xouman
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« Reply #90 on: March 06, 2010, 10:40:15 pm » |
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In my local league the powered ratio was 90% last time, but there was a time when only 70% of people were powered. Random decks could achieve ok, and there were 2 "best unpowered deck" prizes. But as people bought their packs, non regular players were losing more and more, having worse decks, and lots haven't played again. Besides, if new players have to invest 3000$ in a bunch of cards, they won't start playing vintage.
today i met an old friend, and i told him i still play magic 14 years after we started playing (he has not played for more than 10 years). He told me that would be great to come to a tournament, but I can't advise him to come, since he lacks both the knowledge and the powerful cards. One less player for the league, and I know several ex-players in the same position :p
Of course you can advise him to come. Magic is about fun, and just because a deck doesn't run shops, drain of duals doesn't mean it's not competitive. Look at the Sullivan solution list from 2009 Champs. ( http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=28707 ) It was able to top 8 champs without ancestral recall maindeck, and I'm willing to bet it would still run pretty smooth without power. Plus, who says he has to be able to win to play? Magic is about fun, and just going to a tournament for the first time is fun, regardless if you top 8, or get your ass whooped. I mean, isn't that why we play magic? And if your friend does have fun, he may decide to take it more seriously, and may want to buy more powerful cards. We can't expect people that don't play vintage already to be willing to just go out and by power. There needs to be an ample demand to warrent reprint, and I doubt your friend would ever play vintage if you told him "Sure you can play, but first you need to spend a few grand on it first" People need to want to play before they will want to spend money for it Of course new people don't have to win to get interested in vintage, but i'm sure new people with non-competitive decks should win 1 match every 4 or 5, and that is not funny so they won't play again. My friend invested about 200 dollars 14 years ago (a WG deck, with duals, serras, erhams...) and for a 14 years old boy in Spain that was an important amount, but he knew he liked that game. Now he does not know vintage, and he won't pay 3000 dollars for a hobby, even if he can recover the money someday. I'm sure quite people has got into Vintage thanks to the proxies, because they can test with a small investment a broken format with amazing combos. If proxies are ok and standarized, reprints are not needed, but as long as competitive tournaments do not let proxies, Vintage will be heavily limited.
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« Reply #91 on: March 07, 2010, 04:19:53 am » |
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I am against reprinting power and duals
Yes I have 35/40 duals and a Sapphire, along with almost all staples in Vintage and Legacy.
I think reprinting power will mess up the current (and really cool) metagame. Where will all the budget decks go?
Btw.. is this only about power 9 and duals? Or is it cards like Library, Imperial Recruiter and Tabernacle of Pendrell Vale also?
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arctic79
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« Reply #92 on: March 07, 2010, 05:04:48 am » |
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I am against reprinting power and duals
Yes I have 35/40 duals and a Sapphire, along with almost all staples in Vintage and Legacy.
I think reprinting power will mess up the current (and really cool) metagame. Where will all the budget decks go?
Btw.. is this only about power 9 and duals? Or is it cards like Library, Imperial Recruiter and Tabernacle of Pendrell Vale also?
IMO the metgame with reprints (and possibly unrestrictions) will open up a huge new world. Is the current metagame really that exciting? IMO NO. It is a series of variations of 3-4 decks. Some people call this the golden age of Vintage, I don't think we have truely made it to that point yet.
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Tiki Walker
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« Reply #93 on: March 07, 2010, 08:51:42 am » |
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I am against reprinting power and duals
Yes I have 35/40 duals and a Sapphire, along with almost all staples in Vintage and Legacy.
I think reprinting power will mess up the current (and really cool) metagame. Where will all the budget decks go?
Btw.. is this only about power 9 and duals? Or is it cards like Library, Imperial Recruiter and Tabernacle of Pendrell Vale also?
IMO the metagame with reprints (and possibly unrestrictions) will open up a huge new world. Is the current metagame really that exciting? IMO NO. It is a series of variations of 3-4 decks. Some people call this the golden age of Vintage, I don't think we have truly made it to that point yet.
