[Deck] The Tropical Storm (TTS)

[Mister Amazing]

Out of curiosity, what do I usually sideboard out against Mud / Mono Red ? How about GAT? Mirror Match?

[Negator]

I would like to share my list here to have some feedbacks. I'm a very old TPS player, that's why I had some difficulties to add green and Gush. My starting list was this:


// NAME : [T1] TPS
// CREATOR : Negator (magic-ville.com)
// FORMAT : Vintage
        1 Swamp
        2 Flooded Strand
        2 Island
        4 Polluted Delta
        4 Underground Sea
        1 Black Lotus
        1 Lotus Petal
        1 Mana Crypt
        1 Mana Vault
        1 Mox Jet
        1 Mox Sapphire
        1 Sol Ring
        1 Necropotence
        1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
        1 Ancestral Recall
        1 Chain of Vapor
        1 Hurkyl's Recall
        1 Mystical Tutor
        1 Necrologia (is better than you think)
        1 Vampiric Tutor
        2 Cabal Ritual
        2 Gush
        4 Brainstorm
        4 Dark Ritual
        4 Force of Will
        1 Demonic Tutor
        1 Imperial Seal
        1 Merchant Scroll
        1 Personal Tutor
        1 Time Walk
        1 Timetwister
        1 Yawgmoth's Will
        2 Tendrils of Agony
        3 Ponder
        4 Duress

I made the following changes:
-1 Personal Tutor
-1 Merchant Scroll
-1 Cabal Ritual
-1 Necrologia
-1 Underground Sea
-1 Swamp

+1 Flooded Strand
+1 Fastbond
+1 Ponder
+1 Tropical Island
+2 Gush

I kept the Bargain in because this card is just to good to be cut. No Tinker, no Memory Jar, no 11/11, no Emerald. I think Cabal Ritual is a lot better than Emerald, Tinker is weaker without it and I never liked Memory Jar. Additionaly, Cabal Ritual makes Bargain faster. Lotus Petal is still good with Will. What do you think about that list?[/u]

I agree with you hvndr3d y34r h3x for Chain of Vapor. This card is randomly good!

[M.Solymossy]

I see so many things in here that just make me frown!

About Cabal Ritual:  Most of the time when playing the deck (And I've played it religiously since before Indianapolis) I Brainstorm or Ponder back rituals, because they're usually not the best to have unless you have Necropotence, Timetwister, Tendrils, or Yawgmoth's Will in your hand.  Adding some more rituals to a gush tendrils list is just bogging it down with more situational cards just to have more Black Mana.  The deck is mostly Blue!   There isn't anything you wwould ever want BBBBB for.   

About Bargain:   it costs 6.  Your deck is full of things that cost less.  If you're casting Yawmgoths Bargain, shouldn't you just be tutoring for fastbond and casting Gushes?   I've yet to lose a game with TTS once the gushbond engine is going.  The deck is just THAT silly with Fastbond.

No red?  What is this?  There are WAY too many good cards to play with Red.  Empty The Warrens, Red Elemental Blast, Pyroblast, and Fire / Ice.  Red Blasts and ETW will give you a TON of game against Oath, and also against the other various blue decks that are popping up (Tyrant Blue, anyone?).  There is no reason not to run a sideboard with red blasts. 

Thoughtseize has always been terrible in gush decks, in my opinion.  Your number one gameplan should be to cast a bunch of gushes.  Lets be honest, it's better than casting rituals, because you're drawing cards, playing mana, and drawing more counterspells.   But this costs life, which you don't always have to give when people are playing Dark Illusions.   You're cutting yourself short a lot when you drop thoughtseize.   Duress x4 has usually been enough in all honesty, to push me ahead.

Tolarian Academy is aweful because it doesn't alternatively cast gush, and you frequently will find yourself without more than 1 artifact, and then it's just an island that gets hit by wasteland.

