Has it been a problem if you draw your creatures without a way to get them into the GY? Also your mana base looks a little basic heavy. I'd cut a few to add Ravnica shocks and a Reflecting Pool. Even with a playgroup that's actively hating on non-Basics I can't imagine you need that many. How good has Rector been?

I had a bad experience with Kard Kastle awhile ago. I will see if I can dig up some info for you.

EDIT: I heard from a very reliable source that he is bankrupt. So I don't know how, or if, you are going to get your cash from him.

Yes. There was no room for the little rat bastards to change into stinky monkeys, and all the other creatures from the Cenozoic Era. Dinosaurs were the dominant life form on this planet for about 150 millions years. That's a real long time. There was just no room for mammals in the environment. Well at least nothing bigger than a bread box.

Oh, and Velociraptors. Obviously.

I think that Hooligan is far better as a two drop than Tinkerer because 2 power is really important as well as his artifact killing ability is far more efficient. You really aren't looking to pwn someones artifacts for the entire game. All you really want is tempo and Tin-Street gives you bunches. You don't need to kill every artifact land your opponent plays, just their Jitte or SoFI. You lose tempo with Tinkerer, tapping and paying mana to kill an artifact is soo freakin' slow. Besides this deck has enough Squires already; lets fill it out with a few more Grizzly Bears.

I'm not really sold on Krosan Grip at the moment. 3 mana is a lot and many times the Split Second ability won't matter at all.

The more I think about it, the better Goblin Legionnaire gets. What Machinus is saying about the hole in the 2CC is very true, and something that has plagued me. Land go on turn 2 sucks. When you don't get really good openings (Lackey, Vial) you really want to curve out, which the deck has a problem doing with 4 good two drops. I dealt with it by adding more two drops, namely Sparksmith and Tin-Street. which brings me back to Legionnaire. Playing a kickered Hooligan has never been a problem for me with 12 Green sources. Also, how many decks, other than Goblins itself, are running LD these days? Suicide variants? You beat them handily anyways. Legionnaire might make a White splash worth it. It's a super solid creature, and adds just that more reach to the deck, which it really likes. What arguements are there for against his inclusion?

Congratulations Machinus on your win!

I think Lotus and Ancestral are obvious inclusions, but I think if you can find a way to get Wheel of Fate off a Desire... thats pretty insane. Like good times party party. I've never been a big fan of Gifts, so I would probably cut some of those for the new cards. I think I would be more helpful if you could post your build, or at least a preliminary one to get started.

Congrats on the finish! Apparently the Serenity and Rod spots were a damn good call. Nice.

Moat is tame compared to some of the cards they have printed. Jitte, for example. Half of Onslaught block. X Spells... I'm sure there are other things  I'm forgetting.

I can't believe he died... I watched Croc Hunter as a kid all the time and them BLAMO! He's gone! I thought it was a hoax at first, but sadly I was mistaken. I wish I could have met the man; he had such enthusiasm for life and animals... it is sad to see him go. I shed some tears, actually.

I'll miss you Steve.

Have they also not said the card was insanely powerful? From my point of view they made it seem like they did not want the card back.

When Wizards of the Coast announced they were reprinting Incinerate I almost died and simultaneously got an erection. What the hell were they on? Why is Wizards printing so many good burn spells? Did they not say they would not print it because it was too strong? What's next? Chain Lightning?

Then that really got me thinkin'. What old or just plain powerful cards could they reprint. The best one I could think of is...

wait for it...

MOAT

Yes that's right, Moat. I could actually see them repirnting Moat. At 4 mana the soonest it could come down with any regularity is turn 4. By that time it is highly likely you could be in burn range, your opponent could Remand/Leak it, have some other answer, have a unicorn in play, etc. The double White could be problematic, although not in the current Standard. It would have very little impact on any older formats, and Limited too because it was a rare.

What do you think? Am I off my rocker? What else could they repint that was historically powerful but comparatively tame in a modern Magic enviroment?

Beef or chicken?

I have seen this deck beat Ichorid and have done so myself. Terravore gets freaking huge really fast when they are Dredging the crap outta there deck. The only thing you really need to watch out for is a huge flying Tog. Otherwise Assault does it's thing and kills everything they play. In fact Assault makes every aggro match incredibly easy when resolved early on. Putrefy, Cabal Therapy and Genesis shine against Chant. Having maindeck artifact destruction makes the matchup far easier and not just scooping to the decks namesake cards.

AggroLoam is better than Mad Tog because it can kill outside of the combat phase, has a better draw engine, as well as being more versatile.

