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Author Topic: Human Ingenuity  (Read 90432 times)
brianpk80
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« on: November 24, 2013, 05:43:24 pm »

This is a small update on a new Humans deck with a mini-report and from the Vintage event in Mythic Games in Elmira on 11/23/13. 21 people attended.  I finished in the Top 4 after winning each game in the Swiss.  

Humanstorm (60)



Creatures (14):
4 Dark Confidant
3 Notion Thief
2 Grand Abolisher
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Noble Hierarch
1 Trinket Mage

Artifacts (12):
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Memory Jar
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key

Instants (7):
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
2 Mental Misstep
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Repeal
1 Hurkyl's Recall

Planeswalker (1):
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Sorceries (7):
1 Tinker
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Tendrils of Agony

Land (19):
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Flooded Strand
2 City of Brass
2 Underground Sea
1 Tundra
1 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Tolarian Academy

Sideboard (15):
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Rest in Peace
2 Flusterstorm
2 Disenchant
1 Steel Sabotage
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Ophiomancer
1 War Priest of Thune
1 Karakas

---------

While the idea of drawing 14 cards while Mind Twisting someone sounds like something that could only exist in the notorious "Magical Christmasland" of Vintage fantasies, it turns out in practice that it's not as unreachable or unviable as it may initially seem. The list here draws inspiration from many sources, including TPS, Bomberman, Grand Vault, and a memorable experience months ago as a spectator on Cockatrice for a series of matches where Mike Solymossy obscenely annihilated his Gush opponent using a Steel City Vault list running 2 Notion Thieves main.  As starting point for exploration, I began with a 5C Burning Oath-like mana base and ran loads of Draw 7's, Cavern of Souls, Notion Thieves, Grand Abolisher, Snapcaster, and several different combos and cards simply to see which ones would work out in practice, including Divining Witch/Consultation/Lab Man, Skullclamp shenanigans, Prosperity, Whispering Madness, Burning Wish, Empty the Warrens, and Mind Twist.  I then made a companion deck that was purely Esper and far more conservative and used Jaces while still including the Thieves and Abolisher, with the Auriok Salvagers kill. Gradually, from seeing differences in playing each, with each tuning the Esper variant became more audacious and the 5C version became less grandiose and in the end I settled on the Esper version.  That said, while testing against a friend here at home I found I still wanted the acceleration and color fixing the Noble Hierarchs provide so I Tropicalized one of the Islands and weaved two Nobles back in by dropping Lotus Petal and something else.  So it became 4 colors.  From there, I would make minor tweaks and debated whether the final two slots should be Auriok + Spellbomb or Time Vault + Voltaic Key and went with the latter primarily because of its overall lower converted mana cost.

The key discoveries were:

1. Notion Thief + Draw 7 is comparable to RiP + Helm in the sense that once assembled, the interaction generally ends the game on the spot and both combo pieces are strong/disruptive on their own.  Thief's Flash ability and protection from countermagic by Cavern of Souls help enable fluid transitions.
2. Snapcaster Mage is surprisingly enhanced when its palette of potential targets expands to include Draw 7's and Tendrils of Agony.  
3. Tendrils of Agony is better for life gain/stabilizing in Combo Humans decks than Stoneforge Mystic.  
4. Cavern -> Abolisher will still suddenly (and shockingly) win games that a pilot would otherwise have no business of winning.
5. Trinket Mage into Black Lotus is a functional play in Storm combo.
6. Mikokoro, Center of the Sea is an engine with Notion Thief but more importantly is easy to use on its own in a way that makes the benefit asymmetrical.  
7. Windfall unfortunately is nowhere near as good as Timetwister, Wheel of Fortune, or Memory Jar.
8. The information gained by Gitaxian Probe is game-shifting.  I would run more except that space is tight and they can lead to sketchy mulligan decisions.  

Some people have asked why Noble Hierarch is chosen over Deathrite Shaman when the latter is more versatile and usually a stronger overall card.  There are many reasons but the prime one is reliability of mana generation.  Deathrite cannot be played off Cavern of Souls naming Human and in a deck without Wastelands, I don't want the mana production to be contingent solely upon me or my opponent cracking a fetchland.  Additionally, with so many people playing the card, I can't afford to get into Shaman battles over mana ("remove your Delta"/"response, I remove my Delta" etc.) and finally, the Exalted boost for combat superiority is relevant in killing Jaces in one hit with Snapcasters or sending a 3/3 Trinket Mage/Abolisher into hostile territory.  It also bears noting that Deathrite Shaman is not great with Timetwister.

So that is a brief intro for Humanstorm.  

Event Report:

Round 1 - Kevin on Oath of Druids 2-0

Game 1, He won the die roll, mulled to 6, and led with Mox Emerald, Library of Alexandria, Oath of Druids.  I had a Dark Confidant in hand that I refrained from playing since he did not have Orchard.  I held back my creatures while he got up to Library zone but I played Mikokoro to keep parity.  He would go to 8 cards w. LoA, then play a land/Mox, I'd use Mikokoro on his end step; I'd draw 1; he'd discard 1.  Eventually he found an Orchard so I played Grand Abolisher off Cavern on my turn w. Time Vault in hand, played Mana Crypt, and hardcast Memory Jar.  I activated it immediately.  During the Jar, I played Voltaic Key and bounced his Oath (making him discard it at EoT).  On his turn I believe he started looking for another Oath, drew with Library, played Time Vault without Key and passed.  I untapped and played Time Vault w. Abolisher in play and untapped it with the Key for the win.  Since Mana Crypt was involved I soon Demonic Tutored for Tinker to relieve that potential liability.