I'll just share my list, and you guys can critisize it:


Bananas: [20]
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
2 Island
3 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Black Lotus

Look Ma, I found it! [8]
3 Merchant Scroll
1 Impulse
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Imperial Seal

condoms: [11]
4 Force of Will
4 Duress
1 Repeal
1 Hurkyls Recall
1 chain of vapor

The Short Bus: [7]
1 Dark ritual
1 High tide
1 Fastbond
1 Timetwister
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Time Walk
1 Gifts Ungiven

Cheat: [13]
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Gush

the Weaponry:  [2]
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty The warrens


The backup plan [15]
2 Extirpate
3 Red Elemental Blast
1 Rebuild
1 Hurkyls Recall
3 Pithing Needle
1 Swamp
4 Dark Confidant

First are the things you'll notice about my list:

0 Thoughtseize:  for reasons defined above

0 Misdirection:  There isn't enough to misdirect anymore.  I'm not going to fill my deck with dead cards versus 80% of the field to SOMETIMES snag someone's ancestral recall.  I never did like fishing.

0 Mox Emerald  It only casts fastbond and regrowth out of the board.


This gets me to the cards in the deck:
only 3 merchant scrolls, and 1 impulse:   Impulse is instant speed, which is really good, and it is phenominal at digging for fastbond, will, or your missing piece.  It fits a different roll.  I know LSV from studying his gushTPS lists doesn't even like merchant scroll, and I myself am finding it a necessary evil. 

High Tide:  Sure it helps out your opponents that are playing blue, but usually you scroll for this when you're going for the throat.  It's nice to randomly have as it helps EOT Gifts.  It also does something Dark Ritual doesn't do, it gives you the possibility for blue mana. 

The sideboard:
Extirpate:  it's randomly good versus oath, and it's shown a lot of strength in combo mirrors, and against flash.  I choose not to play much ichorid hate, as the amount of people who play the deck at a largescale event arn't large enough to warrent inclusion, but this is really good at getting Ichorid's bridges.  Past that, you can race. 

The swamp + bobs actually come in for Gushes and fastbond if you're playing versus shops.  You become a bob tendrils deck.  Bobs also come in for some scrolls and other cards.

Impulse is really good as a 1 of as it digs for fastbond.  It really does help continue chains of spells.


That's it for now boys!

[XxtSundaybxX]

So I played this deck when it first came out and i played it at my local bluebell tourney if anyone is familiar...its usually a big shops meta. Anyway so i was running over everything but my only loss was too Workshop Aggro...bad matchup. However as someone above stated that shops are lowering in number due to TSOath and GAT i think this deck is a good choice. I am willing to take the loss to stax to steamroll everything else. It has been argued that Merchant scroll and Ponder do not go together, i am currently running 4 ponder and 3 merchant scroll. I am not completely convinced that they work well together because the only time i want to see a merchant scroll is if i have gush+bond engine out. Any other situation i would rather see a ponder, but scroll + gush ramps your storm which helps alot seeing as my list is very bomb light, only running Will, Twister, ToA and ETW and the tutors as well. Another thing i am unsure of is Imperial seal..i played it before but now i am unsure. And with the light artifact count im shaky on playing tinker + jar, since this deck rarely wins off draw 7's. Tinkering for Lotus has been a popular play for me lately in these slower combo lists. I am also running Regrowth...im not sold on it but it helps for recovery but its dead early game. However its good with lotus to add more storm and more mana. If anyone has any comments please lets hear them.

[M.Solymossy]

I sideboard regrowth to counteract decks that are heavy on duress effects sometimes.  Try that perhaps?

[Negator]

About Cabal Ritual:  Most of the time when playing the deck (And I've played it religiously since before Indianapolis) I Brainstorm or Ponder back rituals, because they're usually not the best to have unless you have Necropotence, Timetwister, Tendrils, or Yawgmoth's Will in your hand.  Adding some more rituals to a gush Tendrils list is just bogging it down with more situational cards just to have more Black Mana.  The deck is mostly Blue!   There isn't anything you would ever want BBBBB for.

There is something you don't understand in my deck. This is not a Gush Bond deck with Rituals, it's a TPS with Fastbond. Your plan is too kill you opponent, not to have fun with Fastbond.

Without Merchant Scroll (my build doesn't play them), you can only use the Gush engine most of the time after a Necro or a Twister (with Fastbond in play). When your tutor up for Fastbond, you really aren't sure to make 20 damages (if you have only one Gush in your hand). If you don't play Rituals, you take off cards that allow you to win with broken starting hands. With them, you deck is more aggressive and put pressure.

About Bargain:   it costs 6.  Your deck is full of things that cost less.  If you're casting Yawmgoths Bargain, shouldn't you just be tutoring for fastbond and casting Gushes?

