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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Turbo Stasis Redux [Vintage]
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on: August 20, 2013, 04:44:22 pm
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Okay, so I don't know if anyone has posted a deck like this recently or not, but here it is anyways. Stasis decks have always been a favourite of mine. Ever since the Time Elemental and Kismet, and the later Tradewind Rider/Boomerang decks, I have loved Stasis decks. As the years progressed, one specific Stasis deck performed fairly well in a tournament setting... Turbo Stasis. The concept was simple, just pay for the Stasis. No cheats, no bouncing, no crying (at least not for the Stasis player), just pay the  each turn for as long as you can (of course, there's always a contingency). The concept of this Stasis deck is very similar, while making some new card choices based on current day Vintage standards. This has only been run in casual games and online, this deck has yet to be tested in a real world tournament environment. The whole concept of how a Stasis deck wins is generally unfavourable in tournaments (ref. Shahrazad). I feel this is still a pretty competitive deck considering its target environment. So, here is the listing... Turbo Stasis Redux [Vintage]Mana Sources:4x Tropical Island 4x Forsaken City 4x Island 3x Misty Rainforest 2x Scalding Tarn 1x Black Lotus 1x Mox Emerald 1x Mox Sapphire 1x Mox Opal 4x Noble Hierarch Bounce/Control:4x Force of Will 4x Chain of Vapor 2x Nature's Claim 4x Regrowth Draw/Dig:4x Howling Mine 4x Gush 1x Fastbond 1x Ancestral Recall 1x Brainstorm 1x Ponder 1x Merchant Scroll Lock/Kill:4x Stasis 4x Black Vise Sideboard:2x Nature's Claim 2x Mindbreak Trap 4x Tormod's Crypt 3x Grafdigger's Cage Mana Sources:So, in light of Regrowth being unrestricted, I chose to go with a Gush package for drawing. This forces me to focus the mana base towards Islands. I have tried to mix non-Island, non-Land, mana in as well whilst still maintaining the focus on Islands. Forsaken City, in conjunction with Howling Mine, provides a permanent way of paying for the Stasis. A slim jewelry package was chosen due to the Island restriction. The power seems weak here actually, and I had considered stripping them in favour of Null Rod. The Noble Hierarchs simply provide an alternate source of and a little bit of damage to get you over the hump. Bounce/Control:Force of Will is an obvious choice, and Regrowth is such a strong utility. The Regrowth is for use with pretty much anything you need again like Chain of Vapor, Gush, Force of Will, Black Vise, etc. The Chain of Vapor and Nature's Claim are in the deck primarily to provide a method of 'resetting' your Stasis by destroying or bouncing it at the end of your opponent's turn. Part of the key here is the 0/1 cmc. Draw/Dig:Okay, so I know Howling Mine is like, 'You idiot, what are you doing?', but in this shell it actually becomes a Force of Will target. It does four main things all in one. It helps to add to your artifact count for Mox Opal, it permits you to find your critical cards faster, it also helps to keep your opponent's hand full while you have them tapped down and a Black Vise is on them, as well as providing a way for you to pay for the Stasis with Forsaken City. It really is a pretty critical card, however laughable it may be. The Gushbond, Recall, Scroll of BrainPonder, package is pretty standard. Lock/Kill:This particular Stasis deck revolves around Black Vise damage. There are numerous methods of killing an opponent, but in light of tournament time limits, a damage route was chosen. (...and what's more old school than Howling Mine + Black Vise) Sideboard:Uhm... well it's meta dependent. I have provided an example sideboard, but really the choices should essentially conform to the following rules: - 0 or 1 Converted Mana Cost - Blue, Green, or Artifact - Answer So you get there how you like... I have tried a version of wildspeaker stasis, wildspeaker is quite the way to go in a  version. Forsaken city is a good option when you don't have wildspeaker or can’t resolve him. Yes the city fails the wasteland test it. However, it does give you the option to go off sooner, since you won’t have to wait for wildspeaker to show up. Also, I have tried using anvil or bogarden and jace 1.0 with some success to speed up the draw out of my opponent. Though you might keep in mind the more you allow your opponent to draw the greater chance they may draw an answer to stasis. Additional choices since you are in white, could be blind obedience and imposing sovereign, these might be worth looking at. |
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Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: Worldfire
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on: July 25, 2012, 03:01:58 pm
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For multiplayer fun, cast Jhoira of the Ghitu, suspend Worldfire and Bogardan Hellkite and kill up to 5 other players.
awww ya caught me, exactly what i was doin' didnt wana let the cat out of the bag yet. i was going to try developing this into a vintage suspend deck . Greater Gargadon. It's a good card in its own right.
