Optimizing Tezzeret

[Neonico]

Posted by: jamestosetti
Heres what I'm running after reading this stuff and having played alot of different variations for a good while.

This needs a lot of work.  Running Cunning Wish without access to REB is an obvious sign that you haven't considered all your options.

I'd argue that if you're not running ancient grudge, there's no reason to splash the 4th color.  Also, I think it's almost common knowledge that Inkwell (or, IMO, Titan) are strictly better than DSC.

How can you say such things ? I totally disagree with you on DSC vs Leviathan argument in this deck  (leviathan costed me alot more games than DSC in testings, both for clock, non reshuffable issue, ) and Sundering titan remains, in a control combo deck, some sideboard material. My opinion is that leviathan isn't needed maindeck, and should be sideboarded only in afish heavy (or gobelins) metagame.

Same goes for the sideboard choices.... Rack and ruin + Hurkyl's recall are both really valid choices for a cunning wish target agains stax, especially now that the most common chalice will come down to 2 against control combo deck (since restrict of brainstorm), mainly because the play that wreck shop is mana drain into tutor for rebuild/Hurkyl's Recall, i really dont see ancient grudge as a good target.
Rack and ruin is the good choice imo. And if chalice for 2 doesn't land, i dont see how grudge is better than Hurkyl's recall, playable from basics (grudge need 2 off color dual lands, hello mister wasteland), and Recall is "I Win against shop" when Grudge can not be enough.

I think that you should consider choices made by other players as valid, there is not only one thruth when you build a deck, and it's not because someone makes some unorthodox choices that he is wrong. I hate reading : bababa common knowledge, there is not such athing in MTG, you can adapt your lisdt to adifferent playstill, metagame, etc....

[tehmajickguy]

this is the list I used to take down TMD Open 13:

Matt, this list looks great, congrats.

It's a small point, but do you think 3 thoughtseize, 1 duress may have been more correct?  How were the annuls out of the board?  I was always worried they'd be too slow for Oath, Stax.

Thanks. In regards to the Thoughtseize/Duress count, I really liked the 2/2 split main. It never came up where I needed a duress to be a thoughtseize.  The deck could easily be run 3/1 main with another 2 duress in the board, but it depends on what your expected meta is. I geared my list more towards the control mirror and dredge matches (main deck relic and the addition of library over the 6th fetch). The annuls were sick all day. Every time I drew one, it was huge. It ate null rods and random lock pieces perfectly. 

[jamestosetti]

My list is more along the lines of don't play what he's playing because everyone is used to playing against it and my list like he said has very good options.One thing I would consider is running a second misdirection which I normally do in the place of intuition. I see thoughtseize is popular so it is a good option to misdirect it to hit a pivotal card in there hand and its always great to steal recall. Cunning wish to extirpate or rack and ruin can be huge. How about cunning wish to hurk'ls recall to hit Leviathan? Trygons can come in against fish and that's also why the pithing needle is main, for the ninja. Not trying to be a wise acre but Ive played a similar list to what was posted as well as other options and now I've started playing this. I haven't used an ineffective Tezz list yet.
   I usually played tps but have been playing Tezz since it came out. I feel with Tezzeret lists you can change them considerably to the metagame you expect and then use wise decisions in your games. I also feel there is enough in it to deal effectively with ichorid. Apart from 7 possible solutions you have your counterspells. Just a list to consider. I think its fun.

[Bongo]

I see thoughtseize is popular so it is a good option to misdirect it to hit a pivotal card in there hand

Even if you misdirect a Thoughtseize, your opponent still gets to choose. Hence, it never hits a pivotal card. This is pretty basic.
Do you actually play Vintage? Reading your posts, it seems like you love to talk a lot, but don't have any actual experience (MWS doesn't count as real playtesting).

---

What is the better choice for maindeck graveyard hate? Tormod's or Relic? Both have their pros and cons, and it's hard to see which one is better.

[Neonico]

I tend to maindeck tormod's crypt, simply because, even if relic cycle in dead matchups, it can be too slow against ichorid (i play 2 trinket in my list and a transmute artefact) to activate after tutoring, especially on the draw.
That said, i have 1 needle 3 jailer et 2 relic in sideboard.