It's a better Dredge deck than CAL because it is more streamlined  and the aggro element provies a good defense as well as a formidable offense, and a far less ugly mana base. This deck is also faster than CAL.

1. What do you predict the turnout to be? 133 1 point
2. How many Force of Wills do you expect to see in the Top 8? 12 2 points
3. How many Swords to Plowshares in the Top 8? 4 1 point
4. How many Wastelands in the Top 8? 8 0 points
5. How many Standard-legal cards in the Top 8? 6 0 points
6. In the top 8, what will be the most popular:
a. Blue card: Brainstorm 2 points
b. White card: Swords to Plowshares 2 points
c. Green card: Werebear 2 points
d. Red card: Goblin Lackey 2 points
e. Black card: Duress 0 points
f. Gold card: Meddling Mage 0 points
g. artifact: Pithing Needle 0 points
h. non-land card (most popular of 6a-g): Brainstorm 3 points
7. What's the most common basic land type in the Top 8? Island 0 points
8. What's the most common dual land in the Top 8? Taiga 0 points
9. Goblins in the T8? (yes or no) Yes 1 point
10. Threshold (UWG) in the T8? (yes or no) Yes 0 points
11. Threshold (other) in the T8? (yes or no) No 0 points
12. Survival.dec in the T8? (yes or no) No 1 point
13. High Tide in the T8? (yes or no) Yes 0 points
14. BW Deadguy Ale (Disruption) in the T8? (yes or no) No 1 point
15. What's going to be the highest placing combination deck? High Tide 0 points

BONUS
14. DAL______________ [deck] will take first place. 0 points
15. The winner will be: ____Jacob Orlove__________. (Specific player name) 0 points

Total: 18 points

I needed an reason to play my Textless Putrefies. And I found it.

AggroLoam

Creatures-16
3 Birds of Paradise
4 Werebear
4 Terravore
4 Wild Mongrel
1 Genesis

Spells-19
3 Life from the Loam
4 Burning Wish
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughts of Ruin
3 Putrefy
3 Seismic Assault

Mana-25
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Stomping Ground
4 Tranquil Thicket
4 Forgotten Cave
1 Blood Crypt
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Mountain
I Forest
1 Swamp

Sideboard-15
1 Devastating Dreams
1 Life from the Loam
1 Nostalgic Dreams
1 Thoughts of Ruin
1 Decompose
1 Haunting Echoes
1 Hull Breach
1 Shattering Spree
3 Naturalize
2 Pithing Needle
2 Duress

The deck has a pretty good game vs most everything. Black adds a lot power against a matchup like Scepter Chant which might be problematic normally. There are some things in the board I'm not sure of such as the numbers of Naturalize, Duress, and Needle. The matchup that seems troublesome is Ichorid. Unanswered Togs are game as well as discard being dead. Need to test the matchup more. Although I have not tested it yet, Heartbeat looks like the hardest matchup. I'm sure it hinges on forcing through a Thoughts of Ruin.

On the Dreams/Thoughts debate I would rather play MD Thoughts because it does not kill my creatures. Discarding your hand can also be painful sometimes when you don't want to get rid of your creatures, Assault and what not. DD is still good as a Wishable SuperClasm though.

The reason this deck is soo good is because it plays Armageddon. It is so devastating to nuke everyone's lands. Not just that but you have an incredibly easy way to recover form it as well as an uncounerable draw engine to find the thing in the first place. And you can Burning Wish for it too. To put it simply this is ErhnaGeddon06 aka Aramageddon.dec

Fear Factory "Cars"
Just an awesome song.

Children of Bodom "The Trooper"
CoB is ridiculous. Covering Iron Maiden songs is tech.

OMG I win. W00t!

Total Number of Players (within 50; 1pt, within 10; 3 pts, exact; 5 pts) 146

Top 8 - most played cards in each colour (1 pt each, bonus 2 pts for 7+ correct):
White Swords to Plowshares 1pt
Blue Brainstorm 1pt
Red Goblin Lackey 1pt
Green Werebear
Black Duress 1pt
Artifact Tormod's Crypt
Land Wooded Foothills
Gold Meddling Mage

Most played card in t8 (2 pts) Goblin Lackey

Most common colour in t8 (2 pts) Red 2pt

Most common deck in t8 (2 pts) Goblins 2pt

Winning deck (2 pts) Goblins

Winning deck's colour combination (+1 pt for each correct colour named, -1pt for each incorrect colour named, min. 0 pts, max. 2 pts)
Red

