Rumors/Previews/mtg.com articles

[Bill Copes]

Sexy.

[Norm4eva]

Sexy.

Wah wah waaaah.

New Slivers are just kind of a slap in the biscuits, aren't they.  They don't look like old Slivers, they don't act like old Slivers... the only thing that makes them Slivers is their creature type.  I'm all for innovation but Slivers work on certain principles.  This makes them identical to every other modern tribe ever, except they exist in too many colors.

[Oath of Happy]

Sexy.

Wah wah waaaah.

New Slivers are just kind of a slap in the biscuits, aren't they.  They don't look like old Slivers, they don't act like old Slivers... the only thing that makes them Slivers is their creature type.  I'm all for innovation but Slivers work on certain principles.  This makes them identical to every other modern tribe ever, except they exist in too many colors.

Agreed, what a dumb, ugly magic card.

[Norm4eva]

Sexy.

Wah wah waaaah.

New Slivers are just kind of a slap in the biscuits, aren't they.  They don't look like old Slivers, they don't act like old Slivers... the only thing that makes them Slivers is their creature type.  I'm all for innovation but Slivers work on certain principles.  This makes them identical to every other modern tribe ever, except they exist in too many colors.

Agreed, what a dumb, ugly magic card.

Well I mean obviously this is not a real card, I was more talking about the recently spoiled ones for m14.



Like how in a fuck is that in any way a Sliver.  It only works on "slivers you control", it is a crappy humanoid shape... it just says "Sliver" in the creature type.  Boo.  Dumb.

[Norm4eva]

So, Theros.

Thassa, God of the Sea 

Legendary Enchantment Creature — God   
Indestructible
As long as your devotion to blue is less than five, Thassa isn’t a creature. (Each in the mana costs of permanents you control adds to your devotion to blue.)
At the beginning of your upkeep, scry 1.
: Target creature you control can't be blocked this turn.

I'm not talking specifically about this card, but it is an example of something which, given so many of the recent trends towards putting out goofy fatties with crazy abilities - Emrakuls and Blightsteels and other dorks - Enchantment Creatures open up an interesting new potential win condition in your friend and mine, Academy Rector.  They don't all have this Devotion ability (as spoiled thus far anyway) and I hate to engage in too much speculation, but by the same token the idea of playing with Rector as a 4-of "Tinker --> Fatty" does sort of breathe some new life into the card.

There hasn't really been a bonkers Eternal-worthy win condition spoiled yet, so again I am probably just premature on this - and enchantment creatures are not exactly the most resilient permanent types to be basing your wins off.  I'm almost certainly not the first person to have realized the potential for Rector to get a couple of new tools during this block. It's just speculative for now, but it is interesting to think about.

[Bill Copes]

I'm not saying it's amazing, but this one card does like, 800 things.  I find this fascinating.

[Prospero]

I don't understand why it needed to be an enchantment and an artifact. 

[wiley]

Solely for flavor reasons.  The god that uses it is a "living enchantment" so it's weapon is just as ethereal as it is...

Kind of stupid if you ask me, but whatever.

[Greg]

This is Magic:

[TVand]

I don't understand why it needed to be an enchantment and an artifact. 

Mechanically, 'Attacking creatures you control have deathtouch' is the kind of effect one sees on enchantments and not artifacts these days, and the tap ability would obviously only ever show up on an artifact.  So it does have aspects of both.

I also appreciate the flavor behind the design - Nylea is known to be the God of the seasons, and the four abilities mirror that:
spring - new growth (+1/+1)
summer - storms (damage to fliers)
fall - the bounty of the harvest (lifegain)
winter - nutrients returning to the earth in preparation for future years (Gaea's Blessing effect)

[Norm4eva]

I don't understand why it needed to be an enchantment and an artifact. 

The card does things which are typically associated with either card type, so honestly I think it's fair.

A quick Gatherer search for "Creatures you control" yields 25 hits for artifacts and 83 for enchantments. While it does show up on some artifacts it is much more of an enchantment effect. Or if you see it on an artifact it is usually "If creatures you control are tapped, [effect]. Else, [otherEffect]." Or it sticks to artifact creatures or Myr or something. It isn't generally a blanket effect, forgiving things like Eldrazi Monument and/or Akroma's Memorial.

