Uba Stax: The time is now

[Magnus76]

Hi,
I made top4 in the Swedish Vintage Nationals with the following list:

CREATURES (5)
4 Goblin Welder
1 Duplicant

   ARTIFACTS (32)
3 Null Rod
3 Sphere of Resistance
2 Uba Mask
4 Smokestack
4 Tangle Wire
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Crucible of Worlds
1 Trinisphere
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Black Lotus

  LAND (23)
3 Barbarian Ring
4 Mountain
1 Rishadan Port
1 Mishra’s Factory
1 Tolarian Academy
4 Mishra’s Workshop
1 Strip Mine
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Wasteland

   SIDEBOARD
2 Slice and Dice
1 Duplicant
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Granite Shard
3 Viashino Heretic

Some comments:
Null Rod
This card is STILL really good, I would say. Now, there were only two Flash decks and one Ichorid (as far as I saw) in the tournament, against which Null Rod is really poor. There is still a large amount of Combo that run even Petal as important mana acceleration. Against other WS/Stax (at least four other WS-decks) Null Rod is the best card in the deck I think. They usually have two (with Null Rod worthless) 4/4 that are supposed to deal with your welders/moxes. With Null Rod this means that you will likely win the welder and permanent war. Few Stax Players, at least in Sweden, have realized the greatness of the next card, which works great with and without Null Rod:

Duplicant
Weak against Flash and Ichorid but I saw neither until the semi-final. A house against GAT, Dreadnought, WS/Stax and Fish.

Uba Mask
I felt I had too many 4cc spells under Spheres and Null Rod so I cut the Uba number down to two. Sure, they are good when you draw and can play them, but it feels more important to get down soft locks fast. I want to minimize bad starting hands with a lot of 4cc and no WS. It is easy to get down a 2cc or 3cc spell during the first turn but it is much more difficult with 4cc spells. I feel that a total of six 4cc (4 smokestacks and 2 Uba) is the right number, but maybe they should be a 3/3-split.

Tangle Wire
Were great all day. Best against GAT but also put slight pressure on combo (limits the time window to cast Rebuild to own upkeep which is of course less optimal).

Today I would change 2 of the Granite Shard in the board to Slice and Dice, they are necessary against Flash and Ichorid, yet not optimal.

[Dralock]

OH MY GOD R/G IS BACK ON TOP, THIS DECK IS DEAD!!!!!!!

Heh, just had to put some insanity in to the thread, you guys were getting too dry.

I like the swedish nationals finish, seems pretty good.

What are you going to do vs crazyman goyf? It takes a bit more than land disruption and smokestack to get around. (previous sentence included to allow first sentence dumbassery)

[Bill Copes]

What are you going to do vs crazyman goyf?

Duplicant recursion with welder is a start.

[robtherich]

Has anyone thought about Caltrops as a sideboard option against Ichorid?  Reason being, Caltrops stops all Ichorids and Narcomoebas and in multiples it is GG.  Caltrops is also not a dead card against fish and G/R beats and other random.dec(s)  that are out there.

Another nice side to caltrops is it can be workshopped (is an artifact) so, unlike slice and dice or pyroclasm, it functions through your own soft locks. (and welderable)

If an Ichorid player gets rid of your initial leyline, then the matchup goes back to a preboard situation since you have no alternative to hardcast another.

Just for clarity: I am not saying to board this in as a substitute for Leyline or remove Leyline from the sideboard. Leyline helps in other matchups i.e. Flash and the mirror that makes it indispensable.  I am talking more in regards to the side board discussion on page 1. 

For Ichorid: It was mentioned before that you would sideboard the following: -4 Crucible, -4 Uba, -4 Smokestack and replace with
+4 Leyline, +4 Powder Keg, +1 Karn, + 2 Sphere, +1 Words of War

Powder keg was referenced to kill opposing zombie tokens, as well as Warren's tokens.  However outside of tokens powder keg takes time to kill anything else off, and in regards to Ichorid it is the quick clock that an Uba Stax player is most concerned about.  Caltrops begins to work immediately and you won't blow up any of your own artifacts in the process.

Caltrops does work both ways.  It will kill your welder if you swing but against Ichorid a sacrifice like relying more on Barbarian Ring in order to reduce the opponents tempo is worth it. 

[Skadrian]

and caltrops even stops the sliver kill from flash, so it is also usefull in that matchup

[punki]

on caltrops:

isn't ensnaring bridge just better?

It stops every attack ichorid, zombies, slivers, akroma, goblins
you only need one (and an almost empty hand, what i usually have witrh this deck after a few turns)

[robtherich]

Ensnaring bridge will work well but it is a question of how quick your opponent goes off.  In the first three turns, unless you have a hand full off moxen, you are not going to be able to dump everything out of your hand.  With a non workshop hand it is very plausible you are only casting one card a turn. 

