Bomberman Redux

[Dr Evil]

While that is very nice indeed, I rather play zero "dead" cards and have a 99% chance of winning when comboing, then risk having/drawing my the one "dead" card and win 99.9% of the time when comboing.

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

This deck doesn't need a win on the spot combo. When it wins you are so far ahead it doesn't need to win on the spot. There may be an illusion that the opponent thinks they are in the game...but they actually aren't. This same scenario happens with landstill. The opponent thinks they are in the game, when a lot of times they actually aren't...

That being said tendrils seems like a cool option in a bob list since bob will draw you cards and keep pressure. I'm sure you could mini tendrils for the win at times...

[Wagner]

While that is very nice indeed, I rather play zero "dead" cards and have a 99% chance of winning when comboing, then risk having/drawing my the one "dead" card and win 99.9% of the time when comboing.

Agreed, I've played Bomberman for years, won a lot of tournaments with it and never, not even a single time, lost once I assembled the combo, wiped the board with EE and kept a hand with plenty of counters.

To lose in that situation, your opponent needs to have a lethal permanent that costs 6 or more, a big guy that can't be blocked NOR bounced or a Split Second spell that will kill you in 1 shot, no one plays any of that in Vintage, so there is no need to play a dead card in case a random person does. Also, all those hypoteticals scenarios just won't even risk happening if you get an extra turn with Time Walk right away.

[kalisia]

While that is very nice indeed, I rather play zero "dead" cards and have a 99% chance of winning when comboing, then risk having/drawing my the one "dead" card and win 99.9% of the time when comboing.

Agreed, I've played Bomberman for years, won a lot of tournaments with it and never, not even a single time, lost once I assembled the combo, wiped the board with EE and kept a hand with plenty of counters.

To lose in that situation, your opponent needs to have a lethal permanent that costs 6 or more, a big guy that can't be blocked NOR bounced or a Split Second spell that will kill you in 1 shot, no one plays any of that in Vintage, so there is no need to play a dead card in case a random person does. Also, all those hypoteticals scenarios just won't even risk happening if you get an extra turn with Time Walk right away.

It depends completely on what is your "dead" card.
If you're talking about Tendrils, this IS NOT a dead card.
But the card needs to be played in a control-combo deck, and not in a classical very controlish bomberman list.

Tendrils allows you to win games even when the opponent is putting you "out" of the game.
Sometimes, Dark Confidant let him to win the "draw-war" but costs him enough life points, to allow you to finish him with a small Tendrils.
It happened to me many times, to win a game where I could play only some moxen and a Tendrils and where the opponent didn't have the Mindbreak Trap or the Flusterstorm in hand.

If Bomberman draws his entire deck with Lotus and Spellbomb, it's not a guarantee of winning the game.
The split second spell is not necessary, if you already played your Flusterstorm/MB Traps, and the opponent can cast a Tendrils, you lose.
Another example : once in a tournament game, an Inkwell Leviathan attacked me two times before I could combo with Auriok. If I had played the classic Bomberman version, I would have lose to a last Islanwalk attack (Spellbomb doesn't work with Leviathan). But I was playing Tendrils, and I just won on the spot.
If it arrived to me, it's the proof that sometimes it happens to lose because your can't is not able to win a game on the spot.
I don't say Bomberman is not a good deck, but in reality, it's a Control deck that wins usually with small creatures, and that "occasionally" wins with the Auriok combo.
Tendrils allows the deck to win in the same manner than the old Gifts decks, via Yawgmoth's Will, or Hurkyl's Recall. The Auriok combo is very fragile (to cards like Extirpate, Surgical Extraction,...) and if Lotus is removed from the game, UW Bomberman becomes almost a fish deck with Mana Drains. That is why I have always prefered a version that can make broken big turns.
 

[Wagner]

If Bomberman draws his entire deck with Lotus and Spellbomb, it's not a guarantee of winning the game.
The split second spell is not necessary, if you already played your Flusterstorm/MB Traps, and the opponent can cast a Tendrils, you lose.

If you allow a lethal Tendrils to resolve with a hand full of counters, you're doing something very very wrong. You should be able to easily counter the key spells and, if a Tendrils DOES go off, counter enough copies to not die right now. Remember your opponent won't have anything other than lands in play and most likely not a full hand.