Also, enchantments rarely tap. A handful of enchantments tap but it's definitely weird. A lot of players, me included, tend to tap attached permanents when declaring attacks.  So I could see how it'd be a little bit awkward to expect solo enchantments to just start tapping when classically they don't unless someone's a dick and casts [cards]Dream's Grip[/cards] on your [cards]Bad Moon[/cards].

I don't think it's nearly as big a flavor fail as people are making it out to be. Though I do think it is weird to make a card which is clearly based on someone's legendary equipment, and not just make it a Legendary Equipment card. I guess maybe they are too big for mortal creatures to handle, but that's dumb, they could just use like a "This can only be attached to a God." line of text or something, and maintain the flavor moving forward. But then I guess like Chameleon Colossus and friends could wear it too. Fuck it. I dunno.

[The Atog Lord]

I really like this, flavor-wise. The weapon is so powerful that just having it around makes your minions become deadly. You don't need to be wielding it directly to have an effect -- its mere presence has an impact. Sort of a holy relic. On the other hand, it is so powerful that only you, the Planeswalker, can wield it (represented through tapping mana). For a weapon that has achieved relic status, its being both an artifact (because it is, of course, an artifact) and an enchantment (because it is powerful enough to warp reality around it) makes sense.

[Explosive Engineer]

I really like this, flavor-wise. The weapon is so powerful that just having it around makes your minions become deadly. You don't need to be wielding it directly to have an effect -- its mere presence has an impact. Sort of a holy relic. On the other hand, it is so powerful that only you, the Planeswalker, can wield it (represented through tapping mana). For a weapon that has achieved relic status, its being both an artifact (because it is, of course, an artifact) and an enchantment (because it is powerful enough to warp reality around it) makes sense.

Rich, you are clearly a classics minor.

[The Atog Lord]

Rich, you are clearly a classics minor.

Ha! Actually, I was a classics major. My undergraduate degree from Brown is in Computer Science and Classics. And, yes, I am really looking forward to Theros!

[H]

So this exists now.  I, personally, will laugh my ass off if I ever see this exile a Tinker target.

[Grand Inquisitor]

Curse of the Swine

Oh good, now I don't need to splash for white or black.

[Bill Copes]

Curse of the Swine

Oh good, now I don't need to splash for white or black.

And those decks always want to play Engineered Explosives, so this is pretty baller.  This is a good card in a couple of decks.  Particularly, the ones that have trouble handling Goyfs and other scary things bigger than 2/1's with rad abilities.  Even still, it turns those 2/1's into vanilla ice cream.

I love new cards.

[DubDub]

Just saw on MTGS that there is a planeswalker in Theros yet to be spoiled.  Treat this as unconfirmed, but it could be an incredible Vintage card potentially.  (It probably mills and scry-1s....)

[Bill Copes]

Anyone else generally disappointed with how Theros looks?  I know my expectations are horribly skewed because I only play vintage, but I was really hoping for a new mechanic or card that would be vintage playable.  Heroic?  All those spells in vintage that you target your own creatures with! . . . oh, there are none.  Sea-drake-snag?  Yay, another counterspell that's equally as playable as all the other ones that cost U.  Thoughtsieze reprint?  Glad I dumped mine 2 months ago.  They didn't even really give us a good scry card.

Perhaps the next set will bless us with something more exciting than an enchant mountain.

[DubDub]

I haven't seen it on MTGS, but on the Source they're talking about a mini-Progenitus Merfolk:

Nemesis of Identity 1UU
 Merfolk rogue
 As ~~ enters the battlefield, choose a player.
 ~~ has protection from chosen player (It can't be blocked, targeted, damaged, enchanted by a source controlled by this player)
 3/1.

That's pretty dang resilient.  Cavern-Merfolk a possibility?

Edit: It wasn't in the confirmed spoiler page on MTGS, but the (francophone) card image has a thread in the forums.

[DubDub]

Strategic Planning and Lim-Dul's Vault reprints?  Awesome.

[AmbivalentDuck]

Strategic Planning and Lim-Dul's Vault reprints?  Awesome.

I'm more excited by the Control Magic reprint. I'm no fan of the Beta art and I'll be happy to get it out of my cube.

[DubDub]

Strategic Planning and Lim-Dul's Vault reprints?  Awesome.

I'm more excited by the Control Magic reprint. I'm no fan of the Beta art and I'll be happy to get it out of my cube.