So early game I see caltrops as more effective, slowing him down, mid game still being able to lock out tokens and Ichorids with a second Caltrops.  And as for a dread return for a golgari troll or something, a single permanent is easier to deal with than the multiple small creatures they have.  Sacrificing 3 creatures to bring out 1 plays into Uba Stax gameplan.

[yespuhyren]

Has anyone thought about Caltrops as a sideboard option against Ichorid?  Reason being, Caltrops stops all Ichorids and Narcomoebas and in multiples it is GG.  Caltrops is also not a dead card against fish and G/R beats and other random.dec(s)  that are out there.

Another nice side to caltrops is it can be workshopped (is an artifact) so, unlike slice and dice or pyroclasm, it functions through your own soft locks. (and welderable)

If an Ichorid player gets rid of your initial leyline, then the matchup goes back to a preboard situation since you have no alternative to hardcast another.

Just for clarity: I am not saying to board this in as a substitute for Leyline or remove Leyline from the sideboard. Leyline helps in other matchups i.e. Flash and the mirror that makes it indispensable.  I am talking more in regards to the side board discussion on page 1. 

For Ichorid: It was mentioned before that you would sideboard the following: -4 Crucible, -4 Uba, -4 Smokestack and replace with
+4 Leyline, +4 Powder Keg, +1 Karn, + 2 Sphere, +1 Words of War

Powder keg was referenced to kill opposing zombie tokens, as well as Warren's tokens.  However outside of tokens powder keg takes time to kill anything else off, and in regards to Ichorid it is the quick clock that an Uba Stax player is most concerned about.  Caltrops begins to work immediately and you won't blow up any of your own artifacts in the process.

Caltrops does work both ways.  It will kill your welder if you swing but against Ichorid a sacrifice like relying more on Barbarian Ring in order to reduce the opponents tempo is worth it. 

Yes, I have tried it, and used it at the last tourney against flash/ichorid.  Was awesome.

[meadbert]

Against Ichorid the card that beats you is Bridge from Below.  As an Ichorid player I am far more worried about Ensnaring Bridge than Caltrops.

[Evol daN]

Has anyone thought about Caltrops as a sideboard option against Ichorid?  Reason being, Caltrops stops all Ichorids and Narcomoebas and in multiples it is GG.  Caltrops is also not a dead card against fish and G/R beats and other random.dec(s)  that are out there.

Another nice side to caltrops is it can be workshopped (is an artifact) so, unlike slice and dice or pyroclasm, it functions through your own soft locks. (and welderable)

Caltrops does work both ways.  It will kill your welder if you swing but against Ichorid a sacrifice like relying more on Barbarian Ring in order to reduce the opponents tempo is worth it. 

I thought about this card, but frankly there are better options... Bridge is mentioned below, and while this is better they both fail to protect you from Rebuild and Hurkyls in the Flash match.

In the Ichorid match you actually need 3 of these things down. the first only stops the initial onslaught.

They just say... ok i cant swing with my two 1/1 dudes, I guess I will dreadge one or two more turns, oh look there another Bridge from Below and a dude, now I can flash my Dread Return and run him over with 3/3 tokens.

To create a situation where this is not your fate you are required to hit +1 sphere for each Arbor Dryad he gets, the Shop, a wasteland to slow the Bazaaring, The first caltrops which only makes them tokens, the second caltrops that indeed stalls them, and a third Caltrops to shut them off.

That is a crazy list of conditions, not that delaying the game is not sometimes enough, I think there is better disruption that applies just as widely, maybe even wider.

[Evol daN]

Against Ichorid the card that beats you is Bridge from Below.  As an Ichorid player I am far more worried about Ensnaring Bridge than Caltrops.

this is exactly right... From the perspective of a dude that has only lost 3 games to Ichorid in 5 rounds. I focus all my attention on his Bridge from Below count and manipulate the game from there.

[robtherich]

I agree that Caltrops has its drawbacks, all I'm doing is making the qualitative argument that against Ichorid, the first few turns are the most important.  To me, the longer a game against Ichorid goes the more of a shot Stax has at winning.  So if I can weather the first few turns then I'm already on my way to winning. 

To sum up:  Ensnaring Bridge:  Does nothing against onslaught first few turns.  After that it is solid.
                  Caltrops:  makes Ichs, Moebas, Dryads irrelevant.  Fails to kill tokens without multiples and if opponent
                                can Dread Return through lock pieces can hit you with a sick swing.

A highly conditional play, if the match hinges so much on Bridge from Below then throw your own welder into the caltrops.

I don't want to drag this out, depending on someone's build, its a judgement call on when you believe you are the most vulnerable.  I feel its early, prior to many of the locks coming down.

[yespuhyren]

I should have mentioned that I was running Shop Aggro, so Bridge wasn't an option.  Running Ubastax, I've been running 3 MD Ensnaring Bridges for months now.

