Perfecting 5c stax build

[Buttons]

Think about that. What is it that you are welding back?

Rarely anthing, really. Welder is primarily used to perfor the old switcharoo with your opponents'  artifacts, which hardly seems good enough. I needed to make room in my build, and cut the 4th Welder to make room for the second Shaman, which is far, far better. I've even gone on record stating that ' Welder sucks in stax'.

Someone make a decklist without Welders, and let's see how it does.  Welder is a cruicial part to any prison deck.  I would never run less than 4.  Welder allows you to not only get stuff out quicker, including fatties like Trisk, Karn, Titan, and Razormane, but it allows you to recur lock pieces, like Tangle Wire, or Stax (if it should be so countered)  first turn Welder is the sickness.  Not only is he good in the early game, but (obviously) he gets better as the game progresses, as anyone can tell you.

I don't know how you can say that Welder sucks in stax.  Mox Monkey should always be an at least 2 of, but you shouldn't be cutting out Welders for him.

I find a very large problem with 5c - There's a TON of insane stuff you want to have in the deck, and you just can't cut enough to put it all in there.  For instance, I would LOVE to have Fastbond.  Fastbond+Cruicible = Doom for your opponent, especially if you have Mox Monkey out.  The simple fact is that drawing is weak in 5c (thirst is so inferior to bazaar in uba,) and most of the lock pieces are just inferior to other stuff that variants of Stax are running.

[Clown of Tresserhorn]

Goblin lore sounds like it'd be amazing in Uba Stax. I heard Vroman tested it and ended up cutting it, so maybe he can chime in? As far as 5c stax goes, it has a much lower reliance on welder, so the random discard may be painful.

Also, why does everyone want draw in stax? I've been perfectly happy with the card selection I get off tutors. If you want to run draw, is strategic planning really better than Telling Time? Also, thoughtcast is pretty bad. You need 3 artifacts for it to cost 2, and even then, it's a huge drain target. I hate spamming boards with decklists, but here's the list I've been running:

28 Mana Sources, including barbarian ring.

4 Smokestack
3 Crucible
3 Chalice
3 Sphere of Resistance
1 Trinisphere

2 Welder
2 Shaman

1 Ancestral
1 Vampiric tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Demonic tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Crop rotation
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Balance
1 Tinker
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Swords to Plowshares

1 Triskelion
1 Karn

I really liked sensei's divining top, as it had awesome synergy with the tutors, plus, it lets you pretty much permanently keep a stack on the board (stacking so you draw permanents). The rest of the deck is pretty self-explanatory. I don't run tangle wire, simply because I don't think it's needed. As everyone has been saying, your goal should be to set up crucible/stax ASAP. The welders/shamans/spheres help you play around drain. I've been flirting with the idea of putting titan in the deck, as it really does need a BOMB to tinker for. I cut the ITEOCs and such from the deck, as I think it's too narrow. The deck already has consistency issues, adding conditional cards would hurt the deck even more.

My problem with the deck is that sometimes you just draw ass (think 4-5 mana sources, shaman, and sphere) and are forced to mulligan. It makes me want to run actual draw, but then it puts a huge stain on your manabase, as you now need to rely on shops AND moxen. Not to mention, casting the draw likely means you wasted a turn not dropping a lock piece. Plus, it has a pretty hard time vs. slaver piloted by a good player. I have no idea how to address this issue, as game 1, they have a natural advantage, and now, they have upwards of 3 echoing truths postboard to deal with whatever you decide to bring in.

-Bob

[vroman]

Im not entirely sure why Strategic Planning would be good, but if it is worth considering, wouldnt the new instant Telling Time be strictly better?

as for goblin lore, its a very powerful card, but my main concern is that its much harder to dig you out of a bad situation than bazaar.
in order to get a reasonable benefit from it you need atleast one of:
uba mask (ideally)
a full grip (this is just blind luck scenario though)
welder w expendable artifacts in play
crucible (minimal benefit)
b-ring (if you need threshold bad)

although seeing 4 new cards in hand/yard for 2 mana is amazing, random discard can at times be disastrous. my conclusion was that situations where the card was useful were too conditional, when every other card in the deck has some function in nearly any gamestate. the extra red cost is also taxing. bazaar is vastly superior. bazaar is really an underestimated card. if you can learn how to use it properly, you dont even need squee or uba engine to abuse it. just having welder/crucible is worth it, plus the ability to cycle through dead cards when the board fills up w chalices and spheres or youve drawn some excess mana. Id srongly consider throwing bazaar in 5cstax as a 1of to crop for. bazaar is absolutely how ubastax beats other stax. being able to turn the inevitable dead draws into relevent threats rules the day, even w the strict loss in card advantage.