Acquiring a card for the first time (Planning, for me) >>>>>>> new art for already-owned card.  IMHO

[wiley]

the mind seize deck is awesome.  strat planning, strix, new lim duls vault art, new arcane denial art, cruel ultimatum reprint, new prosperity art, non crappy foil version of the new sol ring art, that new merfolk thingy ... seems worth the msrp to me.

[Nefarias]

the mind seize deck is awesome.  strat planning, strix, new lim duls vault art, new arcane denial art, cruel ultimatum reprint, new prosperity art, non crappy foil version of the new sol ring art, that new merfolk thingy ... seems worth the msrp to me.

The Arcane Denial is in the Bant deck and the Lim-Dul's Vault is in the Esper deck. Still, based on the Merfolk guy and Strix alone the Grixis does seem like the one to get value-wise.

[Norm4eva]

So much of my Eternal playing has been strictly EDH over the last 2 years, for a number of reasons, so I'm kinda stoked to see new product.

I have no idea if True-Name Nemesis (the 3/1 for 1UU with protection from target opponent) matters a damn in Vintage. People are conflicted about it in Legacy; it's either strictly worse than Vendilion Clique or it's a ridiculous target for fat pants, be they Equipment or Auras or whatever.

I think it's a mistake to print that guy in Blue first and foremost - the explanations from people like Mark Rosewater as to why it's okay for this to be Blue instead of White is "well, White gets protection from colors, Blue gets protection from other things. We just haven't really told anyone or explored it very well until right now." The leap from Riptide Biologist (protection from Beasts) to "protection from everything an opponent controls" is astronomical. It's clearly more potent than any protection from a color effect in 1v1 - but printing it in EDH sets lets them say "Oh, no, see -- this card is terrible! A 3/1 in Commander? With protection from only one player? It's so bad you guys!"

Even as a 1WW 2/2 this would kind of still just be frustrating, right? An uber-Paladin en Vec would have the same issues as this guy; it's just uninteractive. You have to gank it on the stack; otherwise it's incredibly difficult to just kill apart from "just winning", which IIRC is a lot easier in Vintage than Legacy. And so you just play whatever cute Aura or Equip that is otherwise unplayable and just Get There.

I do not think it is broken -- I just think it is clumsy and non-interactive and in the wrong color. I'm an avid, senseless White Weenie fan; and White Weenie's problem for years has been that its strongest creatures are generally metagame calls. My age is showing, but it's like -- oh, Goblins is everywhere? Silver Knight. Wait, Suicide Black got you down? White Knight. Every hatebear for years was so linear in scope that there was no auto-include until, like, Stoneforge Mystic? Maybe Mother of Runes; but she does one thing, she protects the relevant beaters, so she's only as good as the creatures she support, right? So, True-Name Nemesis as a White card would have had all the same problems as a Blue card, except (a) it'd be in the right color (b) it wouldn't pitch to Force of Will (c) it would pretty much be an auto 4-of in White Weenie decks as a replacement for random metagame protection knights. Turn 1 Thalia, turn 2 uber-Paladin would have been a fucking stellar White Weenie line of play.

Anyway, that aside, some of the other Eternal plants are pretty cool. Unexpectedly Absent is a nice little instant Vindicate in a format full of cards that force us to shuffle (fetchlands, tutors, etc). And Oloro is easily the most intriguing Commander in the set; the rest have interactions with being re-cast from the command zone which all just lead to Food Chain/infinite mana shenanigans for the instant win. I'll break out the two-card combo deck when the table and players seem to be that cut-throat, but for most games of EDH people would rather just watch battlecruisers bash into each other for an hour. At least with Oloro one can sit back and gain life and draw some cards.

On the whole I like these precons a lot, and I'll probably be going for Oloro before any of the rest.

[Godder]

Eh, Legacy especially has cards that deal with that type of guy. Sure, you can't target him yourself with spells, but all creatures get -1/-1,  EQ/pyroclasm effects and Diabolic Edict cards still deal with him. Depending on the card, you may even be able to just block him or ping with Tim effects.

[DubDub]

Eh, Legacy especially has cards that deal with that type of guy. Sure, you can't target him yourself with spells, but all creatures get -1/-1,  EQ/pyroclasm effects and Diabolic Edict cards still deal with him. Depending on the card, you may even be able to just block him or ping with Tim effects.

Protection from a player apparently includes sources that player controls.  So, a) pyroclasm's damage gets prevented because it's a spell you control, b) can't block him with a creature you control, and c) can't ping him with a Tim you control.  You also can't bounce/kill with Jace/Chandra either since they're planeswalkers you control.

