Hey dude.  Good job on writing up a primer - I think it was about time that this deck got a good, updated primer written up on it.

As for a critique on the primer:  it looks like you've got some broken sentences and run-on statements that detract from overall readability.  You might like to use some more text formatting (bold & underline), and also change the layout of your discussion on card choices.  For example: when discussing creatures, you have the creature listing followed by a long string of text discussing both inclusions and exclusions.  That might become more readable if you break it down into line items for each creature, followed afterwards by a breakdown of line items for creatures that aren't included.

Like this:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Creatures
4 Nantuko Shade
3 Withered Wretch
3 Hypnotic Specter

Nantuko Shade: blah blah blah blah past performance, blah blah blah blah good, blah blah blah blah bad, blah blah blah blah why he makes the cut overall, blah blah metagame calls.

[other creatures]

Other Creature Choices
Phyrexian Negator: blah blah blah blah past performance, blah blah blah blah good, blah blah blah blah bad, blah blah blah blah why he doesn't make the cut,, blah blah metagame calls.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One more thing:  I think that when discussing mana sources, the LD lands (Wastelands, Strip Mine, Dust Bowl) shouldn't be included in that list.  Those lands belong under Disruption, IMO, because that's their primary use.  I can't remember the last time I relied on them primarily for mana until the late-game, when I've already got the upper hand and have nothing else to do with them.

Hope this helps!  

I'll sum up:  it's probably not worth it.  In the current optimal Nether Void builds, the 2 spots you have allocated to Ancestral and Time Walk are currently occupied by Skeletal Scrying.  

Ancestral IS superior, but you end up making your mana base more fragile to support it.  Time Walk is often a nice cantrip, but put simply:  there are cards better suited to this kind of deck.  Making the blue splash should really include something more than just these 2 cards - otherwise, as I said before, you're just making a very fragile mana base.

Basically, I don't think this is a good enough idea.  Blue doesn't fit into the style of the deck at this point in time.  As an overall deck, Nether Void is control based, but it's not pre-emptive like blue.

However, you might like to experiment with a primarily blue-based deck with Nether Void built in to fit it.  That might prove far more worthwhile than trying to start with a primarily black-based deck.

Hope this helps  

Land destruction isn't the high-point of the deck.  If they're already land-screwed, they don't need you to help them along.

Never mind that fact that your Hymns and Hyppies have a pretty good chance at getting their lands, too.

However, basing the game around screwing their lands isn't always the key.  This IS Type 1 after all, and there's lots of ways to get mana without land.

If they're not drawing land, and they're not drawing non-land mana sources, they are having a bad game, and it's not your deck's doing.  Hence: killing ANY land during their mana-screw = win-more situation.

You don't run into that position all that often during a single tournament.  Hence, the focus on landkill being a losing strategy.  Nevertheless, it's still a very DISRUPTIVE strategy, which IS what this deck is meant to do.  That's why there's still landkill in the deck at all.

-Grandma, what selective reading you have!

-All the better to ignore you with, my dear.

I gotta agree with Jaco on this.  In my last tournament, I discovered something:  Sinkhole is something your opponent can shrug off more easily than a Pernicious Deed.  (Self Note: I have seen the light on the disruption issue).

A Sinkhole will - at best - kill a land.  Yay.  Your opponent will just lay another land and lose some tempo.  Good for a start, but not enough.

At worst, it will be Misdirected.  In between, it'll be countered, but someone with lots of land or lots of low-cost spells won't break a sweat.  You might get lucky and help along their mana screw, a win-more situation.

A P. Deed will make your opponent sweat.  They will play differently.

At best, you will sweep the board clean, throw down a Void and beat with a creature until they die.  In between, it's sitting at the ready, waiting for you to pop it.  It's a real threat that your opponent MUST answer.

At worst, it will be countered.  At which point you will think to yourself "3 left."

I ran 3 Sinkholes at the last tournament.  I'm going to drop to 2 after noticing the difference my card mix made, replacing the 1 Sinkhole with a Swamp.

I may also drop either a Scrying, or the Sylvan Library for another Swamp.  I'm leaning towards Sylvan for the drop - my metagame doesn't feature much graveyard removal, making the Scrying more effective in my opinion.

Hey, thanks for the great ideas Ray.  I had a feeling that Meditate wouldn't be alright, but I'll still see about testing it before giving it the cut.