[Machinus]

Impulse is much better than Telling Time. However, putting cards into the graveyard is a useful effect because it has synergy with other cards in Stax that use the graveyard. Crucible, Welder and Will work well with it.

[Moxlotus]

Has anybody found that playing against Drain.dec on the draw is rough without Wires?  Take this example:

opp:  island, mox
me: mana, lock piece that isn't stack
opp island
me: lock piece.  opp drain even if lock piece #1 was trinisphere, sor, or chalice

I've always liked Roland's theory that he had 4 cards for the draw (tangles) and 4 for the play (spheres).  I would work to try to up those numbers by cutting other stuff, but I have always loved Wire in the Drain matchup.

[Smmenen]

Think about that. What is it that you are welding back?

Rarely anthing, really. Welder is primarily used to perfor the old switcharoo with your opponents'  artifacts, which hardly seems good enough. I needed to make room in my build, and cut the 4th Welder to make room for the second Shaman, which is far, far better. I've even gone on record stating that ' Welder sucks in stax'.

Someone make a decklist without Welders, and let's see how it does. 

We already have Kevin Cron won SCG Syracuse in February with no Welders.  Go to SCG and look it up.  He then got 9th in Chicago in April and I got 9th in Richmond without any Welders.  Matt Morrison ran zero or 2 and got 2nd in Chicago with CronStax. 

I don't know why this is so surprising.

[Bram]

Seconded.

I wouldn't soon cut Welders altogether from my list; that's why I still have three. It's important to realise, I think, that Welder is just not as crucial a card in Stax as it is in ControlSlaver. Sure, it's still a decent tool. It gets rid of some of your opponents' stuff, but in that regard it's hardly ever useful early on (nothing in the 'yard yet). And since you really can't cast early TFK's (since you should have been using those turns to setup your lock and as such should hardly ever be able to free up 2U), it really doesn't do much for your own early game plan, either. Much like TFK, it is a (useful) mid to late game tool rather than an unmissable lock component. Turn 1 Welder really isn't a solid play most of the time, and usually you end up doing little more than beating your opponent with it early on. More often than not, I'll simply use Welder to speed up my clock once I manage to find Triskelion. As such, I think three welders are sufficient.

Less importantly, Welders actually make you ControlSlaver matchup worse (thuoh I immediately concede this is hardly an argument for cutting them).

Have you tested Thoughtcast?

No. I'm sort of apprehensive, but interested enough to give it a try.

[Juggernaut GO]

Welder also blocks goblin lackey like a champion, end of story.

[Clown of Tresserhorn]

However, putting cards into the graveyard is a useful effect because it has synergy with other cards in Stax that use the graveyard. Crucible, Welder and Will work well with it.

It also makes opposing welders better against you. The reason welders were amazing vs. uba stax was because uba stax put artifacts in the yard via bazaar. 5c stax really has no need to abuse welder, so randomly putting artifacts in the yard can be a bad thing.

Also, I wouldn't say impulse is strictly better than telling time. It's only strictly better if you want 1 of the top 4 cards. What if your top three was stack/welder/land? I still don't think any are as good as top though. You still get to dig, and it's a permanent.

Less importantly, Welders actually make you ControlSlaver matchup worse (thuoh I immediately concede this is hardly an argument for cutting them).

BUT, it makes your gifts matchup better. Stax has all the right tools to bring Gifts to the late game. The only issue it has is the early tinker play, and Welder counters this just fine, while also helping you play around counters.

-Bob

[Liam-K]

Welder is randomly good, but also randomly absolute trash.  I'm starting to think that less than four and more than none is correct.

