[Premium Article] So Many Insane Plays - Grow 2K13 Primer and Tournament Report

[Smmenen]

Grow, one of my favorite archetypes of all time, is back.  And I sincerely believe its better relative to its metagame than ever.  I will explain why below.  

http://www.eternalcentral.com/?p=4193

Young Pyromancer is the best Grow creature ever printed.  As I said in the SMIP M14 Set Review Podcast, by generating tokens horizatonally rather than vertically, you gain a huge tactical and strategic advantage in this format: against Workshops, Jace, Landstill, Fish and more. Quirion Dryad can be bounced by Jace, blocked by a single creature, and removed Abrupt Decay or a Duplicant.  Pyromancer's horizontal growth is a HUGE improvement.   Quirion Dryad is barely playable, if at all. Pyromancer is one of the best creatures in the format.

Most importantly, Grow decks, I believe, have always had a gigantic advantage over almost everything in the metagame except one strategy: Workshops.  As I've said a hundred times (read my SCG articles from 2003 where I was playing Grow back then), Workshop strategies became refined only once Grow emerged -- and Workshops did so because they were so good against Grow.

This Grow deck may not be, in some objective sense, the best Grow deck of all time (since it lacks 4 Brainstorm and 4 Scroll), but I think it is so in a relative, contextual sense - that it has the best Workshop matchup of any Grow deck of all time.  Young Pyromancer offers that.  

Moreover, while it may not have the speed or consistency of a Grow deck with the full Scroll/Brainstorm package from 2007, it's alot better than it was in 2010 with Regrowth to help facilitate the Gushbond Engine.  This deck is not to the power level of 2007, but it's alot better than it was just a few years ago.  Regrowth plus Pyromancer finally elevate this archetype to the top tier once more, after a 6 year absence.  

Grow strategies contributed to Gush's restriction twice in the format's history already.  If this is the best Grow deck of all time (largely because of the strength of Pyromancer), that's fairly compelling evidence that it might prove to be one of the best decks, if not the best deck, in this metagame.  I'm also certain that it won't be long before the metagame starts to adapt to this new (or old) strategy, given the fact that I expect this thing to start doing well out of the gate.  

Since I won the Vintage Championship with this archetype, and wrote my second ever strategy article after winning a Black Lotus on this archetype, I think you'll find this article compelling and insightful.  In this article I 1) review the history of the archetype with multiple historical decklists, 2) explain in detail all of my card choices and strategic approach, and 3) provide a detailed tournament report from Eudemonia this weekend.  I also reveal the changes to my deck I have made since the tournament.  

Good luck.  Actually, I don't think you need it.  I expect this deck to win tournaments soon.

Stephen

[PETER FLUGZEUG]

Thanks for the article. I think the deck has a lot of potential. Minor nitpick: Regrowth is not affected by grafdigger's cage.

[Smmenen]

I know that -- that's how I was able to play it in Rd 1, G2. Did I say otherwise?

Thanks for the compliment on the article.

EDIT: I just noticed what happened: My editor added "(and Regrowth)" to this line: Grafdigger’s Cage is not a serious option given the centrality of Yawgmoth’s Will (and Regrowth) to this strategy.  He did that in the line edit to the 2nd draft of the article, and I didn't notice it.  

I'll tell Jaco to remove that...

Stephen

[JACO]

I know that -- that's how I was able to play it in Rd 1, G2. Did I say otherwise?

Thanks for the compliment on the article.

EDIT: I just noticed what happened: My editor added "(and Regrowth)" to this line: Grafdigger’s Cage is not a serious option given the centrality of Yawgmoth’s Will (and Regrowth) to this strategy.  He did that in the line edit to the 2nd draft of the article, and I didn't notice it.  

I'll tell Jaco to remove that...

Stephen

It's been updated. Thanks for the heads up.

[Smmenen]

Thanks guys.  

One thing I didn't mention is that this deck can always be more tailored to specific metagames.  This deck has plenty of flexibility. I just prefer this constellation of spells.  I've received a number of PMs and messages on social media with questions in that vein.  Although, I think I do a fairly complete job of defending Flusterstorm here

EDIT: Noxious Revival isn't a good substitute for Regrowth in this deck because it does not help you goldfish consistently enough. Sorry, Soly

[warr]

I rarely pay for premium content but this was a pretty good article.  I particularly liked how you drew parallels between the old and new Gush-Bond shells.  Good info for anyone wanting to port over a Gush deck.