No, no and no. If you have two rituals in hand, Bargain is a must. If you have one ritual, Necropotence is a must. If you have one Gush and Dark Ritual, Necropotence is a must. Why? Because with Necro you can draw into Fastbond kill and make it far better than with only one Gush. If you have two Gush, you really aren't sure to combo out (depends).

Fastbond just allow your deck to make Necro and Twister better, that's all. I think it's a bad idea to base your deck around it. More than one Merchant Scroll is most of the time a bad choice in the deck.

Additionaly, your deck is really bomb light. Bargain is a enormous bomb.

No red?  What is this?  There are WAY too many good cards to play with Red.  Empty The Warrens, Red Elemental Blast, Pyroblast, and Fire / Ice.  Red Blasts and ETW will give you a TON of game against Oath, and also against the other various blue decks that are popping up (Tyrant Blue, anyone?).  There is no reason not to run a sideboard with red blasts.

Lol. Pyroblast and Red Elemental Blast is the same card. In storm deck, you play Pyroblast. That's a good card, but I'm already playing green and 4 colors is too much for me. Fire/Ice? Please. I never wanted to have it in my hand! ETW is a nice card but I really prefer to Tendrils my opponent, really. That's a personal choice.

[hauntedechos]

On the topic of Regrowth:  I like Regrowth because it allows me to make silly plays like double Jar, Gifts and further allows me to recoup countered bombs/utility without having to play yawgmoths will.  The latter reasoning ties into what Nova13 was saying in concerns with Duress effects.


Haunted.

[M.Solymossy]

I had a really long response to Negator, but it got Deleted, so basically I'm just gunna say a few things.

first:  If your deck isn't a Gush deck, you said it yourself that it's TPS, why is it in the Tropical Storm thread?  It's TPS with Gush.
Second:  My deck is threat light because it's similiar to Probasco-Gifts.  I don't want to play 6 Rituals AND gush.  That floods the deck a ton.
Third:  I agree that Bargain is good, but it's not good in a gush build.  I'd rather just play a bunch of blue draw spells (Brainstorms, Ponder, etc) and set up my hand.

[Negator]

That's a pity...

You misunderstood me. Tropical Storm IS a TPS with Gush. You have to play it like TPS. And then if you have Fastbond in your hand or two Gush and a tutor, you may play it like a Gush deck. That's the strength of Fastbond.

[M.Solymossy]

That's a pity...

You misunderstood me. Tropical Storm IS a TPS with Gush. You have to play it like TPS. And then if you have Fastbond in your hand or two Gush and a tutor, you may play it like a Gush deck. That's the strength of Fastbond.

And you're misunderstanding what my list, and what the lists I've played, have encorporated.  Tropical Storm isn't TPS as much as Pitchlong wasn't Grimlong.   Sure, they're similar, but if you play your TTS list like TPS, you're going to lose more games that you should win, by pressing the deck too far.  I'll test your list when/if I have time, but I never liked having 4 Dark Rituals in a Gush list, let alone playing cabal rituals.

We'll have to agree to disagree, here.

[ErkBek]

TTS isn't really TPS with Gush b/c it plays much less mana, a less stable manabase, and has a poor shop matchup.

I don't care for Bargain in TTS much for 2 reasons. 1) costs 6 mana. 2) You often can't play it until turn 3 or later at which point your life is considerably lower. Don't let my views on it stop you from trying it, I never really gave it much of a chance.

[XxtSundaybxX]

I will agree that TTS isn't Gush TPS but you say that it has a less stable mana base and a poor shops matchup, so whats the advantage of playing TTS over Gush TPS?

[ErkBek]

I mispoke there. TPS has a good stax matchup. Gush TPS doesn't.

Neither Gush TPS or TTS have a what I'd consider a good stax matchup. Gush TPS' shop matchup might be slightly better, but TTS's steamlined play and improved matchups outside of shops are reason to play it.

[XxtSundaybxX]

Becker:

So you feel that TTS has a stronger matchup against the rest of the meta game than Gush TPS excluding Shops? Why do you feel this? I cant decide which deck i like better...like i said before i dont really like seeing merchant scroll in my hand unless i have a fastbond out, but when i do theyre nuts. TTS obviously runs more bombs but im not sure if i would be satisfied with Necro seeing as its not like long where you can go rit,rit,rit, tutor win. In theory gifts seems like it would be amazing if your playing regrowth, it has been testing well. Im just curious what your reasons are on why TTS is the better deck to play

[ErkBek]

So you feel that TTS has a stronger matchup against the rest of the meta game than Gush TPS excluding Shops? Why do you feel this?

