It's just one man's opinion - I really like the concept.

It'd also be interesting to see a $ list - something like this:
    5 pts:  cards that cost $500 or more
    4 pts:  cards that cost $400 or more
    3 pts:  cards that cost $300 or more
    2 pts:  cards that cost $200 or more
    1 ps:  cards that cost $100 or more

If he didn't put null rod in the list because "it's a party pooper"
then he should have had a list of the "top 10 party poopers".
For example (in random order),

1)   Null Rod
2)   Platinum Angel
3)   Winter Orb
4)   Phyrexian Furnace
5)   Tormod's Crypt
6)   Chalice of the Void
7)   Trinisphere
8)   Powder Keg
9)   Engineered Explosives
10)  Disrupting Scepter

Jester's Cap
Mindslaver
Tangle Wire
Icy Manipulator
Nevinyrral's Disk
etc.

I was also looking forward to a list of the top 0 cc artifacts.

well said.  Personally, I like the Meandeck designations.  However, many meandeckers
don't seem to understand why others don't.  In the past 6 months, we been given
SmmemmenBlue, Meandeck Titan, Meandeck Oath, Meandeck this, Meandeck that,...

I completely understand why they do this, and have no problem with it, but it does
come off as Arrogant.  Osyp came out with a version of Affinity which splashed
Green to SB oxidize and Viridian Shaman - very different stuff.  He did not call
it "Osyp Affinity" (don't give him any ideas).  Ditto for Kibler, it's not called
"Kibler Affinity."  Kai Budde has come up with many decks (and won with them),
 and yet there not a bunch of decks named after him or his team.

That's it, it comes off as arrogant, so people post complaints - that's what people
do.  Interestingly, meandeckers don't come off as arrogant at all in their articles (unless
they're talking about shortbus!)

As for the actually topic of this thread, I agree that too many decklists is better than
too few.

Peace,
     wizmentor

High Market doesn't have most of these problems:


High Market
Card type: Land
Oracle text: T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
T, Sacrifice a creature: You gain 1 life.

It's a possible answer to oath.  It's a land, so it's not counterable, and doesn't fall prey to
"EOT give you a dork" nastiness (that skullclamp, for example is vulnerable to).
It doesn't hand your opponent extra kill mechanisms. Can replace mana sources in a deck, instead of a spell.
Of course, having extra nonbasics that generate only colorless mana isn't the best,
but in an oath-heavy environment (if such a place were to ever exist), I could see
High Market as a meta-game card.

Of course, Steve seemed pretty perturbed by maindeck seal of cleansings,
so that's a possibility as well.

If it's misdirected, it's also possible you may want to use it to thin your library of unwanted cards.  Especially if those are dead/bad cards in the matchup.

Another possibility is to just play pre-sideboarded landstill
with the new land, and sideboard "back" into landstill,
if that's a better matchup.

Finally, a use for retract - Storm me up!!
lol

"Force of Will" is the glue that holds Type 1 together" is a common phase,
but it is outdated.  Null Rod is another.  As a general rule, you either run
Null Rod or run moxen.  Look at any recent top8.

Now, with MWS/Trinisphere/Crucible, we have another piece of glue -
wasteland.

JP wonders aloud whether Crucible will become metagame distorting.
It probably will be just enough for the ubiquitous wasteland to become
omnipresent.

So, now Type 1 has 3 pieces of "glue":  FOW, Null Rod, and Wasteland.

The question I have is "do we want to be continually adding
essential elements (glue) to the format?"


p.s. I say restrict both MWS and Bazaar, but that's because I only own
1 of each :lol:

So, you can

1) Play lots of basic lands to avoid Crucible/Wasteland
2) Play lots of your own Crucibles to out-crucible your opponent
3) Play a deck fast enough to avoid "the Crucible Problem"

Another possibility is to play a deck that doesn't require a lot
of land (like those with Frogmites/Myr Enforcers) and play
Ankh of Mishra.  Especially hurts the ubiquitous fetchlands.

I REALLY think you guys should consider

Ankh of Mishra       Artifact       2      
Whenever a land comes into play, Ankh of Mishra deals 2 damage to that land's controller.

Consider:
1)   Don't need to attack to win!
2)   Makes Crucible (which is big now) really ineffective against you.
3)   Makes Dragon Cry
4)   Good synergy with strips, Froggys, Enforcers, Plating...
5)   Makes Fetchlands Cry (5 damage to play!)

I really think Ankh Crusher is the way to go, at least in the sb if you
don't use it in the main.

Rico,
     You've described this deck as being like "Suicide" - disrupt, then drop threats.  To me, it's like both Sui and Keeper in this it is a Land Destruction (aka Mana Denial) Deck.  I think if you'd explain it this way, you wouldn't get "Do you really need 4 Sundering Titans?"/"What about Juggernaut?" questions.  Just something to think about if you ever write a primer.