Smmenen's list of what we weld is incomplete though.  First of all, and it's a big one, is his synergy with mox monkey.  Destroy any artifact for 1 mana, and you can be pretty sure they'll have a mox in the yard to work with too.

The next important weld target is Trike.  Getting counters back is a lifesaver sometimes.  I think builds packing triskelion have a better arguement for high welder counts.

Lastly, you can scoff at welding chalices, but it's tech.  If you have an active stack and a chalice 0 down, and draw into moxes, saccing chalice to the stack, unloading your moxes, and welding the chalice back in is a play I really like.  If you're running null rod you can pull similar stunts to get some use out of your artifact mana for a turn.



Razormane masticore has his place, but I don't think that place is the maindeck.  He's good, especially against null rod, but triskelion is pretty much always better.

[Sean Ryan]

One thing this discussion is missing is a more in depth consideraion of the metagame and matchups.  The argument over Welders and those card choices outside "the core" are highly dependant upon the metgame.  Another issue is that Stax has developed at least 3 distinct variants: 

a) Chang Stax

Welders (3-4)
TfK
Tangle Wire
Titan

b) Cron/Meandeck Stax

Welder (0-2)
Chalice
tutors - no draw
lower mana curve with a phillosophy of turn more turn 1 lock peices

c) Uba stax

Bazaar
Uba Mask
Welders
Mono Red


Each Stax variant has proved itself successful in the past at the highest level of competition.  However, one variant should be most successful in a paticular metagame, against specific matchups and hate.  Finding which build is best under the present set of conditions is what we should be focusing on.

An example of this involves the debate between Chang Stax with Welders and Wires and Meandeck Stax without Welders and Chalices.  Prior to Chang winning the championship I thought that Meandeck provided a more objectivly superior deck design.  However, at that time Welders and wires provided the tools neccassry for that metagame.  Specifically, they answered a resolved Colossus better than the Meandeck build could.  Welders and Wires also were very strong in the mirror which was out in numbers. 

At the present time, I think a combination of Chang stax and Meandeck builds are the best.  I agree with Clown and Liam K, that we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater, 2-3 Welders is probally right.  From the Meandeck side, using Tutors/Bombs over draw and having as many turn 1 threats as possible should be considered.

To summarize, I think we should try to flesh out the expected field a bit better, and then focus on what choices improve those  matchups.

Thanks
Sean   
 

[Smmenen]

It's really hard to say though. 

I think that if someone could build an Uba Stax list with lots of colors, you would have a real monster on your hand.  Uba Stax is so self-abusive to ist own manba base because it doesn't need to rely on its mana base.  It can go nuts with Welder and Bazaar alone or other silly cominbations of cards.  Null Rod is a total beating, arguably the best lock component in the game next to Trinisphere. 

What if we tried Uba Stax with Mox Diamond, and cut the rings and the mountains and played Gemstones and Cities, and cut some more chaff for some more tutors like DT, Seal, Vamp, and balance? 

[vroman]

mox diamond is unplayable in ubastax, bc w uba you dont want to draw a card that requires a certain other card in hand, if you are stuck drawing one card at a time and only keep it for that turn.
as for 5cuba in general, Id like to see a list. Ive tried many versions, but ubazaar engine is vital and takes up all the slack slots.

[Tin_Mox5831]

Well, I've been working on a list for the last couple of weeks, so here goes:

(Warning: There are some wierd card configurations in here, I hope Stephen doesn't get riled by them!  :lol:)

Mishra's Workshop x 4
City Of Brass x 4
Gemstone Mine x 4
Wasteland x 4
Bazaar Of Baghdad x 2
Barbarian Ring x 2
Strip Mine x 1
Mox Jet x 1
Mox Ruby x 1
Mox Pearl x 1
Mox Emerald x 1
Mox Sapphire x 1
Black Lotus x 1
Mana Vault x 1
Mana Crypt x 1
Sol Ring x 1
Null Rod x 2
Uba Mask x 3
Tangle Wire x 3
Smokestack x 4
Crucible Of Worlds x 4
Chalice Of The Void x 4
Goblin Welder x 4
Imperial Seal x 1
Demonic Tutor x 1
Crop Rotation x 1
Vampiric Tutor x 1
Trinisphere x 1
Tinker x 1