Yes. The first page of this thread has a ton of discussion of Gush TPS vs. TTS. You said it yourself, the only time you like drawing Scroll is when you have Fastbond out. When you've got Fastbond out, every card is amazing. TTS is smoother, faster, and recovers from Countermagic faster then Gush TPS.

Necropotence is nuts, don't cut it. Be aggressive when you Necro, play it as you would in Super Long.

From the Super Long Primer:
Typically on the first Necropotence activation I take between 9 to 13 cards, depending on what cards are in my hand. I’ve found 5 to be the magic number to Necro to, since 5 life allows you to cast a black topdeck tutor twice or cast a one once, a Force of Will, and activate a fetchland. I rarely ever Necro right to five life (especially right away) as I typically base it on what cards are in my hand. The 5 life rule though is very helpful to keep in mind though when you’re opponent has a creature that will be attacking the following turn.

Here's my current list and SB plan btw (recent changes in bold, not reflected in the SB plan):

Land 13
1 Trop
3 Underground
2 Island
7 Fetches

Accel 11
1 Jet
1 Emerald
1 Sapphire
1 banana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
4 Dark Ritual
1 Fastbond
1 Lotus Petal

Control 1211
4 FoW
4 Duress
21 Thoughtseize
1 Hurkyl's
1 Echoing Truth

Kill 1
1 Tendrils

Draw/Fixers 13
1 Walk
4 BS
4 Ponder
4 Gush

Bombs/Tutors 1011
1 MT
1 DT
1 VT
1 Iseal
1 Necro
1 Will
1 Twister
1 Tinker
1 Jar
1 Ancestral
1 Wheel of Fortune

SB
3 Dark Confidant
1 Sundering Ben
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Extirpate
3 Hurkyl’s Recall
1 Swamp
1 Hydroblast (for destroying Magus of the Moon and Pryostatic Pillar)

GAT
-1 Hurkyl’s
-1 E Truth
+1 Titan
+1 Extirpate

Oath
-1 Hurkyl’s
+1 Extirpate

Stifle Aggro Control (no Chalices)
-1 Memory Jar
-1 Hurkyl’s
-1 Echoing Truth
-1 Duress
-1 Imperial seal
+1 Titan
+3 Confidant (the one match I'd like a 4th bob for)
+1 Swamp

Flash
-1 Tinker
-1 Jar (draw 7’s seem bad vs. the instant speed kill)
-1 Imperial Seal
-1 Hurkyl’s Recall (leave in Echoing Truth for Platinum Angel mostly)
-1 Timetwister
-1 Ponder when on the play / Gush on the draw
+4 Leyline
+1 Tormod’s
+1 Extirpate

Stax / Shop Aggro
-1 Imperial Seal
-1 Tinker
-1 Jar
-4 Duress (might leave some of these in on the play)
+3 Bob
+3 Hurkyl’s
+1 Swamp

I feel that the deck runs 1 too many Fows/Duress effects, but their really isn't a card that I want outside of splashing Red for Wheel (-1 Usea, +1 Volc, -1 Emerald, +1 Petal). With 12 disruption/protection spells there is a 12% chance you'll have 3 or more in your opener, cutting 1 would reduce this by ~1.5% percent, and would actual increase the odds of having just 1 or 2 in your opener. Those numbers really say I need to free up this slot for some sort of business.

I tried Scroll Rack in that slot and it sucked hard (cube influenced). The only other cards I can think of running there are Cabal Ritual, Petal, Windfall, EE, Scroll, Sensei's Top, Bargain, Desire, Lim-Dull's Vault, Gifts, Night's Whisper, LOA, Future Sight, Slaughter Pact, Pact of Negation, a single Confidant, a single Street Wraith, DSK, Titan, Regrowth, another island, and Frantic Search. All which suck.

Webster stated why Gifts probably wouldn't be that good in here, but neither of us have tested it....so give it a try.

[Purple Hat]

have you tried FOF in that extra disruption slot?

[Mister Amazing]

Is there any circumstance where I would want to side out Tinker AND DSC?

[ErkBek]

have you tried FOF in that extra disruption slot?

No because 4 mana without all the artifact accel isn't easy to come by.