Agreed. If we are talking about just deck names, then perhaps it is correct that there are countless names for T1 decks in existence. If we are talking about archetypes for nowadays T1 decks, then it is entirely a different thing. Regarding the golden age of T1, me and my friends see it more as a return to the stone age. And, I think reprinting power will mess up the current (and really cool) metagame. Where will all the budget decks go?
How is that so?
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« Reply #94 on: March 08, 2010, 02:35:11 am » |
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So am I the only one that saw this and said "Oh !@#$ I better sell my power?"
Really though. This is really disheartening and made me feel sick. Reprinting power, shops, drains, duals, etc wont do anything to help the vintage scene any more than the proxy system will. Serriously, what is wrong with proxies??? If you dont have 10-15 cards, then you proxy them. However, proxying is not nearly as great as owning the real card, so people can still aspire to own the real thing. Print dumb ass foil Black Lotus's and moxes and you will really ruin Vintage. The only thing it will do is make old faithful vintage players like me leave the game and be sad at how Wizards continues to ruin the game. Vintage will not grow. New players like legacy and t2 players will continue to dabble in the format but will not stick with it becauase Vintage is made to be a more stable format for old timers who love the old cards
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arctic79
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« Reply #95 on: March 08, 2010, 03:18:35 am » |
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So am I the only one that saw this and said "Oh !@#$ I better sell my power?"
Really though. This is really disheartening and made me feel sick. Reprinting power, shops, drains, duals, etc wont do anything to help the vintage scene any more than the proxy system will. Serriously, what is wrong with proxies??? If you dont have 10-15 cards, then you proxy them. However, proxying is not nearly as great as owning the real card, so people can still aspire to own the real thing. Print dumb ass foil Black Lotus's and moxes and you will really ruin Vintage. The only thing it will do is make old faithful vintage players like me leave the game and be sad at how Wizards continues to ruin the game. Vintage will not grow. New players like legacy and t2 players will continue to dabble in the format but will not stick with it becauase Vintage is made to be a more stable format for old timers who love the old cards
I maybe wrong but the bulk of players in magic that push attendance numbers tend to be in Sanctioned play (draft, Standard, Legacy, etc..) and unless Wizards recognizes proxies (which it never will because they generate no profit) we have only one big (and I use big loosely) tourney a year sanctioned. Wizards is also probably looking at the number of proxy tournaments and is realizing the amount of profit they are missing out on. Really boo-f'n-hoo if your cards lose value (which they probably won't), I have been playing magic since '94 and have never owned power because of the investment it requires, that isn't to say I wouldn't love to own power, but I have a family to think about first like many other players do. It's players like you with this sense of entitlement to the format are holding Vintage back. If Vintage is to survive it needs to drop this exclusive, elitist attitude that is attributed to it and welcome new players in with some fresh cardstock.
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Troy_Costisick
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« Reply #96 on: March 08, 2010, 07:34:33 am » |
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I am against reprinting power and duals
Yes I have 35/40 duals and a Sapphire, along with almost all staples in Vintage and Legacy.
I think reprinting power will mess up the current (and really cool) metagame. Where will all the budget decks go?
Btw.. is this only about power 9 and duals? Or is it cards like Library, Imperial Recruiter and Tabernacle of Pendrell Vale also?
IMO the metgame with reprints (and possibly unrestrictions) will open up a huge new world. Is the current metagame really that exciting? IMO NO. It is a series of variations of 3-4 decks. Some people call this the golden age of Vintage, I don't think we have truely made it to that point yet. The Golden Age was from June 2007-June 2008. We're just now coming out of the Dark Age.
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i_set_fire
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« Reply #97 on: March 08, 2010, 10:44:53 am » |
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my plea: instead of destroying my child's college fund because you think that a surplus of "affordable" p9 will boost vintage how about you create the demand before the supply.
I read this and thought to myself "WOW, Can I sell this guy some magic beans?" Seriously, are you for real. Either you need a new financial advisor or you have the biggest balls out there. Have you already apoligized to your children that they will be going to McDonald's College of Microwavable Foods instead of Harvard (or where ever). On the topic at hand, I really do hope they do some reprints to stimulate the community growth. Card design really doesn't matter to me because a legal card is a legal card. it was an exaggeration to stress the point of a ruined investment due to an unnecessary reprint of power. obviously i am not sending a kid to college with magic cards. besides, my kids prefer wendy's.