Game 2, He played a Key and a lot of mana on his first turn.  I played some acceleration and Key also and passed.  He played Academy; I played Academy.  On his third turn, he hardcast Rune-Scarred Demon with only 1 mana left to spare and tutored up a card I (correctly as it later turns out) presumed to be Time Vault.  On my turn, with the help of Academy, I played Notion Thief and Timetwister, drawing 14 cards and sending his Time Vault back to library.  From the 14 cards, I played some acceleration, Ancestral Recalled then Brainstormed, found Time Walk and Time Vault, untapped and won.

Round 2 - Phil on Martello Shops, 2-0
  
He won the die roll and led with Strip Mine, Mox Jet, pass.  I didn't know what he was playing for certain because whenever I'd see him at events, he'd be on Noble Fish and talked about wanting to build a Vintage port of BUG Landstill, which he eventually built and played at Champs.  Strip Mine, Jet fit that description so I fetched up a Tropical Island, keeping Cavern of Souls safely in hand, and played a Hierarch.  On his turn, he played Tolarian Academy and Mana Crypt which then had me thinking he was on some sort of Shops.  I played Dark Confidant.  He Metamorphed it.  I attacked him with my exalted Confidant, he lost a Mana Crypt roll, flipped a Forgemaster and then played Forgemaster along w. Chalice @ 2.  Tangle Wire soon followed and the seemingly innocent Hierarch's noble execution of its duties allowed me to stay in the game manawise enough to Repeal his Chalice and Demonic for Hurkyl's.  He was able to generate well over 14 mana and was Forging and hardcasting terrible robots and played Chalice @ 3 presuming perhaps that I had tutored for Yawg's Will or Tinker.  His board state was extremely ferocious, Myr Battlesphere, Kuldotha Forgemaster, Tangle Wire, Chalice @ 3, and Steel Hellkite when I EoT Hurkylled them all back to hell where they belong.  I hit him again w. my exalted Dark Confidant, Time Walked, and then attacked for lethal.            

Game 2, I think he had a turn 1 Forgemaster.  I led with Library of Alexandria, drew a card and played Mox Emerald, Noble Hierarch. I don't remember what he played after that but on my next turn, I Ancestralled, played Dark Confidant, and he Forged into Myr Battlesphere on my end step, and I Disenchanted it.  I had a Snapper in hand and debated killing the Forgemaster then, taking the 12 and then nuking the Battlesphere to avoid further Forge shenanigans but the idea of taking 12 and then having those Myr tokens still lurking around as a clock after the Snap Disenchant was too dangerous so I killed the Battlesphere.  I used Library during his turn.  He played a Tangle Wire.  On my upkeep, I played the Snapper going to 7 cards and able to use Library again.  He responded by Forging a Golem so that it's sphere effect would keep me off Disenchant.  I targeted Ancestral Recall and played it on upkeep, using the Library for mana.  He tapped his Myrs to Wire.  Next turn I got a Bob into play and he Forged into Hellkite.  Bob and the Snapcaster double blocked the Golem but Hellkite gobbled up 4 separate 0-CC artifacts.  I flashed in a Notion Thief during Tangle time.  He did some more serious Forging and played another Tangle Wire and a Trinisphere.  Things were looking grim on the outside but the Library found Hurkyl's and on his end step I Hurkylled him devastatingly.  He was gracious enough to concede then since we were at or close to time.  It was the right call since the post-untap plan was vicious; Demonic Tutor for Timetwister w. his whole board back in hand and Notion Thief in play.      

Round 3 - Justin Kohler on Bomberman, 2-0

Game 1, I have vague recollections of my Brainstorm resolving and then a Snapper resolving, but not the Demonic Tutor I played or the one that was flashed back, one being Snared the other being Forced.  I think I had Misstep to protect the first Brainstorm. "That's annoying," opponent stated.  He Cliqued me and said it was outrageous that he had to pick between Demonic Tutor, Jace, Tinker, and a Snapcaster Mage.  He Cliqued Tinker and then went aggro while I had Mana Crypt in play.  Clique cycled into Tendrils. I drew and played a Notion Thief.  I passed and he attacked.  I played Jace and bounced his Clique.  When the Clique tried to attack again, I Chain of Vapored my Crypt then sacrificed a land to bounce his Clique and he sacrificed a land to bounce Jace, then replayed the Clique and bottomed Jace.  He played a Jace of his own and bounced my Notion Thief.  I replayed the Thief and killed his Jace with my Snapcaster.  He confessed afterwards he thought he had this game in the bag the whole time.  But Humans are not so easily dispatched.  I was at 1 life with a Crypt in play and him on Vendilion.  I had Academy on my side for lots of mana.  I played Snapcaster Mage targeting Chain of Vapor and bounced my Mana Crypt, sacrificed a land, targeted Snapcaster Mage, sacrificed another land and bounced his Vendilion Clique for another certain turn, then replayed the Snapcaster Mage, targeted Brainstorm, played it, Brainstormed into Trinket Mage, replayed the Mana Crypt, played Trinket Mage, fetched Black Lotus, and cast Tendrils of Agony on him for a lot and for the win.  

Game 2, he opened Land, Mox, Mox, pass, I played Library of Alexandria, Mox, pass.  On the next turn he played Ancestral and Forced my Misstep.  On my turn I played Demonic Tutor (for Time Vault).  I was thrilled to have Karakas in hand to protect me from those Vendilion gossip hounds, which it turns out he did indeed have.  I don't care if he wants to pay UU1 every turn to cycle my hand from one broken card to the next; I'll bounce them all day and all night to ward off their rude attacks.  He was on the Plowshares plan and tapped out except for Mox Pearl to play Jace and Top.  I untapped, played another Mox, Time Vault, Tolarian Academy for UUU, Tinker.  He spun the top and couldn't find a second FoW.  Untap Vault with remaining land and win.  For the record, against control decks, although it's one mana less to Tutor the Voltaic Key, I prefer the Tutor up Vault plan and Tinker for Key because it's immune from Mental Misstep.  