I'll also look into Mystic Penitent - I have no idea what it is, but if it's a new idea, I'm interested.

I'll let you all know how it goes.

April 1st.

Imagine they decided to pull an April Fool's joke on everyone.

"April Fools!  You thought we'd leave it alone!

Seriously, we restricted Mishra's Workshop and Bazaar of Baghdad.  Yep, you all just paid horribly inflated prices."

I tried searching for the card "Crawl Space", but couldn't find it anywhere.  I've never heard of it - could you describe it?

Also, I'm not quite sure that I agree with Meddling Mage.  He's useful for stopping say, Psychatog or Smokestack or some other bomb, but my personal feelings are that he's better off as a sideboard card - I think the point of the deck is to stick a Stasis down fast & hard, hence my attempts to get some search going in the deck.  Playing Stasis isn't a defensive thing - you don't wait for the right time.  You just play it.

And pray no-one Meddling Mage's your own Stasis.  Slaver-Control would have altogether too much fun with your Mage.

Needs more Magic Stick.

Seriously though, the problem with this deck is that it's full of dead-draws.  Under a Void, anything you draw under a Standstill would still suck since it'd be several times less usable.  Also, the deck's inability to deal with threats or overpower them is altogether way too much of a liability.  You will start to die, and just continue to die or just slow the inevitable.

You would probably find yourself unable to your own mana curve, either.  Not enough mana acceleration to make anything worth casting after a few Speheres and a Void.  That Mishra's Factory or Faerie Conclave is going to suck if they manage to get ANYTHING down first.  You won't be hoping to overpower or wait them out, no-sir-ee.  You will just be stuck.

About the only thing you can hope for with this deck is a quick double-Sphere followed up by a fast Nether Void.  Your best matchup will pretty much be combo.

Sorry, but I don't see this going anywhere - not unless you're prepared to rip out the blue.  Standstill is a good MATCHUP against Void, but it doesn't mix well in a deck.

OK, I've been tinkering a bit more, and I'm having some trouble.  I've got 4 card slots left to fill, and I'm feeling that Impulse isn't the best thing to fill those slots with.  I'm on the verge of considering a black splash for tutoring or other good black spells, but I'm not sure.

AK/Intuition aren't in the running as I'm not convinced that they're effective enough.  Standstill is out - I'll have to be in a situation to win without casting spells, which is basically when I've got them locked.  Meditate is a more serious contender, but I have yet to analyze in what situations I'd want to cast it.  Casting it under any of the lock components would pretty much be the only way to make it safe.  However, the actual casting cost might be too high for me to pull it off (considering that I'd be vulnerable to my own Tangle Wire or Stasis).

I'm thinking I might need to consider other non-draw spells - something more offensive perhaps.  

Any and all help would be appreciated!

Here's the deck at this point.

4 Stasis
4 Tangle Wire
2 Kismet

4 Chain of Vapor
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
2 Thwart
2 Stifle

2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Gush

2 Nevinnyral's Disk
1 Black Vise
1 Time Vault

1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Black Lotus
3 Forsaken City
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
8 Island

Lion's Eye Diamond was reprinted in 6th Ed., IIRC.

Other than the fact that there's the "1" under the number of posts you've submitted, it's pretty obvious you haven't been here before  

Search these forums for "long.dec" - you'll see you're not the first to have thought of this idea.  However, I do commend you for coming up with this deck on your own - long.dec was a seriously feared powerhouse, capable of winning turn 1.  Because of the deck, 2 cards were restricted: Lion's Eye Diamond and Burning Wish.  (Yes - this kind of deck abused LED so badly that it was restricted.  Go figure.)

To answer your question: yeah, this kind of deck would kick serious ass.  DO search for long.dec and other combo-related forum threads here - you'll get some good ideas.

Enjoy!  

It wasn't that I wasn't pulling usable lands - it's that I wasn't pulling lands, period.  Replacing Fetchlands with other mana sources wouldn't help, because I'm looking for quality over quantity.  Unless someone Stifle's my Fetchland, I would consider an opening hand of 1 Fetch + 1 Swamp just as good as 2 Swamps.  As it was, that wasn't happening - I was pulling 0-2 lands in my opening hands in the main tournament, and then few others as the games went on.  Fetches or no, there just weren't ENOUGH.