Total points: 8

1. What do you predict the turnout to be? 800
2. How many Force of Wills do you expect to see in the Top 8? 12 1 point
3. How many Wastelands in the Top 8? 12 2 points
4. In the top 8, what will be the most popular:
a. Blue card: Force of Will 2 points
b. White card: Swords to Plowshares 2 points
c. Green card: Life from the Loam
d. Red card: Goblin Lackey
e. Black card: Duress
f. Gold card: Mystic Enforcer
g. artifact: Pithing Needle 2 points
h. non-land card (most popular of 4a-g): Duress
5. What's going to be the highest placing combination deck? Iggy Pop
6. What's the most common basic land type in the Top 8? Mountain
7. What's the most common dual land in the Top 8? Tropical Island 2 points
8. Goblins in the T8? (yes or no) Yes 1 point
9. Flame Vault in the T8? (yes or no) Yes
10. Threshold (UWG) in the T8? (yes or no) Yes 1 point
11. Threshold (URG) in the T8? (yes or no) Yes 1 point
12. Survival.dec in the T8? (yes or no) No
13. High Tide in the T8? (yes or no) No 1 point
14. Landstill in the T8? (yes or no) No
15. BW Deadguy Ale (Disruption) in the T8? (yes or no) Yes

BONUS
16. __Goblins_____ [deck] will take first place.
17. Who will win: Pro or Not? 1 point
18. The winner will be from ___France_________. (Specific country)
19. The winner will be: ___Olivier Ruel________. (Specific player name)

Total: 16 points

NO. I dont think that really counts as a side project because Anders has been with In Flames ever since he left DT.

On a side note, I am rather suprised no one has mention General Patton vs. The X-ecutioners. That is some good shit right there.

I have not been a large fan of Crucible because it doesnt have a lot of offensive potential, you have to run suboptimal cards, a Strip Mine or an artifact land to start welding. Once you do then the deck starts looking  a lot like Goth Slaver.

The problem with adding additonal artifacts is that I havent found any to make the deck better. You can add Tangle wires and Smokestacks, but then the deck starts to act more like a bad Stax deck. The reason I play the deck is because Mindslaver acts like ALL the Stax components wrapped into one. So that eliminates most lock parts. Another good suggestion was adding Jesters Cap. Which seems decent. And that's all I got.

P.S Frantic still sucks.

There are many reasons why I dislike Frantic Search.

It does not produce any card advantage, it only filters. This deck does not need anything like that. The fact that it is free is only a slight plus, it should not be included as a mana producer, add another Gilded Lotus if that is what you are looking for. The deck also doesn't need any more discard outlets. 4 TFK, 3 GU, 1 FOF is enough. Don't forget the deck also plays Mishra's Workshops for a reason. You don't always need to discard artifacts, you can hardcast them.

Compared to Mystical Tutor, Frantic pales in comparison. Mystical always gets you what you want, and is cheaper by a wide margin.

Current list-

- Mindslaver
- Wheel of Fortune
- Memory Jar

+ Mystical Tutor
+ Sundering Titan
+ Triskelion

With three Gifts you dont need three Slavers. Two will work. Titan and Trike make Gifts better as well allowing for two strong castings instead of one. Mystical fetches Gifts or whatever you need. It is not so hot against control but I see very little of that. Draw- sevens eliminated due to their randomness.

I really don't expect Bloodmoon anywhere, seeing as how most decks have evolved to the point where it is only a minor annoyance. So zero to very little chance of BM or BtB in my meta. It is also a more aggro oriented meta, so more "real" mana sources against Wastes are helpful.

Currently I play Triskelion over the 3rd Slaver. Better against aggro.

In my opinion, 3 Gifts is optimal because you want to draw at least one. the other two are there because they can get Duressed or countered, and the second one pitches to force. Or if you resolve your first one, then you win, and it doesn't really matter what you draw after that because the game, for all intents and purposes, is over.

Frantic Search is a horrible topdeck. See above on Timewalk.

Although I don't live in Portland, just a meager 180 miles south, I have heard that there is a pretty big 1.5 scene there, but nothing of Type 1. I know there are weekly tournaments in Eugene though.

Yep, the 3rd Gifts is FARRRR better than Windfall. Windfall is inconsistent. Not only does it rarely ever draw you 7 cards, it is still governed by chance, you can get crap off it. However, Gifts sets up an infinite Slaver lock, and fills the graveyard for Goblin Welder fun.