You can also try other suspend cards, or creatures with champion or phasing.
i already included Greater Gargadon, it just made sense as one answer to oath. i am still mulling over the use of phasing, but havent tested it. |
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5
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Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Worldfire
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on: July 24, 2012, 04:06:46 am
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i am having a trouble finding a way to win the game after a resolved worldfire. card for those who dont know what it does:  Russian roulette state that worldfire leaves is something ive been working on. Ive no problem resovling but the win condition is something ive been struggling with. Piranha Marsh and memnites is what i have been trying. the marsh is weird in a mono  deck. |
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Vintage Community Discussion / Rules Q&A / Tapped aritfact Rule
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on: May 08, 2012, 04:11:56 am
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Does tapping artifacts turn off their effects still? E.g. winter orb, armageddon clock, omen machine. i remember it use to, cause when playing the old winter orb prison deck i would tap the orb to reset my lands.
Card Name: Winter Orb
Mana Cost: 2
Types: Artifact
Card Text: Players can't untap more than one land during their untap steps.
Omen Machine
Converted Mana Cost: 6
Types: Artifact
Card Text:
Players can't draw cards.
At the beginning of each player's draw step, that player exiles the top card of his or her library. If it's a land card, the player puts it onto the battlefield. Otherwise, the player casts it without paying its mana cost if able.
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8
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: [Theoretical]Omen Machine
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on: February 15, 2012, 08:10:02 pm
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Artifacts(15)
1 Black Lotus
1 Crucible Of Worlds
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Trinisphere
1 Mox Opal
2 Omen Machine
Creatures(11)
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
4 Metalworker
1 Sundering Titan
1 Emrakul
1 Blightsteel
Planeswalkers(4)
2 Karn Liberated
2 Jace 2.0
Sorceries/Instants(10)
4 Transmute Artifact
2 Lim-dul's Vault
1 Vampric Tutor
1 Tinker
1 Impulse
1 Mana Severence
Lands(21)
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Wispers
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Wasteland
1 Tolarian Academy
Total 61 cards
Here we are a funtional decklist, it maybe not optimal. But it seems to funtion how it survives in actual games, i dont know. In the few goldfish tests i found the same thing that serracollector found, omen comes down and it just wins. Now i could have went with a fateseal and ankh of mishra direction, but i thought this might have worked better when omen machine wasnt in play.
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: [Theoretical]Omen Machine
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on: February 11, 2012, 11:50:25 pm
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No my build was well....janky....it played 4 Personal Tutor, 4 time Stretch, 4 Karn, 4 Wurmcoil Engine, 4 Karn PW, 4 metalworker, 4 Omen, 1 blight, 1 tinker, 1 acall, 1 time walk, 4 workshop, 4 ancient tomb, academy, and islands, and your basic restricted mana package. As I said janky, but the few games I played with it, and got Omen in Play, I simply won. Getting a Wurmcoil or Karn, then casting personal tutor in timestretch usually ended games pretty quickly.
hrmm, some of the stuff you played here i may use in my shell. ill post a list once i have gotten something that is more a funtional list. |
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: [Theoretical]Omen Machine
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on: February 11, 2012, 09:50:51 pm
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I have been testing Omen Machine a lil bit, my lists being far diff than the ideas your coming up with, but I can say 1 thing fro sure from testing, that Karn the PW is absolutely amazing in a deck with Omen Machine as it can exile any thing they play for free, and when they get a land, it can exile the cards in their hand, so they are down to topdeck mode. W/e list your trying I suggest 2-3 Karn PW.
ooo defintly a good answer to a good portion of the problems that omen machine faces. I this is more control driven but have you tried fateseal like ablities? i mean stuff that allows you to mess with your opponents top deck? |
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: [Theoretical]Omen Machine
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on: February 11, 2012, 07:10:53 pm
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I didn't see SDT in your list, so I assumed you missed it. Regardless of it's synergy with omen machine, it is great with Bobs....and those are the key. If you want to cast and protect omen, you need to draw cards - to draw acceleration and protection - and you need the alternate win con, since landing and sticking an omen machine will be next to impossible.
