Alright lets see... these are all just for vintage, mind you...

Spiritmonger - Such a great creature, yet... too slow to make a good solid dent.
Naked Singularity - With eon hub, it would just be so sick against opponents that use a deck that uses 1 or 2 colors.
Eon Hub - Opens up so many options with cards that have upkeep costs.
The Tabernacle at Pendrel Vale - Very lesser-known and older land. I personally like to throw this in whenever I see aggro, but never anywhere where I could keep it.
Any of the Legendary elder dragons - Giant beatsticks, but a tish costly and upkeep costs are also a drag.
Any of the 5 Legendary dragons from Invasion - Interesting abilities, and strong.
Akroma/SotN outside Oath - Fabulous creatures, but... oath is a little boring after a while.
Uncle Istvan - Just mainly one of my favorite cards ever. No real great purpose, but it's just a neat card. That, and The Dark is my favorite set... not many strong cards, but just a cool set.
City of Shadows - Kinda along the same lines as Istvan, but under very specific conditions, it can be pretty interesting.
Dragon Tyrant - Insanely costly, yet very very powerful. I used to run him in a casual red deck, and if he hit the board, i won.
Konda, Lord of Eiganjo - Well, you can't tell me you wouldn't get a kick out of an indestructable creature that wasn't Darksteel Colossus.

And as a note to other people. There is a deck that does use Artificers Intuition, and did very well for how sudden it was. Talk to policehq if you want to know more about it.

Uh, not to bicker, but I have one thought. You say "This looks like...". That basically tells me that you are bashing the deck without seeing how it actually does in the field. Instead of bashing a deck for it not doing as well as another deck, why not give us insight about why you believe this? Unless you explain why you say this, we might just as well take your comment with as much consideration as a 3 year old trying to explain to you how to save a victim of a gunshot wound.

Anyways, I'm happy to see the thread re-made. I personally enjoy Black Fish. The stability of a mono-colored mana base, the stronger hate cards of black, and nice beaters.

My big question is this. Is a lone Edict sufficient against the random Tinker-Colossus? Obviously, Games 2 and 3 can be much more favorable, but I'm just curious how well it works.

[begin irritable rant] Okay, now seriously here. Explain why one copy might benefit this deck. What will it help against? Might more than one work? What would you recommend removing? I know that some of us will know why it's good, but other people, like the new and inexperienced, might not understand why. [end irritable rant]

That being said, lets get onto why I think they might be beneficial. While some people may thing that pithing needle is a second-rate card, I strongly disagree. Pithing needle can stop things like Wastelands, which against this deck can be fairly devastating, especially when they add in a CoW. Pithing needle can protect your mana base, which is really helpful. Running 11 lands, with 11 non-land sources, a steady stream of wastes will slow the deck down considerably. Needle also stops welders, which can be quite a nuisance. Sure, if he lands out Kira, then he's much safer, but until then... yeah.

Anyways, very solid deck IMHO. I've playtested him with it, and he knocked my block off.

He really is right. Me and policehq have played many games, so I've seen how much white can benefit the deck. I could restate every one of his points, and try and reinforce it, but that would be pretty much pointless, since you all get the idea.

I would just like to touch on a few little matters here.

First off, the talk about abilities, mechanics, and other things printed.

I suppose I can understand why you're unhappy. Wizards really did overload magic with a lot of mechanics. At first, a lot of them gave way to interesting decks. The problem is, over time, many of these mechanics became very inefficient and thus unused. Some of the newer mechanics will see very little play in type 1 as well. Things like the Epic mechanic would be very difficult to utilize well... many people won't even bother to try.

I also understand why some people don't appreciate the alternate win condition cards that have been printed. The thing is, how many of these do you see used competatively today? The only one I have seen as of recent has been Battle of Wits.

The talk about type 2 dying out has a few reasons as well.

It's true that in some places, people have drifted away from type 2 for type 1. This happens for many-a-reason. Obviously, there will be people frustrated with a format that has many new mechanics constantly popping up, adding far too many extra dimensions to the gameplay. Probably one of the reasons that some people don't think about is simply this. Type 1 is, in it's own respect, a more prestegious format than the others. The reason I say this is because of the more expensive decks. While it's true that people with money and/or power can make very nice decks, it still requires a set level of skill to pilot the deck efficiently. Type 1 also offers one thing in select tournaments that some people overlook, but the poorer of the crowd (such as myself) take a great delight in. I'm talking about proxies. Proxy tournaments are one of the things that really attracts people into playing type 1. I'm sure that most of the people that will read this have seen the times when a person will take a moderately (sorry to those who might get mad if you are one of these people) crappy deck, slap power into it, and then play it with a big grin on their face.

