NEW B/R LIST IS UP

[psyduck]

Quote (Azhrei @ Mar. 03 2003,17:14)Do you know WHY our format may have just gone to shit? Because someone made a reasoned argument based on popular opinion. Now, I don't blame the person who made that argument one bit-- after all, he was just reporting the results of a poll.
.....


Democracy doesn't work because people are STUPID. This is a classic example of ignorance rearing its ugly head to fuck everyone in the ass. Hey, while we're at it, who here doesn't like taxes? Why don't we vote to end taxes so we can have more money? It's not like we need roads or police or anything.

DAMMIT.

I totally agree with you. People who called for unrestricting berserk should be shot in the face. As for entomb , the only players who will suck it are 3 card dragon combos who think 3 cards at 1BBB cost is better than 2 cards at 3BB. As for earthcraft, since when has any enchantress been good?


People are stupid cows and WOTC is actually quite innocent. WOTC doesnt know jack about type 1, come to thetype 1 community for advice, and idiots speak up asking for more broken cards like berserk. Type 1 should not be lead by democracy. I hope they reverse their decision next month. Since WOTC seems to be poll friendly, LETS HAVE A POLL and get them to reverse thier misinformed changes.

[Anonymous]

For some reason I don't see artifact fueled decks abusing this card on the same level that psychatog does. It is a wasted spot in TNT which would enter the deck after many others. Also BTW I quite enjoy the Team Paragon Logo it is quite catchy. Also it is fun to laugh and point at Team Paragons decks (anything Wilkenson suggests, though he is the man).

[jpmeyer]

Seriously, I love, LOVE how all I ever hear is "WOTC NEVER LISTENS TO US!  THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT TYPE 1" and then once WotC does EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE ASKED to do (after all, Smmenen sent in poll results) it IMMEDIATELY prompts more bitching.\n\n

[Azhrei]

@ Fever Dog: Matt D'Avanzo and I have been leading the "Oh Jesus I can't believe they said that" club since before you knew what mana was.      

[PsychoCid]

On top of that, I've been calling everybody morons for about as long as I could have possibly been.

I (standing for pretty much everyone on this side of the argument and so many millions of similar ones) can out smart the majority of the worlds human populace with ease.  This has little to do with how smart I am and nearly everything to do with how moronic most people are.

You know you've hit this point when every time somebody fucks up an entire group of people (30 minimum) will grow silent to hear you mutter "God, I hate morons."\n\n

[leakycow]

Sure...WOTC listened finally, and now many are angry.  The thing that most rational people should be angry about is the decimation of two low-budget decks with entomb and earthcraft going away.

Those of you who claim to be "ambassadors" to the rest of the magic community, eager to bring in the ignorant masses to the Type 1 utopia, willing to fight all stereotypes about Type 1 being about $1500 decks and broken plays--it's you who should be really angry.  
To the person who loses to a berserked Tog at an upcoming tourney, you shouldn't be that upset...hell, that's just Magic.

[-CF-]

Quote Matt D'Avanzo and I have been leading the "Oh Jesus I can't believe they said that" club since before you knew what mana was.

Was that before or after the thread where Matt D suggested Fire/Ice and Pernicious Deed for Keeper and YOU dismissed them BOTH. (yes, yes, I've had some flaky ideas too, but I just read this at an internet archive )

Old BD thread @ Internet archive

--
Chris

[Amosw99]

HAHAHA everyone is stupid  

seriously, I think that there may be a place in R/G zoo (if it takes out untargetables) and R/G TNT for berserks. TnT could change significantly, you could play a tubby, berserk it for 10 on turn 2, then use the 4 bolts 4 chains and 4 flings (tech!) that are in the new deck to burn them out. I'm not sure what a build would look like, but I can see cutting utility creatures and spells for a blazing fast deck.
Imagine, turn one juggy, turn 2 berserk, swing for 10, fling for 10 for the win.
Also, Turn one juggy, turn 2 2 berserks for the win.
I don't know if it's actually better than any of the other versions of TnT, but it certainly makes the deck more explosive.
Amos

[jpmeyer]

Quote (-CF- @ Mar. 03 2003,22:23)

Quote Matt D'Avanzo and I have been leading the "Oh Jesus I can't believe they said that" club since before you knew what mana was.

Was that before or after the thread where Matt D suggested Fire/Ice and Pernicious Deed for Keeper and YOU dismissed them BOTH. (yes, yes, I've had some flaky ideas too, but I just read this at an internet archive )

Old BD thread @ Internet archive

--
Chris

Quote (JP 'Polluted' Meyer the Archivist @ Monday, June 25, 2001 - 05:39 pm)
If you ran Deed in Keeper, I'd consider using only the "important" Moxen and replacing the other ones with more expensive artifact mana producers like Fellwar Stone, Grim Monolith, and/or Star Compass.

Star Compass in Keeper 4L\n\n

[Fishhead]

Although the Berserk thing worries me (the Earthcraft thing just puzzles me), I'm going to go out and play some games before I get all wound up about it.  

