Optimizing Keeper post Mirrodin

[rozetta]

Even though I posted a decklist earlier on this thread, I felt that I'd like to share my current list, since some of my ideas have interested other members, and I've made quite a few changes over the last week due to the fact that I was able to get more playtesting in.

Blue: 20
--------
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
4 Cunning Wish
2 Future Sight
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Read the Runes
1 Power Artifact

White: 5
--------
2 Decree of Justice
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Balance

Black: 5
--------
1 Skeletal Scrying
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Mind Twist
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor

Artifact: 10
------------
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
2 Isochron Scepter
1 Grim Monolith

Land : 20
---------
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Strip Mine
3 Wasteland
1 City of Brass
4 Flooded Strand
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island

Sideboard
---------
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Disenchant
2 Rack and Ruin
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Fire/Ice
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Read the Runes
1 Skeletal Scrying

So here it is. As you'll notice, it's in some ways more combo focused than the previous build. Actually, with the introduction of Read the Runes, I had less need for the Lim-Dul's vaults and they eventually got pushed out of both maindeck and sideboard.

One thing you'll notice when playing this deck is that it is not as combo-orientated as The Shining and it's variations. It basically plays it's game depending on what you draw (either a heavier control or quick combo). I've actually won a game on turn 2, but the opening hand was very odd: Tundra, Sol Ring, Lotus, Grim Monolith, Power Artifact, Decree of Justice + 1 other. Not a normal opening by any means. This is actually a turn 1 kill if the decree is replaced by a cunning wish, and the 7th card is a mox, but again, even more unlikely.

I was talking with a friend on irc about the mana base and we felt that it needed at least one, if not 2 more blue sources, so I cut one Wasteland for a City of Brass. The subtle change has helped smooth things out, and since this build can combo out, the constant LD is not as necessary. Also, you'll notice the lack of Gorilla Shaman, who I've been considering for sideboard slots, but I find Rack and Ruin to be altogether more effective.

I've really not missed the brainstorms at all. For one, Keeper played without them for a long time. Now with things like chalice and sphere being commonplace, they can sometimes feel like more of a burden.

The mana base is back to 28 sources, which seems to be working well. This is actually nice for my metagame where mono black always makes up a large percentage.

As for the scepters, I've actually been liking them more than when I initially tested them. The problem then seemed to be that I had stuck both chalice and scepter in the deck and they were working against each other from time to time. So the chalices will come in from the sideboard for specific matchups while I learn how to use them better. One thing to note is that due to the presence of the combo components, this is one of the few decks that can actually use an imprinted vampiric tutor well (if need be).

Anyway, I'd love to hear from anyone who has tried a similar build - what you liked/didn't like, what you'd change, etc. If you do try it, I hope you have as much fun playing it as I do. Enjoy!

[Grendal]

Thus far my findings on Keeper are much the same to many of you that have already posted.  

I’ve found Isochron Scepter to just be a house, and I’ve found the Chalice to be at best a (one of).   Now don’t get me wrong, I think the Chalice needs to be present in Keeper, and I think there needs to be a number of them in the sideboard that can be brought in to punish decks with a tighter mana curve.   However I like most have found that although the Chalice usually does hurt my opponent more, I often times feel less in control having put one out, and much like Samite Healer Said:

Quote  I don't find it very useful in the mirror match, and because I expect the mirrors to increase post Mirrodin, I'd rather have them in the board.

I to expect to face more mirrors.

Chalice is defiantly one of those cards that it can be good to see from time to time.   I played a Sligh match up just this last week, and upon resolving the Chalice, I had pretty much countered 4 things in his hand, being as though I dropped it on my turn 1.   Later using a decree of justice to deal with the Mogg Fanatic / Pile Driver that he had been able to resolving afterwards.  For the most part though I find that aside from a early chalice for 1, which sometimes scares me, it don’t often like having them in hand.

I am currently really mixed as to the stance I want to take with both Scepter and Chalice.   Scepter thus far has been a great card, I initially tested JP’s build with Accumulated Knowledge’s, although I am quickly finding out that with the high degree of tutoring capabilities in the current incarnation of Keeper, resolving Scepter with something obscene (Ancestral) or (Mana Drain) or even to a lesser degree a brainstorm or the like, is just as game breaking as an Accumulated Knowledge, and at a far less penalty than having to take up 4 slots worth in the deck for Accumulated.