[Smmenen]

I really appreciate the kind words. That's the note I was hoping to hit.  The historical Grow lists are an excellent reference for my card choice discussion.  Glad that worked for you.

[znoyes]

This article is a worthwhile read and the match loss was unfortunate.
Young pyromancer is the best grow creature and I'm pondering which grow-shell can utilize it best.

What are your thoughts on Burning Wish in a gush list (fetching Yawgmoth's Will, Tendrils, Timetwister/Wheel of Fortune, Thoughtseize, Smash to Smithereens, Grapeshot, and/or a value card like Maelstrom pulse)?

I'm asking this question because I think that the gush engine could be made more powerful by consolidating the functionality of many cards to fewer cards while increasing the number of "offense" spells in the main-deck (the principle that makes Dark Confidant powerful).

Building on the wish-idea, what are your thoughts on the pairing of Deathrite Shaman and Dark Confidant in Gush lists?
My thoughts were:
Deathrite offsets the life-loss from Bob, who is otherwise a powerhouse in a blue deck
if a gush deck played 9-10 fetch-lands main-deck and a wished-for Wheel of Fortune in the sideboard, shaman always taps for mana when required
that shaman allows gush to play more "mana sources" without flooding (allowing more jaces, big wish turns, etc.) and avoids the need for any basic lands.
That having wish-access to a draw-7 means that it doesn't matter so much that shaman and confidant don't chain into a yawg-will directly (as preordain, ponder, and regrowth would otherwise) because it takes fewer other slots to do so.

Thank you,

Zach

[Stormanimagus]

This article is a worthwhile read and the match loss was unfortunate.
Young pyromancer is the best grow creature and I'm pondering which grow-shell can utilize it best.

What are your thoughts on Burning Wish in a gush list (fetching Yawgmoth's Will, Tendrils, Timetwister/Wheel of Fortune, Thoughtseize, Smash to Smithereens, Grapeshot, and/or a value card like Maelstrom pulse)?

I'm asking this question because I think that the gush engine could be made more powerful by consolidating the functionality of many cards to fewer cards while increasing the number of "offense" spells in the main-deck (the principle that makes Dark Confidant powerful).

Building on the wish-idea, what are your thoughts on the pairing of Deathrite Shaman and Dark Confidant in Gush lists?
My thoughts were:
Deathrite offsets the life-loss from Bob, who is otherwise a powerhouse in a blue deck
if a gush deck played 9-10 fetch-lands main-deck and a wished-for Wheel of Fortune in the sideboard, shaman always taps for mana when required
that shaman allows gush to play more "mana sources" without flooding (allowing more jaces, big wish turns, etc.) and avoids the need for any basic lands.
That having wish-access to a draw-7 means that it doesn't matter so much that shaman and confidant don't chain into a yawg-will directly (as preordain, ponder, and regrowth would otherwise) because it takes fewer other slots to do so.

Thank you,

Zach

Do you care to go into more depth about what you'd cut to make room for Bobs AND Shamans? Other than there being no slots there are really good reasons for not running either of those cards.

1. You don't want to run Bobs because your draw engine is already robust and you have 8 + cards that flip for 5 damage to bob. Ouch. Also Bob only digs you 1 extra card by turn 2 and that won't necessarily find you land. You really want 2 lands in play on turn 2 with this deck. Preordain does a better job of finding you that than Bob. 

2. You want to run Shamans because they don't help to accelerate you to 2 lands by turn 2 the way that Preordain does. If I am spending my first turn casting D. Shaman then chances are I am NOT spending my turn 2 getting a second land drop even if I run 16 land. Digging those extra 3-4 cards with a turn 1 cantrip is often the difference in finding land #2 by turn 2 to bring Gush online.

This is why cards like Shaman and Bob ultimately don't fit in the Gush shell imo. If there was a way to fit both preordain AND Shaman in the deck then I'd consider some number of Shamans, but I just don't see what you'd cut to make room.

-Storm

[Smmenen]

This article is a worthwhile read and the match loss was unfortunate.
Young pyromancer is the best grow creature and I'm pondering which grow-shell can utilize it best.