The third point is about the 'Theme-based Tournaments'.

Just because people don't hold these very often doesn't mean that they don't anymore. Even then, that's beside the point! If you want to play a tournament like that, hold one! Around here, me and friends will occasionally hold big games and tournaments of all sorts. Sometimes we will do ones where all decks have to be tribal-based, other times its a double-elimination Emperor tournament (the funnest 77 hours of my life I might add), or even more! Hosting tournaments can really do a lot for a metagame. If you can host fun events, and make sure the people that played had a good time, there's nothing stopping them from coming back again to play some more.

Anyways, That's all I really wanted to say about that. I really do understand what you are getting at, and I'm glad that somebody points out these things. Sometimes when certain things with formats and metagames go bad, it's up to us (loyal MTG players) to fix the problem.

And the point that cssamerican made... good call! You are absolutely right about the true mistakes made in the game, but the restricted mistakes are still uber broken in the meta. With the SoLoMoxen as almost definate staples in any deck (strange enough, I have a deck that solomoxen will actually hurt the efficiency of the deck), the game really is still as broken as a ceramic cup dropped from the top of the empire states building.

So anyways... farewell until next time, viewers (god that feels like I'm a T.V. reporter or something).

Thats 18 cards in the SB... was that intentional or were you not paying attention? Just thought I'd point out that you're 3 cards over the traditional limit.

What would you take out if you were going to insert power into the deck? Also, what if an opponent played null rod, or a pithing needle... or a meddling mage for that matter? The problem I see is that there are still plenty of decks that can hurt your strategy fairly well because of what they run. This goes the same for any deck out there, but do you feel that you're prepared to deal with things like that?

My last line of questions is this... What decks does this fare well against? I guess, any deck can look good on paper, but the testing is the real part. What have you tested against, and how did this deck perform? Or are these just fairly educated guesses? Either way, I would like a little insight.

My short answer to whether these are viable is no.

The truth is, there are far too many inefficiencies with this card to make it viable. Aimed toward the white epic spell, I will name these problems off accordingly.

Problem #1 - The mana cost.

Having a 7cc, this card is just awfully expensive. By the time you have 7 mana available to cast this card, your opponent will have a very strong defense set up. With my experience, You having enough mana for a one-shot epic spell typically means that 1) the opponent already has an awesome defense, 2) the opponent sucks, or is letting you do that to feel out your strategy, or my favorite,  3) the opponent is going to smash your face in with their deck, as they are about to win.

Problem #2 - The limited effectiveness of its ability.

Only receiving one enchantment per turn is very inefficient. This will have a fairly slow clock for killing your opponent (form of the dragon takes the next few turns, depending on the number of them you run). Honestly the most viable approach to this is by first bringing in Nether Void so their tricks become somewhat limited, then starting the havoc. Still, this takes precious turns, and once they get started, this will probably be very ineffective.

Problem #3 - The epic mechanic itself.

Having this spell be the last spell you ever play, this can really damage your chances of surviving. Unless you have a row of Isochron Scepters sitting on the board with an array of tech spells, you may just get smoked by the opponent. Since I can remember, vintage somewhat revolves around having a defense up as you play against an opponent. Even with combo, you will need to take certain precautions just so a deck doesn't attack your kill, and then kill you.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Bottom line
There is a lot of goofy little bugs with this, but I'm pretty sure that somebody somewhere might find an interesting thing that these can do that we are all overlooking. Anyways... after this long-winded post explaining why I don't think it will work, I bid you all farewell.

Well... while you are right in the respect that there are better choices for hating out things, you also hit the truth... this thing is really versatile! In all honesty, you will more than likely have to run cards that affect multiple decks, but aren't necessarily the best choice for certain ones. I would rather be somewhat prepared for a plethora of decks, instead of being very well prepared for one deck, but incredibly vulnerable against another.

About the type 2 players? No I don't feel sorry for them. Many that I know are far too immature for me to feel any sympathy towards. It would be like playing against a group of 5 year old children... far too annoying for my tastes.

About chains and In the Eye of Chaos, I really do agree. Considering the amount of counterspells and whatnot in the field right now, these two cards could make an interesting effect against the metagame. In the eye of chaos already makes force of will, misdirection, and an assortment of other spells useless because of the radical casting cost. Chains of Mephistopheles just shuts down draw... nuff said.

Now that I've stated common knowledge, I will end my reply and stop wasting your time... 

This is actually fairly cool. As you've said before, the mana cost is fair. 1U is nice. And with all the different decks that utilize storm, this could very well be an incredible addition of protection for a storm deck. This card forces the opponent to play a lot more cautiously. Losing the wrong card means certain doom for an opponent, and this could also be an amazing addition to a hardcore control deck.