As I said, I've been tweaking this list for about two weeks now. It's still a pretty rough list, but I like the way it's played in testing. It features the utility of 5C Stax' tutor base and the amazing Uba Mask. The addition of the Rotation and the three black tutors allows me to play the deck's two Bazaars very consistently. (Vroman: I sorta stole your idea of playing fewer Bazaars from an earlier post. I hope that's cool.) The deck also runs a full complement of most relevant lock components as well as the inclusion of two very powerful fringe cards: Tangle Wire and Null Rod. I use the term "fringe card" due to the number of decks that don't run them, not their power level. Both cards are huge. Tangle Wire allows you to play from behind and also serves to absolutely ravage Mana Drain decks as well as Fish, which seems poised to resurface. Null Rod is by far the most powerful hoser in the current Vintage environment. Period. The 5-Color mana configuration of this deck allows for interesting sideboard options never before available to UbaStax, such as the omni-useful Meddling Mage and the X/1 machine gun, Darkblast. It also allows you to sneak gems like ITEOC and Chains back into your deck if needed. It's a little bit more skill-intensive than other 5-Color Stax lists I've seen and played, so hopefully a better player than I will pick up this idea. Honestly, I think that Vroman's UbaStax is a more stable deck, but this may be a valid choice simply due to it's flexability. Feel free to comment and suggest possible changes. Also, don't hesitate to put this monstrosity together and play some games. Just please relay your results if you do.

Thanks for the time.

Later,
Dave

[Bram]

OK, after some heavy duty testing last night, I can say that I am not impressed by my own suggestion of Strategic Planning (Chalice 2 is quite common. I can see in in Chang Stax though). While this problem does not arise for Thoughcast, it is pretty much inferior to TFK in every other way. I lost count of the times I wish the Thoughtcast I had on had was a Thirst. Also: Will is pretty much useless. A Regrowth in that slot would do pretty much the same thing 90% of the time, and a turn quicker to boot. I'm not saying play Regrowth, though. I've decided to cut the Will to free up a slot for Imperial Seal which really is the mutt's nuts in my build. I have yet to encouter a situation where I feel 3 is too few Welders.

[Liam-K]

I've toyed with the idea of putting more colours in uba stax before.  I run into problems when I start looking for cards to cut in order to make room for the new colours.  Wheel is really the only card in my list I could stand to lose (jens is out for an ancient tomb right now, so far I like it).

And mox diamond under uba mask = lose a draw.  Bad call.



edit: I just had a really interesting though.  Has anyone ever tested Necro in 5c?  I know 3 black can be hard to put together, but it seems like it might be pretty slick, and you're almost immune to necrolock with smokestack.  I'm not sure if this is a terrible or brilliant idea.

[sean1i0]

I really love the idea of 5c Uba Stax.  I've been trying to figure out lately which Stax is better (5c or uba); while 5c stax does have all the broken non-artifact spells, it has a really hard time with sustaining a draw engine.  Because of that the two choices for the deck are (a) a draw engine that is suboptimal and will cost you tempo in some situations or (b) no draw engine, but rather a "card finder" engine with all the tutors.  However, neither of these really seem to be the best possible solution.  That's what I really like about ubastax:  It can gain ENORMOUS card advantage with either bazaar + welder or uba mask + bazaar.  It can absolutely swamp the board with lock components quickly.

So, now I'm going to give my 2 cents about the 5cubastax list posted.  First off, I think it would be worth taking out the 3rd Crucible.  I have never had trouble finding it in 5c stax and with the addition of Imperial Seal, that should be even more of a non-issue.  I think that it could be easily dropped to find room for something else, such as the 3rd null rod or the 4th tangle wire.  Also, I think that it would be possible to do something like -1 Gemstone Mine, -1 Barbarian Ring, +1 Tolarian Academy, +1 Bazaar.  Or, if a 3rd bazaar is not needed/wanted, then you could add back the 4th gemstone mine or add in another lock component as I suggested before.