I think the "or sources that player controls" part is the absurd part.  Should be super-shroud without being unblockable assassin + indestructible wall all in one.

[Norm4eva]

Eh, Legacy especially has cards that deal with that type of guy. Sure, you can't target him yourself with spells, but all creatures get -1/-1,  EQ/pyroclasm effects and Diabolic Edict cards still deal with him. Depending on the card, you may even be able to just block him or ping with Tim effects.

Protection from a player apparently includes sources that player controls.  So, a) pyroclasm's damage gets prevented because it's a spell you control, b) can't block him with a creature you control, and c) can't ping him with a Tim you control.  You also can't bounce/kill with Jace/Chandra either since they're planeswalkers you control.

I think the "or sources that player controls" part is the absurd part.  Should be super-shroud without being unblockable assassin + indestructible wall all in one.

Yeah, that's the part that kills me. "Protection from [a thing]" has always strictly meant "can't be damaged, enchanted, blocked or targeted by [a thing]". So it seems like protection from a player should just be a logical extension of that - if my opponent plays True-Name Nemesis and selects me, I as a player should be unable to target, enchant, or damage that creature (or block, I guess? Players ain't block but whatever). It shouldn't affect my creatures or spells that can interact incidentally whatsoever - it would be logical that I could Pyroclasm it, but because pro-player is apparently more special than regular protection effects, that's a no-go.

It isn't exactly the same but it'd be like, if you had a White Knight in play and someone had a Black creature with some ability that said, "2B: Put a 3/3 Blue Donkey Horror creature token onto the battlefield." then implicitly White Knight would have protection from the Blue creature token too, because a Black source controlled the effect, and "White Knight has protection from black. Duuuh."

So really, the subset of cards which actively deal with a "protection from player" effect are really, really small and have a lot to do with context. Edicts could work if you catch it on an empty board - but we're thinking this guy goes in like Bant/Stoneblade/Merfolk, so the chances that it lives by itself on the battlefield are pretty small, there will almost certainly be a Noble Hierarch or Stoneforge Mystic in play or something that doesn't have protection from a player. -X/-X effects are probably good, but again - what deck are we talking about here. Stoneblade? Might catch him as a 3/1 before he suits up with a Sword of A and B. Merfolk? Forget about it, him and his friends all have +2/+2 already, you gotta pack something that scales better than Golgari Charm or Infest. Of course Wraths will work, but (a) if not Supreme Verdict, you're fighting countermagic cuz you know, Blue spells (and really with a mini-Progenitus in play, how many spells do you actually need to counter besides the "True-Name sideboard tech"?) (b) the best Wrath effects cost 4, which is a fuckton for casting not-Jace in Legacy. Wrath has classically been shitty in Legacy.

Really the best place to catch it is on the stack. Don't think too much just REB that shit, amirite? So you have to beat Blue at its own game. Sweet.

I don't want to take too big a "world view" of the problem, but consider that Legacy already has this reputation for being incredibly varied and so whether or not it's actually true that Anything Goes as long as it has Forces and duals, everything under the sun just shows up to play. There's an amount of non-specific sideboarding one can do to prepare but ultimately, you have to know your metagame or else you can just be blind by something you have no tech for. The series of cards which directly address True-Name Nemesis will depend on the setting TNN is in.

It also kind of has a Tarmogoyf effect, right -- there's a lot of Blue dudes that aren't even worth thinking about now because they don't have protection from target player. Goyf continues to keep a lot of really awesome creatures - not just Green creatures, but creatures period - out of both Vintage and Legacy.

Again, I am not saying the format breaks under the weight of this guy -- I think I sound like I'm overstating its brokenness. I'm not. It's just a creature, it's a 3-mana spell that gives you a good clock and a hell of a wall but it does not end the game without using the punch phase. I just mean that it is such a weird little pain in the dick creature, and really I just don't think it is Blue at all, but whatever.

[MaximumCDawg]

"It also kind of has a Tarmogoyf effect, right -- there's a lot of Blue dudes that aren't even worth thinking about now because they don't have protection from target player. Goyf continues to keep a lot of really awesome creatures - not just Green creatures, but creatures period - out of both Vintage and Legacy."

This is not all downside.  As the herd flocks to a new standard, some very good but slightly different cards might be easier to pick up.  For example, if Legacy flocks to Nemesis en masse, then maybe Clique will drop in price.