I would feel OK removing a Sinkhole because I currently have 9 land destruction effects in the deck - 4 Wasteland, 1 Dust Bowl, 1 Strip Mine, and 3 Sinkholes.  What I discovered during the tournament was that 1 Dust Bowl was usually better than 2 Sinkholes - barring an opposing LD effect on it, it was both extra mana AND helped me offensively.

I have no qualms about removing 1 Sinkhole - the only question is what else to take out if I want to include another Swamp.

Report time again!

I went to a tournament this past Saturday (Ontario Vintage Championships).  In actuality, this was 2 tournaments: the main tournament for the big prize, an unlimited Mox Jet, and the side tournament for people that dropped out of the main tournament.

I dropped out into the side tournament.

Here's what I played with, first of all.

3x Nether Void
4x Pernicious Deed

3x Sinkhole
4x Duress
4x Hymn To Tourach
4x Wasteland
1x Strip Mine
1x Dust Bowl

4x Nantuko Shade
3x Withered Wretch
3x Hypnotic Specter

1x Demonic Tutor
1x Necropotence
1x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Sylvan Library
2x Skeletal Scrying

1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Jet
4x Dark Ritual
2x Polluted Delta
2x Llanowar Wastes
4x Bayou
6x Swamp

Sideboard:
3 Naturalize
3 Choke
3 Chains of Mephistopheles
2 Masticore
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Contagion

The reason I dropped from the main tournament:  mana screw.  This was (stupidly) an untested mana base.  I would have much preferred 7-8 swamps instead of the paltry 6.  After tanking my first 2 matches (one to goblins, no less!), I tore the deck apart and re-sorted it in a form that distributed primarily mana sources evenly throughout the deck, instead of just distributing LANDS.  I figured that would help space out the disruption better - I hardly ever use Wastelands et. al. for mana.  (Of course I shuffled the deck afterwards, but the re-sorting would help me out in terms of fairer randomization, hoping that mana sources would be better spaced out instead of clumps of disruption vs. mana.)

2 more matches in the main tournament didn't help my standings out too well - I swept one scrubby player before taking on Sui-Black, which ended up in a 1-1-1 match (win, loss, draw).  I dropped out in time for the side-tournament after that.

The side tournament was stellar, however.  The even distribution of mana sources held up, and I steamrolled the scrub again, had a fun match against GAT (going into game 3 we agreed to just ID and save the records for the top 8), and then had a surprise rout against Rector-Trix.  Turns out that Nether Void will give Rector-Trix fits if you go with old Void tech:  Drop threat, then Void.  I rolled over my opponent 2-0 in quick succession - my deck was in top form, and his deck was... well, too slow, and couldn't search in time.  I didn't even bother sideboarding.

Top 8: Vs. GAT (same player).  I took this matchup in 2 games - for my opponent's sake, my Withered Wretches were key, as well as some quick discard and Choke (oh, Choke!  Sideboard MVP, without a doubt).  In the last game, a Hypnotic Specter did the dirty work after a good bit of threat-removal and some discard.  Amazingly, none of his card-draw came up.

Top 4: Vs. Rector-Trix (same player).  This was such a bad buzz.  We had a long drawn-out battle that shouldn't have been - First game, I kept a bad hand with 1 land and a Ritual.  After watching him bust out a Yawgmoth's Bargain thanks to Rector & Therapy, I threw out a Nether Void and promptly proceeded to draw only 1 other land in the match.  The Void gave him fits for a long time before he finally managed to pull the resources together to Donate two Illusions to me, and I scooped.  Second game started out better - I smartly took a mulligan to 6, then played a solid match consisting of severe land-hate.  He played out some artifact mana (Moxes, Sol Ring, and a Mana Vault), to which I tossed a Pernicious Deed and popped for 0, bringing him down to a Sol Ring, 1 land, and a tapped Mana Vault.  My Dust Bowl kept his land at bay for a long time, helping me keep his Vault tapped and consistently dealing 1 damage for several turns.  I finally popped out a Nantuko Shade and dealt the final blow.

Game 3 was a heartbreaker - I had board position with 2 creatures (Shade & Wretch), and had it set up, when he managed to pull out a Rector, tossed it with a Therapy, and brought out... Form Of The Dragon.  Yep.  I held out a few turns before throwing in the towel.

So in the end I placed 3rd in the side tournament.  My opponent came away with 2nd place in the end, winning a Masticore.  I won: 3 Worldgorger Dragons.  I'll see about doing something with them, probably trading them.