Round 4 - Shawn Griffiths on Deathrite Shaman Grixis.  ID

Round 5 - A different Phil on Magus of the Moon/Null Rod aka "I hate life and I hate Vintage".dec.  ID

Top 8

Dominic DiFebo on Grixis Storm.  Win, 2-0

This was a great match and we had a small crowd gathered for the second game.  I remembered him from NYSE cause he was playing BUG Fish and surprised me by wiping the board of Thalia & Wolf tokens with a Pernicious Deed which was his own unique addition to the list that caught me off guard giving him the win.  Game 1, he led with a Preordain that I debated Misstepping but declined.  I played Bob.  We went back and forth for a few turns with relevant spells being played on both sides and then I played Grand Abolisher off a Cavern of Souls into Vault Key for the win.  Since I had a Bob in play, we played it out.  Bob flipped Tendrils of Agony.  I attacked him with Bob and Abolisher and then fetched up Lotus w. Trinket Mage for a mini-Tendrils taking him to 2, and putting my life total somewhere in the teens, and then on the next turn, Bob flipped over a harmless Flooded Strand.  

Game 2, he played a Land and a Ruby I believe and I played Library of Alexandria, Emerald, Noble Hierarch.  He Mysticalled for Ancestral and played it, and it resolved.  I played Cavern of Souls, Trinket Mage, fetch Tormod's Crypt, and played it.  It resolved and I ended the turn with 6 cards in hand.  I attacked him next turn w. the exalted Trinket Mage and played Jace, which he countered with a Red Blast.  He Thoughtseized me which got me off Library for one turn.  From a hand of Snapcaster, Abolisher, Voltaic Key, Land, Land, Mox, he ousted the Key.  On my next turn, he played Fact or Fiction on end step into Swamp, Island, Lotus Petal, Flusterstorm, Imperial Seal.  He had a healthy amount of both U and B lands in play.  I split them Island, Petal, Fluster and Seal, Swamp.  He took the Seal pile and played Seal on main phase.  Under ordinary circumstances he would have Sealed for Will but with the Crypt in play, another option needed to be found.  I suspected Tinker for Myrball.  I attacked him again with the exalted Trinket Mage and played Dark Confidant.  To the delight of the crowd gathered, on his turn he hardcast Thrashing Wumpus and later committed homicide against three innocent Humans.  Since he had to tap out for a turn, I was able to sneak in another attack before the massacre thanks to the Exalted mechanic.  Because of all the Thoughtseizing, 2 life tutoring, and Exalted Trinket beats, the Wumpus use brought him down to a precariously low life of 4.  I played Demonic Tutor for Tendrils of Agony and passed. He attacked with the Wumpus and passed back.  I played Grand Abolisher off a Cavern and then Tendrils of Agony for 4.  

Tibur (not sure if spelled correctly) on Delver, Loss 0-2

Game 1, I kept a one lander without Cavern of Souls and was duly punished.  It had Bob, Demonic Tutor, Notion Thief, Misstep, Timetwister, Yawgmoth's Will, and could have gotten there had the second land come a bit sooner.  My creatures got bolted and all relevant spells countered.

Before game 2, I had this idea that maybe I should side out the Memory Jar.  We exchanged decklists before the match and I figured this 4x Bolt + Fire/Ice deck is very hostile to Notion Thieves and so there's a good chance Jar will give us both a temporary 7 (rather than 14 for me, 0 for you as intended) and it's probably not a great idea to fill someone's hand with Spell Pierces, Snapcasters, and Bolts.  So I sided it out.  

Game 2, I mulled to 6 and had Key, Snapcaster, Misstep, Trinket, and lands.  He Ancestral Recalled and I Misstepped it.  Next he played a Delver of Secrets and I played Snapper, which he Forced.  He said afterwards that the Recall was just bait and the spell he really wanted to resolve was Delver of Secrets.  I played Trinket Mage, got Sensei's Top.  When I used the Key on Top, he Grudged it which was annoying.  I Brainstormed into dual land, dual land, Tinker and knew fate was sealed.  I could have Tinkered the Key into the Jar had it been in the post-sb list, but with Sensei's gone and with Grudge in the yard for Time Vault, there was nothing to search up.  

The prize support was $100 credit which I used along with some other things for a NM Underground Sea.  This store has a pretty exhaustive inventory of foils, rarities, power, and dual lands in great condition so placing high is definitely worth it.  Thanks to Dan and the rest of Mythic Games for hosting a great event and I look forward to returning again.  

That's all.  -B
« Last Edit: April 06, 2014, 03:36:59 pm by brianpk80 » Logged

"It seems like a normal Monk deck with all the normal Monk cards.  And then the clouds divide...  something is revealed in the skies."
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« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2013, 07:13:32 pm »

... And this proves how much of a Bastard Notion Thief is, lol
Congrats on the nice finish Brian!
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« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2013, 09:44:46 pm »

Fantastic report and congratulations.
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« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2013, 11:14:14 pm »

   Congratulations on the finish, this just goes to show how much room for innovation there still is in the vintage cardpool.

