Get Rise because triple ROE is easily the best draft format in a long long time.

Misread this card twice, thank god.  Re-reading assured me it was not a tinker-target and draw four wasn't a come-into-play.  The universe makes sense again....sort of.

So at a bare-minimum its WW, opponent skips their draw step, you draw a card. This seems quite good, probably needs to be fixed.

Turboland 2K9!

If all else fails, whenever I feel like playing something ludicrous that definitely can't be considered good, I start looking for my Dream Halls...

This was in a Type 2 game, so maybe this isn't the place for it, but this is just too good not to post.



0:02:34 [Clayparson] It is now the Precombat Main Phase
0:02:36 [Clayparson] Clayparson taps Mountain
0:02:36 [Clayparson] Clayparson taps Forest
0:02:36 [Clayparson] Clayparson taps Mountain
0:02:36 [Clayparson] Clayparson taps Swamp
0:02:36 [Clayparson] Clayparson taps Swamp
0:02:36 [Clayparson] Clayparson taps Forest
0:02:38 [Clayparson] Clayparson plays Rampaging Baloths from Hand
0:02:40 [Clayparson] Clayparson plays Verdant Catacombs from Hand
0:02:42 [I'M ALL-IN] <I'M ALL-IN> ok
0:02:45 [I'M ALL-IN] <I'M ALL-IN> you are strong
0:02:50 [Clayparson] Clayparson puts a 4/4 Beast token into play
0:02:54 [Clayparson] <Clayparson> shut up and play
0:02:55 [Clayparson] <Clayparson> End my turn
0:02:59 [I'M ALL-IN] <I'M ALL-IN> asshole
0:03:01 [I'M ALL-IN] It is now turn 14 (I'M ALL-IN)
0:03:01 [I'M ALL-IN] It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
0:03:02 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN untaps his/her permanents
0:03:02 [I'M ALL-IN] It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
0:03:02 [I'M ALL-IN] It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
0:03:03 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN draws a card
0:03:03 [I'M ALL-IN] It is now the Precombat Main Phase
0:03:05 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN plays Mountain from Hand
0:03:07 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN looks at a card
0:03:09 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN taps Jwar Isle Refuge
0:03:09 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN taps Mountain
0:03:09 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN taps Crumbling Necropolis
0:03:09 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN taps Akoum Refuge
0:03:09 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN taps Island
0:03:09 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN taps Island
0:03:09 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN taps Mountain
0:03:10 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN plays Sphinx of Lost Truths from Hand
0:03:12 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN draws a card
0:03:12 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN draws a card
0:03:12 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN draws a card
0:03:14 [I'M ALL-IN] It is now the Combat Phase, Beginning Of Combat Step
0:03:15 [I'M ALL-IN] It is now the Combat Phase, Declare Attackers Step
0:03:15 [Clayparson] I'M ALL-IN taps Sphinx of Jwar Isle
0:03:16 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN taps Sphinx of Jwar Isle
0:03:17 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN looks at a card
0:03:19 [Clayparson] Clayparson's life total is now 13 (-5)
0:03:21 [I'M ALL-IN] It is now the End Phase, Cleanup Step
0:03:22 [I'M ALL-IN] <I'M ALL-IN> End my turn
0:03:25 [Clayparson] Clayparson sacrifices Verdant Catacombs
0:03:27 [Clayparson] Clayparson's life total is now 12 (-1)
0:03:28 [Clayparson] Clayparson is looking its Library...
0:03:32 [Clayparson] Clayparson puts Swamp into play from Library
0:03:33 [Clayparson] Clayparson shuffles library
0:03:33 [Clayparson] Clayparson stops looking its Library...
0:03:35 [Clayparson] Clayparson duplicates Beast
0:03:38 [Clayparson] It is now turn 15 (Clayparson)
0:03:38 [Clayparson] It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
0:03:38 [Clayparson] Clayparson untaps his/her permanents
0:03:39 [Clayparson] It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
0:03:40 [Clayparson] Clayparson draws a card
0:03:40 [Clayparson] It is now the Precombat Main Phase
0:03:48 [Clayparson] It is now the Combat Phase, Declare Attackers Step
0:03:49 [Clayparson] Clayparson taps Rampaging Baloths
0:03:49 [Clayparson] Clayparson taps Beast
0:03:49 [Clayparson] Clayparson taps Beast
0:03:50 [I'M ALL-IN] Clayparson taps Rampaging Baloths
0:03:50 [I'M ALL-IN] Clayparson taps Beast
0:03:50 [I'M ALL-IN] Clayparson taps Beast
0:03:53 [Clayparson] <Clayparson> Ok
0:03:56 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN's life total is now 12 (-10)
0:03:58 [Clayparson] It is now the Postcombat Main Phase
0:04:08 [Clayparson] Clayparson plays Verdant Catacombs from Hand
0:04:10 [Clayparson] Clayparson duplicates Beast
0:04:10 [Clayparson] Clayparson untaps Beast
0:04:12 [I'M ALL-IN] <I'M ALL-IN> lol
0:04:14 [Clayparson] Clayparson sacrifices Verdant Catacombs
0:04:15 [I'M ALL-IN] <I'M ALL-IN> another fetch
0:04:16 [Clayparson] Clayparson's life total is now 11 (-1)