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Team Nicedeck
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PETER FLUGZEUG
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« Reply #98 on: March 08, 2010, 11:18:55 am » |
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quoted The Golden Age was from June 2007-June 2008. We're just now coming out of the Dark Age.
exactly. That point was when a lot of players left, at least in our area. On the other hand: We have a monthly tourney in Zurich with about 50 players per month. We couldn't have power prices to give away if it wasn't for the collaborating dealer who sponsors prices (or finds power to give away) all the time. just look at bazaar of moxen... do you think they could run those tournaments if it wasn't in collaboration with dealers who sponsor prices etc.? And: when they DO give away such prices, look at the attendance it gets... http://www.bazaar-of-moxen.com/magic-events-T1-legacy-mtg-tournaments-bom-bazaarofmoxen.phpDon't you think that's just THE ultimate reason why we love vintage?
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I will be playing four of these. I'll worry about the deck later.
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median
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« Reply #99 on: March 08, 2010, 10:53:21 pm » |
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I don't know if this fits exactly on topic, however there is a new FTV coming out and it looks like another vintage set. http://www.gatheringmagic.com/from-the-vault-relics-spoilers/So far masticore is confirmed and possibly nevinyarrl's disk. I think if they follow the pattern there will be one mirror universe quality card in there... or it could bee all moxen. Who knows! FTV artifacts!
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He traded goats for artifacts, artifacts for cards, cards for life. In the end, he traded life for goats.
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Yare
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« Reply #100 on: March 09, 2010, 12:31:06 pm » |
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WotC has publicly stated P9 will not appear in FTV: Relics.
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Oath of Happy
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« Reply #101 on: March 09, 2010, 01:14:44 pm » |
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it disgusts me to see that dreadnought became a DCI foil. The new layout is amazingly out of place with the original art. This is one of the reasons why I don't want duals nor power reprinted. http://cgi.ebay.com/MTG-1X-DCI-JUDGE-FOIL-PHYREXIAN-DREADNOUGHT-NM_W0QQitemZ260563074728QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3caac4fea8#ht_500wt_1085it seems like eternal formats are already getting whored out in favor of limited noobs. If this is how its 15 year customers are fucked over, I see no future for this game. Not because my cards will devalue, but because they should keep their damn hands of the ecosystem instead of trying to regulate it. This is a matter of free market vs communism. I will stop reading your articles, premium or free, because I don't like where you stand on this matter. By whoring out the eternal community you are definitely not the right representative, regardless of the fact that you may have spent years building that reputation. I guess its only a matter of time before this becomes reality. They should be done giving these out by 2011 which means they can start FTV:Power in 2012.      Hey, what are those cards? I know the Moxes are oversized and the Ruby was given out as a world champs prize, but what is that foil DCI lotus? Is that an actual card that was printed that isn't tournament legal kind of like Gifts Given?
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credmond
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« Reply #102 on: March 09, 2010, 01:40:30 pm » |
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I think there needs to be a sharply defined tiered view of what should be reprinted and what should not be.
Dual lands (and other absolute essentials) are something that I think can safely be reprinted and will only have a positive effect all around.
However, reprinting something like the high cost power cards would be disastrous. The collectibility of magic has been a driving force behind players unquenchable desire to speculate upon and amass cards.
The problem of the shortage of power could be addressed by Wizards printing officially sanctioned proxies that are authorized for use in what could then be fully sanctioned tournaments. They could price set those (i.e. guarantee that they will always mail those out to whoever requests at a set price) and at a nominal fee (maybe $10 per proxy) and make them bland cards (i.e. true unsexy proxies). With their set price and unattractive quality they would carry a stigma attached to their use and they wouldn't challenge the bling factor or desirability of amassing true power for ones deck (just like handmade proxies nowadays really don't challenge the value of real power). The barrier of entry for many players would be removed but importantly the desirability of acquiring true power would still be there. Most Vintage tournaments are already proxy anyway but having sanctioned proxies would help regulate them in terms of what can be proxied and other factors, like the legibility of the proxies themselves. Also, it would provide Wizards with a way of profiting from Vintage in a way that hasn't been tapped into before.