[Caron]

...mmm.. tormod or relic... that's  good question....
I use 2 transmute artifact so i prefer tormod... it's slightly faster and doesn't hurt my GY,
... even if when you remove all gyrds with relic you also kill goyfs i guess.. so...
... tormod faster, relic more useful...
i still prefer tormod...
but i'll playtest relic too to see it0s impact..

... CARONDIMONIO

[EnialisLiadon]

I prefer Relic of Progenitus because it gets around Chalice for zero.  That it nukes my own graveyard as well hasn't been much of a setback in games I play where the grave-hate is needed.

[Noah]

Hey, I split in the finals of a Lotus Tournament in Tornoto with Menedians Composite list he posted with 1 change to the main deck (I played Relic over Crypt main deck).

Composite Tezzeret Control

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
3 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
2 Flooded Strand
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Island
1 Snow-Covered Island
2 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
1 Library of Alexandria
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
4 Thirst For Knowledge
2 Tezzeret The Seeker
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Brainstorm
1 Tinker
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Ponder
1 Misdirection
1 Echoing Truth
1 Voltaic Key
1 Time Vault
1 Sensei’s Divining Top
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Darksteel Colossus
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Regrowth
1 Duress

Sideboard:
2 Tormod’s Crypt
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
2 Duress
1 Yixlid Jailer
1 Hurkyl’s Recall
1 Extirpate
1 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of the Progenitus
1 Rack and Ruin
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pyroclasm

Round 1 - Painter

Game 1 - We counter all our spells but I started with Library so we get to a point where I have 3 cards and he has none. I finally draw something other then permission and seal the deal.
Game 2 - I get a busted draw with the turn 1 Duress, Tinker for Vault, play Voltaic Key and take all the turns I want. 2-0

1-0

Round 2 - U/R Landstill

This match wasn't even close. I mulligan game 1 and have a hand full of Artifact mana. he sticks a Null Rod and then rips a rucible for Wasteland lock. Game 2 he resolves another Null Rod an I shit my pants again. 0-2

1-1

Round 3 - U/G/B Fish

Game 1 - I keep a sketchy hand and gets a turn 2 Bob to stick follwed by a couple of Goyfs. I can't draw something in time.
Game 2 - I keep a spicy hand of turn 3 Tezzeret with lots of back up.
Game 3 - I keep a Library hand and draw about 3 cards off it till he Wastes it. I'm way up on cards now and try for a Tinker. We go back a forth until it resolves and Darksteel Colossus has his way with him. 2-1

2-1

Round 4 - Mirror

I don't really remember much about this match. All I remember is that he wins the first but I win the match. All the games were complete blow outs on both sides. No mulligans. 2-1

3-1

Round 5 - Shop Aggro

Game 1 - I keep a sick hand of Tinker, Thirst, Ancestral and Force with some other blue card but no blue source. I do have a Mana Crypt and a Relic of Progenitus so decide to keep knowing what he's playing. I play the Crypt and cycle the Relic but fail to hit the U source on turn 1. He plays a Mox a Workshop and casts a Solemn which I let resolve. I rip the U source (HL) the following turn and pass. He casts a sword of Fire/Ice which I cast Thirst in response pitching an Artifact. I counter the Sword and take 2. I untap and cast Ancestral hitting another Force and another land. I cast Tinker for Colossus and win out.
Game 2 - I keep a slower hand with a couple draw spells and a couple Drains. He casts a turn 2 Jester's Cap which he cracks the following turn taking 1 Tezzeret, Colossus and the Time Vault. If he had just taken the 2 Tezzerets and the 11/11 I would have scooped. So I keep playing and he fails to play creatures for the next couple turns. I finally draw a tutor for the last Tezz and I attack for 20 with 4 artifacts for the match. 2-0

4-1

Round 6 I draw making it in in 8th. 4-1-1

Top 8 - Mana Ichorid

Unfortunately I have to play a Teammate in the top 8 so we talk, prize split and play it out. I mulligan to 5 game 1 and draw nothing. Game 2 he keeps a poor hand and I Tinker for Colossus. Game 3 he casts an Unmask which I think a while about countering. My hand is Force, Ancestral, Tinker, Relic, Land, Mox, Top. I think and think and finally decide to counter it by removing Ancestral. Marty shits his pants after seeing Recall RFG, plays Bazaar and passes. I cast Mox, land and Relic and pass. He Dredges and hits nothing important. and passes. I hit a Mox but I don't cast Tinker so I can keep mana up for Relic. So I just play top and pass. He does the same and passes without hitting a Meoba, Therapy or Needle for the Relic. I top EOT and hit a Land. I cast Tinker and get Colossus. He fails to ripo a Chain of Vapor and I get there. GGs Marty.