[kalisia]

Wrong.
You can force the way of your Auriok, and the opponent can have no counters in hand but a lot of other stuff.
When you see that you are losing the card advantage war and you have Tendrils in hand, you keep all your moxes and other artifacts in hand, in order to be stopable only by Mindbreak Trap or (may be) Flusterstorm. In this case, the opponent has nothing to do to stop a lethal Tendrils, because there are not key spells.

And the problem of cards like Inkwell Leviathan are not solved. To solve it, you need to sideboard cards like Rebuild/Hurkyl that are not good cards in a UW Bomberman deck.

[Wagner]

Wrong.
You can force the way of your Auriok, and the opponent can have no counters in hand but a lot of other stuff.
When you see that you are losing the card advantage war and you have Tendrils in hand, you keep all your moxes and other artifacts in hand, in order to be stopable only by Mindbreak Trap or (may be) Flusterstorm. In this case, the opponent has nothing to do to stop a lethal Tendrils, because there are not key spells.

And the problem of cards like Inkwell Leviathan are not solved. To solve it, you need to sideboard cards like Rebuild/Hurkyl that are not good cards in a UW Bomberman deck.

IF you have a hand of 7 cards playing combo and your opponent assembles Auriok Lotus, IF he doesn't Time Walk for the kill right away, IF he doesn't have anymore Mindbreak trap or Flutterstorm in his deck, that means you can at most play Tendrils with storm 6 for 14 damage. IF your opponent is below 14 (which, since you have 7 cards in hand, is unlikely), he will have at least 2 Mana Drain and 2 Force for Will and another counter ready, which is plenty to stop your non-lethal Tendrils.

That's a WHOLE lot of "if" to possibly get to a tendril that will not even kill your opponent. Not saying it can't happen, just saying it's not worth having a suboptimal card in all your matches in the chance that this very narrow scenario does happen.

Same goes for Inkwell, it's barely played anymore, if you get an opponent that does play it, and that opponent happens to resolve tinker and hit you exactly 2 times with it, no more no less, then yes, that card could save you, in all other situations, it will be suboptimal.

[Cruel Ultimatum]

Uwb has time vault key, so you dont pass the turn back and cant lose to tendrils

The uw version has v clique, so you cant lose to tendrils.

No one plays inkwell, so you csnt lose to that.

So no, your wrong.

[Pokey]

Uwb has time vault key, so you dont pass the turn back and cant lose to tendrils

The uw version has v clique, so you cant lose to tendrils.

No one plays inkwell, so you csnt lose to that.

So no, your wrong.

I've never actually done this because it is pointless, but you can repeatedly cast V Clique until your opponent's hand is all lands.

Also, when is the last time anyone has played Inkwell?  I have to agree on this one.

[Cruel Ultimatum]

Uwb has time vault key, so you dont pass the turn back and cant lose to tendrils

The uw version has v clique, so you cant lose to tendrils.

No one plays inkwell, so you csnt lose to that.

So no, your wrong.

I've never actually done this because it is pointless, but you can repeatedly cast V Clique until your opponent's hand is all lands.

Also, when is the last time anyone has played Inkwell?  I have to agree on this one.

Yeah, that is what I was thinking when I wrote that. I would imagine it never comes up because everyone scoops before you get to that point.

[Pokey]

Yeah, that's usually what happens.  I'll make a note to do it sometime though, because it sounds hilarious!

[kalisia]

That's a WHOLE lot of "if" to possibly get to a tendril that will not even kill your opponent. Not saying it can't happen, just saying it's not worth having a suboptimal card in all your matches in the chance that this very narrow scenario does happen.

Same goes for Inkwell, it's barely played anymore, if you get an opponent that does play it, and that opponent happens to resolve tinker and hit you exactly 2 times with it, no more no less, then yes, that card could save you, in all other situations, it will be suboptimal.

Uwb has time vault key, so you dont pass the turn back and cant lose to tendrils

The uw version has v clique, so you cant lose to tendrils.

No one plays inkwell, so you csnt lose to that.

So no, your wrong.

@Cruel Ultimatum and @ Wagner :
Play the cards you want in your deck, that's not a problem for me, I just explain my choices and how I have always played Bomberman.

Concerning Time Vault /Key, UW Bomberman does'nt play Yawgmoth's Will, so if Time Vaut have been countered or Duressed, you can't win this combo.
Concerning Clique, if the opponent's kept his Tendrils on the top of library (with Sensei's Top for example, of after a Brainstorm, Ponder or Preordain), your Vendilion Clique is useless.
Concerning Inkwell Leviathan, that's wrong. Many players play it on sideboard in order to be able to beat Fish and WG decks.