My thoughts on my deck: More Land!  Seriously, I didn't do a good job judging my distributions, and I think I'm going to toss 1 Sinkhole for a land, as well as something else - maybe a Wasteland, maybe a Scrying.  I desperately need to up the Swamp count.  I'm leaning towards tossing a Scrying, since land-hate seems to be so key in my metagame.  I don't see many mono-coloured decks around here, so I figure that would probably be the better option.

I'm also very happy with the 4th Deed - they're really king, and I'm glad to have drawn more of them.

Magi, I don't think that last bit is such a great idea.  Landstill relies quite heavily on card advantage - your opponent is more than likely going to appreciate getting 3 cards in return for 3 damage.  Landstill needs the card advantage in a bad way to outweigh current or future threats.

Breaking your own Standstill offsets the ratio of threats to your ability to deal with them.  Would you rather get 1 more counter and 2 cards vs. their one spell (which you could then answer with that counter), or make them take 3 damage in return for no return on investment and their getting more spells to play?

Of course, this whole discussion is really "just saying" - you just wouldn't run Black Vise in this deck in the first place.

@Fëanor: Agreed.  I don't see any space in Stasis (at least my Stasis deck) for this to be a key.  Black Vise is definitely a card requiring an answer.  Time Vault is a bit of a "win-more" card, but can be made VERY effective under a Tangle Wire or Stasis.

Still Wolven, I (and I'm sure many others) appreciate you weighing in with this tidbit - I probably never would have thought of it.  Thanks!

Question:  Is Dust Bowl really that wicked?  You have to sacrifice one of your own lands just for them, and that's not something I feel comfortable doing.

I'd just love for someone to explain the logic behind this, as I feel far more protective of my own resources than Dust Bowl permits.

In the sideboard vs. Landstill yeah, I'd side it in.  But I'm not convinced that it's maindeck material.  And besides - what do you cut for it?  I'm already running 9 late hate cards (Strip, Waste, and Sink) - do you add it in regardless and add to the land hate, or do you replace a Sinkhole or 2 with it?

Thanks!

I think bluffing would work the best when you actually have more than one play option.  For example, there's no point in Smennen trying to do any bluffing in a combo deck since he's either going to go off or he's not.  The number of win conditions in Long & NotLong are few - you're just looking to combo until you win.  It's not like you're going to stall yourself from going off if you can do it, and you're not going to combo off and then stop and do nothing, or else you lose your tempo.

In control-based decks, it's not terribly likely that you're going to do a lot of bluffing, although you can do a fair amount - the 2 island bluff, the smirking look or look of disappointment after a topdeck, etc.  You can also smirk about a counter in your hand, dare a person to play something, and then do nothing when the cast it, as if they've successfully called your bluff, while surprising their next spell with an actual counter.  That doesn't always work out mathematically though - you still have to find an answer to the first threat, and without 2 answers you're left waiting for a topdeck of one type or another.

I feel that aggro players can probably take the best advantage of bluffs and tells.  In aggro, you're playing with more working spells and not counters, so it'd help if you could read the control player's tells and bluff out your own spells on dares - dare them to counter a small threat, then hold on to other more powerful threats while they squirm.  Or bait a counter with a small threat, then play the larger threat.

In the end though, I don't take much stock in bluffs and tells - you're going to play the best way you can.  There's a lot to be lost in tempo if you're holding back, and sometimes NOT playing a bomb or counter in response to something is the worst thing you can do.  Do you really dare not counter their spell if there's nothing else you can do about it?

I feel that bluffing isn't in the best interest of Magic players - in the end, it comes down to the math (his 2 threats, and your 1 answer), probability, luck, and doing what you have to do to survive.

Dear twn_domn:

If you're afraid of getting a spell countered, just never play against anyone playing blue ever.

However, if you're one of those CRAZY people that play in these things called "Tournaments", the chances that something you cast will be countered is really quite high.  We happen to be some of those crazy people that play at these "Tournaments", and as such we have to deal with the possibility that someone might react to our spells.  It's a strange way to play - that is, versus people that are also trying to win - but it's a thing that we've decided we're willing to deal with.