Again…   mixed feelings on both…   not sure if I like AK’s main, or not.   It is a tough call again as to rather or not go give up Future Sight.   Although I have found time and time again that Scepter is just awesome, it’s almost a duress in itself.   Think of it this way…  your opponent cast Scepter, what do you do?   Its one of those cards that you almost have to counter, if you don’t, you may have just given them the advantage with them imprinting an Ancestral or a Mana Drain.   Worse case scenario a person can always just cast Isochron as a bluff.

My thoughts on some of the newer cards in keeper…

•   Lim-Dul’s Vault:  I’m noticing quite a few people posting that they are running this card, or that it has found its way to their sideboard as a wishable target.   I to am highly considering running this card.  The ability to stack your deck, especially in a deck like Keeper is just awesome.   This is also quite frankly probably one of the best of the tutors in that it can literally get you any card you want, if you are willing to invest the life.   This also makes going down to (2 Scepters / 2 Wish / etc) a heck of a lot easier, being as though finding a 2 of in a deck, or some means to piece together a 2 of, is a heck of a lot easier than finding a 1 of.   I wouldn’t be surprised to see this card springing up more and more in keeper builds.

•   Decree of Justice:  What can I say… this card just flat out wins in the control match-ups, as well as it is a dominating force in some of the aggro match-ups as well.   Yes of course you can decree out a bunch of little guys to do some blocking against an aggro deck, yet at the same time, most aggro decks do not pack permission, so actually hard casting out 2 or 3 4/4 flyers ain’t to shabby either.   Either way I think this card is far superior to what Morphling / Masticore could have ever hoped to be.

•   Isochron Scepter:   Thus far I would have to say this is the most overlooked card in the set.   A lot of people are playing a couple in there deck, but if any of the cards printed in Mirrodin hit the restricted list, this one is my pick to be the first candidate.   If you haven’t played with this card, you just should.   It’s a card that your opponent almost must counter, or face a highly probably chance that you will quickly outdraw or outcounter them quite quickly.   You can even just cast it with nothing in your hand as a bluff, being as though 9 times outta 10 I would bet this pulls a counter.   Its like a 2 casting cost duress, in that it will find a counter out of your opponents hand, or it will quickly boost you into the lead with the card advantage it gives.   I also see Keeper players drifting more towards Abeyance/Orim’s Chant, to actually turn this card into a game lock.   To the naysayers that say this card is slow…  I beg to differ…

•   Chalice of the Void:  Again, an awesome card, but I don’t think its going to be quite as big as all the initial hype.   I think at best it’s a new silver bullet for keeper (1 main) with some additional ones in the sideboard to hose specific, and/or narrow mana curve decks.   Don’t get me wrong, I think this card is huge, and that this card alone will cause a format wide change, but I don’t think it warrants as many copies as I have seen some people playing.

•   Tolarian Academy:  I’m glad to see this has made its way back into Keeper.   With the amount of artifacts having gone up via isochron / chalice and the like, I think this was a good card to return to play in Keeper.   If played correctly I think this card is like a Black Lotus on steroids.   I believe the correct way to play this card is not to just throw it out there, but to hold it in hand, perhaps for quite a long time, playing it only when you need the mana boost.   No reason to give your opponent a chance to strip the land, prior to you punishing them with a rather fat Decree.

•   Accumulated Knowledge: I’m not entirely sold on this card yet.   It is a card that can gain some insane card advantage, but at the same time I have to wonder if other card selections wouldn’t be wiser.   I really hate to think about playing a deck without 4 brainstorms, and I wonder if a couple of impulses wouldn’t be comparable to this card anyways.   Not to mention…  with the amount of search ability the new Keeper decks are showing up with, actually putting something like Ancestral or the like on the scepter, isn’t going to be that hard anyways, and its not like a brainstorm every round isn’t broken enough as it is, yet alone a Impulse or Mana Drain or the like.

Ahhh well, I’m really interested to see what new builds surface here in the next month or so, in terms of Keeperish type decks.   I’m betting that we end up seeing Chalice for 1 or 2, going with more of a silver bullet approach, with a pair perhaps in the sideboard as well.   I also expect Isochron Scepter to be a staple in all control decks, with 2 being the absolute minimum.   I also highly expect to see this card considered for the restricted list.