Being that black and artifact are definite needs (with tutors in black beside bob), and blue (jin, jace, tinker, other tutors), I'd suggest the U/B lands with urborg and workshops (or no urborg/shops and go with mana drains -> omen), and use thoughtseize/duress/show and tell as an alternate way to cheat in fatties around the cage. Once you see their hand, you can safely show and tell, or cast the omen without it getting countered/blown up.
With bob, i fear that i will eat an omen machine or an emrakul when i dont have a way to shape the top of my deck. Transmute Artifact may work very well in this case. It is not affected by cage. yes it still stops grabbing a creature, but it does find and place omen into play. The option still exists to make it  but that seems like a poor choice for this deck. |
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: [Theoretical]Omen Machine
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on: February 11, 2012, 03:40:39 pm
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Other than thinking this idea is terrible - I'll bite for the sake of fun.
You NEED sensei's tops. Not only does it help with card quality, but gives you bang when machine is out. For 1 mana you freely cast the best of your top 3. With shufflers, it's even better. With that said, you NEED Bobs. Confidant lets you draw when you can't draw, is good CA before omen machine comes online, and is great with tops. You probably will toss in huge CC beasts to take advantage on machine, so it is more risky, but SDT mitigates the damage (so I'd suggest at least 3 tops with 4 bobs). Another card to try is augury adept. I've been playing them to some success, though they are harder to cast and have to connect to get CA. Vs a heavier creature meta, it's obviously tough (my deck runs sowers/old man/plow/jace/counters to clear the path of blockers though). Basically, you'll need cards that put cards in hand without "drawing". I think a suite of tops and bobs are the best choice.
I know about the tops, i did put one in there, along with top deck malipulation spells, lim-dul's vault being the back bone of the deck. Finding the machine isnt really the issue, its casting it and protecting it. |
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: [Theoretical]Omen Machine
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on: February 10, 2012, 02:51:10 pm
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Quick question... how is this deck supposed to get Omen Machine into play before your opponent just kills you? I'm not seeing any acceleration or disruption.
I did say partial deck list, being 24 cards it is far from being complete. To answer your question, i do not know yet. I am open to all options. Things i have explored: - Metalworker: handsize is a small issue under the machine, though it is something still worth concidering.
- green ramp: havent fully explored this yet but it still has some potental
But a few road blocks exist: - counter magic is dead under the machine
- "draw a card" spells are dead under the machine.
- spheres are a hinderence to omen machine casting.
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: [Theoretical]Omen Machine
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on: February 09, 2012, 06:25:08 pm
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in that case, you can make a deck around omen machine and erayo  When fact or fiction got unrestricted I tested a deck with riddlesmith, welders and lots of artifacts. With lots of moxen (opal, chrome, etc), erayo is easier to flip, but usually you want cheap cantrips in a erayo deck, and that's not synergistic with omen... this card reminds me of maralen: you can't draw cards, but a more powerful effect affects both players. with maralen I wasn't able to find a right deck, but it was prior to leonin arbiter... Maralen has a home in a sphere heavy board with the arbiter, or with mindlock orb. Omen machine is made for a prison style deck. In an omen machine deck you have essentially an implied arcane laboratory, given that there is only one upkeep step per turn. Extra turns, deck manipulation/stacking set the conditions for this to be quite powerful. Also when omen machine comes down your hand is your hand without an abundance of draw dodging effects, thus you are stuck playing one spell at a time from your top deck. here is a partial deck list Creatures 1x Emrakul spells 4x Lim-Dul's Vault 1x Vampric tutor 1x impulse 4x portent 1x ransack 1x necro Plainswalker 4x Jace 2.0 Artifact 2x Omen Machine 1x top Lands Hallamar depths |
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: [Theoretical]Omen Machine
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on: February 09, 2012, 04:17:16 am
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This card does very little against aggro decks, confidants, MUD (althought your spells dodge spheres), oath, and also Ichorid to my knowledge. And potential good pairings are probably too fast for this strategy to be viable.