If unrestricting Berserk leads to some sort of Stompy renassiance, that'd be great.  I expect GroTog to get even faster and more explosive than it already is, but we'll see how much further up the 'broken' scale it gets pushed.  Maybe it wont be so bad.  Maybe it will be.  Playtest will show.

On the other side of the coin, didnt someone say that Earthcraft and Entomb are to pacify the 1.5 crowd?  Ok, whatever.  So T1 catches a stray round from someone elses gunfight.  We'll manage to survive.  I can see how it would be annoying if you were trying to build a "budget deck" from these components, but its not a death knell for the format.

[Azhrei]

@ CF: I fully admit to not being right all the time, but you have to bear in mind that this was before me and all the others started brainstorming in private and posting only good ideas.  Sometimes you just throw shit at the wall and see what sticks. I attribute my rejection of Fire/Ice to seeing it next to Deed and still using U/B OSE at that time so I wasn't testing Keeper. But yeah, that's ugly. Hah!  

[Desert Fox]

Quote (jpmeyer @ Mar. 03 2003,19:32)Star Compass in Keeper 4L

Dude, that has got to be the funniest thing I've read. Ever.  

[Methuselahn]

No doubt I will be setting myself up for the flaming of a lifetime, but it really won't bother me.

I think the new b/r list will be refreshing and healthy.  

TNT is obviously THE aggro deck to play right now.  Berserk now resurrects lots of formerly unplayable aggro decks, which now stand a chance against the very dominating TNT and Control builds.  Berserk hurts blue control, just adapt to the metagame.  Berserk boosts Stompy, which is good, cause it needs the help.  I personally don't own any berserks, nor will I.  But I'm glad to see it come back.  I will forced to adapt.  Don't expect to see everybody and their kid brother with 4 berserks, they're not islands for christ's sake.  

I don't see the logic in allowing inexpensive, effective, deadly combo in type one.  Entomb facilitates this.  Now, I would have rather seen WDragon get errata, chalk this error up to DCI.  Combo decks are good in moderation.  Expensive combo like academy is fine cause not everyone in the meta can afford it.  Earthcraft probably restricted for 1.5 reasons.  I don't see enough of this card, so I don't consider it a big metagame shakeup.

To all of you who add their 2 cents without doing it in a civil manner:  How do you expect to be taken seriously??  Have you ever won an arguement by shouting at and flaming ideas? no.  Insults are so  

[chaosdjinn]

IMHexperience, MULTIPLE BERSERKS ARE INSANE

DUST OFF YOUR MAZES OF ITH AND STP's BOYS...AND WELCOME TO

AGGR'03

[K-Run]

About the topic :

I like it! Thanks Wizards!  

[Prospero]

For starters...

    DON'T OVERREACT...

    Yes, Berserk is a good card - a very good card that breaks games very, very well.  However - it is a card that is dependant on creatures.  Creatures that can be removed or countered. Berserk will be best in Gro and GroATog, but, the creatures that it will have the most powerful effects with - Psychatog and Quirion Dryad are both groundpounders and cheap cc wise (hello Moat, Abyss, Powder Keg.)  How to stop Berserk, let me count the ways:

1. Swords in response
2. Diabolic Edict you
3. Wish for Edict, Edict you
4. Mana Drain
5. Force of Will
6.  Misdirection (and when isn't that fun?)
7.  The Abyss
8.  Moat
9.  Block with my random dork
10. Blood Moon.  (Gro and GroATog - I woud imagine - would have a horrible time with this on the board.  If red can't burn out their creatures, screw with their mana and aim the burn at their dome.)

    That leaves an answer of some sort for every color - and for the blue player, resolve a keg, keep it on 2 or 3, and see what happens then if you can't counter their threats.

    We are currently playing in an environment that is more aggro focused.  This usually means one of two things:

1.  You're playing aggro yourself.
2.  You're playing a deck geared againt aggro.

    If anything, the unrestriction of Berserk means that the decks that can't handle aggro stay in the loser's bracket.  As a Keeper/BBS player (I already lose to Gro with BBS, why complain more?)  I don't think its going to really change my matchups all that much - other than that I'm going to be playing Keeper for awhile, until the metagame settles down.

    Get control of yourselves.  This is Type One.  Broken things happen.  And don't take anything I've said personally...

Later,

Prospero

[jpmeyer]

Quote (K-Run @ Mar. 03 2003,23:17)About the topic :

I like it! Thanks Wizards!  

HOW DARE YOU!

You understand that getting WotC to do what you want to Type 1 is the same as killing Type 1, right?

[NaClhv]

Gentlemen, relax.  This is type 1.  We'll adapt.

Not that I necessarily think that this will be good for the format, but really, it's nothing that can't be handled by the vast card pool in type 1.  How things have changed, for us to be now afraid of an attacking creature ruining the format.  (If it helps at all, go back to that "keeper beats everything" mentality, and everything will seem fine.  I mean, you just have to get an abyss down, right?)  