Now obviously, if a combo player goes off on the 2nd turn and we have no way to use a Pernicious Deed, and they win as a result, well... that's (1) the luck of the draw and (2) our tough luck.  It's called losing.  It happens.  We deal with that by sideboarding, or by casting Duress or Hymn To Tourach in the first place when we have a chance.  If you lose before you can play anything, it's not the deck's fault, and it's not your fault entirely, except for the fact that you're not playing something as fast as combo.

And... wait a MINUTE! - We're not PLAYING a combo deck!  In fact, we're not playing a deck that's that fast at all.  What we're DOING on this thread is trying to make this the best damn deck we can because we like it and think this has a shot.

As for people playing Keeper: they have these "stables" (staples, I assume you mean) called Mana Drain and Force Of Will, agreed.  We counter the counterspell affect by having more cards in our deck than Pernicious Deed that will hurt them.  The point is that a control player would be quite willing to let a random disruption sorcery go through, but the really bad business spells (like Nether Void, Pernicious Deed) are the ones most likely to be countered.  Opportunity knocks like this:  (1) I play a Deed, they counter it, then I play some seemingly less serious spells and disrupt their resources or hand, (2) I play a bunch of less serious spells, they foolishly counter them, then I play a Deed.  The point is that if you're playing a control player, your Pernicious Deed is one of those really serious spells that they're waiting for so they can counter it, and you can bait them with it.

Hope you've enjoyed this story - can you guess the moral, you little *expletive deleted*?

After looking at some of the suggestions in this thread, I decided to take another stab at it.  I took another look at using green for Root Maze, but ultimately decided against it - Root Maze causes your OWN lands to come into play tapped, and I don't like the idea of relying on Forsaken City as my mana source for paying Stasis upkeep.

So why did I consider green?  For Xantid Swarm, of course.  This is a deck that relies on making sure your opponent can't do anything, and Xantid Swarm makes darn sure that your opponent DOESN'T do anything - at least, not on your turn.  That made their inclusion pretty much mandatory for me.

I also don't like the use of Daze in this particular build.  While Daze makes sense in the fact that you get to recur your islands, this deck has MORE than enough ways to recur land (Storm Cauldron, Thwart, and Forsaken City).  Plus, Daze still gives your opponent the "Pay 1" option.  I prefer to stick with Mana Drains for the extra tempo boost in the early game to lay out a Storm Cauldron or Tangle Wire.

To accomodate green, I also had to fool around with the mana base quite a bit.  I decided to put a full set of Flooded Strands in the deck to allow me access to green in a pinch.  In the meantime, I tried to keep my Island count up as high as possible - 7 Islands.  That's probably going to be an issue of contention for a lot of people, but so be it.

Other notes:
- I removed the 2 Morphlings, based on the fact that they're quite a resource hog during a Stasis lock, as well as very costly in the first place.  Also gone are the Rishadan Ports, another resource hog in the early game, when you can't afford it.  
- Chain of Vapor is upped to a 3 count for versatility, since it's not only useful to bounce back a Stasis, but also to bounce back an untapped threat DURING Stasis, or to set up for a Stasis.  
- Tangle Wire is dropped to a 3 count for no other reason than to make more room for more disruption.  
- Enlightened Tutor is out for the fact that it can become a dead card and a giveaway that you're setting up for a lock.  
- Tolarian Academy is also out, due to the fact that there's not enough permanent artifacts in the deck to justify it, and can also end up a dead card for the same reason.

On the usage of Time Vault:  You might think of this as a "win more" card, but it's not so.  This can be quite useful, actually.  If you can't get the solid lock right away, you can still get a small lock with a temporary Stasis, then skip a turn and let your opponent try to duke it out for another turn.  You save yourself an upkeep, then you can let an upkeep go without wasting a Chain of Vapor, and without your opponent getting the first untap.

Once you get the solid lock, you can of course skip all your turns, but that's only if you want to "win more".

// Lock
3 Stasis
3 Kismet
2 Storm Cauldron

// Offense
3 Tangle Wire
3 Xantid Swarm
1 The Tabernacle At Pendrell Vale

// Disruption
4 Force Of Will
4 Mana Drain
2 Thwart
3 Chain of Vapor

// Kill
1 Black Vise
1 Time Vault

// Search
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Gush
4 Impulse

// Mana & Resources
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
3 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
2 Forsaken City
7 Island

That's still quite a tenuous hold.  You'd have to load your deck up with counters, waiting for someone to take out the Solitary Confinement.

This is still a rather interesting concept.