I can see this card in the SB for slaver, but there are better options...
it does not dodge spheres, as the spells are still cast, abet from exile but still casted, that is why a top deck emrakul under the omen machine is quite rough. For omen machine to work the card must have a tool box of threats that are more potent than what your opponent is playing. |
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Eternal Formats / Creative / [Theoretical]Omen Machine (updated with decklist)
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on: February 08, 2012, 06:38:18 pm
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 With the printing of grafdigger's cage, I thought it worth looking at omen machine again. To be clear I understand that the cage would not stop creatures cast through omen machine's ability, as it is cast from exile. I have read the previous discussion here on the card. In the previous discussion the following advantages and drawbacks were noted: - It is expensive in the terms of the format, at
 mana. - Your opponent benefits from it. Omen grants them the ability for top decking serious threats to you. E.g. BSC, Emerkul, and Ancient Grudge.
- It does nothing to prevent in play threats.
The positives of the card - It stops dredge, gush, and other draw abilities.
- Also it hinders counter magic.
With that said, I wonder if the cage could add some measure of defense so omen machine can be used. The potential of this deck is outstanding. The idea is to constantly top deck threats that are far more damaging than what your opponent is pulling. There are quite a few cards that having a strong synergy with omen machine. I will review some these cards to the best of my ability for use with omen machine; this is not an exhaustive list but a sample to what is availible. Gold Lim-Dûl's Vault Lim-dul’s vault sets up the top five cards of your deck it is repeatable so the potential to finding a, this can be quite powerful provided that the stack that ends up on top is a clear threat. Diabolic Vision As with the vault this sets up the top deck of your library, with the add bonus of grabbing you a card. Unlike the vault this is not repeatable. Elemental Augury This card seems really restrictive due to the high cost and the color requirement. However, under omen machine this card becomes a very strong lock piece in the manner of being able to fateseal your opponent for 3. Without omen its usefulness questionable. Blue Jace, the Mind Sculptor Under omen machine jace can function as a repeatable Fateseal for 2, and is a source of a possible win condition. Not much needs to be said about jace’s usefulness without omen machine. Portent Can function as fateseal 3 under omen or a pseudo-scry for yourself. Without omen it’s a bit slow for a draw spell. Impulse This grants you a card like the vision, yet only goes 4 deep; the tradeoff for this is it is a bit friendlier to multi-color decks to cast. Gifts Ungiven Dodges the draw restriction, grants 2 cards Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur Control aspect through forced reduction of opponent’s hand size, win con through dmg Black Necropotence Reloads your Hand, dodges the draw restriction. Dark Confidant Dodges card draw restriction. Vampiric Tutor This tutor is powerful under omen machine with the prior drawback of the tutored card to the top of the library into an advantage; the same can be said for all the top-deck tutors. Red Any heavy direct damage spell has use under omen machine. Winds of Change Under omen machine this functions as “all players discard their hands” Zo-Zu the Punisher This has an interesting interaction that under omen machine you are forced to play lands, combined with fateseal like abilities it can lead to a significant amount of damage. Artifact Ankh of Mishra Like zo-zu this has the same interesting interaction under omen machine. |
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Vintage Community Discussion / Rules Q&A / Spine of Ish Sah
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on: February 04, 2012, 03:56:26 pm
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I have two goblin welders in play, a Spine of Ish Sah and a Krark-Clan Ironworks. Assuming the other target for goblin welder is legal. I am trying to figure out where the spine end up and if i can destroy more than one permanent with it. Spine of Ish Sah When Spine of Ish Sah enters the battlefield, destroy target permanent. When Spine of Ish Sah is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, return Spine of Ish Sah to its owner's hand. Goblin welder  Choose target artifact a player controls and target artifact card in that player's graveyard. If both targets are still legal as this ability resolves, that player simultaneously sacrifices the artifact and returns the artifact card to the battlefield. is this how the stack would go if weld out spine once? [destroy target permanent < return spine to hand] Now can i respond to the return to hand trigger with the second welder to return it to play? stack: [destroy target permanent < return spine to hand < weld back into play with the second welder< sac to Krark-Clan Ironworks to place it in the gy< destroy peremanent< return to hand] |
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: [Theoetical]Intruding Welder
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on: January 29, 2012, 05:36:39 am
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Ahh i see, extra copies only potentally have increased value in very specific and conditional states. What i mean is that under welder/alarm a pinger has substantially more value than BSC. As, the pingers cant be really bounced or negated as easily as BSC, since you can keep responding till the cows come home. I do recognize the high value of BSC when not under the welder/alarm state, however shouldn't the main focus be on finding and resolving and protecting the combo?. My inclination to a "Damn the torpedoes! Full speed a head" type of mentality maybe hindering my ability to see the value of this in context. I think you're forgetting the part where I pointed out that people just kill your welder instead of your pinger. It's the smarter target: - Alarm + Welder + Myr = infinite damage.