What are your thoughts on Burning Wish in a gush list (fetching Yawgmoth's Will, Tendrils, Timetwister/Wheel of Fortune, Thoughtseize, Smash to Smithereens, Grapeshot, and/or a value card like Maelstrom pulse)?

I'm asking this question because I think that the gush engine could be made more powerful by consolidating the functionality of many cards to fewer cards while increasing the number of "offense" spells in the main-deck (the principle that makes Dark Confidant powerful).

Building on the wish-idea, what are your thoughts on the pairing of Deathrite Shaman and Dark Confidant in Gush lists?
My thoughts were:
Deathrite offsets the life-loss from Bob, who is otherwise a powerhouse in a blue deck
if a gush deck played 9-10 fetch-lands main-deck and a wished-for Wheel of Fortune in the sideboard, shaman always taps for mana when required
that shaman allows gush to play more "mana sources" without flooding (allowing more jaces, big wish turns, etc.) and avoids the need for any basic lands.
That having wish-access to a draw-7 means that it doesn't matter so much that shaman and confidant don't chain into a yawg-will directly (as preordain, ponder, and regrowth would otherwise) because it takes fewer other slots to do so.

Thank you,

Zach

You pose good questions. 

1)  Regarding your first point, about which Gush shell best utilizes Young Pyromancer, I think it's fairly clear that the answer is a Grow shell.  I don't see Young Pyromancer being strategically useful in other Gush shells - it's even hard to imagine what that might look like.

2) Burning Wish is a very powerful card in Vintage, and can be used very well as a toolbox Tutor in the way you suggest.  However, it would require a radical redesign.  Burning Wish does not complement Young Pyromancer or a Grow shell, but could be used in a different Gush approach.  Burning Wish is a Gush playable card, but would have to be designed around.  See Nat Moes Gushstorm deck for a starting point. 

3) Deathrite Shaman and Dark Confidant can be used with Gush decks, but optimize neither for reasons in this article, my Gushbook, and that Storm just mentioned. 

[ErtaiAdept]

My main question for you is in regard to the mana count.  I played a small amount of Gro-a-tog back in the day and at this point the details of my mana base are forgotten.   That being said 20 mana sources seems incredibly low.  I would certainly be afraid of facing wasteland and shops in general with that few sources. 

I understand that the cantrips are in there to help smooth your draws out and get you to those mana sources but on the draw against shops you may never get the chance to cast them.  I'd be interested to hear your comments.

[Smmenen]

My main question for you is in regard to the mana count.  I played a small amount of Gro-a-tog back in the day and at this point the details of my mana base are forgotten.   That being said 20 mana sources seems incredibly low.  I would certainly be afraid of facing wasteland and shops in general with that few sources. 

I understand that the cantrips are in there to help smooth your draws out and get you to those mana sources but on the draw against shops you may never get the chance to cast them.  I'd be interested to hear your comments.

This is a very difficult question to answer.   20 mana sources is low, but tends to be at the upper end of historical Grow decks.

I'm not sure if you read the article or not, but the section on the Mana Base draws repeated parallels to the three historical Grow decks (from 2003, 2007, and 2010) that I presented.  Each of those Grow decks had 14 lands.   The only thing that changed among all four of the lists I presented is the configuration of dual lands.  The truth is that each of those lists has had to contend with the threat of a Sphere on turn 1.  Even 2003 Grow decks had to contend with that possibility.   So, my first response to this concern is to remind folks that this is not a new concern.  When I won the Vintage Championship in 2007, I played lots of Workshop decks, including Raf Forino, who played tons of Spheres, and beat him.  While they didn't have the same quantity of Spheres in 2007, the key point, turn one Sphere, with a one land hand, is the problem, since it prevents you from cantripping into the second land.

The second thing I'd point out is that my sideboard has another basic land, just as I ran in almost all of those lists.  My 2007 Grow list had a basic Island in the sideboard.  My 2010 Grow list had a basic Island and Forest in the sb.  This list has a basic Mountain in the sideboard.  This is as much there for Wasteland as it is Spheres.  This leads to a third point: if you really are concerned about the mana base and being on the draw against Shops, I would recommend a 2nd SB land rather than another land in the maindeck. 