I used to love Stasis too.  I played TurboStasis after Alliances, when [card]Storm Cauldron[/card] came out.  That deck was UNBELIEVABLY sub-optimal, but it had 3 win conditions - [card]Underworld Dreams[/card] (!), [card]Black Vise[/card], and decking the opponent.  I wouldn't suggest using Underworld Dreams, as you have to add the 3rd colour and play with Dark Ritual, which *can* be useful due to the mana costs of Storm Cauldron and Kismet.

Using experience as my guide, here's my suggested list off the top of my head:

3 [card]Stasis[/card]
3 [card]Kismet[/card]
2 [card]Storm Cauldron[/card]

4 [card]Force Of Will[/card]
4 [card]Mana Drain[/card]
2 [card]Thwart[/card]
4 [card]Impulse[/card]
4 [card]Tangle Wire[/card]

2 [card]Morphling[/card]
1 [card]Black Vise[/card]

1 [card]Time Vault[/card]
1 [card]Ancestral Recall[/card]
1 [card]Enlightened Tutor[/card]
1 [card]Gush[/card]
1 [card]The Tabernacle At Pendrell Vale[/card]
2 [card]Rishadan Port[/card]

1 [card]Mox Pearl[/card]
1 [card]Mox Sapphire[/card]
1 [card]Black Lotus[/card]
1 [card]Sol Ring[/card]
1 [card]Tolarian Academy[/card]
4 [card]Tundra[/card]
2 [card]Flooded Woodland[/card]
13 [card]Island[/card]

(Please excuse me - I have no experience playing Stax, nor any playtesting knowledge to draw from.)

Since there's been so much talk about using Meditate, I thought I'd weigh in with another win condition for this deck (which I've been harping on in my head for a while):

[card]Time Vault[/card] and [card]Lodestone Myr[/card].

(1) Lodestone Myr is a nice tank
(2) Time Vault lets you cement the effect of a Smokestack
(3) The two together give you a stupidly large trampler.

I've seen builds of Stax before that used Time Vault, so its inclusion into this deck wouldn't be unreasonable.  Finding a spot for the Myrs might be a bit tougher though.

Am I way out with wishful thinking?

Here's a question for everyone:

Maindeck Chains of Mephistopheles?

I got the idea looking at [Deck]The Revenge of Mephistopheles (Eastman Control).  We should already be using Chains in our sideboards, but this guy put it maindeck because of his realization of what a bomb it is against most high-level tournament caliber decks out there.  And he's not even playing a large amount of black cards - it's a KEEPER deck!

May I refer everyone to the [Article] January-February Vintage Gauntlet.  Stare at these decks for a while.

There's only 1 deck listed in this article that wouldn't dislike Chains, and that's Mono Black Mask.  In EVERY OTHER DECK listed, you can count on 2 hands the number of draw-accelerators there are.  This is a field ripe for picking - [card]Bazaar of Baghdad[/card], [card]Standstill[/card], [card]Ancestral Recall[/card], [card]Brainstorm[/card], [card]Curiosity[/card], [card]Careful Study[/card], [card]Ophidian[/card], [card]Gush[/card], [card]Frantic Search[/card], [card]Minds Eye[/card], [card]Deep Analysis[/card], [card]Thirst For Knowledge[/card], and many, many others.

My first pick would be (1) Replace 2 Sinkholes, or (2) Replace 2 Hymn To Tourachs.  Two copies of Chains could be enough to give you a bigger edge in a WIDE variety of tournament-caliber decks.

Secondly, how drastically do you think this would reduce the fighting chances of the deck in non-draw matchups?  Mono-black Mask, Goblins/Food Chain, Sui-Black et. al. wouldn't mind you laying a Chains.  Hence, what goes out of the deck to make this a good fit in THOSE matchups?

(Re my earlier question regarding [card]Rishadan Port[/card]: I think I'm over it now.  I don't believe it's a real sideboard card considering its only fantastic use is against Landstill.)

[card]Replenish[/card] is a "neat" card, but I think its best use is based in combo.  I don't think it's viable in T1 due to the fact that by the time you're ready to cast Replenish, your opponent may already be in a better win position.

That, plus I can't imagine exactly what great local enchantments would be good to play in the first place, let alone get them into your graveyard.