- Alarm + Welder = infinite welds.
- Alarm + Myr = 2 damage.
Also, I'm not sure where you got the idea that you can respond indefinitely. Assuming your opponent understands the stack at all, he/she will wait until you activate Welder, then kill it in response (meaning welder is tapped and cannot respond further). I did miss that detail. Thank you for your patient explanation, i will try to pay attention to the finer details more. Sounds like we're headed back towards Slaver, heh. Not that I'm complaining, mind. For a less control-oriented route, it seems like the deck could be sped up by the inclusion of Bazaar. It's also possible to go the spheres + shops+ tombs + magus of the moon route. Jens naturally gets you around spheres. Nothing protects an infi slaver combo like a wall of spheres. True both points. Mono-red bazaar would be faster, but you might lose a touch of resilience and blue brokenness. The only problem I see with spheres is casting Intruder Alarm underneath them. It could be problematic when you have more than 2 in play. Would metalworker/Millikin help with casting under the spheres? It would, but how many decks are we trying to mash together, here All of them! hehe. Humor aside, too bad there isn't room for millikin/top. But there isn't another way to cast it through the spheres? Perhaps going with the silence package instead would work, just a thought. |
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: [Theoetical]Intruding Welder
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on: January 28, 2012, 02:43:56 am
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Ahh i see, extra copies only potentally have increased value in very specific and conditional states. What i mean is that under welder/alarm a pinger has substantially more value than BSC. As, the pingers cant be really bounced or negated as easily as BSC, since you can keep responding till the cows come home. I do recognize the high value of BSC when not under the welder/alarm state, however shouldn't the main focus be on finding and resolving and protecting the combo?. My inclination to a "Damn the torpedoes! Full speed a head" type of mentality maybe hindering my ability to see the value of this in context. I think you're forgetting the part where I pointed out that people just kill your welder instead of your pinger. It's the smarter target: - Alarm + Welder + Myr = infinite damage.
- Alarm + Welder = infinite welds.
- Alarm + Myr = 2 damage.