Top 4 - Mirror

Game 1 - I keep a slow hand but it's ok vs the Mirror (4 lands, Drain, FOF, Regrowth). He duresses and takes the Drain. I play Reegowth and get Drain back. He Thoughtseizes and take FOF this time. I draw a Thirst and Pass with 4 mana up. He plays land and passes. I opt not to cast Thirst so I can have a Drain back up next turn. I draw, play a land and pass. He casts his own Thirst main phase and I respond by casting Thirst. He lets it resolve and I draw Tinker, Drain, Mis Direction. I discard 2 lands and let his Thirst resolve. Then he trys to cast his own Tezzeret which I Drain he casts Force of Will which I MisD to his Tezzeret so I don't burn for 5. I rip a Mox and cast Tinker for the GGs.
Game 2 - I don't remember much of this game but I remember finishing it with a Darksteel Colossus and 2 Counters with him having nothing in hand.

Finals - Split

[jamestosetti]

Even if you misdirect a Thoughtseize, your opponent still gets to choose. Hence, it never hits a pivotal card. This is pretty basic.
Do you actually play Vintage? Reading your posts, it seems like you love to talk a lot, but don't have any actual experience (MWS doesn't count as real playtesting).



   Yes I am dumb and I do play vintage and yes there is a big chance to get a good card taken from you own thoughtseize. It really depends on the size of your hand but I normally don't hold basics in my hand until it's the last result and bait for them them to play there discard spell.  May by it's personal preference or may by I've really seen it done quite a few times.

[tehmajickguy]

I see thoughtseize is popular so it is a good option to misdirect it to hit a pivotal card in there hand

Even if you misdirect a Thoughtseize, your opponent still gets to choose. Hence, it never hits a pivotal card. This is pretty basic.
Do you actually play Vintage? Reading your posts, it seems like you love to talk a lot, but don't have any actual experience (MWS doesn't count as real playtesting).

 Thats not entirely true. Granted, having to burn a misd + blue card isn't ideal when it hits a mox in their hand, but multiple scenarios do exist where misdirection a thoughtseize are extremely relevant:

1) You're protecting a bomb in your hand. i.e. tinker, will, dt, ect...

2) They have 1 or 2 cards in hand and are trying to use it to set up their bomb (see listed cards above)

3) You have the exactly enough resources to set up the win or keep yourself from losing and the seize will shit on that.


  And as an aside, theres no need to be a dick and ask " Do you play Vintage" or "you talk but don't actually have any experience".  If you're gonna be a douche bag, take it to pm.

[Caron]

i like that list noah...
i've tryed it and it's strong.
but i still prefer not to use one color (green) for one single card (regrowth) forcing you to have too many lands/mana sources to stabilise the mana versus waste/strips..
relic in maindeck is also arguable.. even if it's very useful... it's a dead card versus MUD, aggroartifacts, shop's, 9spheres etc..

misdirecting a thoughtseiz, especially in the first turns, can let you win the match in many situations... so, i think is a very strong answer...

...maybe i don't play vintage enough... ahahahahahah   ....but i still believe that misdirecting a thoughtseiz rocks... that's why i often use 3 duresses and one or 2 thoughtseizes (and those often in my SB).

CARONDIMONIO

[CHaPuZaS]

As always, I have to say that the best way to optimize the deck is to pacl Thoughtcast which I've found as a surprinsingly fast and good draw engine. I've already talked about the deck a lot in forums and my blog...