First, once u understand the LD theme, then you can see that this deck is VERY tight. It can play beatdown or control effectively.  In fact it can do both at the same time. (Swing with Titan/Weld for another). Looking over the list, the weak link IMHO was Lotus Petal, but you took it out already.  Here's some other ideas:

1)   Instead of replacing the Lotus Petal with a Shivan Reef, how about a putting in a Dust Bowl for extra Land D.  Again, it's only a suggestion as I don't know if you're getting enough of your colored sources.

2)   Memnarch is good and all, but how about a Karn in the side instead of a 3rd Mem.  With Karn, you could kill a few moxes the turn he came into play, which would be harder for the mana hungry mem.  This could be important tempo-wise.

3)   I know the emphasis of the deck is LD Beatdown, but it's hard to believe that a deck with 29 mana sources and 4 welders wouldn't want 2 or 3 slavers in the board.  Yes, it depends on the metagame, but old type 2 MBC would give this deck some trouble - Slavers would turn that around in a hurry.  (I'm not sure my tone's coming across correctly - I don't think the deck "sucks".  Quite the contrary, I think it's cool.  I just think it vulnerable to creature hate.  perhaps your high-powered meta does not have this.  Mine does.)

4)   The more I think about it, as you have tinker, a singleton mindslaver would not be out of order.  Indeed a mystical tutor would be an excellent addition.  No, I have no idea what you should take out.

peace, superdad

Frantic Search has would let you dig, discard fatties
into the yard, and possibly produce mana.

As opposed to, say, Careful study, it has synergy
with trinisphere.

The question, in my mind, is how many colored spells
can the mana base support?

Just my $0.02

peace, superdad

p.s. It's funny how the new face of reanimator has
artifacts and no black.

Nice article, as always.

About ravager affinity,
I'd like some thoughts about wastelands and tangle wires.
I know these will wreck the mana base a little and slow the
deck down, but if it also slows down the opponent, it seems
worth it.  This deck can "out-permanent" most other
decks quickly.

Comments?


p.s. J.P. aside from an April's Fool Joke, where Oscar?  I miss his
articles (though the quality at the end wasn't the same as the
beginning).  He could write about something other than theory
articles and keeper - I would welcome it!

You're right, of course.  Here's what I was trying to do:
1)  create a card that was type 1 relevant.
2)  create a card that was flavored against blue and artifacts.
3)  create a card that was powerful.

There seems to be a consensus that the card is overpowered.
Keeping in mind the above 3 criteria, I think I've some wording
people can live with.  Here it is:

Frenzy
RG
Sorcery
Discard your hand:  Untap all Red and Green creatures that attacked this turn. After
this phase, there is an additional combat phase followed
by an additional main phase.

one may compare it to Relentless Assault:
Relentless Assault
2RR
Sorcery
Untap all creatures that attacked this turn. After
this phase, there is an additional combat phase followed
by an additional main phase.

High casting cost is a death knell (sp?) to Type 1.  In exchange for the smaller
casting cost, you must supply 2 different colored mana, and you must
discard your hand.

I think these disadvantages make it not superstrong in other formats,
but stronger in the "balls to the walls" Type 1.

Comment?

Some of the suggested changes have been made.

I think it's clear that this card was designed for type 1.
It's an attempt to give some power to a card combination that
has generally been languishing


Initiate 24 hour clock

With the rise of the popularity of mana crypt, perhaps we should invent a new acronym...

Vwalla :lol:

9 SoLoCV Moxen
51 other cards

(C for Crypt, V for Vault).


peace,
     superdad

I was thinking of adding tinker for memory jar. You run tinker without the jar?  Do you tinker for ravager?  skullclamps?  Seems like jar would be better.


People have shown concerns about Workshop, and I guess I'd probably go with a list similar to J.P.'s (but with jar) since I only own 1 Workshop.  However, it seems like a parallel build using workshops, jar, and genesis chamber could be pretty insane.

peace, superdad

I thought about that, and that's why I changed the card so that all of your artifacts in play are removed from the game.  Note also that it says "may" remove.



I don't think it would be nearly as format-defining as skullclamp, especially in a block adjacent to mirrodin.  Heck, It may not be even as format defining as fires of yavimaya.

Is it powerful? Yes!  That's the idea.  Is it p9?  Absolutely not.  The basic idea is to give a powerful, but non-distorting, card to a color combination that has been destroyed in recent years (in Type 1).   Red and Green are the 2 enemies of blue and artifacts, and I tried to design the card with the color wheel in mind.  Some of you don't like it, but I think it's an elegant solution.

     -superdad

Well, I guess I respectfully disagree.
No RG deck has been Tier 1 in a very long time.  If this were
restricted, this would give it a bump.  Without artifact
mana, taking an extra turn is basically taking an
extra attack phase, which is good, but not braz-oken.