[cane]

for the additional slot:

it has already been posted in this thread,
but I'm loving doomsday
it's very much win now, AND it gets cards out of the graveyard

here are some piles I use, nothing new or fancy though

gush pile:

petal
ancestral
lotus
will
tendrills


brainstorm pile (need 2 cards in hand):

lotus
ritual
will
tendrills
random


ponder pile (need U post ponder):

ancestral
lotus
ritual
will
tendrills

[SpaceGhost]

I feel that the deck runs 1 too many Fows/Duress effects, but their really isn't a card that I want outside of splashing Red for Wheel (-1 Usea, +1 Volc, -1 Emerald, +1 Petal). With 12 disruption/protection spells there is a 12% chance you'll have 3 or more in your opener, cutting 1 would reduce this by ~1.5% percent, and would actual increase the odds of having just 1 or 2 in your opener. Those numbers really say I need to free up this slot for some sort of business.

These numbers are not quite correct -- I only bring this up since this is what you seem to be forming your decisions.

If there are 12 disruption/protection spells there is about 13.5% chance you will see 3 or more in your opening seven.  Cutting this to 11, reduces the percent to 10.8% (almost 3%).   In any event, the probability of seeing 1 or 2 in the opening 7 with 12 cards is about 67.4%; whereas, with 11 cards the probability of seeing 1 or 2 is reduced very slightly to about 67%. 

However, I think the take home message is the same -- free up the slot for some business.

[ErkBek]

it has already been posted in this thread,
but I'm loving doomsday
it's very much win now, AND it gets cards out of the graveyard

I'm going to play Doomsday over the Wheel. 1 Doomsday will be perfect in here.

[XxtSundaybxX]

@ becker:

I am going back to playing necro and tinker/jar. I have yet to test gifts, and i can see where you say it doesnt seem like it belongs it just seems good in theory but more in Gush TPS since TTS is a little faster so you wont have as much time to cast it. Regrowth has been amazing though im not sure i want to cut it yet. I  opted not to play the wheel to play empty which has been amazing as well. Rather Ironically we have arrived at almost the exact same list, except im a little im considering running mox emerald over sol ring due to the 4x goyf im running on sideboard for the shops matchup, however sol ring helps out with draw 7's so i dont know. What are  you running echoing truth for? Empty?

Is Doomsday really a possibilty? I understand the concept, so how exactly does it work? The reason i was running regrowth was to recoup cards from the bin whether they were countered or lately i have been playing against oath and in response to a duress they like to brainfreeze me, and doomsday would completely solve both problems without needing to run another green card and doomsday is a bomb, regrowth is not.

[M.Solymossy]

With gush in hand, you can just Doomsday for Ancestral, Lotus, Will,Dark Ritual, Tendrils.

Gush, (drawing ancestral and lotus)  Play lotus.  Crack for blue, Recall, Drop one of the gush'ed lands, play Ritual, Will, Replay Lotus, Replay Ritual, and Play Tendrils.  That's storm 8, not counting any other things you played. Hell, you could even recall your opponent if need be.   That's just one of many  possibilities

[cane]

@13nova:

so glad you read the things i type and then try to make'm worse...

There's no need for this. Verbal Warning for flamebaiting.
-Godder

gush pile: DD (1), gush (2), petal (3), ancestral (4), lotus (5), will (6), petal (7), lotus (8), tendrills (9)

so if you used a lotus or ritual to cast the DD it's lethal without any help
not only does this offer an additional spell, also at the cost of less mana,
wich mean you can play it off a gushchain and godly brainstorm much more easely

[M.Solymossy]

Is there really ANY reason to try and bait me into a flamewar, cain?  Really?!

I just posted one very quick possible doomsday pile.  But really, doomsday is more skill-intensive than gifts ungiven, where you're given unlimited possibility to do the right split.

[ErkBek]

@ becker:

I am going back to playing necro and tinker/jar. I have yet to test gifts, and i can see where you say it doesnt seem like it belongs it just seems good in theory but more in Gush TPS since TTS is a little faster so you wont have as much time to cast it. Regrowth has been amazing though im not sure i want to cut it yet. I  opted not to play the wheel to play empty which has been amazing as well. Rather Ironically we have arrived at almost the exact same list, except im a little im considering running mox emerald over sol ring due to the 4x goyf im running on sideboard for the shops matchup, however sol ring helps out with draw 7's so i dont know. What are  you running echoing truth for? Empty?