What you don't understand, is that I am explaining why Tendrils is not a dead card and why playing the card adds a real brokeness in a deck like Bomberman.
I kill 50% of the time with Tendrils, including half of theses games by the combo Auriok-Lotus-Tendrils, and the other half by Yawgmoth's + Tendrils or something similar (with Hurkyl + Tendrils, or with Chain of Vapor + Snapcaster Mage + Tendrils, or etc...).
But, ok, you can continue to play your versions, I don't force anyone to play the same cards than mine .

UW Bomberman is not broken, it's a verry controlish deck, it's a strong deck, but it can't rarely return completely a critical situation, than a deck with Tendrils can do it.
With your UW deck, if your opponent is taking the control of the game, it's almost impossible to reverse the situation. You have Lotus on the gravyard and you want to cast Auriok ? He will counter it. You want to try to win with your small creatures ? He will win with Time Vault-Key, or Tinker-BSC, or Jace.
When you play Tendrils, the opponent must be VERY watchful with all your plays, because a simple Vampiric Tutor he lets resolve can be lethal.
Control decks can't handle so easily with Tendrils.

Tendrils allows to win games by Duress + Yawgmoth's Will, even if Lotus have been removed.
As I said before, if you remove Lotus from the UW version, you obtain a sort of Fish deck with Mana Drains, not really the decks I like to play
The version with Tendrils is really less Lotus dependant.

[Phele]

The version with Tendrils is really less Lotus dependant.

Dare to present your list? Sounds at least pretty unusual.

[Wagner]

You seem to be talking about a completely different deck now, with Duress, Tendrils, Y. Will, Hurkyll and Vampiric. We're far from the discussion about adding 1 card to the deck to win right now.

Also, the trick with Clique is to bounce it with your Spellbomb and replay it until your opponent has only lands in his hand, it doesn't matter if the Tendrils was on top of the deck or not.

[Pokey]

@kalisia  If my opponent hides Tendrils (or whatever) on top of their deck, they will draw it when I Clique them the first time, then I will do it again.  Also, "many players" sideboard Inkwell?  Not sure where you are from, but this is unheard of in the US.

I'm not saying your strategy is good or bad, but I am also curious about a list, as your whole approach to the deck seems completely different.

[kalisia]

My approach is different indeed. But I talk about something tested, because I played tournaments with Tendrils, others with Vault-Key, and others with Aether Spellbomb, in Bomberman. And my conclusion has been that most of the time, Tendrils was the option that I would have wanted or needed.
You guys have you tried different tools listed below ?

The discussion is not so far from debating about one card, because in a list like Phele's deck, I think just adding Tendrils would be good. Adding black just for Confidant is sad in my opinion. If you add a black splash, it's obvious that the broken package (Demonic, Vampiric, YawgWill) will add real power to the deck. And adding the Tendrils will add another very interesting plan.

We are talking about adding a "kill on the turn" card, so I would'nt want to talk too much about my list beacuse it's really different from the lists of this topic, and would be out of topic. For those interested, there is already atopic here : http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=39374.0

But even in a list like Phele's list, I'm sure that Tendrils is a really good option. It has a good synergy with Dark Confidant, which are the first 4 black cards added inside his list.

[Anusien]

The problem I find with Tendrils specifically and adding other post-combo cards more generally is that I generally don't get to that point and lose. But there are all kinds of strategies that Salvagers/Lotus doesn't beat, like Sphere of Resistance effects or Stony Silence. Tendrils is poor against those strategies, as sometimes is Time Vault/Key

[Samoht]

The problem I find with Tendrils specifically and adding other post-combo cards more generally is that I generally don't get to that point and lose. But there are all kinds of strategies that Salvagers/Lotus doesn't beat, like Sphere of Resistance effects or Stony Silence. Tendrils is poor against those strategies, as sometimes is Time Vault/Key

I'm with you all the way up to the last clause.

[Anusien]

You're already weak to Null Rod/Stony Silence strategies because you can't combo over top of them, and decks with those cards tend to have larger/more creatures than you do. Time Vault doesn't actually help there.

[Samoht]

You're already weak to Null Rod/Stony Silence strategies because you can't combo over top of them, and decks with those cards tend to have larger/more creatures than you do. Time Vault doesn't actually help there.

You play control against those, not combo. The oops I win factor can go and you are still favored. Even then, Devout Witness is the real deal.