The fourth thing I'd say is that you shouldn't keep a one land hand on the draw against Shops.  It's just not kosher.  If you have a one land hand, that's not going to get you there in most cases. 

The final thing I'd say is this: the solution to this "problem" is worse than the problem.  If you try to solve Workshops by expanding the mana base, you eliminate the natural advantages of Gush, and reduce the reasons for playing a Gush deck in the first place.  I played Workshops all over the tournament, as you can see from my report, and did pretty well against them -- also did well in testing.   My sideboard is also ridiculously stacked for the Worshop matchup, with Chewers, Claims, etc.  I am comfortable playing against Workshops all day, just as I did in the tournament. 

[ErtaiAdept]

My main question for you is in regard to the mana count.  I played a small amount of Gro-a-tog back in the day and at this point the details of my mana base are forgotten.   That being said 20 mana sources seems incredibly low.  I would certainly be afraid of facing wasteland and shops in general with that few sources. 

I understand that the cantrips are in there to help smooth your draws out and get you to those mana sources but on the draw against shops you may never get the chance to cast them.  I'd be interested to hear your comments.

This is a very difficult question to answer.   20 mana sources is low, but tends to be at the upper end of historical Grow decks.

I'm not sure if you read the article or not, but the section on the Mana Base draws repeated parallels to the three historical Grow decks (from 2003, 2007, and 2010) that I presented.  Each of those Grow decks had 14 lands.   The only thing that changed among all four of the lists I presented is the configuration of dual lands.  The truth is that each of those lists has had to contend with the threat of a Sphere on turn 1.  Even 2003 Grow decks had to contend with that possibility.   So, my first response to this concern is to remind folks that this is not a new concern.  When I won the Vintage Championship in 2007, I played lots of Workshop decks, including Raf Forino, who played tons of Spheres, and beat him.  While they didn't have the same quantity of Spheres in 2007, the key point, turn one Sphere, with a one land hand, is the problem, since it prevents you from cantripping into the second land.

The second thing I'd point out is that my sideboard has another basic land, just as I ran in almost all of those lists.  My 2007 Grow list had a basic Island in the sideboard.  My 2010 Grow list had a basic Island and Forest in the sb.  This list has a basic Mountain in the sideboard.  This is as much there for Wasteland as it is Spheres.  This leads to a third point: if you really are concerned about the mana base and being on the draw against Shops, I would recommend a 2nd SB land rather than another land in the maindeck. 

The fourth thing I'd say is that you shouldn't keep a one land hand on the draw against Shops.  It's just not kosher.  If you have a one land hand, that's not going to get you there in most cases. 

The final thing I'd say is this: the solution to this "problem" is worse than the problem.  If you try to solve Workshops by expanding the mana base, you eliminate the natural advantages of Gush, and reduce the reasons for playing a Gush deck in the first place.  I played Workshops all over the tournament, as you can see from my report, and did pretty well against them -- also did well in testing.   My sideboard is also ridiculously stacked for the Worshop matchup, with Chewers, Claims, etc.  I am comfortable playing against Workshops all day, just as I did in the tournament. 

I did read the article and enjoyed it.  And I get completely what you're saying about removing the benefits of gush by adding more lands.  The mulligan decision is an obvious one when you are faced with a 1 land hand, but as a follow up question I would ask if you, in your testing, have encountered a need to mulligan often and how far? (ie: 6,5 4?)

[znoyes]

This is in response to comments by Storm and Steve:

Thinking about Steve's comments, the inclusions mentioned do require a large amount of redesign and are not topical to this thread (I will post a list soon on the deck discussion section): The Gush engine that Steve builds in his article is powerful: it represents an insurmountable amount of card advantage for essentially no mana investment and assembles itself as such early in the game and can win in one big turn. The idea I was presenting was that Gush as a card can be powerful if it is not relied upon as "the engine" (as RUG uses it), but nonetheless can be used as an engine in a critical turn (as Steve's deck uses it). Storm's comments about the "cantrip" approach more easily assembling the Gush engine are accurate. The point I am making is that ability to play powerful creatures (and more Jace) that still supplement the gush engine makes it difficult for opponents to deal with (attacking simultaneously from 2 to 3 angles strains any kind of resistance an opposing deck could pose).