   Out of curiosity though, what are your thoughts on the lack of Vampiric Tutor? Did you ever find yourself needing another tutor to find a missing combo piece or answer? Are Bob and draw 7's just good enough by acting as "probability tutors"? I'm interested by the concept of there just being enough card draw in a combo deck that Vamp isn't worth the space.
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« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2013, 03:58:10 am »

Congrats on your great result Brian! I'm not sure this deck belongs to "Null Rod Based Aggro" thread anymore (at least playing key+vault :p). In fact it looks closer to Bombermanless Humans (lol)

Great greatures, I'm a bit concerned about green mana for hierarch or WW for abolisher, even when I recognize they are great in the deck. Easy win with key+vault and devastating synergy between notion+draw 7's. Overall looks very smooth, although I just realized it does not play FOWs!!

Big innovation, nice idea Smile
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brianpk80
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« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2013, 07:25:38 am »

Thank you for the comments, Dan, Matt, xouman, and Jarof Fortune.

Congrats on your great result Brian! I'm not sure this deck belongs to "Null Rod Based Aggro" thread anymore (at least playing key+vault :p). In fact it looks closer to Bombermanless Humans (lol)

The forum name has always been a bit oblique since Stony Silence was printed and replaced Null Rod in many lists and then for a while both cards were missing from the scene.  The specific thread here though is the home for Cavern Humans and this is definitely a Cavern Human deck with the 4 Bob 4 Cavern foundation and a lot of shared maindeck + sideboard Human technology, like the War Priest.  I don't want to be excommunicated for playing Time Vault!!   Very Happy

Quote
Great greatures, I'm a bit concerned about green mana for hierarch or WW for abolisher, even when I recognize they are great in the deck.

I haven't had any problems with it, but I would say that if a novice pilot picked up the deck without knowing what to fetch and when, fetching errors would be punished.  The Caverns 5C mana production for creatures hedges against color screw a lot.  There are times when any type of mana screw can occur but it's no more often than what I experience playing other 2 or 3 color decks.  The 2 City of Brass help a lot without going overboard into pinging myself to death.  Tropical Island is fetched only when necessary to play a Hierarch (which isn't too often due to Caverns) or when I know that whatever I fetch will be Wastelanded, so I fetch the most expendable target, keeping the Undergrounds safe in library or hand for future use.  Tundra is only fetched g1 when needed to play Abolisher, and then it is fetched more often post sideboard where I bring in white removal. 

   Congratulations on the finish, this just goes to show how much room for innovation there still is in the vintage cardpool.

   Out of curiosity though, what are your thoughts on the lack of Vampiric Tutor? Did you ever find yourself needing another tutor to find a missing combo piece or answer? Are Bob and draw 7's just good enough by acting as "probability tutors"? I'm interested by the concept of there just being enough card draw in a combo deck that Vamp isn't worth the space.

Of the three additional tutors tested, if I had to add them back in order of preference, #1 would be Merchant Scroll, #2 would be Mystical Tutor, and #3 would be Vamp.  Given that a hefty 23 cards in the deck are capable of generating card draw (24 if we count Key->Top), the density of business spells makes a context where accumulation is inevitably going to get there somehow.  If I have Memory Jar/Tinker for instance, Notion Thief isn't required to reap benefits even though if he's present, the result is devastating; playing Abolisher and Jar or Time Walk and Jar or even Jar on its own should yield a very advantageous position.  Regarding Vampiric, I shy away from the card disadvantage tutors even in blue lists because of how far behind they can put you in control matches.  Demonic Tutor and Trinket Mage have been sufficient.

I would love to run Wheel of Fortune but I found versions of this deck without green for Noble Hierarch subtly but surely lacked the expansiveness of mana generation I'm always looking for in the early game.  Deathrite Shaman, Lotus Petal, and Mana Vault were all suboptimal for different reasons.  Hope that answers the questions.  -B

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« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2013, 06:06:43 pm »

Thanks for your answers Bryan. As usually, all make sense. It's probably just my inexperience with this deck whick makes me afraid of the manabase, or makes me more cautious.

It seems overall a difficult deck to play. I wouldn't know how to play it aggro, how to go combo, when take a cautious approach... nice synergies (I like a lot mikokoro+notion, for example), but hard to master.
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« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2013, 09:15:36 pm »

Nice result!

I took the time to transform my 5C Humans deck into a Legacy legal variant. It was my first Legacy event and I managed to top 8 with it.

R1: Played against ANT. Kept a slow hand g1 and got stormed to death on turn 2. However in game 2 and game 3 I managed to get in Thalia and Teeg with also others cards. Took the match.
R2: First sneak attack (fully red version) I had to face. I lost game 1 due to a fast sneak Emrakul followed by another one. In game 2 and game 3 I saw my Karakas, Snipers, Vials@3 for Fiend Hunter and so on. I kept control and finished with Mayor beat downs.
R3: Another sneak attack but this time with Show and Tells. Had again my solution cards for this match up and won the match.
R4: I am sitting on table 1 and facing Elves. I lost game 1 to a lot of elves and Behemoth. Not much I could do. Game 2 I saw STP, Hunter, Cage and Jitte with Thalia. I also had a Sniper I believe and I managed to win somehow. Game 3 was long and tiresome but I eventually lost to another hardcasted Behemoth. I managed to stop Natural Order and GSZ but didn't see a single Deluge entire match.
R5: Bant Maverick with Nemesis and Stoneforge. I 2-0 his deck with Jitte in game 1 and with a Lavinia lock in game 2. Lavinia with Karakas stops TNN fyi.
R6: I agree on a draw to secure my top 8.

I lose in Quarter finals to Esper Stoneblade. I made my deck with the cards at my disposal. My goal was to have fun and just use whatever I had in my card album. I did borrow a 3th Karakas and the 3 Petals in SB. But yea, I managed to top 8 with 5c Humans in a Legacy event.