Also, I'm not sure where you got the idea that you can respond indefinitely. Assuming your opponent understands the stack at all, he/she will wait until you activate Welder, then kill it in response (meaning welder is tapped and cannot respond further). I did miss that detail. Thank you for your patient explanation, i will try to pay attention to the finer details more. Sounds like we're headed back towards Slaver, heh. Not that I'm complaining, mind. For a less control-oriented route, it seems like the deck could be sped up by the inclusion of Bazaar. It's also possible to go the spheres + shops+ tombs + magus of the moon route. Jens naturally gets you around spheres. Nothing protects an infi slaver combo like a wall of spheres. True both points. Mono-red bazaar would be faster, but you might lose a touch of resilience and blue brokenness. The only problem I see with spheres is casting Intruder Alarm underneath them. It could be problematic when you have more than 2 in play. Would metalworker/Millikin help with casting under the spheres? |
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: [Theoetical]Intruding Welder
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on: January 27, 2012, 02:39:53 pm
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Why is having the redundancy not a good thing? Typically in terms of disruptablitity, it would make it resistant against cap effects. I am not totally sold on blightsteel since he can be bounced or negated. Redundancy is bad because by definition it means a card is unnecessary. I realize this can easily come across as too nitpicky, but if you have a Mox Monkey in play, a second copy in hand is technically redundant until the first one eats a Swords/Bolt/etc. The big question is whether your stuff will be removed enough for the extra copies to be relevant more often than redundant (or if the card is so critically important that it's worth it wasting space to the dead copy). Welders fall into the former category and Alarms fall into the latter. Extra pingers will almost never fulfill either requirement. People will almost always nuke welders over your pingers, and BSC clearly strong enough to be primary gameplan, it's plenty good as a backup. I'm a bit confused by your statement that you're not sold on it. Sure it can be bounced/negated. That still makes it tenfold more resilient than the pingers, which are vulnerable to those same cards in addition to blockers, burn, and artifact destruction. Ahh i see, extra copies only potentally have increased value in very specific and conditional states. What i mean is that under welder/alarm a pinger has substantially more value than BSC. As, the pingers cant be really bounced or negated as easily as BSC, since you can keep responding till the cows come home. I do recognize the high value of BSC when not under the welder/alarm state, however shouldn't the main focus be on finding and resolving and protecting the combo?. My inclination to a "Damn the torpedoes! Full speed a head" type of mentality maybe hindering my ablity to see the value of this in context. |
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: [Theoetical]Intruding Welder
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on: January 26, 2012, 09:24:20 pm
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Just looked at the creature list from the other thread. If stony silence / null rod are prevalent, Perilous Myr is a pretty decent substitute for Trike. Nice, I'd missed that. Much better than Pierce Strider. Why not have both? Remember, loss of life gets around Angel's grace and other corner cases, whereas Perilous Myr can be used to Sharpshooot the opponent's board down, which is relevant against MUD and Stax decks for getting rid of Golems. For corner cases where the combo doesn't work, you have Blightsteel to circumvent them. Extra pinger dudes are most likely redundant unless it's a meta concern to have extra the removal (you live in Dark Confidant land). Has anyone played a match with this yet? What are the Game 1 pitfalls? Why is having the redundncy not a good thing? Typically in terms of disruptablitity, it would make it resistant against cap effects. I am not totally sold on blightsteel since he can be bounced or negated. |
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: [Theoetical]Intruding Welder
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on: January 26, 2012, 12:34:57 pm
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Just looked at the creature list from the other thread. If stony silence / null rod are prevalent, Perilous Myr is a pretty decent substitute for Trike.
i did wonder about the use of trike, i had guessed you chose it over the others because of the 3 dmg vs 2 dmg potential in addition to the versatility of the counters, a potential of 3 targets vs 1. |
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: [Theoetical]Intruding Welder
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on: January 26, 2012, 09:10:52 am
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@Waffles: I'd suggest trying to think of all these creatures in terms of what they do before you've assembled the combo. Jens has decent utility beforehand, unlike Mechanist (overcosted) and Sojourners (very narrow). The deck doesn't need more wincons, since Trike/BSC pretty much trump alternatives anyway. If more creatures are needed, they should be accelerants such as Myr/Etherium Sculptor or have some serious utility (like say Revoker). In all cases, we should be looking for creatures that are easier to cast if at all possible.
Also, to be clear: I wasn't complaining saying that going off w/ 2x Jens was too slow. It really doesn't matter when you're going infinite anyway. My point was that you end up drawing your deck but lack the free mana to take advantage of having done so, and lack the sort of spells that leverage the CA against your opponent.
hrmm, seems my ambition far outstrips my knowledge base for this format. Beyond what has been already said in this post or the other one, ive got nothing. |
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: [Theoetical]Intruding Welder
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on: January 25, 2012, 02:53:03 pm
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I like this version a lot.
One of the thing that was bothering me was that Welder + Alarm + 2x Jens didn't get you there. You get lots of (tapped) basics and CA, but still have to pass. With jewelry, you really should be able to win on the spot, and if for whatever reason you can't, drawing til you've got 2x or 3x FoW ought to keep you alive through their turn.
Do you think it'd be worthwhile to add in a singleton bounce spell for opposing Leylines?