- Grendal

[jntemp777]

rozetta

I notice you have no monkeys.  In the age Chalice/Scepter/Sphere I'm finding 2xmonkeys to be absolutely golden.

I know a lot of people are favouring Scepter in Keeper, but I'm not too sure about 2x of them.  

1.  I find that I'm holding Scepter too long before imprinting.

2.  With an ideal opening hand of 1 ideal low cc instant and Scepter, an opening duress can prevent you from playing Scepter for quite a few turns.

[Ultima]

IMO, I have found scepter to just be a dead draw too much.  There are so many times when I'd love to imprint but actually end up needing the card to be ready and most of the time in the early game, its too risky to tap out for the scepter.

For example, i played Long yesterday, and my opening hand had scepter, drain, force, decree, ruby, solring, land.  

Do I imprint first turn or not?  Times like that happen too much with the scepter and I feel its too risky and puts me in an awkward position.

Additionally in the late game I see it as a dead draw especially when your in a topdecking contest.

[Matt The Great]

Well, yeah, Scepter isn't so hot against Long. But that hand would have been solid gold against any other deck!

[jntemp777]

Quote (Ultima @ Oct. 27 2003,13:43)For example, i played Long yesterday, and my opening hand had scepter, drain, force, decree, ruby, solring, land.  

Do I imprint first turn or not?  Times like that happen too much with the scepter and I feel its too risky and puts me in an awkward position.

Additionally in the late game I see it as a dead draw especially when your in a topdecking contest.

Matt, how about this situation.  

For the sake of arguement I'm gonna change Ultima's hand a bit.

Ultima's opening hand: scepter, drain, force, SWORDS, ruby, solring, land.  
 
turn1:
opponent: drops land, plays duress.  Picks SWORDS.

turn2:
Keeper: draws a non-blue card. drops ruby, land, sol ring and scepter imprinting Mana Drain.  

turn3:
opponent: drops a land, plays illusionary mask....

In this theoretical game, the opponent really did not get an uber broken start.

I like Scepter as a potentially abusable toy, I really do.  But I hate Scepter in that duress often rapes me of a solution card while simultaneously giving me a dead card in hand for X number of turns.

[Samite Healer]

Quote (jntemp777 @ Oct. 28 2003,02:39)

Quote (Ultima @ Oct. 27 2003,13:43)For example, i played Long yesterday, and my opening hand had scepter, drain, force, decree, ruby, solring, land.  

Do I imprint first turn or not?  Times like that happen too much with the scepter and I feel its too risky and puts me in an awkward position.

Additionally in the late game I see it as a dead draw especially when your in a topdecking contest.

Matt, how about this situation.  

For the sake of arguement I'm gonna change Ultima's hand a bit.

Ultima's opening hand: scepter, drain, force, SWORDS, ruby, solring, land.  
 
turn1:
opponent: drops land, plays duress.  Picks SWORDS.

turn2:
Keeper: draws a non-blue card. drops ruby, land, sol ring and scepter imprinting Mana Drain.  

turn3:
opponent: drops a land, plays illusionary mask....

In this theoretical game, the opponent really did not get an uber broken start.

I like Scepter as a potentially abusable toy, I really do.  But I hate Scepter in that duress often rapes me of a solution card while simultaneously giving me a dead card in hand for X number of turns.

Scepter doesn't make that situation bad, it's the duress that makes the situation bad for the Keeper player.  Since decklists that run scepter often run them in place of additional card drawing, such as Future Sight, Deep Analysis, Skeletal Scrying, etc., when the Mask player takes the plow the Keeper player would be left with one of the above, which isn't too good either.  Scepter equals one of those slots and so the Keeper player isn't in such great shape anyway.  Yes, an AK or scrying lets you cycle once, but replace Scepter with a Future Sight in hand and it doesn't matter anyway.  I also think being able to resolve a Scepter with an Impulse/Brainstorm/Fire/Ice outweighs the risk of having scepter sit in your hand without a useful target.  With 16 useful spells to imprint (14 without plows, 18 after Wish), I rarely find it useful.\n\n

[Ultima]

Yeah, Samite Healer has a point.  Basically when your running scepter, your draw engine suffers the blow and frankly if your opponent manages to out counter you over a scepter, or something else, the scepter bomb leaves you too often topdecking while your opponent is outdrawing you and outcountering you.  I found this to happen too much against Hulk for example.