You might find it possible to play a large compliment of enchantments along with some effect to destroy all permanents, then cast a Replenish after the effect resolves (having floated the necessary mana beforehand).  The only "destroy all permanents" effect I can think of at the moment is via [card]Worldslayer[/card].  Another possible effect would be via [card]Nevinyrrals Disk[/card], although less effective since you leave your opponent land to recover with.

Smennen: Regarding [card]Time Vault[/card] - [card]Lodestone Myr[/card]?  I've been thinking of a deck to build using these cards, although my lone design skills are... well, less developed.

twn_domn:  You're quite right, it's me.  As I'm sure everyone in the forum could tell from reading my posting.  I have great confidence in the deck as I've won tournaments with it before.  My point was to showcase some BAD playing, and hope for some constructive criticism on some points I brought up, as well as share some insights that I got from real play.  As they say:  In theory, theory is the same as practice, but not in practice.

I'd love it if you would post some responses on the ideas I brought up, especially featuring my games vs. Landstill.  Also, maybe you could give me some sideboarding insights into specific matches and gameplay strategies that I haven't already discovered, changing up the way I play depending on the matchup.

Thanks for the advice concerning Cabal Therapy.  I may give it a whirl - I've been ignoring it for a while, based on the fact that it costs a creature for Flashback.

As for Edicts:  I'll be picking myself up a few of them, since I witnessed several 'Naught variants in the tournament this weekend, and was thoroughly impressed by them.

In your conclusion, are you referring to Null Rod?  Null Rod certainly is a big player these days for good reason.

Welp, I was at a tournament this weekend playing B/G Void, and it went pretty badly.  I figured I'd post this here considering its relevance to the topic - I came away with some interesting insights, which is what I'll be writing about instead of giving you all play-by-plays.

Round 1: Vs. Shock Wave, playing Landstill

What I discovered from playing vs. Landstill:
(1) Your Pernicious Deeds, while good cards, aren't quite as useful.  Landstill is permanent-light, and the only chance you'll have to set off a Deed is when they animate a land.  Your other Deeds will be countered, Stifle'd, or otherwise destroyed.  The only other permanents worth Deed'ing are Standstill (fat chance), or Nevinnyral's Disk (again, fat chance).
(2) Nether Void is the first thing you rip out of the deck in game 2.  I didn't rip out Nether Void, and hence found myself with a dead card when I drew it.  Landstill can operate quite nicely under a Nether Void.
(3) I found myself wishing for a Dust Bowl (laugh).  Even having just the one would have been a godsend - control players know not to counter the Tutor - they never hesitate in saying "it's good".  I would have SURELY tutored for a Dust Bowl, and started eating his lands at my own expense.  It would have turned the tide of the games.  I don't think I'd take out any Wastelands or a Strip Mine for it - the more landkill you have for this matchup, the better.

Sideboard strategy:  Rip out Nether Void, Pernicious Deed.  Side in spells, spells, spells - preferably Chains of Meph., Contagion or Diabolic Edict (good vs. manlands), Naturalize.

One more thing I'd like to point out:  Rishadan's Port.  Sure, it's no Wasteland, and it requires more investment on your part, but in this particular matchup it looks like a good idea.  Rishadan's Port was in an old version of Void (as posted on the late Beyond Dominia), and it ruled in the metagame at that time - it might be time to re-consider this card, since Landstill is (at least in my area) becoming a more relevant threat in the metagame.  It's less prone as a Stifle target, it can't be countered, it ties up their lone offense, escapes N. Disk, and acts as Wasteland fodder, freeing the way for your other, better lands.  Another card that I saw being played against this deck that I thought would be nice was Tsabo's Web, but it doesn't have the same synergy - it's counterable and easily destroyed by Disk, plus it doesn't draw Wastelands.  It falls into the category of cards that Landstill can easily take care of.  
(What do the rest of you think about this point?)

Round 2: Vs. some guy named Andrew, playing Suicide Black

(1) Get the Pernicious Deed out quickly.
(2) Get the Nether Void out second, but also quickly.
(3) Don't be hasty in this matchup!  For the love of God don't do anything stupid!  Yes, you will end up near the lower-end of the life scale early, but if you play solidly and not hastily, you have a shot.  Just get the Deed out first.  I made that mistake, and instead of waiting patiently for the next turn, I instead decided I needed to Demonic Consult for my Mox Jet (!) right then & there, in order to cast Deed and pop it.  I still had another turn before he'd run me over, and I was holding a swamp.