[vroman]

Mishra's Workshop x 4
City Of Brass x 4
Gemstone Mine x 4
Wasteland x 4
Bazaar Of Baghdad x 2
Barbarian Ring x 2
Strip Mine x 1
Mox Jet x 1
Mox Ruby x 1
Mox Pearl x 1
Mox Emerald x 1
Mox Sapphire x 1
Black Lotus x 1
Mana Vault x 1
Mana Crypt x 1
Sol Ring x 1
Null Rod x 2
Uba Mask x 3
Tangle Wire x 3
Smokestack x 4
Crucible Of Worlds x 4
Chalice Of The Void x 4
Goblin Welder x 4
Imperial Seal x 1
Demonic Tutor x 1
Crop Rotation x 1
Vampiric Tutor x 1
Trinisphere x 1
Tinker x 1

this list has no ancestral recall, no balance, no fastbond, no moxmonkey and no win condition, except b-ring which doesnt belong in 5c due to mana problems. cutting out half the bazaar draw engine to add fancy tutors, w nothing special to tutor for, is a strict downgrade from both ubastax and changstax. try again.

[Thug]

I have been toying around with Stax as well, moving from 1 version to another, going back, and trying in between.

I first started with my own version of 5c-stax: only 1 welder, draw-sevens and cute cards like H.Recall
Then I moved to pretty standard 5-c stax. 3 Welders 2 Shaman, no real draw, lots of tutors etc. No big artifacts because I ran no thirst.

I think Welder is pretty bad without thirst, and thirst is only mediocre without welder. Together they will win you games, but running Both Time vault and Flame Fusillade will also win you games. (I actually tried this in 5-c stax, and with all the tutors you can pull it off pretty easy, and the Vault isn't that bad if you run some Wires.)

One thing I tried to improve the Welders was add a single Bazaar, which made a difference, and showed the power of welder + bazaar, which makes Uba-Stax a force to be reckoned with.

But I still wasn't thrilled by how the deck performed. So I decided to make a mix of 5-c and Uba Stax, and this is what rolled out, and what felt like the best Stax version I had tested so far:

Lands:

4 Mishra's Workshop
3 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Tolarian Academy
3 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine

Artifacts:

7 Solomox
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault

3 Chalice
3 Uba Mask
3 Crucible
4 Smokestack

1 Trinisphere
1 Null Rod
1 Karn
1 Duplicant
1 Titan

Coloured Spells:

4 Welder
1 Shaman

1 Vampiric
1 Demonic

1 Ancestral
1 Tinker

1 Crop
1 Choke

1 Balance

---

With 5 Red spells the ring seems good enough, but a Darkblast might also be nice in its spot, because It's pretty good with Bazaar.

I don't like Fastbond, as it hardly helps when you're behind. The best thing it does is decide games in which you're slightly in front in a single turn. But most of these games would be yours without the Fastbond too.

Imperial might be pretty good with all the 1-of's, but I couldn't find room for it and didn't want to run it over Choke or Null Rod, since those cards win a lot of games.

I wouldn't go below 3 Crucible, it's just to good. If I had 1 more spot it would be either Imperial Seal or Crucible #4.

---

I don't claim (or think) this is the optimal list for a 5-c Ubastax, but I think it's a good list to start with.

Koen

[Imsomniac101]

you are missing 4x Wasteland + 1x Strip Mine

[vroman]

4 Mishra's Workshop
3 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Tolarian Academy
3 Bazaar of Baghdad

Artifacts:

7 Solomox
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault

3 Chalice
3 Uba Mask
3 Crucible
4 Smokestack

1 Trinisphere
1 Null Rod
1 Karn
1 Duplicant
1 Titan

4 Welder
1 Shaman

1 Vampiric
1 Demonic

1 Ancestral
1 Tinker

1 Crop
1 Choke

1 Balance

this list makes more sense. I would change:
-1 choke
-1 karn
-1 titan
-1 tinker
+1 crucible
+1 chalice
+1 null rod
+1 fastbond

Id also try time walk, imperial seal or darkblast in there somewhere, maybe instead of 4th crucible. overall I still dont think this is an improvement on monoR

[RThomas]

Maybe I've completely glossed over this discussion in the past, but since the issue of card draw has been brought up, I have to ask: How good is Grafted Skullcap?  It's just as useful as Bottled Cloister, as Bram suggested, but it also discards the uncasted cards, providing Welder with some bait.  Granted, it's not that marginal of a difference, but is the card worth looking at?