The scepter I think needs a deck around it to be fully optimal and Keeper is not the scepter deck, its Keeper.

[Zherbus]

Those of us who decided not to run Scepter are doing so because in playtesting, most decks had many ways to deal with artifacts (use the Keeper on Keeper mirror for example). Because of this, it was easier to resolve and protect a Skeletal Scrying at any stage in the game, where as you had to mostly get set up to protect a Scepter which meant potentially losing 2 cards for 1 and having enough mana to pay for protection as well as use the Scepter.

My experience with Scepter was abyssmal, though I can see how a deck more focused on abusing it (like BilltheDucks) could make better use of it. We never dropped it too early because removal could have resulted in card loss and when it finally was dropped, hand size was at a real minimum (because you aren't a gigalo like me and don't run 2 Scryings) so not only were Scepter options limited, but sometimes you had to expend all of your options.

EDIT: Ultima - You made no sense whatsoever.

[shlnmnk]

Quote (jntemp777 @ Oct. 27 2003,23:39)

Quote (Ultima @ Oct. 27 2003,13:43)For example, i played Long yesterday, and my opening hand had scepter, drain, force, decree, ruby, solring, land.  

Do I imprint first turn or not?  Times like that happen too much with the scepter and I feel its too risky and puts me in an awkward position.

Additionally in the late game I see it as a dead draw especially when your in a topdecking contest.

Matt, how about this situation.  

For the sake of arguement I'm gonna change Ultima's hand a bit.

Ultima's opening hand: scepter, drain, force, SWORDS, ruby, solring, land.  
 
turn1:
opponent: drops land, plays duress.  Picks SWORDS.

turn2:
Keeper: draws a non-blue card. drops ruby, land, sol ring and scepter imprinting Mana Drain.  

turn3:
opponent: drops a land, plays illusionary mask....

In this theoretical game, the opponent really did not get an uber broken start.

I like Scepter as a potentially abusable toy, I really do.  But I hate Scepter in that duress often rapes me of a solution card while simultaneously giving me a dead card in hand for X number of turns.

maybe I am just retarded, but if that was the opening hand for a match against mask, couldnt you have just forced the duress, pitching drain, and then on your turn drop the scepter with swords on it?

though I do see the argument if you are talking about game one against an unknown deck, where that duress could be followed up by long.dec brokenness.

[LoA]

Even if you don't force the Duress, after he picks the swords you can narrow down his deck to 2 choices, most likely 1 depending on his land drop.  Why you would then tap out to drop the Scepter is beyond me.  However, I do think Scepter is slow in matchups in which Keeper has a tough time.  In the appropriate  metagame it's a good call, but if you see a decent amount of Tog and Long, I'd stick to other options.

[jntemp777]

Quote Scepter doesn't make that situation bad, it's the duress that makes the situation bad for the Keeper player

@ Samite, I'm glad that we agree on this point.

Quote With 16 useful spells to imprint (14 without plows, 18 after Wish), I rarely find it useful.

I agree here too.  I rarely find Scepter useful in Keeper.  

I think the most efficient use for Scepter as Ultima and Zherbus stated is a deck that is fully built around it.  

@shlnmnk, that is correct, game 1 vs mystery deck\n\n

[rozetta]

This weekend I was playing wMUD and a first turn shaman really shut down any chances of playing Chalices. I didn't realize how good the shaman was until I was on the receiving end of it. I've only noticed how bad the shaman is against countless artifactless decks.

With the advent of mirrodin, maybe that will change.

Isochron Scepter is good only in certain matchups where you can easily imprint a key spell to slow the opponent down enough to take control. They're not good against any deck running discard or other heavy disruption, since it takes time to set the thing up (as already mentioned). To be honest, there don't seem to be a lot of decks out there that fit this "key spell" description nowadays.

I agree with the idea that there will be enough artifact hate post-mirrodin to really question the viability of scepter. Even a single seal of cleansing can ruin your day. On the same note, if chalices or scepters are rampant (e.g. MUD, Chalice Black, etc.), the monkey is definitely the choice card over scepter. At least with Mirrodin, there's more of a chance that the monkey will not be a dead card.

As for chalice main, I'm still not sure. It's been good and bad in testing, even in wMUD. I'm beginning to lean towards the idea of running one or two main to tutor up should the matchup require it (as a few people have already mentioned).