Against Drain Decks: It performs almost perfectly against any DrainDeck. The ability to outdraw any of those decks gives you the win.
Against Combo Decks: It performs very well, this is a Drain Deck that draws a lot in the first 2/3 turns, so that the rest of the game you can keep controlling the combo.
Against Workshops: It performs well thanks to the sideboard, if you win the first game there's almost a game because the deck packs a lot of hate.
Against Dredge: The sideboard contains 10 cards against Mana Ichorid, I constructed it so that some cards used against Workshops could beat Ichorid (Ingot Chewer) and REB is also good. So far I think I've never lost against it.
Against Fish/Landstill: Almost an impossible match, can do something against Fish if explosive enough, but forget about winning Landstill.

This is the deck I'm talking about, with which I've won 3 out of 8 events, Top Eighting in other 2 of those other 5 events. It comes from winning this month LMV as you can seein this Top 8:

TezzCast by Cesar Fernandez

Mainboard:

1 Sundering Titan
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Thoughtcast
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Echoing Truth
1 Tinker
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Misdirection
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Voltaic Key
1 Time Vault
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
4 Seat of the Synod

Sideboard:

4 Ingot Chewer
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Extirpate
2 Duress
2 Rack and Ruin
1 Thoughtseize
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast

The blast card of the deck is Thoughtcast which is surprisingly good. The ability to outdraw everydeck comes with the debility of losing against a Null Rod (That's another reason for packing Ingot Chewer). As always you can found the report in my blog, in Spanish, that's for sure.

[Implacable]

I've been taking a similar approach, but instead of Thoughtcast, I've just been using the Key + Top engine, both parts of which are useful on their own but great in the control mirror when paired (I run 3 of each).  When I tested 'Cast, I had trouble casting it on Turn 2, which to my mind makes it of dubious value.

[CHaPuZaS]

I've been taking a similar approach, but instead of Thoughtcast, I've just been using the Key + Top engine, both parts of which are useful on their own but great in the control mirror when paired (I run 3 of each).  When I tested 'Cast, I had trouble casting it on Turn 2, which to my mind makes it of dubious value.

Are you sure is it THAT bad being unable to cast it turn 2? Take into account that you have 4 of them so be sure you'll have to play them before that turn (Some of them), but I think that 2 cards for U is really powerful, no matter the turn. That's how the decks overdraws the opponent.

On the other hand, it's also very powerful the Top+Key engine, I compare it to my opponent's Library, but looking at the top. I use to draw a lot that way too. But I'm sure that I prefer Thoughtcast.

[Neonico]

Isn't thoughtcast just a sorotami couseil like in the early turns ? I mean, if you don't drain something big on turn 2 or you have the nuts moxen hands, i think that you will very often tap out turn 3 to play it.... I would really prefer to play Impulse in that slot i think, you loose 1 card, but look 2 more cards, at instant speed, and you can often play it on turn 1 with a moxen....

And i dont speack of getting drained in the mirror matchup....

[CHaPuZaS]

Isn't thoughtcast just a sorotami couseil like in the early turns ? I mean, if you don't drain something big on turn 2 or you have the nuts moxen hands, i think that you will very often tap out turn 3 to play it.... I would really prefer to play Impulse in that slot i think, you loose 1 card, but look 2 more cards, at instant speed, and you can often play it on turn 1 with a moxen....

And i dont speack of getting drained in the mirror matchup....

The results of TezzCast speak by themselves. I've just been drained twice in 8 complete tournaments (Each of 6 rounds plus Top8), also Drain Mirror is its best matchup. The thing is that you have to know how to play your cards so that the oponent can't drain them, but that's the basic ability needed to be a good drain deck player.

Also you don't have to draw the nuts to play Thoughtcast for 1U or U, because you have 19 artifacts cheap artifacts, almost 1/3 of the deck. I'm really bored of trying to demonstrate how good the deck is, I can understand how in paper it may look disturbing, but a few games will show how quick and powerful it is.

Breed, a french player of this forum can tell the difference between this and a regular Tezz Deck.

[Caron]

...mmm...
1) if you want to beat fish try to SB the abyss + 2 masticore.... and see what happens...
2)..thoughtcast is a sorcery.. powerful draw-engine but very slow (sorcery) and situational (you have to draw and use mana accelerators to enjoy affinity..)
i still think that in our metagame it's too slow... but surely is worth trying it...
like is worth trying maybe meditate+remora...

i don't see much point in splashing red instead.. i don't like 3 colors and if i really have to use one more color i think green is much better than red in this deck...
this is only my opinion anyway...