I've seen Skullcap in some European stax decklists in the past (admittedly small tourneys, but still small significance):

http://morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=311 (7th)

http://morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=296 (3rd)

http://morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=288 (2nd)

[Blitzbold]

Maybe I've completely glossed over this discussion in the past, but since the issue of card draw has been brought up, I have to ask: How good is Grafted Skullcap?  It's just as useful as Bottled Cloister, as Bram suggested, but it also discards the uncasted cards, providing Welder with some bait.  Granted, it's not that marginal of a difference, but is the card worth looking at?

Grafted Skullclap was broadly used quite some time ago. The problem with it is that it includes a big out for the opponent who has access to either Hurkyl's Recall or Rebuild, as gettng all your artifacts bounced with the cap's eot trigger on the stack is very likely game over.

[Bram]

Arthur Tindemans was responsible for the deck he called MUD, or mono-brown. It was basically all-artifact Stax and he used Skullcap for draw. It did not even play Welder, which was the topic of a real-life discussion I had with Smmenen in Antwerp.

[vroman]

skullcap is obsolete. Id rather play bazaar, even wo uba mask, over a 4 cost drain target. if anything play anvil of bogardan for half the price.

as for ubastax, if I were going to add colors, Id only consider just running taigas and cropper and fastbond, as both of those are extremely synergistic w the crucible + bazaar engine. theres simply not enough free slots to throw in all the brokeness of 5c wo severely depleting the lock components.

[sean1i0]

Okay, then since vroman tends to think that 5cubastax can't happen, and, in my mind, if anyone knows the intricacies of ubastax, it's vroman, then I have a question for the community.  I've been pondering this question for some time now and haven't been able to arrive at a conclusive answer yet; since this thread is about perfecting 5c stax, I haven't brought it up yet, but it seems that before we concentrate our efforts on perfecting it any further, we should ask ourselves this question:  Is 5c stax inherently stronger than, equal to, or weaker than ubastax?

Again, it just seems like folly to attempt to perfect a version of stax if we were to decide that it's just naturally worse than another type of the same deck.  Only once we've reached a conclusion on that does it seem that we could continue on with perfecting the stax archetype.

[FiReiSFuN]

From my own testing and talking with other Stax players, it seems to me like UbaStax is a more powerful version.  I think one of the reasons is that it doesn't have to rely on an extremely rickety mana-base, as 5c does.  Furthermore, the Uba/Bazaar draw engine is sick and devastating.  Drawing 3 cards a turn with no drawback is an absolute game-winner.  Finally, I think that the possibility for a Welder/Mask lock is too good to ignore.

With all of that being said, I'd also say that the main reason that UbaStax isn't more popular, is that even in a proxy friendly environment, it is basically impossible to build.  4 Bazaars and 4 Workshops, on top of the P9, is often too much for people to lay their hands on.

I'm still committed to refining 5c at this point, and am willing to see how far it can go before totally dismissing it.

[Tha Gunslinga]

With all of that being said, I'd also say that the main reason that UbaStax isn't more popular, is that even in a proxy friendly environment, it is basically impossible to build.  4 Bazaars and 4 Workshops, on top of the P9, is often too much for people to lay their hands on.

I don't think it's unreasonable.  The stuff you need is 8x power, 4x Bazaar, 4x Shop.  If you own power, you can just proxy the Shops/Bazaars, assuming you're in a 10-proxy environment.  If you own Bazaars or Shops, all you need is two pieces of power and you can proxy the rest.  Obviously if you own neither power nor Bazaars/Shops you're pretty much out of luck, but a pretty sizeable portion of Vintage players have a set of power, and it's often possible to borrow a set of Shops or Bazaars from someone who's not playing them.