Building Keeper right now is so difficult, especially for unknown metagames. I playtest against various decks around here and some days it does great while others, like today, it flat out loses. I still feel it's one of the most flexible decks around, but I just can't seem to get that perfect mix maindeck, and now I keep second guessing myself about what to include. It's getting frustrating.

Back to the drawing board...

[Crater Hellion]

Quote (jntemp777 @ Oct. 28 2003,14:18) 

I think the most efficient use for Scepter as Ultima and Zherbus stated is a deck that is fully built around it.  

what card isn't most efficient in a deck built around it?


Wasteland. But I'm not going to waste a post saying so.
-Jacob \n\n

[Eastman]

The word on scepter is this:

1. You obviously have to make considerations for it when including Isochron Scepter in a deck. We don't need to argue that if you're running scepter you need to have a few additional instants.

2. Scepter is very strong against Aggro, Control, and Workshop strategies.
Briefly I will say:
It is an extremely potent 2 mana threat in most control mirror situations and that is obviously going to be very useful.

It can act as an Abyss against aggro and generally ends games against decks that don't have an easy way to remove it.

It IS strong against Workshops... the explanation why is a bit more lengthy than I want to bother with right now but anyone who has tested this would agree.


3. Scepter's weakness is Combo strategies. Although Isochron Scepter can help 'seal' a win when a combo player has stalled out its required tempo investment makes it a dead card against any well built/played combo deck.



So I'd say it's still a very meta dependent call. If I were playing in Dulmen next week (where combo has a massive presence) I obviously wouldn't plan on running even a tuned Scepter build. In my local NE meta where combo has a more average presence I am not surprised to see well tuned Scepter-Keeper variants performing very well.


EDIT: Just for review: Gorilla Shaman is still a must play.\n\n

[Matt The Great]

Who would cut a Shaman for Scepter? That's just wrong no matter which way you look at it.

[VideoGameBoy]

Quote (Matt The Great @ Oct. 28 2003,14:39)Who would cut a Shaman for Scepter? That's just wrong no matter which way you look at it.

Maindecking Shaman is only slightly better than maindecking Blood Moon.

I will say this about Scepter - I've never before had the opportunity to play a T2 deck that could win on the first turn one out of every 5 games; until now.

[Smmenen]

Quote (VideoGameBoy @ Oct. 28 2003,15:20)

Quote (Matt The Great @ Oct. 28 2003,14:39)Who would cut a Shaman for Scepter? That's just wrong no matter which way you look at it.

Maindecking Shaman is only slightly better than maindecking Blood Moon.

I will say this about Scepter - I've never before had the opportunity to play a T2 deck that could win on the first turn one out of every 5 games; until now.

VGB, I'm usually with you on your comments - but what do you mean here?  Which type two deck wins on turn one?  And you don't think shaman is good in keeper?  I do.

Steve

[VideoGameBoy]

Quote (Smmenen @ Oct. 28 2003,15:28)VGB, I'm usually with you on your comments - but what do you mean here?  Which type two deck wins on turn one?  And you don't think shaman is good in keeper?  I do.

Steve

To spell it out, Shaman is a hate card - the advantage it has over Blood Moon (ala ICT) is that it is cheaper and a win condition (not just a "scoop condition").

Since Shaman is a hate card, it is thus meta dependent, and you either maindeck or sideboard it according to your meta.  It is not an obligatory inclusion.

The T2 deck that "wins" first turn is any that can play Chrome Mox, Land, Isochron Scepter imprinting Boomerang.  If you play this going first, you can stunt your opponent at 1 land while your mana development proceeds unabated.  I played 10 games this weekend with a Warped Devotion/Scepter/Boomerang deck, and landed the combo first turn in 2 of the games (one against WW and the other against Ponza) and both eventually scooped.  The WW player could have eventually landed Savannah Lions, but gave up as soon as I played Undead Gladiator.  In most of the other games, I was usually able to play Scepter second turn imprinting either Boomerang, Unsummon, or Mana Leak (and Stifle post SB).

[Matt The Great]

Well obviously you don't HAVE to include Shaman but I'm assuming that this forum is to talk about powered metagames. If your local Type One means sligh, sligh, white weenie, and maybe one Keeper mirror, this isn't the thread (or forum, or possibly board) for you.