CARONDIMONIO

[Neonico]

Isn't thoughtcast just a sorotami couseil like in the early turns ? I mean, if you don't drain something big on turn 2 or you have the nuts moxen hands, i think that you will very often tap out turn 3 to play it.... I would really prefer to play Impulse in that slot i think, you loose 1 card, but look 2 more cards, at instant speed, and you can often play it on turn 1 with a moxen....

And i dont speack of getting drained in the mirror matchup....

The results of TezzCast speak by themselves. I've just been drained twice in 8 complete tournaments (Each of 6 rounds plus Top8), also Drain Mirror is its best matchup. The thing is that you have to know how to play your cards so that the oponent can't drain them, but that's the basic ability needed to be a good drain deck player.

Also you don't have to draw the nuts to play Thoughtcast for 1U or U, because you have 19 artifacts cheap artifacts, almost 1/3 of the deck. I'm really bored of trying to demonstrate how good the deck is, I can understand how in paper it may look disturbing, but a few games will show how quick and powerful it is.

Breed, a french player of this forum can tell the difference between this and a regular Tezz Deck.

First, your 19 artefacts base to support Thoughtcast :
And for me, means that you have to play some artefacts that a really controlish version of tezzeret shouldn't play, such as 2nd key, Lotus Petal. 2nd top is correct even if i don't like it. Seat of Synod x4, considering how null ords and Wasteland are actually heavy played (perhaps not in spain, but at least in France) is really a bad idea, for me.
I don't even speack of tezzeret, which you play 2 copies and i feel like it's the worst card of the deck
That also means to things in the playstill : you have to spend early turns to play some artefacts such as Key, vault, Tops, to make it the most effective. Not something i like to do in a control combo deck. But perhaps that leads me to my second point :

You perhaps play the deck in a more comboish way than i do :
Okay, but i don't understand then how, playing 2 keys, impulse shouldnt be include in the list instead of thoughtcast. It's really better IMO in a comboish version of the deck, because oyu see alot of cards, is instant speed, and can be cast turn 1 of a mox, doesn't interfering woth your drains in the early game

Point N°3 : The drain problem :
Okay, i can easily understand your argument about not casting thoughtcast iuf your opponent has drain open without protection. But against competent drain players, i don't see how 99% of the time, the competent drain pilot won't have UU open because he has mana drain or want you to think he has it. So what you doing ? Holding your thoughtcasts in hands ? Meaning having some dead cards ? that point also leads me to consider that impulse serve this role alot better, simply because of his instant speed.

I dont say that thoughtcast is bad, it's not the point, but i just think that you could have a better option, especially considering your list and the paystyle you could have to pilot it. And i think that impulse is strictly superior to it, even if you don't get card advantage from it.

One last thing : Winning tournaments with a list does'nt make it perfect or whatever... Perhaps you would have won more games playing impulse over thoughtcast, it's really not the point.

[CHaPuZaS]

I've never think of abyss, but the real problem of fish are't the critters but Null Rod, Stifle and Wasteland. I'm not sure if buying time is enough to win if a Rod stays a lot in the ground...

Red makes a lot of sense in the deck. Red Elemental Blast is very important to combat the control mirror and protecting turn two thoughtcast and other spells. Against Workshops, the reason is Ingot Chewer and Artifact hate such as Rack and Ruin, Ingot chewer is the nuts! It can beat Fish, Workshops, mask, Slaver..... I've tried green for Regrowth, but I highly prefer 4 Seat of the Synod to fuel Thirsts and thoughtcasts than Library of alexandria and Regrowth.

[FlyFlySideOfFry]

Do you just scoop if your opponent casts Null Rod? Seems like you stand absolutely no chance if one sticks since it kills off 1/3 of your deck.