Yes 2x Jen loop is extranius under the alarm sure you draw quite abit what else are you going to do with it? With that said the loop should be more often then not Jen+ something else, depending on if you really need the cards. ive added +1 mechanist, +1 Sojourners -1 jen. My the reason for choices are that the mechanist can find you something faster in one cycle than just 2x jen. The Sojourners gives you a control aspect by tapping everything out or untapping your things. Btw, this is a very good home for my pet card, Bitter Ordeal in a one off as a 3rd win con, it works since we have a gy recurrsion loop. Jen+Sojourners: control, land fetch/draw loop. 2 Bloodstained Mire 4 Sclading tarn 1 Mountain 3 Island 2 Underground Sea 3 Volcanic Island 1 Black Lotus 1 Mox Jet 1 Mox Ruby 1 Mox Sapphire 1 Mox Pearl 1 Mox Emerald 1 Sol Ring 1 Mana Vault 1 Mana Crypt 3 Solemn Simulacrum 1 Triskelion 1 Faerie Mechanist 1 Blightsteel Colossus 1 Esper Sojourners 4 Goblin Welder 3 Gorilla Shaman 4 Intruder Alarm 4 Careful Study 2 Faithless Looting 2 Breakthrough // 1 Merchant Scroll, 1 Breakthrough 4 Force of Will 1 Ancestral Recall 1 Tinker 1 Hurkyl's Recall 1 Demonic Tutor 1 Vampiric Tutor 1 Time Walk 1 Brainstorm |
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: [Theoetical]Intruding Welder
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on: January 25, 2012, 01:14:01 am
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Off the top of my head:
-Black for Tutors is probably fine, but Disciple doesn't seem worthwhile. The list should be built so that if you're going off you win w/out having to cast him.
-I'd like to include all the jewelry, but I believe waffles builds underpowered.
-Trike + Strider seems redundant, which would you lean towards?
-With guys like Dupe/Titan, Intuition feels like an even stronger call.
-We can probably cut to 3x Mox Monkey, since he sucks in multiples.
-I don't think Stitcher makes the cut.
-I'd probably mainboard a Hurkyl's and a piece of bounce to tutor up.
-Maybe Frantic Search or Read the Runes over Faithless Looting? There will definitely be times where you want cards off the top, or want to dump a piece that's already in hand. The list doesn't care about CA very much, we're not about to engage in counterwars here.
I do build underpowered, but i would like to build this with the community in mind, so lets do a powered version i can make adjustments from there. 4x Solemn seems a bit much i would try 2 Solemn instead. Architects of Will seems like a very powerful control option, through the manipulation of the opponent's top deck in addition to your own. Faerie Mechanist is a good tutor option, finding any artifact. Any number of the discard options available could get it to the gy. It is a worth a look for at core prowler for the loop, ramping counters on smokestack at the end of my turn, would cause the stax player to lose everything. The infect is an attractive feature to it too. Sylvok Replica seems to be the best answer to Leyline of the void, and Oath. As Delha had pointed out the dredge hate is this deck's natural enemy. An additional threat to this deck is a welder mirror. They could do the same trick we are trying to accomplish which is very bad. In this case necropede seems like an okay option. Why the battlesphere over wurmcoil engine? Also since we are using black does is the inclusion of lim-dul's vault, tezz's gambit seem warrented? |
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Proliferate Inquiry
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on: January 25, 2012, 12:12:21 am
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As for the basis of the deck, i was looking at a few possiblities in the case i am not under alarm/welder, something like just artifact aggro, like slash panther, ravager or doing something with omen machine/top deck malipluation would work. but that all seems aniemic. As for the gy hate the best answer in colorless for enchantment hate for leyline of the void, is Sylvok Replica. outside of adding another color beyond the UR base the options are quite limited. In blue stern proctor, which seems quite weak Let's keep this discussion to the other thread you started. I didnt start that thread, my idea yes, but not my thread.  Futher Disscusion of this deck idea is found here: http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=43865.0 |
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Proliferate Inquiry
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on: January 24, 2012, 03:40:26 pm
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Not trying to rain on your parade, but for the sake of clarity, I'd recommend against expecting this to shake up the entire meta. I honestly do believe that built out properly, this could make for a solid T2-T3 list, but hoenstly, I don't expect Dredge to be displaced as THE competitive grave-based strategy anytime soon. Just want to set reasonable expectations.