[VideoGameBoy]

Quote (Matt The Great @ Oct. 28 2003,15:57)Well obviously you don't HAVE to include Shaman but I'm assuming that this forum is to talk about powered metagames. If your local Type One means sligh, sligh, white weenie, and maybe one Keeper mirror, this isn't the thread (or forum, or possibly board) for you.

Shaman is a cute card when I see it playing Long, Matt, but it hardly cramps my style - especially when it makes my Wills all the more potent.

There are plenty of metas devoid of artifact Prison, as well.

And why must the point of Keeper always be mana denial?  It has just gained one of the most powerful tools it has seen in years - Scepter.  Hell, imprinting Impulse, let alone Drain will probably win more games than Land, Shaman, Go ever did.

I would expect you of all people to be a little more creative.

[jpmeyer]

Because mana denial is even more potent when you can have Chalices set at low numbers?

[Matt The Great]

Not to mention that Shaman eats Scepters pretty well, too.

[VideoGameBoy]

Quote (Matt The Great @ Oct. 28 2003,16:28)Not to mention that Shaman eats Scepters pretty well, too.

And Chalices too, for that matter.

I never said it was a shitty card - so please stop acting like I did.

I will go on record saying Chalice is crap in Keeper, though.

[Eastman]

Listen I decided to mention that Shaman is still a must play though I realized that it's fairly obvious.

VGB you're obviously in a minority. You aren't realistically going to convince us that Shaman is bad in current Keeper lists.  If you'd like to try I'd suggest a single card discussion.

This is not the place for card specific arguments about current Keeper staples. I'd like to keep this discussion pointed towards innovating the current keeper variant including Mirrodin.

[Ultima]

Perhaps it is a metagame choice, but I definitely advocate the chalice VGB.

Its too incredible in certain matchups particularly in my meta where there is a full barrage of Hulk, Long, Madness, and  budget aggros.

I suppose it depends on where your playing but at least the majority has decided that it has at least one spot in Keeper so far.

PS- Then thanks for clearing up the confusing thoughts   Zherbus.

[VideoGameBoy]

Quote (Ultima @ Oct. 28 2003,17:16)Perhaps it is a metagame choice, but I definitely advocate the chalice VGB.

Its too incredible in certain matchups particularly in my meta where there is a full barrage of Hulk, Long, Madness, and  budget aggros.

Chalice is weak in Keeper due to its symmetry.  Sure, it may steal a win occasionally versus Long or budget aggro, but it does squat in the mirror, or versus Hulk, Dragon, Prison, etc.

And Eastman, I would never advocate going below 1 Shaman maindeck - but I could certainly see moving one sideboard in favor of a maindecked Scepter, which is why I made my comment in the first place.

[Ultima]

I don't know about you but chalice does way more than steal a win against Long and budget.  So far in my testing and tournys its stolen the match.

Additionally, i'm not quite certain how you can say that it does nothing against Hulk when its definitely made a difference by making my opponent scoop many times.

[jpmeyer]

When you are running the full set of Moxes along with Tolarian Academy in a deck with about 12 artifacts, it's not that tough to get the 6 mana that you need to cast Chalice against Hulk.  Granted, winning the counterwar is another story when you've invested that much mana, but it's not out of the question.

Also, if you don't run Impulse it makes X=2 a good move since you take out their AKs while you still have Scrying and FoF.  X=1 isn't so bad either since it takes out Duress.

[Rico Suave]

No, it's not a "bad" card but it's not exactly good either.  

Actually, I would say that by setting Chalice at 1, you will have more dead cards than Tog will.  They lose Duress/Brainstorm, Keeper loses Shaman/Brainstorm/StP (StP can't be shuffled back now).

Chalice at 2, well, that is a 4cc sorcery speed spell.  It's difficult to resolve.  

Do you really keep it maindeck against Tog?  Or do you SB it out?  I think it would be unwise to keep it main, and that's true in the majority of matches.  That makes for a SB card, especially since Chalice is so much better when you know what your opponent is playing, another downside of maindeck Chalice.

Finally, Chalice and Scepter have terrible synergy.  And considering Scepter is by far the more powerful of the two, I think it would be best to accomodate that.  I see Chalice at best as a SB card, with maybe one maindeck if you have enough tutors to find it.