Here is the decklist
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« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2013, 10:22:58 pm »

It was nice playing against a familiar face over cockatrice Guli. I did like the humans list. Its quite different to the version I played last year in legacy. Those stun snipers were extremely annoying in our games.
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« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2013, 02:37:56 pm »

In the tournament, people were also saying things about Stun Sniper. 'Tech', 'Crazy', 'you drafted that card?', 'Seems interesting', 'in legacy?' ...

I was happy to have the option of tapping Emrakul while I could bounce Griselbrand with Karakas after attackers were declared Smile

Vials are extremely strong with Mayor, you can vial them in and transform it on their upkeep. Death and Taxes uses a lot of Vial tricks too with Flickerwisp and Stoneforge. I think Humans can also use Vials in very profitable ways. I do think that right now Vial is more of a Legacy card, and moxes are what you prefer in Vintage. At least it seems thay way. But on the other hand, games tend to end quicker in Legacy, so maybe the Vial should be tested again in a more tempo/counter oriented Human deck.
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« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2013, 04:15:13 pm »

I like the Legacy list.  I'm curious, though, what the Petals in the board are for.
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« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2013, 04:55:21 pm »

To enable a turn 1 Thalia or Canonist/Teeg more often. And to get out of Blood Moon locks if you didn't draw Vial.

I boarded them in against sneak attack decks and combo decks. Match ups where you want to trade a card for more speed.


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« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2013, 05:24:51 pm »

Congratulations Guli on the successful finish.  This is a relevant moment for Vintage because it's one of the first times in recent years (if not the first time) that a Legacy deck was created as a port of an existing Vintage deck.  This phenomenon tends to happen exclusively the other way around, with ambitious Vintage players porting decks from Legacy (like Show and Tell, Stoneblade).
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« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2013, 05:34:38 am »

Thanks,

The event I played in was a trial event. The finals are on 22 December and I intend to go again. Since I am very new to the format, I had the chance to learn a lot. Even by playing 1 event I made a lot of changes already.

I really see it as my vintage deck honestly. Legacy can be very fast, making hatebears even more effective than in Vintage. It is nice to see a Thalia, Gaddock or Canonist be that much effective. Since I saw a lot of Sneak Show decks, I will not change my choices regarding Karakas, Snipers, Fiend Hunter and the Gaddock. I really did well against that archetype. I did however saw a lot of stoneforge decks. My initial solution was to use my own Stoneforge but now I think it would be much better to simply destroy the equipment they are fetching up. And I believe this artifact removal should be main deck. A second serious change would be to replace Toxic Deluges with Orzhov Pontiff. Pontiff takes out TNN and helps against Elves to cripple them badly.

If you compare the Human deck with the death and taxes deck interesting things come to mind. There is no flickerwisp or stoneforge, but there is Mayor, Noble and removal for equipment. Recruit is more like our Stoneforge and we can afford this because we ramp up with Noble's. Vial in a Mayor to get a 3/3 right away that generates 3/3 tokens is strong, especially with an active MOR. So Humans also has good 2cc cards and 3cc cards to Vial in. Recruiter is key here alongside Pontiff to wreck the meta.

So the next list I will use will be an improvement and I hope to do better next time.


Vintage wise I am working on a competitive Artificer/Humans list. The concept features Sydri, a card that was labeled as 'unplayable' and 'not competitive enough for vintage' by some people. I do not agree with this assessment.

4 Cavern of Souls
1 Strip Mine
1 Mishra's Factory
4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
2 Underground Sea
2 Karakas
3 Tundra
1 Scrubland
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus
4 AEther Vial

1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Sydri, Galvanic Genius
3 Goblin Welder
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Notion Thief
3 Dark Confidant
2 Baleful Strix

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Demonic Tutor

2 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Tangle Wire
3 Swords to Plowshares

SB: 1 True Believer
SB: 2 Rest in Peace
SB: 3 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Sword of Feast and Famine
SB: 1 War Priest of Thune
SB: 1 Notion Thief
SB: 4 Disenchant
SB: 1 Swords to Plowshares
SB: 1 Thorn of Amethyst
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« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2013, 09:02:08 am »

@brian: have you considered howling mine or font of mythos  or temple bell with notion thief? maybe as a 1 of since you run tinker? Not as broken as jar obv but bell is on par with mikoko and font turns into a huge advantage quickly.
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« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2013, 11:21:08 am »

@brian: have you considered howling mine or font of mythos  or temple bell with notion thief? maybe as a 1 of since you run tinker? Not as broken as jar obv but bell is on par with mikoko and font turns into a huge advantage quickly.

I haven't considered them.  I wouldn't want to be put in a position where Notion Thief is required to perform, so I would only run cards that are also effective in his absence, those being Jar, Twister, and Mikokoro. 
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« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2013, 05:53:47 am »

grats on ur 1st place finish. how is the mud matchup? turn 1 lodestone seems ridic rough no? have u considered a higher counter threat with fow's and maybe arcane denial? arcane could work very well as a small number w thief. u run plenty of blue for fow i think. just some thoughts/questions.
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« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2013, 01:15:53 pm »

grats on ur 1st place finish. how is the mud matchup? turn 1 lodestone seems ridic rough no? have u considered a higher counter threat with fow's and maybe arcane denial? arcane could work very well as a small number w thief. u run plenty of blue for fow i think. just some thoughts/questions.