As an aside, I think it's also pretty funny how we can't pin this one on wizards.  If anyone believes that the B/R list change is wrong, you should write in saying "I believed that berserk was ok to unrestrict, but I was wrong.  Please restrict it."

Azhrei:  You are out of line.  You and Zherbus, though you are super-administrators (or, perhaps, because you are super-administrators) must learn to accept criticism, lest the doom of Bdominia fall upon us here at TMD.  I don't think we're really in any danger of that kind, but posts and attitudes like yours insulting the entire "masses" are what contributes the most to the perception of elitism, not the fact that you are a good player.

[chaosdjinn]

Quote (K-Run @ Mar. 03 2003,20:17)About the topic :

I like it! Thanks Wizards!  

May you be on the receiving end of a Berserked-critter EVERYTIME you play type 1.

[Redman]

Prospero, I agree with you except with one thing:

Quote We are currently playing in an environment that is more aggro focused.  This usually means one of two things:

1.  You're playing aggro yourself.
2.  You're playing a deck geared againt aggro.

   If anything, the unrestriction of Berserk means that the decks that can't handle aggro stay in the loser's bracket.

There is only one really good aggro deck out there right now, and that's TnT. And it isn't even that good.  And I've never seen it comprise more than 2 or 3 decks in a tournament (needing 4 Workshops + all the power can do that).


Re: Amos and Methuselan

Unrestricted Berserk is a horrible thing for aggro decks, including TnT. Berserk is a combo card, not an aggro card.  What it helps are are decks that are aggro-control (or call them aggro-combo now if you'd like).  Red and green don't have the kind of proper support, unless maybe you go with somwthing like Jeek's Sweater Invitational deck. And with Keeper likely to be sporting extra StP's in the future, I don't see that working out to well.

Overall, unrestricting Berserk is one of the worst things that could happen to aggro because:

a) It makes the new "aggro-combo" decks stronger, and we all know how aggro does against combo of any flavor.

b) It will increase the amount of creature removal cards in control, thus further weakening aggro's chances.  

And JP, if K-Run had his way, I can guarantee he'd do something so that Avoid Fate decks were king.

[Vegeta2711]

Chaos: K-Run is probably playing Parfait. He laughs at creatures.  

[Mith]

Have you guys seen the prices of Berserks on EBay? Unlimiteds are going to end in the $40's...which means Betas are now $50+

Interestingly enough, the top bidder on the two prettiest Beta Berserks on Ebay has an Ebay id "Azhrei171"...I wonder who that might be

Maybe I'll bid $50 yet...Troll and Toad's website was cleaned out in minutes.

[Moxlotus]

I got mine from Smedlock  Get them while they're hot!!!

[Bastian]

NaClhv: bravo, I wouldn't have said it better myself. The whole elitism issue is more about a question of attitude.

I must say though that what I like the most about TMD is that it's not so tight as BD was. At least it doesn't seem we're under a dictatorship (i hope I got that right... or at least made mylsef understood).

I must say that the new B/R list was nice to see at first because my initial reaction was: "hooray, they listened to us", and then I remembered gro-a-tog. It's not funny.

I can't understand the restriction of entomb. Reanimator and dragon combo aren't broken. The same applies to squirrelcraft. And if entomb was a too much good tutor effect what does that make of survival of the fittest?? o_0

I think that Berserk won't stay where it is for long if gro-a-tog dominates the field as much as monoblue did when FoF was unrestricted...\n\n

[spin13]

Its a sad day when there are approximately 10 posts worth reading amidst 5 pages of crap.  Oh wait, this is the internet.  Well, Mr. Stephen R. carZherb, at least you did a good job picking moderators.

-1170

[Redman]

Ok, this is maybe a really cynical view of things, but maybe in a strange way, the DCI is trying to get more people to play Type 1 by making other players' T2 and Extended decks good in the T1?

[K-Run]

Who still wants to restrict/ban Morphling ?

[jpmeyer]

Quote (K-Run @ Mar. 04 2003,00:04)Who still wants to restrict/ban Morphling ?

I wouldn't mind seeing how it's not as good as oh I don't know, PSYCHATOG. \n\n

[K-Run]

Hehe, the return of targettable creatures in T1. I like it!

To all of those who are whining :
Stop complaining and use your head. It's not like we're not using the biggest card pool in MTG.

[Mr. Channel-Fireball]

If anyone on this board thinks that it takes one person to change the rules of a format that governs thousands upon thousands of players by their 'suggestions' then said person needs to make a reality check.

I believe you really need to leave your ego at the door if you think that this site had major influence on the current b/r list.  Granted, this site is probably one of the leading T1 gatherings, with many viable avenues of, good, information, but do you seriously believe that one persons post altered a game? Do you seriously think that one person restricted Fact or Fiction?

C'mon...get real.