[Kirika]

I like playing with Dark Confidant so I prefer the Esper Bomberman version.   As a long time Keeper player, I like white's ability to deal with all threats over Red.    Salvagers combo is also nice.

This is what I been running.

Artifact (12)
1 Black Lotus
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Sensei’s Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key

Black (6)
4 Dark Confidant
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth’s Will

Blue (22)
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Flusterstorm
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Mana Drain
2 Mental Misstep
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Time Walk
3 Trinket Mage

White (4)
2 Auriok Salvagers
2 Swords to Plowshares

Land (17)
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Plains
1 Polluted Delta
1 Tolarian Academy
3 Tundra
2 Underground Sea

Sideboard (15)
1 Devout Witness
2 Disenchant
2 Grafdigger’s Cage
2 Kataki
1 Pithing Needle
2 Rest in Peace
2 Swords to Plowshares
2 Steel Sabotage
1 Tormod's Crypt

A few opinions.
I can't see running less then 3 Jace since Jace is just so good.    Justin stresses the 4 Jaces and I have been liking that change to 4.   Might drop to 3 but liking 4.

Can't see not running Yawgmoth's Win if your playing black.  Yes its a non combo with Salvagers but you often get enough advantage out of it to win.

Vault Key is worth running despite the hate with Trinket Mage and Demonic to find the combo along with Salvagers to get it back if it got countered or destroyed.

No Top deck tutors.  Don't like the Card disadvantage..

No Tinker Blightsteel most decks have an answer for it and then its a liability.  Also really bad to hit Blightsteel off Dark Confidant.

No Mana Crypt, I lose die rolls often.   I die to Mana Crypt much more often then I die to Bob.  Cut it after I cut Tinker and Blightsteel haven't really missed it.   It was nice with Tinker or against Workshops on the play but with out Tinker to get rid of it I died to it too much.

Cards under consideration
+1 Basic Swamp / -1 Library- I had one for awhile but I ended up cutting it and putting Library back in.  Having another basic would be good for Workshop match ups although Library is good vs control.

1 Vendilion Clique / - 1 ??- I like it in my legacy esper stoneblade deck but can never find room for it vintage.  Considering cutting a Swords to Plowshares or Jace #4 but I feel you need removal maindeck with Caverns making creatures uncounterable now and cutting Jace never seems like a good idea because well he wins the game.

2 Ancient Tomb sideboard over something like Kataki.   In theory this sounds good to help you cast your hate but the damage sure adds up in conjunction with Bob.

Sideboarding

Blue control
+0-1 Pithing Needle (if they have Tez or Mishra's Factories.)
-0-1 Mental Mistep, -0-1 Swords to Plowshares (if they don't have bob or mishras)

Dredge:
+2 Grafdigger's Cage, 1 Pithing Needle, 2 Rest in Peace, 1 Tormod's Crypt
-1 Yawgmoth's Will, -2 Mana Drain, -2 Snapcaster Mage, -1 Thirst for Knowledge

Fish:
+2 Disenchant, +1 Devout Witness,  +2 Swords to Plowshares,
-1 Flusterstorm, -2 Mental Mistep, -2 Mana Drain

Oath:
+2 Disenchant, +2 Grafdigger's Cage
-0-2 Swords to Plowshares, -2 Snapcaster Mage, -0-1 Yawgmoth's Will

Shops:
+1 Devout Witness, +2 Disenchant, +2 Kataki, +0-1 Pithing Needle (Bazaar, Metal Worker, or Welder)  +2 Steel Sabotage, +2 Swords to Plowshares
-2 Auriok Salvagers, -1 Flusterstorm, -2 Mental Mistep -2 Snapcaster Mage, -1 Thirst for Knowledge -1 Yawgmoth's Will

Blue control vs Shops match ups can be pretty miserable on the draw but its that way even with Red for Welder and Chewer.  Baleful Strix actually helps out the Workshop match up quite a bit but thats a different deck then.  Not exactly sure what the best options against shops.  The old 3 stoneforge + batter skull was decent till everyone started running Revokers.  Instants like Disenchant you can cast under Wire but creatures like Stoneforge and Kataki are easier to get through resisters and give you additional things to tap to wire.   I run Kataki because Energy Flux is really hard to resolve outside of getting it going first and having a couple of moxes or a Lotus.  Serenity sounds good, need to test that more.