Thanks.  MUD match-up is acceptable.  In events, deck is 6-0 in games against MUD on the draw each time.  Turn 1 Lodestone itself is not pleasant but it's manageable unless it's coupled with Chalice or additional Sphere + Wasteland or immediately Metamorphed.  Mull to 6 or 5 to rush out a turn 1 Golem without the correct additional pressure isn't generally going to get there (though in some cases I suppose it could, Magic being random and all); when that happens, I absorb 5-15 damage and then either block w. a flashed in Notion Thief, Vault Key them, or play/tutor up Hurkyl's and either win or stabilize or replay it with a Snapcaster and then win/stabilize.  I don't disrespect that match up though so I board 6-7 cards against them.  +2 Disenchant, +1 Steel Sab, +1 Hurkyl's, +1 Swords to Plowshares, +1 Ophiomancer, and usually +1 Karakas.  -2 Grand Abs, -2 Notion Thief, -2 Mental Misstep, -1 Gitaxian Probe.  V. affinity I usually side out Jace and something else instead of Notion Thief & Misstep since Jace is dead on arrival there and the Misstep/Thief can hit the Clamp.  Having a very high land count helps a lot in these match-ups and against Landstill.  

Force of Will is not great here.  The card has been weakened by Cavern of Souls & Abrupt Decay and I find most decks that want to win through moderate counter walls will do it anyway, thanks to Duress effects, Cabal Therapy, Sphere effects, and Flusterstorm.  Playing defense at the expense of card advantage isn't where this deck wants to be because that detracts from its strengths, the expansive board presence and high density of business spells.  Cavern/Grand Abolisher is better than Force/Misdirection at protecting one's own bombs (it's the uncounterable Defense Grid from hell and alone is worth working the mana base to support Cavern WW), Notion Thief is a conditional but broadly applicable counterspell in his own way, and to hedge against the most threatening & common kills, I eschewed Swords to Plowshares/Abrupt Decay and used the bounce spells that hit Tinker robots, Shop robots, delay Vault/Key, and also function as Storm enablers.  I accept that we all lose to nut draws and realize the reality of Vintage doesn't match the stereotype of constant turn 1 kills, etc.  For those reasons, slowing things down with FoW isn't where I want to be.  Mental Misstep and Flusterstorm on the other hand are better fits and lend themselves to easy reuse with Snapcaster (and Cavern->Snapcaster). Hope that answers the questions.  -B      
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« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2013, 03:45:10 pm »

Yes tyvm. I was just looking at testing it in a full esper shell with arcane denial and 4 thief, where fow/misd wouldnt be huge card loss due to thief and arcane.
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« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2013, 10:51:59 am »

Yes tyvm. I was just looking at testing it in a full esper shell with arcane denial and 4 thief, where fow/misd wouldnt be huge card loss due to thief and arcane.


Feel free to give it a whirl.  The end result will be a completely different deck though and probably should not run Tendrils of Agony. 
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« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2013, 04:42:08 pm »

Report from Saturday.  I took the Humanstorm list from Page 15 of this thread to The Player's Guild in Bloomsburg.  It was the same 75.  Ended up taking first place.  

Day was off to a solemn start in the Swiss as I lost to Josh Butker's Doomsday 1-2.  I had a total of 5 or so turns the entire match.  Game 1 he opened on the play with Demonic Tutor.  I played Bob and passed with {U} open.  He comboed out Turn 2 and countered my Recall on him while he was mid-combo.  Game 2, I played Bob again on my turn.  He Thoughtseized me seeing two Thieves and Timetwister and ousted the Twister figuring he would kill me before I got to 4 mana.  Bob flipped a Mox and I drew a land.  I played a Notion Thief on his turn and he wasn't able to build a good Doomsday pile so we went to Game 3.  Game 3 he played an Island and a cantrip.  I played Library of Alexandria, drew a card, card drawn was Ancestral Recall, played Lotus, pass.  He threw down his own Lotus, Ancestralled himself and played Doomsday and again countered my Ancestral on him while he was comboing out.  I understand there's a dispute among Doomsday players on whether to run Dark Ritual and aim for speed or whether to play more counterspells and my experience with the match made a strong case for the former.  Thoughtseize, Misstep, Force, and Flusterstorm seemed more than adequate to support the fast intentions.  I had a Bye for next round.  

Next match was against Ryan Glackin on Affinity.  I didn't know if he was on Dredge, Affinity, BUG Fish, or something else this time.  He mulliganed aggressively which had me thinking Dredge but it turned out to be Affinity as he led with a blind Revoker.  Two opponents of mine that day opened with blind Revokers, one on Sapphire and one on Lotus, so I'm not sure which one it was here (Lotus I believe, but not 100% sure).  g1 was uneventful and I don't remember which kill I used.  I remember g2, he had three Arcbound Ravagers and I had Bob.  Hurkyl's showed up but when I looked at my hand, I realized I didn't have to target him cause I had lethal storm with an eot Hurkyl's on me, untap, replay the Moxen, Snapcaster Mage -> Hurkyl's on me again, replay it all and Tendrils.    

Then I played Kohler who wanted revenge for last week.  He was happy I didn't have Cavern, he Misstepped my first Hierarch, then Force of Willed my second Hierarch.  I give him credit for understanding how dangerous those guys are.  They're nowhere close to innocent in this list, blood all over their hands.  He was out of counters when I played my Sol Ring and then he used his Top to set up a very control heavy looking board with Island, Black Lotus, and Mox Jet untapped and ready for action.  I Repealed his Lotus which annoyed him and then played Grand Abolisher and Misstepped his Spell Snare.  Next turn, I played Pearl and hardcast Memory Jar.  The things you can get away with having Abolisher in play versus blue mages are blasphemous.  "I see you have several cards in hand and a Top in play and UUUUU open, so I'm gonna hardcast a Memory Jar and it resolves."  The turn after that with him still silenced by the Abolisher, I activated the Jar and drew into Sensei's, Key, another Mox, Hurkyl's Recall, Demonic Tutor, Land and Tendrils of Agony so I played the artifacts, Hurkylled myself, drew from Sensei, replayed them, tutored up Lotus and played Tendrils of Agony for lethal.  