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« Last Edit: March 09, 2010, 01:48:01 pm by credmond »
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Killane
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« Reply #103 on: March 09, 2010, 03:54:40 pm » |
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As a Banker with a fairly solid understanding of economics, I'm not at all convinced that the value of existing Power would be negitively affected by reprints, and in fact I'm incline to believe the opposite, as increased demand for the Vintage format would drive up the price of Pimp cards. I don't think anyone in the community (certainly no one who has voiced an opinion on this site so far) woudl prefer to run new frame ugly foil power over even unlimited power, and if any community of magic players is known for pimpage, its the vintage community.
i don;t have time to post a lengthly dissertation on this, but I'd really be shocked if Power took mush of a hit from a reprint run.
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Diakonov
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« Reply #104 on: March 09, 2010, 04:05:11 pm » |
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I think there needs to be a sharply defined tiered view of what should be reprinted and what should not be.
Dual lands (and other absolute essentials) are something that I think can safely be reprinted and will only have a positive effect all around.
However, reprinting something like the high cost power cards would be disastrous. The collectibility of magic has been a driving force behind players unquenchable desire to speculate upon and amass cards.
The problem of the shortage of power could be addressed by Wizards printing officially sanctioned proxies that are authorized for use in what could then be fully sanctioned tournaments. They could price set those (i.e. guarantee that they will always mail those out to whoever requests at a set price) and at a nominal fee (maybe $10 per proxy) and make them bland cards (i.e. true unsexy proxies). With their set price and unattractive quality they would carry a stigma attached to their use and they wouldn't challenge the bling factor or desirability of amassing true power for ones deck (just like handmade proxies nowadays really don't challenge the value of real power). The barrier of entry for many players would be removed but importantly the desirability of acquiring true power would still be there. Most Vintage tournaments are already proxy anyway but having sanctioned proxies would help regulate them in terms of what can be proxied and other factors, like the legibility of the proxies themselves. Also, it would provide Wizards with a way of profiting from Vintage in a way that hasn't been tapped into before.
Although, if WotC were printing them, they wouldn't be "proxies." How is it different than any other card they print if you can play it legally in sanctioned tournaments? On the main issue: Vintage boils down to being two things: a game, and a collection hobby. Since, unfortunately, there are certain cards which do not have an "accessible version" and also a "collectible version," Vintage is doomed for these two things to be at odds with one another as long as WotC maintains the Reserved List. Perhaps people might disagree with me, but I think it is unfortunate that this game we love, made from cardboard, is being limited by a lack of print-run. There are two aspects to the price of any card: A. the percentage it's worth because it is a necessity to be competitive, and B. the percentage it's worth purely for collectible purposes and nostalgia. If a card's worth comes entirely from type B (meaning it is pretty much unplayable), then I don't care if it's worth a million dollars. The key is that if it's necessary, it's only fair that the average person should be reasonably able to obtain it, meaning that any cards which are truly competitive ought to stay within a certain threshold of cost. Because I think everyone can agree that losing due to a lack of monetary investment sucks, we have the proxy system. So, in my mind, this whole debate comes down to how much it might bother us that proxies are ugly, annoying, keeps some potential players from being interested, and holds us out from pretty much any kind of sanctioned activity, compared to the potential downswing in prices on power from the diminishing of form A of their worth. Any time we are required to spend huge sums of money in order to compete, whether it be due to an extreme of Form A or, even worse, some hefty combination of A and B, it is ultimately bad for the game (but great for dealers and collectors). Just the fact that the proxy system is so widespread should say something. People won't play if they feel like it's an unfair environment, and with prices of power they way they are now, the format would practically be dead if it weren't for proxies. That said, it's probably obvious at this point that I believe power should be reprinted. I know it sucks for those who currently hold power, but it seems necessary for the game to move forward. On the bright side, it's worth noting that any value lost on the original power would be strictly Form A, and should correspond almost perfectly to an influx of new players or vanishing of proxies. It's a sacrifice that would truly benefit the Vintage community. Note: I am not suggesting that the concept of Form A of the price of a Magic card is inherently bad; I am simply saying that in the case of power it has gone way beyond the line of what I would consider reasonable. Historically, part of the game has always been trading and dealing playables like a mini stock market, and I think it's important to sustain that aspect. However, there is a big difference between a $50 Tarmogoyf and a $300 mox.
