[Norm4eva]

If Wizards really thought reprints were the path to lowering the entry barrier for Modern (or Eternal on the whole) I don't feel like they'd do limited print run sets that cost $80 for 18 actual cards and some sleeves.  If it were really about getting cards in people's hands, they'd print Eternal staples in the Core Set (those that they can, anyway).  I'm a simp, but I feel like this product just kind of rides the line between catering to players (reprinting a couple staples, and I guess Loyal Retainers) and collectors (oooh looky, a box set featuring Loyal Retainers).

I mean I get it, one raindrop raises the sea and that, but a bunch of foils isn't doing the average player any favors.  Meh.  I may actually write a kind letter to WotC, politely explaining that while I really like the idea of special sets which are strictly Eternal legal, that I don't believe paying $80 for 18 foils is a genuine gesture towards facilitating that.

This thread is about Modern Masters, not Commander's Arsenal. Two different things.

Modern Masters: http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/218

Commander's Arsenal (fully spoiled btw): http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/218c

Well, sucks to be me.

Modern Masters is the same but different though - aimed at an Eternal format, trying to respect players and collectors at the same time somehow.

There will be inevitable comparisons of this set to Chronicles, a much-maligned release from 1995 that flooded the market with reprints of highly sought-after cards from Magic's first few expansions. The outrage from collectors with regards to that set led to the creation of the Reserved List, and our hands are still tied from the effects of those compounded mistakes 17 years later.

Chronicles was brought up internally time and time again as Modern Masters evolved. Our R&D and Brand teams have spent many hours contemplating what Chronicles was trying to accomplish and where it went wrong. I ultimately feel that its biggest sin was that it did not respect people's existing collections—a sin we have no intention of repeating.

A glance at print run numbers available in the public domain shows that Chronicles likely increased the number of some cards in existence by a factor of ten or more! Cards that were rare and highly collectible were suddenly ubiquitous. The error was one of scale, and while I understand what the people working here at the time were trying to accomplish, in retrospect it was handled badly. Granted, they were adding their cards to what was then Type 2 (now Standard) and we are not, but I have to think there was a better way for them to solve the problem.

We won't make that mistake again. We don't want to turn cards from scarce to abundant in the blink of an eye, but we do want to alter the availability by a matter of degrees, all with the goal of growing the reach of the Modern format. Ideally, over time, any short-term drop in desirability of older cards you may own will be recouped as more players enter the format. I can't say it enough: our print run is very small, especially compared to what we're making for our current headliner sets like Return to Ravnica. We're playing in a very delicate space, and we know that, but the promise of the Modern format was that we would address card availability issues, and we are focused on figuring out the best way to do that.

If the set works and accomplishes what we want—more Modern players—we'll contemplate making another set like it some time down the road. But for now, our plan is to stick with our small printing and keep a close eye on what happens.

Emphasis mine, and I'm not trying to paint it like a total failure before it happens or anything, but I mean really, look at the thin line they've painted that they have to walk.  The wrath of the collectors is apparently such that they won't ever risk doing something silly like creating an abundance of cards that players feel are format requisites.  I know, bitch bitch bitch; I don't expect there to be such a surplus that every card is a nickel, I just don't understand how they can possibly please anyone by trying to please everyone.

[gkraigher]

I welcome Modern Masters with open arms, and I hope the experiment achieves wild success.  Enough that in a 5 years they do a Modern Masters 2 with these current sets not included in MM1.  

I recently re-evaluated my legacy and vintage collection and came to the conclusion that Wizards continues to print more and more powerful cards.  Cards that make some of the oldies, say Old Man of the Sea useless, while making others, Karakas comes to mind, even more powerful.  Collecting and assigning values to cards, trying to value the future, is just as much fun as playing the game to me.  

Wizards has said that this set is going to have a very limited print run, and I believe them.  It will be large enough to include more people into modern, but small enough not to devalue the cards being reprinted.  Expanding the Modern format, which is balanced and very fun, should be the #1 priority at Wizards right now.   Increasing its popularity, making it more assessable to more players, will only add value to Magic by increasing the number of Magic players.  As we have seen, the more people that play Magic, the greater the older cards, we all horde and cherish, gain value.  So I welcome it, and I can't wait to go out to Las Vegas next summer for the sealed Grand Prix.  I mean WOW, am I excited for it!

Loyal Retainers is getting reprinted as a foil.  Good.  I searched for a copy of the Reserved List and found this: http://www.wizards.com/magic/tcg/article.aspx?x=magic/products/reprintpolicy 

Does that mean all Portal 3 cards are free for reprint?  They should re-release that set if they can. 

[orgcandman]

An interesting note for those who are afraid that reprints will *negatively* affect prices - Modern legal fetches have doubled in price since the announcement. Coincidence?