0:04:17 [I'M ALL-IN] <I'M ALL-IN> dumbass
0:04:17 [Clayparson] Clayparson is looking its Library...
0:04:22 [Clayparson] Clayparson puts Forest into play from Library
0:04:24 [Clayparson] Clayparson shuffles library
0:04:24 [Clayparson] Clayparson stops looking its Library...
0:04:25 [Clayparson] Clayparson duplicates Beast
0:04:27 [Clayparson] Clayparson taps Forest
0:04:28 [Clayparson] Clayparson taps Forest
0:04:29 [Clayparson] Clayparson taps Forest
0:04:33 [Clayparson] Clayparson plays Harrow from Hand
0:04:35 [Clayparson] Clayparson sacrifices Forest
0:04:37 [Clayparson] Clayparson is looking its Library...
0:04:39 [Clayparson] Clayparson puts Island into play from Library
0:04:41 [Clayparson] Clayparson puts Island into play from Library
0:04:42 [Clayparson] Clayparson shuffles library
0:04:42 [Clayparson] Clayparson stops looking its Library...
0:04:43 [Clayparson] Clayparson puts Harrow to Graveyard from Play
0:04:45 [Clayparson] Clayparson taps Mountain
0:04:45 [Clayparson] Clayparson taps Mountain
0:04:45 [Clayparson] Clayparson taps Swamp
0:04:45 [Clayparson] Clayparson taps Swamp
0:04:45 [Clayparson] Clayparson taps Swamp
0:04:45 [Clayparson] Clayparson taps Island
0:04:45 [Clayparson] Clayparson taps Island
0:04:46 [Clayparson] Clayparson plays Cruel Ultimatum from Hand
0:04:57 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN is now the controller of Mountain
0:04:57 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN is now the controller of Forest
0:04:57 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN is now the controller of Mountain
0:04:57 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN is now the controller of Swamp
0:04:57 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN is now the controller of Swamp
0:04:57 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN is now the controller of Forest
0:04:57 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN is now the controller of Rampaging Baloths
0:04:57 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN is now the controller of Beast
0:04:57 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN is now the controller of Swamp
0:04:57 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN is now the controller of Beast
0:04:57 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN is now the controller of Beast
0:04:57 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN is now the controller of Beast
0:04:57 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN is now the controller of Island
0:04:57 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN is now the controller of Island
0:04:57 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN is now the controller of Cruel Ultimatum
0:05:00 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN puts Mountain to Hand from Play
0:05:00 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN puts Island to Hand from Play
0:05:00 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN puts Island to Hand from Play
0:05:00 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN puts Mountain to Hand from Play
0:05:00 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN puts Forest to Hand from Play
0:05:00 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN puts Mountain to Hand from Play
0:05:00 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN puts Swamp to Hand from Play
0:05:00 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN puts Forest to Hand from Play
0:05:00 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN puts Swamp to Hand from Play
0:05:00 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN destroys  token Beast
0:05:00 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN destroys  token Beast
0:05:00 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN destroys  token Beast
0:05:00 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN puts Island to Hand from Play
0:05:00 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN puts Island to Hand from Play
0:05:03 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN puts Jwar Isle Refuge to Hand from Play
0:05:03 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN puts Crumbling Necropolis to Hand from Play
0:05:03 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN puts Akoum Refuge to Hand from Play
0:05:03 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN puts Sphinx of Jwar Isle to Hand from Play
0:05:03 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN puts Sphinx of Lost Truths to Hand from Play
0:05:03 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN puts Mountain to Hand from Play
0:05:03 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN puts Rampaging Baloths to Hand from Play
0:05:03 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN destroys  token Beast
0:05:03 [I'M ALL-IN] I'M ALL-IN puts Cruel Ultimatum to Hand from Play
0:05:07 [Clayparson] <Clayparson> um, ok?
0:05:09 [<System>] <System> Player Lost
0:06:39 [<System>] <System> Session Lost
0:06:39 [<System>] <System> Disconnected

by my count that list is 4 cards short.