@Kalisia
I actually tried Tendrils awhile back not just as a win now but I wanted some life gain to offset Bob and Crypt damage that wasn't Swords to Plowshares your own BoB and it wasn't really that good most of the time.   Occasionally you would get a big Will + Tendrils turn or your opponent was low enough on life that a mini Tendrils would win it but majority of the time it didn't do much other then sit in my hand since I played out all my moxes.   It would be a bad gain 4 as you would draw a mox and play it and the Tendrils.   Felt like you wanted Dark Ritual for Tendrils to be decent and then that is a totally different deck.    I found running Jitte won me more games then Tendrils when I tried it and Jitte was also bad and got cut.

4 Confidant + Demonic Tutor and Yawgmoth's Win I agree are must run but I don't think Vampiric is worth it with the card disadvantage.

I'd be interested in seeing your list.

@Anusien
That is why you run 3-4 Jace.

@Pokey
I seen couple people play Inkwell at the last tournament I was at.  Still probably not worth sideboarding Hurkyl's for an answer to it.

[CwaM]

I've been playing this for some games right now: (which is the exact MD of the guy that top8 at the Gencon)
        1 Library of Alexandria
        1 Polluted Delta
        1 Tolarian Academy
        2 Cavern of Souls
        2 Underground Sea
        3 Island
        3 Tundra
        4 Flooded Strand
        2 Auriok Salvagers
        2 Snapcaster Mage
        3 Trinket Mage
        4 Dark Confidant
        2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
        1 Black Lotus
        1 Engineered Explosives
        1 Mox Jet
        1 Mox Pearl
        1 Mox Ruby
        1 Mox Sapphire
        1 Nihil Spellbomb
        1 Sensei's Divining Top
        1 Sol Ring
        1 Time Vault
        1 Voltaic Key
        1 Ancestral Recall
        1 Brainstorm
        1 Thirst for Knowledge
        2 Flusterstorm
        2 Mental Misstep
        2 Swords to Plowshares
        3 Mana Drain
        4 Force of Will
        1 Demonic Tutor
        1 Time Walk
        1 Yawgmoth's Will
SB:  1 Steel Sabotage
SB:  1 Hurkyl's Recall
SB:  1 Plains
SB:  2 Surgical Extraction
SB:  1 Tormod's Crypt
SB:  1 Pithing Needle
SB:  2 Energy Flux
SB:  2 Kataki, War's Wage
SB:  1 Disenchant
SB:  2 Grafdigger's Cage
SB:  1 Swords to Plowshares

I didn't like the 3 maindeck island, but I can't see myself playing that basic plains, especially if you want to play 3-4 Jaces.
I really liked the esper version over the straight UW because of the speed that dark confidant provides to the deck. In the UW version, I always have tons of cards in hand that will take forever to resolve (V Clique, the 4h trinket, the 4th jace....)

There are a few cards I'm not sold in:
The 3rd island: This should probably be a fetch or an unerground sea (or you'll never cast mana drain with plains and cavern of souls...)
The spellbomb: I guess I depend on the number of slots I'll have in the sideboard against dredge
The Thirst for Knowledge but haven't tested enough against blue decks to conclude on this card
The 2nd flusterstorm : metagame call I guess

I liked the TVault Key win condition, but still, I'm unsure it really belongs to the deck (especially if you play yawg will that usually exile your black lotus)

About the sideboard,
Devout Witness: didn't try it, but that guy seem weak! 3 manas, one more turn, if you still get your white mana to activate and they didn't play revoker, that's a lot!
Serenity: Tried it, I really think that the card is bad. It's reactive, where you need instant or proactive answers
Kataki & Eflux: they're good!
HRecall: OTPlay against MUD, I didn't like the card, I guess it's better OTDraw... but a 2nd disenchant should be nice so you can side it against oath/fish
Rest in Peace: This card seems imho better than it looks. Not synergic with your deck, 2 manas (it seems ichorid can win on their second turn :p )
Steel Sabotage: will MUD be playing a chalice for 1 or for 2, that's the question, the card has been usually good, I should tried a 2nd one, but don't know what I'm suppoed to cut...?

about your sb against shos:

Shops:
+1 Devout Witness, +2 Disenchant, +2 Kataki, +0-1 Pithing Needle (Bazaar, Metal Worker, or Welder)  +2 Steel Sabotage, +2 Swords to Plowshares
-2 Auriok Salvagers, -1 Flusterstorm, -2 Mental Mistep -2 Snapcaster Mage, -1 Thirst for Knowledge -1 Yawgmoth's Will

you're cutting auriok but not the spellbomb?
By Playing cheap answers, snapcaster will be a reality that imho you'll need (and 4jace against MUD on the draw seems a bad idea...)