I would love to talk more about this card, but I just realized I have a lot of homework, and my laundry machine is probably on fire, so bye bye!

I strongly disagree with the choice of a sixty first card. I used to run a version of kobold-clamp that ran 61 cards... it ran decent, but really did get hammered by matchups that are about 50/50 80% of the time. Funny enough, once i dropped down to sixty cards, the 50/50 matchups were in my favor 60% of the time. Considering what khahan said, the insane number of card combinations you can draw, the extra card doesn't help enough to make it plausable (usually...).

That said, i've noticed something. This thread really turned into a hardcore statistic thread! I'm not saying that's bad by any means, but I personally think it's pretty funny.

Metman also has a good point however. The truth is that type 1 has a plethora of tutors and incredibly powerful draw engines that can go off without any forewarning. 61 cards would make a fairly suttle difference, especially with the tutors. You could easily setup your next draw to be whatever the 61st card is. At the same time, there will always be stupid control decks (stupid as in really annoying) that will have the Force of Will in hand waiting to (figuratively speaking) throw a stick in the spokes of your bike as you are riding on your way towards victory.

I guess in all actuallity, everything I just typed out was a waste of time for one very good reason. More than anything, this is a matter of preference. Some people will value another silver bullet, while others outweigh the bullet with the suttle change in consistency.

Anyways, those are my two cents... adios!

The meta is basically like this... things that resemble type 2, about 2 people that actually have power, a few old school types of players that arent bad... needless to say, i just got sick of it and don't play here. I haven't actually shuffled a deck in over a year, i've been doing all my ideas with MWS. In due time I will arrange my own tournaments and try to spark up some kind of a 'good' metagame.

About the Mox Monkeys, I don't think I should change up the colors at all (by adding one) so I think that this will be decent. Cabal therapy would be a cool choice. Since chalice DOES kill this deck, I run oxidize in the SB. I know it may not be nearly as intimidating as the monkey, but at the same time, I dont think they are going to get multiple chalices out... especially not for 0 (just seems redundant to drop multiples for 0... then again, redundancy is good).

Anyways... just a few things... adios!

I see... gotcha!

With the Phyrexian Altar, I've been looking for a suitable replacement. Far too many times will it sit in my hand, dead, wishing it were something useful. Also, the Tinder wall is a great idea, but at the same time, for 1 green mana more I can drop a channel, which usually seals the game for me (very persuasive with the clamp).

Songs of the Damned is a great idea as far as it goes. Adding 1 in MD is definately a to-do.

My biggest question is what should I run as far as a SB for one of those "anything you could expect" types of metas? I usually just play on MWS because the meta in the middle of north dakota is about as bad as gun sales in a church (basically I'm saying it's non-existant... its THAT casual). As far as the tendrils go, that was just a number where I could imprint one on a chrome mox if i wanted, or whatever. Basically it's purpose was along the lines of "If I find one, even if it's not lethal, maybe I'll just cast it anyways... (followed by 1-3 more)" and in that respect it's done fine.

What I may do is drop 1, take out the altars, swap a dark rit for a songs of the damned, sway Gemstone mines for Bayous, see about doing a few land grants, and from there I will add and remove as I deem necessary.

I truly am amazed with how well this deck plays however. Last night, while I was just sitting around playing a random person, it had 3 first-turn kills, 1 second-turn kill, and 1 loss because I got bored and decked myself on purpose.

Anyways, shoot ideas away yall!

Alrighty... since I'm from north dakota, and I play this deck a lot (especially recently), I decided I would show my list and let you guys look.

// Lands
    4  Gemstone Mine

// Creatures
    4  Crookshank Kobolds
    4  Kobolds of Kher Keep
    4  Crimson Kobolds
    4  Myr Moonvessel
    4  Ornithopter

// Spells
    1  Mox Sapphire
    1  Black Lotus
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Mox Pearl
    1  Mox Ruby
    1  Sol Ring
    4  Dark Ritual
    4  Skullclamp
    1  Chrome Mox
    1  Mana Crypt
    1  Mana Vault
    1  Vampiric Tutor
    4  Tendrils of Agony
    1  Demonic Tutor
    1  Yawgmoth's Will
    1  Enlightened Tutor
    1  Mox Emerald
    3  Glimpse of Nature
    1  Channel
    2  No Rest for the Wicked
    4  Phyrexian Altar

// Sideboard
SB: 2  No Rest for the Wicked
SB: 4  Oxidize
SB: 4  Duress
SB: 3  Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2  Bind

The SB has been subject to change for a while now... but thet MD is fairly good. It goldfishes quite well. You may ask why I only run 3 glimpses, and its simply because I only felt like running 3 (and it seems to run smoother for some reason... donno why). Anyways, No Rest for the Wicked is like the kobold tech of the gods. It, along with clamp is incredible.