I looked at the Gushstorm list by Nat Moes.
I see that the oath combo is compact enough to allow playing the good blue cantrips as well as burning wish.

Zach

[Varal]

Young Pyromancer might be resistant to Engineered Explosive but I've a feeling that this deck might cause an increase in Balance, Pyroclasm, Rough//Tumble or Rolling Earthquake.

[Samoht]

Young Pyromancer might be resistant to Engineered Explosive but I've a feeling that this deck might cause an increase in Balance, Pyroclasm, Rough//Tumble or Rolling Earthquake.

Volcanic Fallout. I've been parading the card around lately, it's quite well positioned right now.

[vaughnbros]

Young Pyromancer might be resistant to Engineered Explosive but I've a feeling that this deck might cause an increase in Balance, Pyroclasm, Rough//Tumble or Rolling Earthquake.

Volcanic Fallout. I've been parading the card around lately, it's quite well positioned right now.

Fallout is good, but can't be played optimally if you have dudes yourself.  I personally like Izzet Staticaster because its blue, has a recurable ability, and doesn't necessarily hit your own guys.  The credit for that find goes to Shawn Tappen.

Engineered plague is another goodie for decks not running red.

[ChronoExile]

Engineered plague is another goodie for decks not running red.

While it only hits the tokens, Illness in the Ranks should get a passing mention here.  I understand being more narrow makes it worse in the board against tribal synergies and its vulnerability to Mental Misstep.  However, it does have the advantage of being cast more reliably on turn one against Young Pyromancer strategies.

[Samoht]

Young Pyromancer might be resistant to Engineered Explosive but I've a feeling that this deck might cause an increase in Balance, Pyroclasm, Rough//Tumble or Rolling Earthquake.

Volcanic Fallout. I've been parading the card around lately, it's quite well positioned right now.

Fallout is good, but can't be played optimally if you have dudes yourself.  I personally like Izzet Staticaster because its blue, has a recurable ability, and doesn't necessarily hit your own guys.  The credit for that find goes to Shawn Tappen.

Engineered plague is another goodie for decks not running red.

I've been playing it in Strixis for the better part of a month and it's been quite optimal for me. The collateral damage is worth the uncounterability. Don't forget the bonus splash of being able to redirect the 2 damage to a Planeswalker.

[vaughnbros]

Young Pyromancer might be resistant to Engineered Explosive but I've a feeling that this deck might cause an increase in Balance, Pyroclasm, Rough//Tumble or Rolling Earthquake.

Volcanic Fallout. I've been parading the card around lately, it's quite well positioned right now.

Fallout is good, but can't be played optimally if you have dudes yourself.  I personally like Izzet Staticaster because its blue, has a recurable ability, and doesn't necessarily hit your own guys.  The credit for that find goes to Shawn Tappen.

Engineered plague is another goodie for decks not running red.

I've been playing it in Strixis for the better part of a month and it's been quite optimal for me. The collateral damage is worth the uncounterability. Don't forget the bonus splash of being able to redirect the 2 damage to a Planeswalker.

Quite and optimal don't actually go together.  In decks running caverns, staticaster can also be uncounterable.  The 2 damage could potentially be a drawback against aggro builds. 

I think the best comparison would be shattering spree compared with viashino heretic against shops.  One is overwhelmingly powerful at a single moment and the other dominates the board until answered.  So it really depends on what your deck is looking for.

[Samoht]

Young Pyromancer might be resistant to Engineered Explosive but I've a feeling that this deck might cause an increase in Balance, Pyroclasm, Rough//Tumble or Rolling Earthquake.

Volcanic Fallout. I've been parading the card around lately, it's quite well positioned right now.

Fallout is good, but can't be played optimally if you have dudes yourself.  I personally like Izzet Staticaster because its blue, has a recurable ability, and doesn't necessarily hit your own guys.  The credit for that find goes to Shawn Tappen.

Engineered plague is another goodie for decks not running red.

I've been playing it in Strixis for the better part of a month and it's been quite optimal for me. The collateral damage is worth the uncounterability. Don't forget the bonus splash of being able to redirect the 2 damage to a Planeswalker.