As for flavor, I think R&D would probably agree with
you - but I wouldn't.  Blue is the color of trickiness.
There's nothing tricky about taking another turn - it's just
powerful.  As Oscar Tan would say, Time Walk gives you:

Another untap phase
Another upkeep phase
Another draw phase (it's a cantrip)
and Another Attack phase.

Getting another attack phase is not "in flavor"
for blue.

However, I do like your amended language.

One more thing, Time Warp is not a type 1 quality card, which
this is indended to be.  I tried to come up with a type 1
card that has an appropriate and interesting "drawback."
What is often done is to give a card a larger casting cost.





Let's look at a currentish FCG list:
//NAME: Goblin Chains - Joshua Silvestri (Vegeta2711) - Jan. 2004
// Mana
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Chrome Mox
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
4 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills

5 Mountain
// Combo Card
4 Food Chain
// Creatures
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
2 Siege-Gang Commander
2 Goblin Matron
3 Gempalm Incinerator

3 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Recruiter
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Skirk Prospector
4 Goblin Lackey

This deck cannot compete in a Type 1 metagame without
the 7 mana artifacts.

I really think the card is powerful, but not broken.
Not nearly as good as Yagwin.  Not nearly as good
as time walk because of the colors, let alone the
drawback.

I think you guys are really underestimating the effect of the drawback.
Of the top 18 decks outlined by Kerz, only landstill and Mask did not
run the full moxen.  Of course, these strategies would not run this
card.

Time Waltz
RG
Sorcery
Take an extra turn after this one.  Any opponent may remove any number of blue cards and artifact cards from your graveyard, hand, and library.

Edit:
As suggested, the newer language is more clearer.
Time Waltz
RG
Sorcery
Target player takes another turn after this one.  Any opponent may remove any number of blue cards and artifact cards from your graveyard, hand, library, and in-play zone from the game.

Now, it's misdirectable, and your mana artifacts are removed from play as well.

Edit:
Frenzy
RG
Sorcery
Discard your hand:  Untap all Red and Green creatures that attacked this turn. After
this phase, there is an additional combat phase followed
by an additional main phase.

I had the same problem - trying to find a deck that was fun.  I didn't want to play draw-go because I like to PLAY, not watch.  OTOH, I don't like to go balls to the walls only to fall flat and get run over.  So, keeper was out as was sligh.  I found the perfect deck list I fell in love with.  I played it for a while, but the T1 community said it wasn't good any more (Rector-Tendrils).  This was about the time Steve started in with all the Long stuff, and I played it.  Then it got restricted out   I tried it convert it to death-Long, but it didn't have the consistency.

Then I was watching someone actually play hulk.  It's fun, Hulk doesn't sit there, it PLAYS every turn.  I also put together Slavery.  That is where my journey has led.

I've had some of the same experiences as you.  Try slavery, it's very fun. (It'd be even more
fun it those darn welders didn't have summoning sickness!)

peace,
   superdad

If any deck could use retract, this is it.
with x4 retract and moxes (I know many
of you are interested in budget), this deck
should be faster.

For example, with a reasonable hand of
land, ritual, mox, egg, egg, egg, retract
you can win first turn (if the 3 cards drawn
are mox, ritual, tendrils)...
and this is without even drawing a helm.

This would be an advantage over fluctuator,
which cannot go off without fluctuator.

In a deck with 5 fetch, 4 wasteland, and a strip,
terravore should at least be considered.

Why no glimmervoid?  Seems like 1 or 2 would be a good
replacement for painlands.

The next evolution in sligh will occur when someone figures out how to effectively include solomoxen.  When you can play do multiple things on turn 1, it'll be able to do the things other type 1 decks can.  This would mean a shift away from some sligh staples.  combo vs. brute efficiency.

As for the blue splash, I definitely think time walk and ancestral are worth it.

     -superdad

I decided to get into type 1 a little bit, so I was struck by this question

What I bought:
P9, mana drain x4, duals x4, fetches x4

Idea 2:
go to Dr. Sylvan's list - get those.
http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/expandnews.php?Article=6543

Idea 3:
Put together type 1 Tog.  If you can put together Tog, you're within
$100 or so of many other decks (that don't play workshop or bazaar).

Ideas 4:
Start collecting all of the cards off the restricted list.  Stuff like Frantic
Search and Crop Rotation are still used sometimes, and you can get
both for less than $0.50 each.


    -superdad

What I've found with some goldfishing is that
the deck really turns on when it hits threshold.
With threshold, Cabal Rituals give you MORE
mana than pre-restriction long.

With the deck going back to mostly 2 colors,
why not run fetchlands which fuel threshold?

Some thought should also be given to careful
study.