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Author Topic: Can someone explain to me how you were supposed to play this old Lich deck?  (Read 2878 times)
Mr. Fantastic
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« on: February 03, 2009, 04:19:37 am »

Just a little background on how I came across this deck list.  I was looking through the bdominia archives (http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://bdominia.com) using the wayback machine.  If you've never done this before, check it out when you get a chance.  I was a constant lurker on the Type One Magic Mill back in the day and it's really amazing to go back and re-read all of the old strategy and theory posts from yesteryear, especially now that I have a much greater understanding of the game.  Anyway, I clicked on an interesting thread about some online tournament where Goldfish (Luc Schoonaert, I think his real name was) posted his Lich deck.  Apparently this thing killed extremely consistently by turn 4, which is pretty amazing considering it looks like a massive Rosewater puzzle to me.


Lands/Mana

1 Library of Alexandria
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Underground Sea
4 Bayou
3 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
4 City of Brass
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt

Other Artifact
1 Mirror Universe
1 Scroll Rack
1 Zuran Orb

Intuition/Replenish Targets
1 Dark Heart of the Wood
1 Sterling Grove
1 Lich
1 City of Solitude
1 Fastbond

Other Manipulation/Random Broken Cards

1 Mystical Tutor
1 Ancestral Recall
2 Impulse
3 Brainstorm
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Intuition
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 Time Spiral
1 Regrowth
3 Forgotten Lore
1 Wheel of Fortune
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Replenish
1 Abeyance
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will

Sideboard:
2 BeB
1 Disenchant
2 Cursed Totem
1 City of Solitude
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroclasm
3 Pyroblast
1 Circle of Protection: Black
1 Circle of Protection: Red
1 Abeyance


Note that this list predates the printing of Overgrown Estate and (obviously) Gifts Ungiven, sac lands, et cetera.

I understand that the basic idea is to get a Lich, Fastbond, Glacial Chasm, and Dark Heart of the Wood into play as quickly as possible, then play lands, tap them for mana, sac to draw three, repeat several times, and eventually play Mirror Universe and Time Walk.  What I don't get is how this deck sets it up and gets it off consistently by turn 4.  Also, I'm having trouble understanding the Forgotten Lore tech and how it is integral to the combo.  This is one of the only cards he runs multiples of, so it must be somewhat integral to tying everything together.  Obviously this was before Recoup or Shrouded Lore were printed.  It's also interesting to me that he's maindecking red blasts and abeyance over Duress, which he has the mana for.

I understand this thing probably wouldn't be anywhere near viable in today's Vintage.  I'm just wondering what made this thing tick in its heyday. Smile  Any help would be appreciated!
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Bill Copes
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« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2009, 02:35:45 pm »

I'm assuming that the Forgotten Lore's serve as regrowths 2-4.  Since he'll have an abundance of any color mana while going off, he can use lore to replay any gas he wants from his graveyard (tutors, brainstorms, fof, etc.)
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Mr. Fantastic
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« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2009, 08:00:40 pm »

I'm assuming that the Forgotten Lore's serve as regrowths 2-4.  Since he'll have an abundance of any color mana while going off, he can use lore to replay any gas he wants from his graveyard (tutors, brainstorms, fof, etc.)

I suppose so.  It's just kind of odd to me that he would run 3 of them since the use you have described would only help him when he is almost certainly going to win anyway.  Also, I find it odd that he runs only one copy of Intuition and one copy of Replenish, not to mention FoF which was actually unrestricted at the time this deck was being played.
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« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2009, 12:27:20 am »

If I recall correctly the deck runs very similar to old Enchantress recusion decks. The main goal early is to cast Timetwister after playing as much mana acceleration as possible. When twist is cast you get your hand refilled and you can then play more mana acceleration, or Time Walk. Fastbond is the best thing to get into play turn 1. After Fastbond hits the board every twist is pure gravy. The key to using the Forgotten Lore is to make sure you dont fill up the graveyard with other things if possible. Remember the whole point of this deck is to abuse twist. Hope that helps.
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Mr. Fantastic
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« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2009, 05:35:52 pm »

If I recall correctly the deck runs very similar to old Enchantress recusion decks. The main goal early is to cast Timetwister after playing as much mana acceleration as possible. When twist is cast you get your hand refilled and you can then play more mana acceleration, or Time Walk. Fastbond is the best thing to get into play turn 1. After Fastbond hits the board every twist is pure gravy. The key to using the Forgotten Lore is to make sure you dont fill up the graveyard with other things if possible. Remember the whole point of this deck is to abuse twist. Hope that helps.

That definitely sheds some light.  Forgotten Lore looks a lot more attractive with only one card in your graveyard, especially when that card is Timetwister. Smile
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« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2009, 06:59:30 pm »

I believe at one point replenish was restricted due to a fading+ animate enchantment (can't remember the exact name) deck. That could be why there's only one.

On the duress note, I think if you used every twist to perpetually duress your opponents twist hand, things would suck in terms of mana. REBs make more sense because you just deal with the problems when they show up.
On the abeyance note, it was the Orim's chant of the day. With out a control shell, he would have problems against Forbidian and other blue control.
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