In all actuality, they, Draw 7's, are not. Sure they look nice on paper, but they are inconsistent. THIS is the decks largest problem. Sometimes they give you crap. And what's far worse is that they give your opponent more cards to kill your Welders, and generally fuck up your day. The only reason I am even using Wheel and Jar is that they have advantages over other D7s as Wheel is a discard outlet, and Jar lessens the impact of giving your opponent a new hand, and is recurrable. Still, they need to be replaced. It's far better to resolve a Gifts for huge BOMBS than chance it with Twister, Wheel and Co. and get hand of jank.

Your last statement confuses me somewhat. TFK is better if you have the pieces in hand or draw into them. However, A resolved Gifts will set you for an infinite Slaver lock. A resolved Gifts is nuts. Simply nuts. Especially seeing as how you can hardcast what they give you as well.



I have tested with Intuition and it was a pretty good. The most signifigant things that it has over Gifts is that its is 1 colorless cheaper, which is huge, and just as important it can tutor for Goblin Welder, like you said. I might go ahead and replace the remaining 2 D7s with Intuition.

Everytime you cast you have to scream "SMEMNARCH!" Not only does it freak people out, it's just freakin sweet.



Fact or Fiction vs Gifts Ungiven- The uses for these cards seem very subtle, and I am unsure of whether or not to replace the FoF with the 4th Gifts. FoF digs deeper, can get you more than 2 cards, and can also fetch Welders. Gifts sets you up for the win, and gets you what you want. You can also fine tune what you will recieve, instead of blindly digging. So, I am unsure of which is better.

I like the extra card you get from Gifts. I think I might actually run them both though. I am not too sure. From testing though, Gifts and Intuition are both solid choices for the deck, which is better I can not say....yet. Maybe I will proxy up some decks and get busy, like I should.

I do agree with the inclusion of Trike, not so much with Platty and much less with Duplicant. More testing must be done!!

Thanks for all the comments!

If I had a better metagame (or just a meta in general) I might play it maindeck, seems pretty good against Tog. However there is some free board space so it might take up some space there. It also looks like a pretty good anti-combo card, but that is already a pretty good match for me anyways, probably why I have never considered it.



As a matter of fact, I have tested Titan before and he was the bombzor with Welders, and for some reason I have felt more comfortable with 3 Slavers, However, with Gifts, three Mindslavers is excessive and makes Tinker less powerful. So the 3rd Slaver spot might be Trike, Plats or Titan.

Memory Jar has been pretty good. I have had very little problems with throwing away cards I wanted to hardcast, mostly blue cards. But everything else is expendable, extra lands and expensive artifacts can be chucked with not much of a second thought. Anything else can be Brainstormed to the top of my library. When I do use it, though, it rocks. Every now and then Jar does force you to toos out some good stuff, sometimes fate throws you junk.

As for why this is better than 7/10, if I had a decklist I would be able to tell you, I haven't seen one in awhile. If you could pm me one or point me to a link, that would be greatly helpful.

The best answer I can think of, is this is far more focused on getting a Slaver activated, and then, if necessary, infinite Slaver lock with Pentavus.

I have been trying to come up with a good name for the deck, would something like Workshop Gifts work, or is that to vague? Perhaps an acronym would be better, like WG or WSG, what do you think?

“Buddy, you ain’t leadin` anything but Jack and shit, and Jack just left town.”
-Ash

The best way to start out any new thread is one involving quotes, especially if they are completely irrelevant. 

It has been awhile since I have posted anything, but I have not been idle. In fact, I have been feverishly working on a new twist to an old deck. Here is my list with oddities in bold.

Workshop Slavery

Mana Sources-27
4 Volcanic Island   
4 Shivan Reef
4 Mishra’s Workshop
2 Ancient Tomb
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
3 Gilded Lotus

Draw/Tutors-16
4 Brainstorm
4 Thirst for Knowledge   
3 Gifts Ungiven   
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Tinker
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Memory Jar

PHEAR OF GOD-9
4 Goblin Welder
3 Mindslaver
1 Pentavus
1 Memnarch

Disruption-8
4 Force of Will
4 Chalice of the Void

Sideboard-15
4 Trinisphere
3 Engineered Explosives
2 Triskellion
1 Platinum Angel
1 Duplicant
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Rack and Ruin

Card Explanations:

Ancient Tomb-- The deck now has a higher density of colored spells, thus Tomb has been a perfect fit. It also stabalizes the manabase moreso than other options. The two damage has rarely been a problem for me.