Clearly, wizards will want to reprint these at some point, so there's always the spectre of reprint looming for these cards, anyway. Additionally, we all see Tarmogoyf staying solidly at the $80 - $100 mark, despite the fact that it is "future shifted" and means "we will probably reprint this someday"

[DubDub]

So the full set has been spoiled, and it contains a few Vintage-playable cards:

WHITE 
Ethersworn Canonist - Rare
Kataki, War's Wage - Rare
Path to Exile - Uncommon
Reveillark - Rare

BLUE 
Echoing Truth - Common
Gifts Ungiven - Rare
Narcomoeba - Uncommon
Pact of Negation - Rare
Spell Snare - Uncommon
Thirst for Knowledge - Uncommon
Vendilion Clique - Mythic

BLACK 
Bridge from Below - Rare
Dark Confidant - Mythic

RED 
Blood Moon - Rare
Empty the Warrens - Common
Grapeshot - Common

GREEN 
Krosan Grip - Uncommon
Life from the Loam - Rare
Tarmogoyf - Mythic

MULTI
Maelstrom Pulse - Rare
Trygon Predator - Uncommon

COLORLESS
Aether Vial - Rare
Chalice of the Void - Rare
Engineered Explosives - Rare
Relic of Progenitus - Uncommon
SOFI - Mythic
City of Brass - Rare

Significantly better than one could expect from a new set, though obviously none of these are new cards.

[Norm4eva]

I like the spoiler and the apparent effort put into this product, but it's already seeing people jack up the price past MSRP.  Packs MSRP at 6.99, but they're going online at 3 for 30.  A box of 24 packs should be, what, like $170ish?  $180 if tax were like 10%.  SCG selling them on preorder for $299.

The best part is they will probably just buy back singles and resell them for gobs, just like last time.  And every derpy card shop owner will say, "Aw hell, if Star City Games can get X-hundred for some card, then I'm *stupid* not to try and charge that much! Hell I should probably just sell my product to them and call it a day! We're closing early kids! The Simpsons are going to the movies!"

I'm not an econ major, I really do not give a good goddamn about supply, demand, zero-sum theory, or any of that.  I just know that I keep getting priced out of the kind of Magic I want to be playing (you think I like being the guy showing up with Budget Burn?  come on) and I guess I could cry more about it but really it doesn't matter. Someone somewhere is buying this product, so no amount of me actively participating in a discussion about why no one in their right mind would/should pay this much for cards changes anything.

tldr bitch bitch bitch i'm poor and i hate things that are expensive.  I sure do have a playset of guildgates though

[DubDub]

At the end of the day, Modern Masters will add to the supply, which will decrease prices.  Whether that decrease is marginal or drastic remains to be seen (spoiler: not going to be drastic).

The key takeaway here is that with the sealed product going for so much in excess of MSRP, WotC should have done one of two things:
1) Sold it for a higher MSRP to begin with to capture more of the profits that SCG+friends are making now.
2) Had a larger print run and sold more of it at the current MSRP, so that the market price would more closely mirror MSRP but they'd get greater profits.

The problem with #1 is that consumers are far more likely to punish WotC for setting a high (even if deservedly high) MSRP than they are to punish SCG+friends for 'simply adopting the going rate'.  WotC doesn't want the backlash for ~$15 packs ("a dollar a card? they're just cardboard, get over yourselves Wizards!"), so they ought, if they're intelligent, to turn to solution #2.  As long as they don't expand to such a massive print run that they're ending up setting lower MSRP to clear the product they're probably not going to run afoul of the "don't crash prices on my precious investments" crowd.

Side note: I have seen in some places the claim that MM will only foster greater demand for the format and hence prices won't change at all, which is unreasonable.  MM adjusts the supply directly, and the indirect effects on demand are negligible (i.e. you basically have to say that there's a non-cost issue preventing demand from being met now that MM will assuage, like that Modern cards aren't available in LGSs, which may be correct, OR ONLINE, which is flatly incorrect, or you'd have to say that MM will raise the profile of the Modern format, but it was already crystal clear that this is the Eternal format WotC is going to put at the forefront).

What may increase the demand for Modern cards is an announcement from SCG that they're replacing all Legacy Opens with Modern Opens in 2014.  Or just adding a large number of events for Modern to the tourneys they already run.

[Greg]

I'm very surprised that Thoughtseize was not included in Modern Masters.

That little black sorcery's price has been continually increasing. Does this mean that it will only continue to grow?

[davelin]

I'm very surprised that Thoughtseize was not included in Modern Masters.

That little black sorcery's price has been continually increasing. Does this mean that it will only continue to grow?

Probably until MM2 comes out although im hoping for Legacy Legends or Vintage Viables!

[Samoht]

I'm very surprised that Thoughtseize was not included in Modern Masters.

That little black sorcery's price has been continually increasing. Does this mean that it will only continue to grow?

MM2 or M14/Theros.

[psyburat]

I'm happy that Dredge and Noble Fish 2K12 can replace all their future cards with modern frames.  Those things are eyesores.

[quicksilvervii]

I'm happy that Dredge and Noble Fish 2K12 can replace all their future cards with modern frames.  Those things are eyesores.

I agree that new framed cards are ugly.