[Caron]

the abyss is fantastic to kill ninja, confindant etc. (goyfs' etc.) destriyng basic draw engine end damage-closures...
together with masticore means fish is harmless.. and with no drawing ninjas/bob's it's difficolt for them to find wastelands...

wastelands/stripo, i use 2 only blue/black deck so more solid mana base and i fon't need to worry like you that use 3 colors

regrowth.. i agree with you.. it's not that good... almost a dead card in early and late game.. sometime good in middle time and in gift conditions.. which are not so relevant in this deck

more comboish tezeret is very nice.. i use 2 voltaic key and 2 transmute artifact... to go even faster toward combo..

Red is still no worth in my opinion... good bu unnecessary...

your 19 artifacts let you loose to rebuild/hurkyl which here are very common in main decks so.. bye bye thoutcast

and to close..... i agree if a deck wins.. it doesn't mean much.. i have seen very good players going to top'8 with not so good decks.. and many neebys loosing with the strongest decks for the metagame tournament they were involved in...

i think anyway that it's very interesting to discuss desck and SB ideas... trying other solutions is very stimulating...



CARONDIMONIO

[CHaPuZaS]

Isn't thoughtcast just a sorotami couseil like in the early turns ? I mean, if you don't drain something big on turn 2 or you have the nuts moxen hands, i think that you will very often tap out turn 3 to play it.... I would really prefer to play Impulse in that slot i think, you loose 1 card, but look 2 more cards, at instant speed, and you can often play it on turn 1 with a moxen....

And i dont speack of getting drained in the mirror matchup....

The results of TezzCast speak by themselves. I've just been drained twice in 8 complete tournaments (Each of 6 rounds plus Top8), also Drain Mirror is its best matchup. The thing is that you have to know how to play your cards so that the oponent can't drain them, but that's the basic ability needed to be a good drain deck player.

Also you don't have to draw the nuts to play Thoughtcast for 1U or U, because you have 19 artifacts cheap artifacts, almost 1/3 of the deck. I'm really bored of trying to demonstrate how good the deck is, I can understand how in paper it may look disturbing, but a few games will show how quick and powerful it is.

Breed, a french player of this forum can tell the difference between this and a regular Tezz Deck.

First, your 19 artefacts base to support Thoughtcast :
I only count 15 of them
And for me, means that you have to play some artefacts that a really controlish version of tezzeret shouldn't play, such as 2nd key, Lotus Petal. 2nd top is correct even if i don't like it. I don't even speack of tezzeret, which you play 2 copies and i feel like it's the worst card of the deck
That also means to things in the playstill : you have to spend early turns to play some artefacts such as Key, vault, Tops, to make it the most effective. Not something i like to do in a control combo deck. But perhaps that leads me to my second point :

You perhaps play the deck in a more comboish way than i do :
Okay, but i don't understand then how, playing 2 keys, impulse shouldnt be include in the list instead of thoughtcast. It's really better IMO in a comboish version of the deck, because oyu see alot of cards, is instant speed, and can be cast turn 1 of a mox, doesn't interfering woth your drains in the early game

Point N°3 : The drain problem :
Okay, i can easily understand your argument about not casting thoughtcast iuf your opponent has drain open without protection. But against competent drain players, i don't see how 99% of the time, the competent drain pilot won't have UU open because he has mana drain or want you to think he has it. So what you doing ? Holding your thoughtcasts in hands ? Meaning having some dead cards ? that point also leads me to consider that impulse serve this role alot better, simply because of his instant speed.

I dont say that thoughtcast is bad, it's not the point, but i just think that you could have a better option, especially considering your list and the paystyle you could have to pilot it. And i think that impulse is strictly superior to it, even if you don't get card advantage from it.

One last thing : Winning tournaments with a list does'nt make it perfect or whatever... Perhaps you would have won more games playing impulse over thoughtcast, it's really not the point.

The deck counts with 4 Seat of the Synod, which is the difference from 15 to 19 artifacts.

The whole deck runs around Thoughtcast, that's why I run Petal. Also Key+Top is incredible! You have to play it to see how you ruin a game to a player with a Library with this combination. the second Key is there because I want to combo out as soon as possible, people don't counter vault if i play it first, then they have to battler two keys.

Sure the deck is more comboish, that's why I like it.

Do you just scoop if your opponent casts Null Rod? Seems like you stand absolutely no chance if one sticks since it kills off 1/3 of your deck.