Gifts Ungiven- I know Team CAB, as well as others, have used this card to great success. However, I came upon this independently, but hey, I give you all props anyways. In a nutshell Gifts Ungiven speeds up the deck like crazy, being able to get both Mindslaver and Pentavus at instant speed is hot. Not only that, it can also solidfy your manabase by getting lands, or just get you insanely broken stuff like Ancestral, and Wheel, or just more disruption.

Engineered Explosives- With the rise of Oath, and other decks with troublesome permanents, I have looked for a way to rid myself of them. E.E. fit the bill perfectly, die, die, die Ground Seal, Oath of Druids, and any other number of things from Auriok Salvagers to Back to Basics. Better yet, when set at 2 or 3 it kills none of my permanents.

Exclusions:

Time Walk- This card has performed poorly for me. There are two major problems with this card. First off, it interferes with Chalice of the Void, because the majority of times it is set at two to shut off Mana Drain and other reactive cards. Time Walk is an underpowered card in general. It allows for an additional untap and an extra card. Whoopee. Compared to everything else in the deck, it is weak in comparison.

Timetwister- Draw-7's are good. Very good. However the reason why Twister is excluded and Wheel isn't, Timetwister is not an additional discard outlet, and messes up Welders.

Windfall- A Draw-7 that is not always a Draw-7, no thank you. Windfall is too inconsistent to be played.  It's a horrible topdeck when you have spent your hand, unlike all true D7's.

Gifts Ungiven is more consistent than any of these, it's just better to get the cards you need than desperately searching for them.

Library of Alexandria- The biggest setback of the deck is the manabase. Sometimes you get the colored spell, Workshop draw, or vice versa. LoA helped this drawing into additional mana sources. Since LoA does not produce colored mana, or more than 1 colorless, I cut it.

This is what I have been goldfishing for awhile with this and has performed well.

The only card I am uncertain of maindeck is the inclusion of the third Slaver. I think maybe an Explosives maindeck, or maybe even a Patinum Angel or such, to give me an even wider array of Tinker targets.

Any and all criticism is welcome.

Great read. I like the apporach you took with each deck showing strengths and weaknesses instead of "omg, the deck is draw reliant, sukz the Tog, dies, but good." Etc., etc.

However, you should have mentioned about Mindslaver being Chalice, Trini and 3Sphere, Tangle Wire, and Smokestack all rolled into one.

Excellent work.

Ugh, Conjurer's Bauble? I predict this card will see ZERO play. The recursion ability is useless, and this card will not see any play because it cantrips. There are many better, more powerful or synergistic cards to use. I don't think I will be making space in Workshop Slaver for this.

Fifth Dawn has some cool stuff in it, but only a handful of actual good Type One cards. Everything else is chaff.

Congrats on the excellent playing. I know how much sleep depravation can mess with your head. Its nice to see Slavery being played everywhere, showing people the true power of Gleemax.

How good were the Fire/Ice for you? Why the three Brainstorms? I would have cut the F/I for another Slaver and Brainstorm.  Thougths?

Oh yeah, and Urzas Rage>other cards.

YOU WIN TEH PRIZE! Naming a deck and its contents after Fear Factory songs is much cooler than say....naming it after a crappy pop song.  

Now on to something with content.




and:



To sum it all up, I'm not sure. Looking back, I think I should have kept all the Slavers in and taken out the FATTIES. The chalice was going to stay but his deck was random and I had no idea WTF he was playing; during those 3 games I saw ABSOLUTLEY ZERO Dark Rituals, Necropotence, or anything Storm- based at all.

I dont think Chalice was effective at all during that matchup. The lack of knowledge as to what he was playing, which made for some misplays, is what I contribute to my second place finish. I have not tested the deck against combo, much less Academy of all things, so I was unsure of how to board properly. The Gilded Loti are important, but I figured in a matchup where speed is essential, they should be sided out. I was thinking outside of the box. when I sided them out, mana was never a problem. I also think a pair of Mox Monkeys in the board would also be good in such a combo rife environment.



You see the thing is, I live in an area where people believe that Type One is a first turn kill format,and combo dominates all, and somehow decks like Sui and WW can compete. I can't get it through to them that Academy is dead and has been replaced by Storm based combo or DRAGON. Oh yeah and Morphling is still the best creature I have much work to do.



What do you mean? Everytime I cast a 4/5 beater, I growled "SMEMNARCH!" THAT's respect.

Seriously, though, that was an oversight, my bad. Although there are a few differences, the maindeck angel and my constantly changing draw spell, that is sometimes Windfall and sometimes FoF and might become a Bosh. Either way, edited.

On Mogg Salvage, I never used it the entire day, there were few good targets. Might be replaced by Pillars.