[pyr0ma5ta]

I was not aware that Ubastax plays Recall or Time Walk.  That brings the total to 6 Jewels, 4 shops, and 4 bazaars.  Not everyone has power, though, Mr I-Have-Everything-And-A-Half Slinga.  I'm new to Vintage, but I do have 2 beat moxes and I'm hoping to win some pretty ones when I do start playing tourneys after the new year. 

On topic, however, I've been testing 5c Stax and even with 4 Cities, 4 Gemstones, and a set of moxes in the deck, I can't consistently find the colored mana to cast my Thirst for Knowledge or DT or whatever brokenness is in my hand.  The addition of 4 Bazaars to crowd up the land drops cannot help that, and so I can't see 5c Uba happening unless some serious compromises are made to drop some broken colored stuff.  Just my uninformed 2 cents.

EDIT: Since I'm currently playing CS and considering Gifts, I just wanted to confirm with Stax players that CS absolutely crushes Stax?  Or am I just not playing Stax correctly?  The stax build I'm playing has no chalices but 3 1-balls, no chains or iteoc in the main.  The numbers I'm getting are something like 85-15 game 1 in favor of CS.  Since I'm still thinking about sideboards, I don't have any numbers on that.  Finally, how does the Gifts-Stax matchup break down?

[FiReiSFuN]

@Tha Gunslinga:  I was leaning more towards a non-proxy environment... but also realize that every card in Stax is either rare or restricted.  Laying out the cash for Stacks, Spheres, Mines, Cities, etc. is a bit too much for some people...

@Pyromasta:  I haven't tested the Stax/CS matchup explicitly, that is the next phase of my testing gauntlet before Rochester.  I have, however, tested Stax (w/no TFK) against a MD Gifts-ish build (with Scrolls, Colossus and Tendrils as finishers).  With cards like ITEOC and Chains maindeck, you are hugely favored game 1.  Often you can win even without dropping either of these cards, as 2sphere nullifies the Tendrils plan, Chalices prevent them from going too nuts in the first few turns, and a resolved Smokestack with either of those two out basically means game over.  Gifts just doesn't have the permanent base to feed to Smokestack, and losing dual lands often hampers their ability to win off the top with a Gifts.  Rebuild is a BIT of a concern, as is Echoing Truth, but as these are (usually) 1-ofs, I don't feel that they are a HUGE concern... you can often lock-out the game before they can tutor for, or otherwise access these cards (ie, via a resolved Gifts).  After boarding, Stax can bring in Choke and even Null Rod, to really up the possibility of dropping a Turn 1 bomb...  I try to up the amount of 2-drop lock pieces I have, so that I can drop one first turn, have it countered, drop a chalice afterwards, then follow up with another bombs turn 2.  If Gifts CAN counter all of those threats, it usually means that they are playing off the top... and I like Stax's chances when it comes to topdecking.  After Gifts boards, they usually have access to at least 2 Hurk's, and 2 RnR.  This is where the importance of resolving an Enchantment lock piece comes in, as even builds of Gifts that add a Tundra for Sacred Ground rarely have any kind of enchantment removal out of the board.  I tend to mulligan pretty aggressively going into game 2, because of the absolute importance of threatening the Gifts player on turns 1 and 2.

Of course, many Gifts players have no idea how to play the Stax matchup properly, and as such you DEFINATELY have the advantage.  Even in my testing it took at least 6 to 7 games with me on the Gifts side to learn what Stax can be allowed to resolve and what can't, and to figure out what you are looking for in opening hands.  I certainly believe that many players don't test even that much, let alone to learn the intricacies of post-boarded games.

After I'm done testing against CS, I'll post my results.

EDIT:  Thought I'd tack on some food for thought.  Is anyone still considering using Suppression Field?  Better yet, has anyone tested using it?  I bring this up in conjunction with the CS testing I'm going to be doing.  It seems like SF would be a good SB card to bring in... like if you can constrict the CS mana base (by making Fetches cost 2, and using Chalice0) and make Welder and Big artifact activations cost 2 more also, you might be able to slow them down enough turns to establish a lock.  Furthermore, Null Rod seems like a winner here, against Bus/Trike/Slaver.  Are NR and SF the sideboard Turn 1/2 bombs that Stax needs to beat CS?