Yes. More or less. But it have to into play.

your 19 artifacts let you loose to rebuild/hurkyl which here are very common in main decks so.. bye bye thoutcast

Bouncers are played everywhere, and for me, Hurkyll's or Rebuild is not a problem.

[Mr. Sligh]

Reading the list posted on this topic, I have a question: anyone play the trasformational oath sideboard?
Why do you prefer to play a sort of aggro-control sideboard?
Do you really think Tarmogoyf is the real answer to the "Fish Problem"?

I'm testing this deck, in preparation of Bom III, and my opinion, gold-fishing the deck and playing against my teammates, is that this deck is 60-40 against all other tier1 decks, but incredibily sucks against Goblins, Fish UR (expecially but also UW or URB) and quitely against workshop.deck (if the player start with both chalice at zero and a sphere is an hard match). Because of these matchups I really considered to play something like the deck Jimmy McCarthy in a recent tournament named Meandeck Tezzeret.
Oath post side plan is the best way to win against aggro and aggro control deck, that is approximately the 70% of Tezzeret negative matchups.

My 2 cents

[Grand Inquisitor]

anyone play the trasformational oath sideboard?

This technique has as its benefit, the simplicity of execution.  Against the decks you bring it in against, you find it and let it do its thing.

However, I've never been able to rationalize the space.  Given that you'll want two creatures (moving the count up to three total since one is probably the MD tinker robot), the four oaths, and a blessing (removal always seems to track well enough so that you may need to recur guys and this card does double duty against painter), that means seven sideboard slots.

Since the conversion isn't very helpful against Ichorid (unless you go with Archon or Platz or something) and it's not a sure thing against workshops, you really can't cover all your bases with the residual space.

Outside of the logistics of sideboard management, I've never found the fish matchup to be bad enough to require seven slots being dedicated to it.  You play more powerful spells and always have Tinker.  It's always made more sense to me to devote the space to other matchups.

That being said, it is easy to use and is appropriate for certain metagames.  The midwest guys seem to do well by it.

[LordHomerCat]

I played it for a while.  It is strong if people don't see it coming.  However, once they start counterboarding, I just went to Goyf, who they can't really board against (since their STP and crap need to stay in for DSC anyway) and who gets the job done in most of the same matchups without taking up your entire board.

[Anusien]

Has anyone experimented with Exalted Angel and/or Wrath of God instead of Tarmogoyf?  It seems like a better answer to problem cards like Aven Mindcensor.

[LordHomerCat]

Mindcensor is a card I have literally never had played against me.  He is about the same level of concern to me as someone playing Magus of the Unseen.  Also, Wrath is a really slow and awful answer to Wasteland decks as it requires me to get 2 Tundras to even cast, and Angel is the same.  Wrath does less than nothing against Shops also.  Angel costs a million to get going and again requires 2 white sources to be more than a gray ogre.  There is no reason I would play white, there are no white cards that compare to Goyf/Grip or REB/Artifact Hate.

[Neonico]

Unless you doing something wrong, aven mindcensor shouldn't be a problem....
The real problem of fish decks is that they denial you alot AND shut down your 2 main victory conditions : Tinker and Vault.
Razormane masticore remains the best Ub solution + Inkwhell Leviathan in the sideboard.
SPlashing Green for tarmogoyf is the second one.

[Suicideking]

Mindcensor is a card I have literally never had played against me.  He is about the same level of concern to me as someone playing Magus of the Unseen.  Also, Wrath is a really slow and awful answer to Wasteland decks as it requires me to get 2 Tundras to even cast, and Angel is the same.  Wrath does less than nothing against Shops also.  Angel costs a million to get going and again requires 2 white sources to be more than a gray ogre.  There is no reason I would play white, there are no white cards that compare to Goyf/Grip or REB/Artifact Hate.

I have to agree.  Wrath does as little as firespout, which is in way more favorable colors.  And I cant say I've seen a deck running mindcensor in at least 6 months.

[LordHomerCat]

Razormane costs too much.  If I can resolve 5 mana sorceries, I'm doing OK.  Similarly, if I resolve Tinker (as another way to get him), I've already won.  I want something that lets me actually play the game before I get to 5, like Goyf.  That was Oath's draw, it only costs 2 mana to get you a giant monster.