Game two I "Kohlered" him.  For those not in the area, Justin is famous for having first turn Jaces all the time in every event.  He played Land, a Mox, Top pass.  I played Tormod's Crypt, Cavern naming Human, Lotus, Jace.  Next turn I played Bob from Cavern and I played Hierarch off an Emerald giving him an opportunity to interact, which he did by Misstepping.  He was having trouble finding land but he managed to pop an Explosives @ 2.  However, Bob and Jace are quite broken together so by that time I already had a back-up Bob, my own Top, access to Timetwister and Tinker and Notion Thief in hand.  He cracked his Lotus, played Jace, and Brainstormed with Jace but it got Notion Thieved off the Cavern causing him to concede.  

I IDed with Dan Bernquist for the last round.

Top 8

Dan Bernquist on Shops, Win 2-0

Game 1, he led with blind Revoker on Mox Sapphire or Black Lotus (I think he was Sapphire, and Ryan was Lotus).  I played a land, Mox, Mana Crypt and Sensei's Divining Top.  He played a Tangle Wire and soon a Sphere of Resistance.  I flashed in a Notion Thief the following turn at Tangle time so that I'd have enough permanents in play for the next Tangling to pay 5 mana for Jace.  After playing Jace, I fatesealed him seeing Trinisphere and let it stay on top.  The Mana Crypt was unkind to me this game.  I had Repeal in hand at 4 life expecting to lose the flip and spend the turn Repealing it but I finally won the flip allowing me to ignore it for one more turn and use the Sphere drained resources to play a Noble Hierarch.  He got a Golem eventually but I flashed in another Notion Thief for a total of 2 holding down the fort protecting Jace.  He took a lot of damage from his Tomb and I attacked him twice with an Exalted Thief.  He Wasted my Academy and I used it to play Snapcaster targeting Repeal.  9 mana was required in total due to the Sphere and Golem.  I waited until EoT to play the Repeal and bounced the Revoker then Jace bounced the Golem on my turn and attacked with everybody for lethal.  

Game 2, I kept a risky hand that was amazing against most Shop openings except Chalice 0.  He led with Ancient Tomb, Thorn of Amethyst.  He attempted a Chalice 0 after the Thorn resolved but it couldn't be played because it required 1 more mana due to the Thorn.  On my turn I played City of Brass, Mox Emerald, Mox Jet, Mox Sapphire, Black Lotus, Ophiomancer.  He played Workshop Smokestack next which really highlighted the utility of "the snake guy."  I played two Dark Confidants on my turn.  He ramped Smokestack to 1 and Metamorphed my Ophiomancer.  I sacrificed my Snake token to the Smokestack.  Bobs revealed a land and Tinker.  He sacrificed his Snake token on upkeep, my Snake token came back, and then he played Crucible of Worlds.  EoT I Hurkylled him and Tinkered up Memory Jar and went through some maneuvers that involved extra turns and winning.  

Bill Sees on BUG Jace Vault, Win 2-1

Game 1 he was on the play, mulled to 6 and played Bob.  I kept a hand with a lot of land and Library of Alexandria.  I'll pretty much keep any hand regardless of how sketchy the other 6 are if it includes Library on the draw.  Without LoA, the hand was an auto-mull.  He Time Walked, I Time Walked.  We both sculpted our hands to kill each other on our next turns and he had the edge being on the play, Vamped for Will with a sick loaded graveyard, played Tinker -> BSC, Time Walk.  Scoop.  

Game 2, I had a busted opening hand: Sapphire, Pearl, Cavern of Souls, Ancestral Recall, Time Walk, and 2 Snapcaster Mages.  Led with Sapphire, Ancestral which resolved.  When I played the Cavern I almost named "Snapcaster" but caught myself and named Human.  It was enough that he knew Snappers were coming or I was a crazy bluffer.  I played the Pearl then and passed.  He played Jace.  I Ambush Vipered a Snapper into play and then Time Walked, killing Jace.  Played another Snapcaster and flashed back either Walk or Ancestral and played Bob.  He killed the Bob on his turn.  I played Jace and another Bob and ended up getting far ahead.

Game 3, my only mana source in opening was Black Lotus, but it had Dark Confidant, Ancestral Recall, and Flusterstorm.  I played Ancestral and found a Cavern to play Bob.  Bob was Abrupt Decayed.  I found another land and Time Walked.  I played a Voltaic Key.  Thing slowed down for a little bit after that until at 6 cards in hand I topdecked Library of Alexandria.  I passed the turn and he passed back.  He Decayed the Key.  After a few turns with Library active, I played Gitaxian Probe and saw his hand was land, Abrupt Decay, and Blightsteel Colossus so I played Grand Abolisher, resolved a Yawgmoth's Will, replayed the Key and Tinkered something into the Vault.  

Finals v. Josh Butker Ritual Doomsday, Win 2-0

Game 1, I kept a hand that would have been a mulligan against most decks.  It had Cavern of Souls, Black Lotus, Notion Thief, Mox Pearl, and 3 land.  I kept it because that was what I needed to interact here.  Lotus resolved and I Notion Thiefed his Ancestral, drawing into Grand Abolisher, Sol Ring, Tinker.  I played Abolisher and Tinkered for Jar.  He built a Doomsday pile that involved Black Lotus, Time Walk, and Yawg's Will (not Tendrils which was exiled) but said "it doesn't matter now" and we went to game 2.