here is my sideboard:
Out vs MUD
-1 tfk -1 Trinket -2 Auriok -1 Spellbomb B -2 mental misstep -2 fluster -1 flusterstorm  -1 yawg Will
+1 plaine +2 energy flux +2 kataki +1 Needle +1 stp +1 steel sabotage +1 H Recall (2nd Disenchant) +1 disenchant

[Cruel Ultimatum]

@cwam: cut the surgical extractions, they seem terrible. And against shops I would much rather cut a snapcaster then the nihil spell bomb. I also think there the esper version can go down to one salvager. As far as the mana base this is what I would support:

-1 library
-1 academy
+1 plains
+1 polluted delta/blue fetch

[Kirika]

@CwaM
Maindeck basic lands are against Wasteland decks.   You want at least 3 basics so you can lay a 4th land and cast Jace with Null Rod out.   I like having a basic plains because it lets you cast and use Salvagers along with Swords to Plowshares. 

Spell bomb is so you can combo off with Salvagers and draw lots of cards.   Nihil Spellbomb gives you a maindeck answer to Dredge, Goblin Welder and Yawgmoth's Will.

Thirst is actually quite good because there isn't that much instant card draw and manipulation with most of it being restricted and Fact or Fiction competes with Jace for slots.

I think you should be playing the 3rd Jace before you play the 2nd Flusterstorm but if you play against alot of Storm Combo maybe the 2nd Flusterstorm is good.

Time Vault + Key is nice for the just win aspect of it.   Hard not to run if you have Trinket Mages to find Key and Demonic Tutor to find Time Vault along with Yawgmoth's Will

As far as sideboarding.

Devout Witness is quite good if you can get it in play. Making every card in your deck a disenchant is quite awesome.   Basic Plains helps with having white mana.  If you can get it out early before they get too much out  and they don't have the Revoker or Duplicant it usually wins the game.  3+ mana can be rough to get it into play but as a creature is doesn't get by Thorns at least.

I have to give Serenity another try.  I tried it last tournament instead of Kataki and the one time it came up I couldn't get it into play.  The Serenity + Ancient Tombs board plan might be worth trying again.   You do take a bit too much damage with Bobs.  You still need Disenchants for Null Rod and Oath though.

Energy Flux is really awesome if you can cast it but I found to be difficult to cast unless you want first and had at least 1 mox.  Kataki was much easier to get into play.

Rest in Peace is too good not to run as it locks out Dredge unless they remove it.  2 mana isn't an issue as you can play it turn 1 if you have a Mox.  You can kill it with Engineered Explosives when you are ready to go off or just win with Jace.  I would run 2 Rest in Peace instead of the Surgical Extractions.

Steel Sabotage is really good if your on the play since you can counter an artifact for 1 blue mana.   On the draw its not as good but still decent.  Don't estimate the end of turn bounce.

You really want 2 Disenchants vs Null Rod, Stony Silence, Oath of Druids etc.

I keep the Spellbomb in against Shops because Spellbomb is pretty good versus Goblin Welder if they have it.   Even if they don't its another cheap artifact you can throw out there to have something to tap to Tangle Wire or sacrifice to Smoke Stack.

Snapcaster costs 5 mana to flashback a 1 mana spell if they have even 1 Resistor so I board it out.

Jace is pretty much your win con vs shops as they lock you out of the Salvagers plan so you want to draw it.  Getting it into play isn't that easy but it is possible with all your hate.  You do make a point that I could go down to 3 on the draw.

@Cruel Ultimatum
I can see cutting Library for another basic but Academy enables some pretty explosive turn 1 plays including turn 1 Jace so not so sure about cutting it.  It does make your mana more consistent though.
 

[Cruel Ultimatum]

As far as academy, I really don't care about playing turn one jace and that is why I only play two. Jace is probably the most overrated card in vintage right now.

Also, I would cut the yawg will, it was pretty meh in my experience.