Of course, the Jet was in the first 6 cards.

That's not to say that you should NEVER Consult for restricted cards - what I want to get across is that I really didn't need to.  I just felt rushed.

(Which is another thing: don't let some fast-playing player rush you.  Make them ansty, make them fidget - even if you have nothing to do, sit there and make like you're thinking hard.  They hate that.)

Sideboard strategy:  this is really tough.  I would suggest taking out Wasteland, since they'll be running nothing but swamps.  You might like to replace them with Diabolic Edict - Contagion is a nice card, but it's probably not as useful as Edict in this particular matchup.


Round 3: I get the bye.

Round 4: Vs. some guy playing Stompy

Deed ruins these folks.  Deed them and run.  I stole that matchup 2-0.

Sideboard strategy:  you really don't have to do anything.  Deed is key.  Stompy runs land-light, so the moment you Deed and drop a Void, it's pretty much game-over for them.


Hopefully, I'll do better at my next tournament.  I'm going to be poring over my sideboard this time, thinking long & hard about what I'm going to be up against.  My next tournament is going to be a big one, so the number of people playing real tournament quality decks should be relatively high.  Some maindeck revision is probably also in order, so I'll be watching this thread with high interest.  I'll also keep thinking about Rishadan's Port in the sideboard - it might be the deciding factor against Landstill and mono-coloured decks.  Let me know what you think about it's re-inclusion.

1) Howling Mine - more cards is usually good.  Can you find a reason why your opponent might not want cards?  Well...

2) Underworld Dreams - probably my absolute favorite card.  When I used to play it, I didn't have any usable Draw-7 cards, so I instead decided to use Howling Mine.  Also, Underworld Dreams was restricted at the time.  I never won much with it  

3) Time Vault - for years this card a target for abuse, from cards like Twiddle up to Voltaic Key.  It's been errata'd to hell and back.  I think it deserves more errata  

4) Chains of Mephistopheles - probably doesn't see a lot of play because people groan when they see it and know what it is; it's not like it's a hard card to use in practice.

5) Stasis - I played with Stasis in the Ice Age block, when TurboStasis was a contender.  Stasis is still really quite good, but god-damn if it isn't hard to lock a person these days.  Stasis was always a slow-burner... maybe with Long.dec gone it can see some more T1 play?

BTW, how did you like using Hyppies instead of Blurred Mongoose?  I know you were having concerns about that, but I'd like to hear how you felt he performed in your meta as opposed to B.M.

As for the Sylvan... tough call.  I don't know how I'd go about filling that in, although I'm certain you'd appreciate it.

I think a quick look at the restricted list will prove to you that so far, we don't need such a rule.

Most of the cards on that list are very, very good.  However, a good number of these cards are only degenerate if they can be exploited en masse.  It's not that such cards aren't good on their own, but they don't make or break a deck all on their lonesome.  Fastbond will probably never be that one key building block in a deck with anything other than combo in mind, and that certainly won't be a key win condition.  Same goes for Earthcraft.  Remember Academy decks and Combo Winter?  Where'd they go?

So far then, restrictions really work.  They won't be printing another Tolarian Academy anytime soon, or those key "Free" spells.  They might make cards *like* them, but they won't function the same, they won't keep the same theme.

Secondly, I don't believe that restricted cards alone will win you a game.  Yes, they can make or break the THEME of your deck, but taking the lot of them and making up a deck will not win.  The best designed decks can win because they can be played a certain way, and not just drop bombs on people.

I feel your concerns are more along the lines of "One day they'll have printed enough Moxes and free mana spells that restricting them all will still give you 20+ mana sources, and you won't need land", or "One day you'll be able to have half your deck as tutors".  That may be, but the key is that you still have to play against other people - yeah, THOSE other people, the ones that make up your metagame.  Until those people stop adapting their decks to suit new threats, using a boatload of restricted cards won't matter a lick.  The game itself provides all the means to thwart it's own tricks, and players will find them and use them.

Good decks are built on redundance and having the best threats or strategies.  Restricted cards add to those strategies, but being restricted makes them additions, not strategies in themselves.  Also, loading up on similar restricted cards will only saturate your deck, and remove any redundance that you're seeking.  Sometimes, it doesn't pay to play with EVERY Mox.  Ancestral Recall, Yawgmoth's Will, Balance, Necropotence... none of these will win you a game by themselves.  They can only help you win in your theme.