Quite and optimal don't actually go together.  In decks running caverns, staticaster can also be uncounterable.  The 2 damage could potentially be a drawback against aggro builds. 

I think the best comparison would be shattering spree compared with viashino heretic against shops.  One is overwhelmingly powerful at a single moment and the other dominates the board until answered.  So it really depends on what your deck is looking for.

They actually do. Quite: completely, wholly, or entirely Optimal: favorable, desirable

Needing another card to be uncounterable can be a problem. RR is also a problem though. I think you are neglecting the 2 point of damage to creatures though. Killing Deathrite Shaman, Trinket Mage, Mishra's Factory, Mutavault, etc. is significantly relevant.

[Smmenen]

As a Grow Pilot, I would gladly make any of those trades.  The real prize is assembing the Gushbond engine and recurring Time Walks with Regrowth or executing a lethal Will.  Slow board sweepers like Volcanic Fallout are also a strong incentive to include Duress effects, as discussed here. 

Grow decks have little problem with control strategies. The issue has always been Workshops, which Pyro man helps enormously.

[Stoyrm]

Really liked the article and the deck. It's been really sweet. I did however not enjoy the third Regrowth. I changed it into a Lightning Bolt so i have a theoretical answer to Bob or Deathrite. Not tested it enough yet though. Also gives me a mystical tutor target that i can cast for two mana under a Lodestone Golem i suppose. I also changed the 2nd Ancient Grudge into a Nature's Claim. Allows me to have a one mana answer against Chalice for 2 or if you want to tutor for an answer to a sphere of resistance or lodestone golem on turn 2. Got to test more though!

[Smmenen]

Paul M texted me that he got top 8 with my deck today. More top 8s!

[Tempus]

Why do you use the Leyline of the Void as your Dredge hate in Gush/Grow decks? The draw and filtering engine is really strong, so I'd prefer to not have to mulligan to find my Dredge hate but instead find a strong hand, that actually supports my game plan. I usually go for something like 2-3 Yixlid Jailer, 2 Tormod's Crypt (or Nihil Spellbomb) and some assortment of Ravenous Trap and Pithing Needle. Playing another draw engine (Confidant or just Jace + restricted) I use Leyline too, but with Gush it does not make sense to me.

[Smmenen]

That is always a difficult balancing act -- to try to balance the sheer superiority of Leyline as a general matter against the more limited, but situationally better utility of non-Leyline measures.   This is a configuration I have found to be useful over many years of testing and play, and have yet to lose a match to Dredge with it.  Consequently, I see little incentive to change. 

[voltron00x]

I think Leyline makes sense with the counter and draw engine in the deck.  This deck seems well suited to a "find Leyline, protect Leyline" gameplan.

[Tempus]

I think Leyline makes sense with the counter and draw engine in the deck.  This deck seems well suited to a "find Leyline, protect Leyline" gameplan.

Exactly with the counters and the draw engine I'm asking myself if it's a good plan to hope to draw a Leyline in the opening hand instead of thinking "I'll find my hate in the first two turns with all the cards I'll see by then".

If you run a Leyline + 2 Jailer would you keep a hand of Fetch, Sapphire, Recall, Gush, FoW, Preordain, MM in Game 2 against Dredge? I wouldn't (and actually haven't) because the chance of finding Jailer is pretty slim and hardcasting a Leyline is not really possible before turn 3. With another setup of hate, like I mentioned, this is a snap keep for me.

[Smmenen]

No, you wouldn't keep that hand.  But I wouldn't feel very comfortable with that hand with a Nihil Spellbomb, either. 

[voltron00x]

No, you wouldn't keep that hand.  But I wouldn't feel very comfortable with that hand with a Nihil Spellbomb, either. 

Exactly, that type of one-shot stuff isn't what you want with a deck like this.  Or, if you use it, you need to up the quantity.  Playing cards like Leyline/Jailer that shut Dredge down when protected are more in line with what this deck wants, especially since they dodge Ingot Chewer and Mental Misstep (and Jailer in particular doesn't see much play and is very effective currently).  I would say that if Dredge were really popular, adding a 7th hate card makes sense, but if you're going to play 6 this is a reasonable strategy. 

The only drawback, as was noted above, is this deck isn't exactly terrific at actually casting Leyline.  So, that's somewhat unfortunate.