Is Doomsday really a possibilty? I understand the concept, so how exactly does it work? The reason i was running regrowth was to recoup cards from the bin whether they were countered or lately i have been playing against oath and in response to a duress they like to brainfreeze me, and doomsday would completely solve both problems without needing to run another green card and doomsday is a bomb, regrowth is not.

Doomsday is a real possibility, yeah. Imagine a hand like:

Mystical/Vamp, Gush/Ponder/BS, Ritual, FoW, blue card

These come up a lot right? Typically I'm torn on what to do there and I usually just go for Necropotence since I don't want to go for a draw 7 and let my opponent rebuild. Often times I decide to wait a turn or 2 to just set up a lethal will so I can capitalize on my tenatively superior hand. Having Dday in the deck will provide a tight kill to tutor up in situations like this that occur frequently.
 
Dday will also be a huge threat out of the gates. If you have a Gush in hand comboing out is so simple, it's just Doomsday->Gush/BS->win. With Petal in the deck over Emerald this play and be set up off a ritual, lotus, Jet, or Petal on turn 2.

That said, I don't want to play 2 Doomsdays. Drawing 2 will always be the suck, the mana for Dday can b difficult to achieve, and Dday needs another card to work.

gush pile: DD (1), gush (2), petal (3), ancestral (4), lotus (5), will (6), petal (7), lotus (8), tendrills (9)

Minor nitpick on this pile. You can swap out Ancestral for Brainstorm to dodge Misdirection since you'll always have 2 cards to put back on top (from the Gush).

[Lemnear]

I'm confused about the whole ritual-thing ... do you really thinks that running Rituals to accelerate the deck into Draw 7 or Necro will fit in the Gushbond suit? I've tested a lot in field and dismiss the rituals for the sake of Scrolls + Ponder + Gush. I prefer to accelerate into will via Gushbond instead via Draw 7 and realized that playing Y'Will with a min. of 2 Gush in Grave (maybe accompanied with Scrolls) will create enought mana to tutor up and cast tendrills (don't forget about the fetchies in grave!). A second killoption is very useful against many decks trying to interrupt your "will-off", so I used ETW a long time and it never disapointed me, but I feel bad about the splash 'cause of the averange use of red: My SB with 4 Leylines/4 Predator/2 Flux and more doesn't need red to fight Staxxx. Now I'll try tinker/DSC since I'm positive 'bout protecting him by readding Misd. which I dropped in my pre. bulid. I'll post my testing-list right below...

3 Trop
3 Underground
2 Island
6 Fetches
1 Jet
1 Emerald
1 Sapphire
1 Pearl
1 Ruby
1 Black Lotus
1 Fastbond
4 FoW
4 Duress
2 Misdirection
1 Echoing Truth
1 Tendrils
1 DSC
1 Walk
4 BS
4 Ponder
4 Gush
4 Scroll
1 MT
1 DT
1 VT
1 Iseal
1 Will
1 Tinker
1 Ancestral
1 Regrowth
1 Twister

[hauntedechos]

I've just been fiddling with Doomsday in the list and it feels good to me.  I like the increase in threat density as well as the fact that it is a standalone win enabler.  Has anyone else done some real quick goldfishing?

Haunted.

PS please let the gods shove Shop out of the way so we can play this deck again...thanks.

[The Atog Lord]

Gentlemen, please keep it civil.
This is a good and healthy discussion, and I don't want it to degenerate into anything negative.

Rich

[XxtSundaybxX]

Alright so i have done some extensive testing. I tested against Grimlong wiht a good pilot and came out 3-1 in my favor and i tested against empty gush which came out 3-1 again in my favor with his only win to a topdeck tinker>colossus. Also I agree with echoes, Doomsday has been a HOUSE...singlehandidly winning me 2 games alone with rit,doomsday,ponder. I will keep testing but i really like the feel of the deck and how its playing out.

@ Lemnear:

The rituals arent necessarily to accelerate the draw 7's , as this deck doesnt win like Long, your not going to play rit,rit,twister and expect to win without a fastbond on the table...im not saying it cant happen its just very rare. The rituals are more so you can accelerate into your will and your tendrils. Theyre also good to power out an early memory jar.

My list is pretty similar to beckers i just need to find away to fit echoing truth in the list.