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VINTAGE CONSOLES VINTAGE MAGIC VINTAGE JACKETS Team Hadley 
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credmond
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« Reply #105 on: March 09, 2010, 06:28:24 pm » |
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I think there needs to be a sharply defined tiered view of what should be reprinted and what should not be.
Dual lands (and other absolute essentials) are something that I think can safely be reprinted and will only have a positive effect all around.
However, reprinting something like the high cost power cards would be disastrous. The collectibility of magic has been a driving force behind players unquenchable desire to speculate upon and amass cards.
The problem of the shortage of power could be addressed by Wizards printing officially sanctioned proxies that are authorized for use in what could then be fully sanctioned tournaments. They could price set those (i.e. guarantee that they will always mail those out to whoever requests at a set price) and at a nominal fee (maybe $10 per proxy) and make them bland cards (i.e. true unsexy proxies). With their set price and unattractive quality they would carry a stigma attached to their use and they wouldn't challenge the bling factor or desirability of amassing true power for ones deck (just like handmade proxies nowadays really don't challenge the value of real power). The barrier of entry for many players would be removed but importantly the desirability of acquiring true power would still be there. Most Vintage tournaments are already proxy anyway but having sanctioned proxies would help regulate them in terms of what can be proxied and other factors, like the legibility of the proxies themselves. Also, it would provide Wizards with a way of profiting from Vintage in a way that hasn't been tapped into before.
Although, if WotC were printing them, they wouldn't be "proxies." How is it different than any other card they print if you can play it legally in sanctioned tournaments? There's a world of difference. Imagine Wizards does exactly what I propose and there are now proxies that people can get for $10 that look like an obvious proxy meant for stand-in use for sanctioned tournament play. Would you trade your minty unlimited mox jet for one of those $10 proxies? Why not? How many then? Now, imagine the other scenario where Wizards prints out a new version of mox jet. Some minty foil sexy new art ultra rare thing. Would you trade your minty unlimited mox jet for one of those minty foil sexy new art ultra rare mox jet? Maybe not a 1 for 1 trade but they should be in the same ballpark of worth. Printing up proxies is a far more elegant and direct solution to the Vintage problem and it keeps the gist of the reprint policy intact.
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AmbivalentDuck
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Exile Ancestral and turn Tiago sideways.
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« Reply #106 on: March 09, 2010, 06:41:32 pm » |
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That's not a proxy, that's an "ugly" reprint. And yes, I'd happily trade a mint Beta Lotus for an "ugly" reprint and several thousand dollars.
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credmond
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« Reply #107 on: March 09, 2010, 06:49:32 pm » |
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That's not a proxy, that's an "ugly" reprint. And yes, I'd happily trade a mint Beta Lotus for an "ugly" reprint and several thousand dollars.
I don't know if you realize this, but you just proved my point. There would be a world of difference. You indicate about several thousand dollars or roughly the value of the entire mint Beta Lotus. Yup. That's right. The proxies would be worth $10 since everyone could acquire them directly at that price and the Beta Lotus would retain its value since its just as rare and desirable as it ever was. Now everyone can play Vintage. Problem solved.
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« Last Edit: March 09, 2010, 07:12:14 pm by credmond »
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AmbivalentDuck
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Exile Ancestral and turn Tiago sideways.
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« Reply #108 on: March 09, 2010, 07:13:49 pm » |
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Um, you missed the point. This "proxy" you suggest is in fact a reprint. That has immediate conflict with their reprint policy.