[CwaM]

@cwam: cut the surgical extractions, they seem terrible. And against shops I would much rather cut a snapcaster then the nihil spell bomb. I also think there the esper version can go down to one salvager. As far as the mana base this is what I would support:

-1 library
-1 academy
+1 plains
+1 polluted delta/blue fetch

Could you explain why surgicals seem terrible?
If you're going to answer "it's better to play a turn 1 rest in peace off a mox", please do not. Surgical is really good against dredge as bridge from below is the card that is annoying. Also, it allows you to go dark confidant and still having a nice disrupt card against dredge

Concerning, shop and the snap/jace/spellbomb:
How would you want to play a jace that costs at least mana in sorcery where snapcaster can be another answer to a problem or a permanent for tangle wire?
Why would you want to keep the spellbomb that requires black to activate? You don't want to fetch your Usea for this...

About cutting down to 1 salvagers, you might be right, but a little more explanations would be welcome
Yawg Will, I guess I'd need to play a bit more the deck to be sure it belongs to it

@Kirika, about 4 manas and jace, I don't think this will ever happens: having the 3 basics into play before landing the last one, I think you can hold at least 1 fetch. The plains hurts while playing LoA, 2 caverns and 3 mana drains!

[Kirika]

Ran this at the Top Deck Games tournament this past weekend.

Artifact (12)
1 Black Lotus
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Sensei’s Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key

Black (6)
4 Dark Confidant
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth’s Will

Blue (22)
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Flusterstorm
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Mana Drain
2 Mental Misstep
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Time Walk
3 Trinket Mage
1 Vendilion Clique

White (4)
2 Auriok Salvagers
2 Swords to Plowshares

Land (17)
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Plains
1 Polluted Delta
1 Tolarian Academy
3 Tundra
2 Underground Sea

Sideboard (15)
1 Devout Witness
2 Disenchant
2 Grafdigger’s Cage
1 Kataki
1 Pithing Needle
2 Rest in Peace
1 Serenity
2 Swords to Plowshares
2 Steel Sabotage
1 Tormod's Crypt

Put in Vendilion Clique instead of the 4th Jace.   Clique was pretty good in a couple matches.

This is from memory

Round 1 Shops (Win)
G1 Loss get locked down
G2 Win He mulls to 5 and I get Kataki in play
G3 Win He turn 1 chalice at 0 and 1 then I force his Resister.  Play Bob and draw into Serenity for the blow out.

Round 2 U/W Landstill (Draw)
G1 I force my threats out via Cavern and win.
G2 I get out threats with Cavern but die to Colonade couldn't find the Swords or Needle for it.
G3 I Trinket Mage for Lotus and get Jace  in play but we go to time and I can't kill him in time.   He drains my EoT clique which force and he forces back.  Might have had it with Time Walk + Yagwill.

Round 3 R/U Moon Welder (win)
G1 he arrives late so I get a game win
G2 I get out a Dark Confidant followed by a Jace and counter his threats.

Round 4 vs Burning Oath (loss)
G1 He drops Orchard Oath on turn 1 I don't have a force.
G2 I have the Cage and Dark Confidant but no counters so he just plays Griselbrand via Show and Tell

Round 5 vs Burning Oath (loss)
G1 He has duress for my drain and plays Oath + orchard next turn.
G2 I get out a Cage but I found I punt this one forcing using Jace on a Burning wish and later forgeting I made my land drop and I discard Top to Thirst thinking I can cast a Mox so I can Trinket for Pithing Needle to Needle Grislbrand.   He hard casts Griselbrand with fast mana next turn.  My  my next card was Force.

Thinking I might want to add Trinisphere to my board again for Storm.  Might cut a Steel Sabatoge for it since those only good on the play.  Might want a second Flusterstorm in the board as well but not sure what to cut for it.  Could also use another Mana Drain maindeck but space is tight.

@Cruel Ultimatum
I think Yawgmoth's Will is still worth running. Yawgmoth's Will is so powerful late game.  There are times where you draw it early or removed your Ancestral with a Snapcaster Mage.  It is a non combo with Salvagers since you often remove your Black Lotus to Yawgmoth's will but this usually puts you far enough ahead to win.

@CwaN
Rest in Peace is better because it just turns off Dredge period till they remove it it.    Losing Bridges hurts but Dredge can still win without bridges.

Jace is hard to play under resists but you only have to pay the resistor tax once.   Snapcaster becomes really difficult to pay the resister tax since you have to pay it twice once for Snappy and again for the flashback card.

I like having the basic lands.   2 Basic islands so you can cast Mana drain and the basic plains to cast and use Salvagers is nice.  You can't always save a fetch land,  Crucible of Worlds + Wasteland is a threat.  I can see the 3 island with the plains in the board also.