What?

Ghast recurs with landfall regardless of opponents life total.  When you get an opponent to 10 it gets haste.

I understand that Negator can be played more easily on turn one, but once it is in play, I think Goyf is just better.  I don't see anything that Negator will do that Goyf can't once it makes it into play. 

It was also said that Goyf will generally be only a 1/2 on turn one.  Even if that is true (and I don't think it is), I think it is more important to be disrupting your opponent on turn one than maximizing your turn one aggressors.

If you are asking, the answer is likely yes.

If you're going the ad nauseam route, i've seen pact of negation in place of FOW to some success.  But your list seems somewhere between the more aggressive ANT and building-towards-critical-mass TPS strategies.  I would advise re-thinking the list and decide exactly what you want to do.

If you go for ANT, I would cut some of the higher costing cards (leviathan (meaning probably cutting tinker as well), bargain) and maybe some of the silver-bullet control cards, then add another Ad Nauseam and some Pacts. 
For TPS, i would cut cabal therapy.  I think force of will is strictly better in that slot.

Drrrreeeeaaaam Haaaaaaallllllsssss!!!

I've been toying with a similar deck.  There's just something about casting Cruel Ultimatum in a vintage setting that brings a huge smile to my face.  Well done.

my thoughts precisely.

Seriously, what kind of name is "Misty Rainforest"?

Is anyone else disappointed by that?

I think it should be said that this card has implications beyond just hosing storm combo.


This is unreal though.  Really excited about this.  Just the presence of this card in the format changes the way you must approach a plethora of archetypes.

I was thinking about this deck today, and I wondered if anyone has tried porting the Parfait card advantage engine (Land Tax+Scroll Rack) into another deck. I mean using white cards to create a soft lock is fun and all, but considering you have a card drawing engine that (if unmolested) outstrips any other engine around it seems like there are more broken possibilities.  Land Tax seemingly makes an opportunity for a solid 5 color mana base (consisting mainly of basic land, and last I heard Wasteland gets played a fair bit) and once you start Scrolling for tons more cards than your opponent, you can probably do some pretty insane stuff.
Any thoughts?  This will be my pet project of the week for sure.

I feel the statement that this deck is significantly easier to play than either TPS or any of various Drain decks is foolish, and comparisons to TPS or other Vault+Key decks are weak at best.  The deck plays differently from any other around at the moment, and requires a different set of skills and decisions to make in order to pilot the deck at peak efficiency.

Also, Null Rod is not a huge problem for SCV.  From my understanding, SCV was built to beat the Null Rod decks that have shown up in large numbers as of late and in my testing (whatever that is worth) it does just that.

I've been testing this deck a lot over the past week or so, and I love it.  The number of interesting (and utterly broken) options you have is staggering.  It plays with elements of the (now-extinct) welder-slaver strategies, tps, draw7.dec, tezzeret, and (most interestingly, and i don't think anyone has mentioned this yet) the Gifts decks of old.  I don't have the numbers to prove it, but i feel like i've won more games by just dropping a welder, laying down some artifact mana, playing gifts, and winning.  Is it possible to incorporate a storm kill?

I'm working on a list similar to this, Magister sphinx is definitely worth playing, seeing as welding/animating Sharuum with a Sphinx in the grave is a 1 turn clock.  Mindslaver can also randomly win with welder and Sharuum.

Restricting TFK is probably the right move, but it still irks me.  I never thought it was powerful enough to warrant restriction in Vintage.
Also, 4 crop rotation makes me just a wee-bit nervous, there are so many ways to conceivably break that card.  However, I cannot see any of the possible 4 Rotation.dec variants destroying vintage as we know it.

Thank god Mana Drain is still around, for that we can be thankful.