You might also comment on my using channel. It hasn't failed me yet... if anything it'll bait a counter.

The biggest problem here is no protection/hate of any sort MD. I guess the MD really tries to nail them quick, and hard.

Anyways, feel free to bash or praise all you like... thanks...

Well, I was thinking about it, and what about including maindeck berserks? The thing is, you will probably want to get it over in one swing. I guess I just like the possibility of killing a turn faster with a huge creature, but then again it sure does have it's mishaps. If an opponent has any method at all of preventing you from attacking, then you probably wasted a lot of cards. I suppose that berserk is just one of those fuels for a deck that makes it go through half the work for a kill that can backfire somewhat, but isn't that somewhat like combo? (a faster plan with more room to backfire?)

I was also curious about running any form of draw-7 (mainly timetwister). I figure that if you go the route of a psychatog kill, granted you don't have a lot of cards in the graveyard, it might add a little fuel to the flame. I do think that a card like windfall would be pretty stellar in this deck however. If you went through all the trouble drawing, and then casted that, it would be a huge jump for the lone tog.

If I sound like an idiot right now, I apologize... I am really tired and quite stressed out, but I still make time to post here.

Anyways, I hope GAT can someday make an enormous comeback...

I really do whole-heartedly support him using extractions. The truth is that it isn't very difficult to decide what an opponent is playing, which leads to an extraction, which if anything will get you a peek at their deck. For a while I've been testing a deck that runs lobotomys MD and extractions SB, but in all actuallity i do like extractions better in many ways.

Really nice report though. I enjoyed it a lot.

This isn't originally my idea, but I thought I would point out something... what about the card Kentaro, the Smiling Cat. Personally I think that it could show a lot of potential. Eliminating the cc of white samurais, you could run a myriad of off-white mana acceleration (basically artifact mana). With Kentaro, you could run ancient tomb, city of traitors, and so many other things including all the solomoxen.

Just a thought....

This is how I look at it. Since there is a lot of disagreement as to if Disruption Shoal is good I'll just point out the facts.

First off, it really does depend on what deck you are playing. If you are playing a generic draw-7 tendrils deck, chances are this won't see much play as it is pretty situational for you to be able to pop this one off.

Second, diversity of the cc in blue cards you have. If all you run are Misdirection, Morphling, Force of Will, this, and a bunch of 1-2 cc cards, this will rarely be THE card you need unless they play something with the correct cc.

Really it depends on your matchup because of all the different decks that are played in type 1. One matchup could be against 2 land belcher, and the next against 5/3.

My main point is that if you are going to run this card, try something like Steve Menendian's Smmenen blue deck. It really is one of the most compatable decks with this card. Since it's mono-blue and carries a variety of useful blue cards, you can deal with an array of threats.

In all actuality theres alot of things that you can do. It seems that you want to use this as an aggro deck which is okay but you could do something a bit different. Theres a deck of a friends that has done really well over the time he's used it. The biggest question is that is red and green the best colors for the deck? My friend uses Blue Green and Black, and its a combo deck.

His deck is very well built because it can stand against nearly every deck and its combo is so abusable. The only deck he seems to have trouble with is fish but he hasn't said how the most recent playing is. And there are also easier ways to win. Also his win condition cant be countered or removed from the game via. STP.

His main winning conditions are between Barbarian Ring, Infinite life, and Glacial Chasm. Heres his build

4 Polluted Delta
4 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Undiscovered Paradise
1 Bayou
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Strip Mine
3 Wasteland
3 Mishra's Workshop
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Glacial Chasm

1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Black Lotus

1 Memory Jar
1 Zuran Orb
4 Horn of Greed
4 Crucible of Worlds
2 Engineered Explosives

4 Exploration
1 Fastbond
1 Trade Routes

1 Regrowth
1 Time Walk
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Tinker
1 Timetwister
1 Yawgmoth's Will
2 Living Wish

1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Crop Rotation
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Brainstorm

SB:
1 Gorilla Shaman
1 Woodripper
1 Viridian Zealot
1 Platinum Angel

4 Null Rod
4 Damping Matrix

1 Wasteland
1 Glacial Chasm
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

One thing about the sideboard is The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale. First off i suggested it to him. Secondly it is so unbelievably powerful against creature decks. If they are pouring mana into creatures for upkeep costs each turn they are going to be hurting. Other than that its pretty simple.