[Cruel Ultimatum]

I guess yawg will comes down to play style. It just seemed like every time I drew it there was either nothing I wanted to flashback because snapcaster already snagged the recall/walk, I didn't feel comfortable tapping out for will, or I already had the game locked up. I might play a bit too conservative sometimes though. The only time I was glad I had will was the first round I played the deck, were I was behind two to one on dark confidants against grixis. But he died to bob flipping Bsc. And just to clarify the combo has no bearing on my dislike of will in this deck.

[CwaM]

won a local tournament (mirror match in the finals, card for card) with this:
        1 Library of Alexandria
        1 Polluted Delta
        1 Tolarian Academy
        2 Cavern of Souls
        2 Island
        2 Underground Sea
        4 Flooded Strand
        4 Tundra
        2 Auriok Salvagers
        2 Snapcaster Mage
        3 Trinket Mage
        4 Dark Confidant
        2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
        1 Black Lotus
        1 Engineered Explosives
        1 Mox Jet
        1 Mox Pearl
        1 Mox Ruby
        1 Mox Sapphire
        1 Nihil Spellbomb
        1 Sensei's Divining Top
        1 Sol Ring
        1 Time Vault
        1 Voltaic Key
        1 Ancestral Recall
        1 Brainstorm
        1 Thirst for Knowledge
        2 Flusterstorm
        2 Mental Misstep
        2 Swords to Plowshares
        3 Mana Drain
        4 Force of Will
        1 Demonic Tutor
        1 Time Walk
        1 Yawgmoth's Will
SB:  1 Steel Sabotage
SB:  1 Plains
SB:  1 Tormod's Crypt
SB:  1 Pithing Needle
SB:  2 Energy Flux
SB:  2 Kataki, War's Wage
SB:  2 Surgical Extraction
SB:  2 Disenchant
SB:  2 Grafdigger's Cage
SB:  1 Swords to Plowshares


Round 1:ichorid
G1 I ancestrall turn 1, yawg turn 2 into counters, and lose
G2: tormod's, cage do the job
G3 he claim my t1 tormod's crypt, dredge a lot but crappy dredges, i topdecked my black mana to go mox mox sol ring, tvault, demonic key

Round 2:Esper (dark conf, stoneforge, jace, tvault, tinker, mana drain)
G1 i fow jhis confidant and win through comboing
G2: I should have mull, he ancestrall + jace, i got bob and trinkets, kill jace, then his yawg happened
G3: i land mox U go, he went land mox walk into my drain into jace

Round 3: BUG Fish (Deathrite, bob, cutpurse) - siding out the vaultkey
G1: i lose 13 lives to my confidants (fow trinket fow) and then his shaman killed me
G2 i drain a threat into jace to win from there
G3 can't remember but win :p

Round 4:mirror ID

Top4: Oath
G1 I T1 jace (only lands in hand), he doesn't have fow and I win from there
G2, turn 1 Recall, then dark conf, disenchant his oath, win

Top 2: Mirror:
G1: T1 leaving the dream, cavern of souls mox confidant, but he has the swords. However, cavern is unbeatable
G2: i mull, he goes turn 1 confidant, I STP, then ho goes demonic into ancestrall, i misstep, then time vault key from without searching for it, like a champ


The black mana is really annoying, I've cut an island for the 4th tundra, should be the 3rd Sea
Against fishes, I missed the last StP
Don't know what to think about that yawgmoth's will (could be cut for a snap?) and LoA...
Same about time vault + key but it did well for me!

[CwaM]

Jace is hard to play under resists but you only have to pay the resistor tax once.   Snapcaster becomes really difficult to pay the resister tax since you have to pay it twice once for Snappy and again for the flashback card.

what's the difference between Jace and Snapcaster + Swrds to Plowshares?
with 1 Sphere/Golem: None
With 1 Thorn: Snapcaster +StP is cheaper

WIth 2+ Resistor: you might just can't play Jace, snapcaster would be a chump block (even though that should be irrelevant I guess)

We made 22 games yesterday against ichorid:
OTPlay I won 6-4, Rest in Peace would have been good I guess
OTD, tied 6-6, Rest in Peace would have been so bad! You really can't affort doing nothing on your first turn or you're going to die...
I was playing 2 surgical (2 snaps) and 2 cages, the non-synergic has been problematic... could not flashback surgical twice because of cage