Game 2, his hand was permission heavy and contained Thoughtseize/Duress effects.  I played Bob.  The early game had a Mental Misstep on a Gitaxian Probe.  I think he Misstepped my Misstep of his Probe.  We both run it as a singleton.  He knew I had Plowshares and Memory Jar in hand.  He played another discard spell the next turn and I used Brainstorm to hide two cards, the Jar and Ancestral Recall; he Seized away Swords to Plowshares.  Bob revealed the Ancestral.  I played Memory Jar and let it sit there so that he couldn't combo out w. Lab Man.  Bob revealed Tendrils of Agony and I was getting hit with my Mana Crypt so my life total was at 9.  He played Lotus Petal, Tendrils of Agony for 4 and I Flusterstormed it.  On my turn, I attacked him with Bob bringing him to 4 life and then played Grand Abolisher off Cavern of Souls and Tendrils of Agony for 4.  For a second, he moved to Flusterstorm the Tendrils but then remembered what the Abolisher does.  

It was another good day at The Player's Guild and I should be there again next month.  That's all,  -B    
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« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2013, 07:48:00 pm »

Brian, congrats on the win! Thank you for the excellent report.
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« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2013, 10:02:50 pm »

Brian, congrats on the win! Thank you for the excellent report.

Thanks Rich!
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« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2013, 11:04:07 am »

It's wonderful how cavern and abolisher can work setting those tendrils or vault wins. Abolisher and notion are what intrigue me more about this deck, tremendous creatures against control.

Congratulations on your winning, luckily Dan Bernquist played thorn before Cotv, or it would have been a little hard on qf :p
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« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2013, 08:50:09 pm »

So here's just a quick question, why doesn't the non-combo version run Resto Angel?

It does a pretty good job of protecting your men from removal, it's a nice pseudo-haste guy that is immune to most removal, has a large body, and evasion which is nice with Exalted. It also kills Jace really well.

It has some really nice synergy with Imperial Recruiter, which seems like a really strong card in the deck, to the point that I can see playing more than one main deck. I think a 2 and 2 split would work well. Being able to reuse a Pontiff is nice too. You can also test something like Eternal Witness and more.

It also has some cute tricks with Huntmaster (Making tokens or gaining life. Plus you can use it to unflip him eot, and then flip him next turn.), Ingot Chewer (Blink with evoke to get more dudes out and kill more things. Also, Cavern on Angel can let you sneak a Chewer out as most people won't counter the evoked Chewer.), and even Mayor as it lets you just flip him to sneak more damage in by turning him back into an Anthem when they're not expecting it.

Maybe I'm underestimating the power of Mistcutter or Exava, but while I know both of those are strong cards, it feels like the Angel is just as good. 
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« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2013, 11:32:18 pm »

Have you missed mayor at all? Even as a 1 of in your 75 or is ophinimancer your token maker of choice? Even Young Pyromancer could be tested with the high spell count I would think?

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« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2013, 01:15:47 am »

Have u missed mayor at all? Even as a 1 of in ur 75 or is ophinimancer ur token maker of choice? Even young pyromancer could be tested w the high spell count I would think?


I assume the snake token maker is of choice due to the Deathtouch, making it pretty strong vs creatures and Workshops.
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« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2013, 04:29:43 am »

Have u missed mayor at all? Even as a 1 of in ur 75 or is ophinimancer ur token maker of choice? Even young pyromancer could be tested w the high spell count I would think?

Mayor is not ment to be in combo humans. Howlpack Alpha likes slow and silent environments. This means that Thalia is a no brainer if you want to ride games out on Mayor. I like how you bring up Pyromancer, it sounds nice as an beatdown plan if his combo plan somehow didn't get there. Or just generate a lot of wall tokens. That said, the snake guy is more on color and does its job regardless of what you play next.

I also had this idea of just running several Ethersworn Canonist main deck to complement Thalia and Mayor. On top I thought Revokers and Mindcensors would offer more denial in the form of hatebears. To be Tinker proof, I like to have Maze of Ith and Kor Haven around. Karakas and 8 strips in addition to these toolbox lands justify Knight of the Reliquary.

I ended up with Maverick Humans with 32 creatures and a lot of ways to control the board and put pressure. I included the off color REUSABLE moxes because they are just the best you can play against Workshop and they open up a lot of options with Cavern on turn 1.

I think this would qualify as a good Mayor list. Good hate to slow things down, the full moxes with 8 strips to power up Mayor against shop, knights to solve problems after they choose their 'out'.

GWB Humans (61 cards)

4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Forest
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
3 Ghost Quarter
1 Kor Haven
1 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas

3 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Mayor of Avabruck
4 Dark Confidant
3 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Qasali Pridemage
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Aven Mindcensor

SB: 4 Snuff Out
SB: 3 Stoneforge Mystic
SB: 1 Batterskull
SB: 1 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 2 War Priest of Thune
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Rest in Peace
SB: 1 Scavenging Ooze
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog

The dredge hate is not much, but I don't think it is needed with Thalia, Mayor, Deathrite and 8 strips.

I also like this list because it goes back to the beginning of Humans, see the initial post of Stormanimagus as reference. Fun deck to pilot, enjoy.
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« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2013, 10:24:17 am »

@Brian, have you ever considered Skullclamp?  It seems to work well with the current P/T of creatures and it's fetchable with Trinket Mage while fueling the combo.
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« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2013, 01:14:03 pm »

Brian, I have to admit I usually *HATE* decks like this because they often times feel like a Jumbled mess, but I really love the unique quirks of this list.  Kudos.
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