From there, my recommendation is to try building this out with cheap, utilitarian artifacts (not necessarily all creatures) that play well with Welder. You want to make sure the deck still does something when you don't have the combo out.
Intuition helps dig up Intruder Alarm and grabbing your wincons after that.
Mox Monkey should be included to kill the Cages people are going to be running, and obviously plays well with Welder.
Finally, you'll also want answers (in the side, at minimum) for the Dredge hate that'll naturally come in against you.
I did said impact i wasn't implying that this idea would shake the foundations of Tier 1 decks and cause them to crumble. My comentary was about finally thinking of something that could be concidered tier, a grand achievement for me, for that i am quite happy. As for the basis of the deck, i was looking at a few possiblities in the case i am not under alarm/welder, something like just artifact aggro, like slash panther, ravager or doing something with omen machine/top deck malipluation would work. but that all seems aniemic. As for the gy hate the best answer in colorless for enchantment hate for leyline of the void, is Sylvok Replica. outside of adding another color beyond the UR base the options are quite limited. In blue stern proctor, which seems quite weak |
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29
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Proliferate Inquiry
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on: January 24, 2012, 03:00:44 am
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...intruder alarm+ welder, two artifact creatures like Solemn Simulacrum+ Core Prowler nets land thinning and card draw with proliferate infinitely. And including Pierce Strider and kills them straight up. Infinite welds (so long as you're using artifact creatures) is so open ended that winning is almost incidental from there. Do you mean to tell me that i found something that isnt convoluted, underpowered and has a greater chance of actually winning? Certainly. Intruder Alarm has a long proud tradition of spawning broken ass combo decks. Pairing welder with Jens and the like is also independently good. Throwing them all together qualifies in my book as pretty straightforward (relative to say, DOTH combo), and indisputably powerful. I suppose this means you're no longer willing to work on it? :p It's not that, just getting over the fact that we've stepped into the twilight zone. As nothing ive propsed here has ever been like that, hehe. Yay for thinking of something that may have an impact on the format. Looking at what is possible for this deck in the terms of what the infinte cycles are: Draw: Runed Servitor, Solemn Simulacrum Land Destruction: Sundering Titan Mana: Su-chi, Cathodion, Myr Moonvessel Landfall: Hedron Scrabbler Counters: Coretapper Poliferate: Core Prowler Land tutor: Pilgrim's Eye, Solemn Simulacrum Life loss/damage: Perilous Myr, Parasitic Strix, Pierce Strider, Sludge Strider, Geistcatcher's Rig Tokens: Myr Sire, Precursor Golem, Wurmcoil Engine -1/-1 Counters: Lockjaw Snapper, Pith Driller, Necropede, +1/+1: Any modular creature Fog: Auriok Replica, Ethersworn Shieldmage Artifact Retreval: Junk Diver, Sanctum Gargoyle, Sharuum the Hegemon, Myr Retriever Artifact Tutor: Sphinx Summoner, Faerie Mechanist, Top Deck Malipualtion: Architects of Will, Tap/Untap: Esper Sojourners, Dross Scorpion Power/Toughness: Glaze Fiend, Glassdust Hulk Creature Removal: Duplicant Gy Removal: Mirror Golem, Heap Doll Life Reset: Magister Sphinx, Life Gain: Peace Strider, Anodet Lurker, Filigree Angel Turn skip: Eater of Days Misc: Summoner's Egg, Clone Shell Yes some of the interactions are not optimal, and i may have missed a few interactions, but that is what possible with infinte welds. Now the hard part, figuring out what the deck does. |
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30
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Proliferate Inquiry
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on: January 23, 2012, 02:32:10 pm
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...intruder alarm+ welder, two artifact creatures like Solemn Simulacrum+ Core Prowler nets land thinning and card draw with proliferate infinitely. And including Pierce Strider and kills them straight up. Infinite welds (so long as you're using artifact creatures) is so open ended that winning is almost incidental from there. Do you mean to tell me that i found something that isnt convoluted, underpowered and has a greater chance of actually winning? |
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