[madmanmike25]

Currently I have taken out the 2 Thorns and put in 2 Trikes.  The other options for these 2 slots are Dupes and Bridge.  I like that you can be proactive with the Trikes, not to mention that if you get lucky and cast it before Flash(or weld it) he takes care of those Slivers rather nicely.  Also its even more Welder hate against other Shop decks.  If more combo comes up to combat all the creature decks, then naturally the Thorns will go back in.

For me 4 Tanglewires are must vs. all those 'Goyfs and other critters.

Caltrops is a nice card vs. Ichorid, but I think Bridge is just far more versatile right now as a SB slot.

Mike

[meadbert]

Goyf's resurgence may change my mind on Tangle Wire.  When I posted a month or two ago about how bad wire was, there were 0 Goyf decks in my test gauntlet.  Now there are three or 4.

As an avid Ichorid player I can say that Trike is very annoying and he worries me far more than Duplicant.

The other card that is somewhat similar to Trike is Words of War.  That can tear up an Ichorid player over a few turns and it is a house against Fish, Slaver and most likely Goyf decks as well.

[yespuhyren]

Caltrops is a nice card vs. Ichorid, but I think Bridge is just far more versatile right now as a SB slot.

Mike

Bridge is an extremely versatile MD slot as a 3 of.  Trust me on this, its been working for years.  I would go back and find my original post but it was when Vroman started winning with it so I guess late 2004/5?

[fury]

Just one consideration about Ensnaring bridge. As the metagame has become aggro again, Stacks decks seem to be weak (Prison<aggro, generally speaking). But with Ensnaring bridge, UbaStacks prevent the opponent to attack. With bazaar of baghdad, the UbaStacks player has few cards in hand, so that a big goyf or ichorid cannot attack anymore. So Ensnaring bridge can be an side option.

On UbaStacks, I would consider it, since there is a lot of GaT in the metagame. The classic 5C build is quite strong as combos don't often play Rebuild to win. But I wonder of 9 sphere is really efficient, 5 is not enough ?

[yespuhyren]

Just one consideration about Ensnaring bridge. As the metagame has become aggro again, Stacks decks seem to be weak (Prison<aggro, generally speaking). But with Ensnaring bridge, UbaStacks prevent the opponent to attack. With bazaar of baghdad, the UbaStacks player has few cards in hand, so that a big goyf or ichorid cannot attack anymore. So Ensnaring bridge can be an side option.

Did you even read my post?  The exact reason you stated is why you should be playing 3x Bridge Main.  The meta is aggro, so to survive G1 it helps to play them MD. 

[fury]

Did you even read my post?  The exact reason you stated is why you should be playing 3x Bridge Main.  The meta is aggro, so to survive G1 it helps to play them MD. 

I forgot to mention that i was talking about the european meta, which is not yet so aggro as the american one.

[madmanmike25]

Quick update:

Yesterday I was feeling a bit masochistic and decided to test UbaStax against the R/G beats deck that won first place.  I don't know how it happend, but I won 4 out of 5 games. 

A few thoughts-
Tanglewire is good vs. aggro(duh) and right now I still prefer these MD over Bridge.  Not every deck is aggro-orientated.  I might be able to see a 2/2 split however, but probably not since Bridge doesn't interact as good with Stax as Tangle does.

Trike is awesome, recursion is even better though difficult because it's hard to get Welder active.

Vs. R/G beats, just don't play Mana Crypt, one game I won(established the lock) at 3 life and would have died if I had lost one more flip/roll.

CotV@1 on the play was HUGE.  No Tin Street, and they have a rough game ahead.  They can't even get their draw engine on line(clamp) to find him.

Vial on the play against me was HUGE as well.  I'm really surprised that there are not more Wastelands in the deck.   It's not like I always get Crucible out.

Sometimes even a Sphere on the play was enough to vastly increase my chances of winning the game.

Tin Street coming into play with Aether Vial was pretty useless.

Goyf was a 3/4 creature on average vs Uba.  They are the ones who have to hope to find Bolt and Seal.  Typically the 3 card types were critter, land, and artifact in both GY's.

A few times Magus hurt his Kird Apes, since Taiga is now a Mountain.  1/1's don't provide a decent clock.  Magus in general didn't do much against me(mono-red, again duh).  Turn 3 Magus is almost too late.  Turn 1 would be devastating, but not feasible.  Even a turn 2, if they were on the play, would be a pain but it typically came out 3rd turn.  I do like the fact that Magus doesn't interfere with Skyshroud Elite.

I'm not making any bold-statements based on 5 games however.  I'm going to test more today, I expect to lose more this time though since the odds are not in my favor.  Just thought I would put a ray of hope in other Stax players' day.  It's just that I was really surprised to win more than one game.  More later.

Mike