More pressing though, I don't value cardboard penis, so I WOULD SELL EVERY CARD I OWN to play with a cheaper reprint.
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credmond
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« Reply #109 on: March 09, 2010, 07:20:52 pm » |
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You can do that now. How many times a year do you play in sanctioned Vintage tournaments? Probably none. At least for most players it is probably none. All of them can sell their power and use proxies that they create for unsanctioned tournaments. And yet power currently retains its value in America.
Another way of looking at what I am proposing is that Wizards simply supports the use of proxies. Since almost all of the tournaments in America already do that it won't be that disruptive.
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« Last Edit: March 09, 2010, 07:25:19 pm by credmond »
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AmbivalentDuck
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« Reply #110 on: March 09, 2010, 07:22:40 pm » |
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How many times a year do you play in sanctioned Vintage tournaments? Xtreme Games holds a 25 proxy tournament that I try to attend monthly.
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honestabe
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« Reply #111 on: March 09, 2010, 07:31:06 pm » |
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How many times a year do you play in sanctioned Vintage tournaments? Xtreme Games holds a 25 proxy tournament that I try to attend monthly. WTF?
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As far as I can tell, the entire Vintage community is based on absolute statements
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« Reply #112 on: March 09, 2010, 08:18:19 pm » |
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I think there needs to be a sharply defined tiered view of what should be reprinted and what should not be.
Such a thing exists. It is called the reserved list.
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credmond
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« Reply #113 on: March 09, 2010, 10:00:45 pm » |
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I guess you didn't read the article. Stephen is advocating abolishing the reserved list and reprinting power.
I am advocating maintaining a revised reserved list (revised so that legacy staples are excluded from the list) and printing authorized proxies of power and sanctioning proxied Vintage tournaments to solve the "barrier of entry" problems affecting Legacy and Vintage.
I think my proposal directly addresses the problems at hand and avoids the problems that printing power would cause. Stephen's proposal is overkill. I don't think there are any problems that reprinting power would solve that printing proxies would solve more directly, more elegantly, and less disruptively. Importantly, the trust between Wizards and its community of players would be intact.
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RecklessEmbermage
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« Reply #114 on: March 10, 2010, 06:49:39 am » |
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I guess you didn't read the article. Stephen is advocating abolishing the reserved list and reprinting power.
I am advocating maintaining a revised reserved list (revised so that legacy staples are excluded from the list) and printing authorized proxies of power and sanctioning proxied Vintage tournaments to solve the "barrier of entry" problems affecting Legacy and Vintage.
I think my proposal directly addresses the problems at hand and avoids the problems that printing power would cause. Stephen's proposal is overkill. I don't think there are any problems that reprinting power would solve that printing proxies would solve more directly, more elegantly, and less disruptively. Importantly, the trust between Wizards and its community of players would be intact.
We got the point. And: "Proxy" is a representation of a card that you do not own. You use it either to playtest or in some tournaments that allow you to enter without owning a limited number of the cards your deck includes. What you are talking about would be reprinting.
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« Reply #115 on: March 10, 2010, 07:12:00 am » |
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I can't believe how many people here, especially what I'd consider elite players, are in favor of reprinting staples of the caliber of P9, FoW and duals. That it would make for a better, healthier format is wishful thinking. We can argue that it would bring more players to the average tournament, but more players does not make a better format. Look at how hard it is to find a quality Vintage opponent on MWS. I'm not even talking about how they play Stax, I'm talking about Forest -> Birds of Paradise.
I don't want WoTC spending their days trying to decide what cards to reprint even though they said they wouldn't. I want them printing new cards and revising erratas that can make old and overlooked cards actually playable. Ichorid is the most recent example. It successfully established itself as a serious archetype that can keep up with the good old Shop VS Drains VS Rituals.
The real problem is that Vintage gets no official support from WoTC. We get World Champs at GenCon without even the courtesy of a video archive of the Final match. Legacy is in the same boat, both formats have a horrible 'underground' feel to it, like we're some black sheep or outcasts of the general playing community. I'd argue that if high tier cards were to be reprinted, most people would do it just for collecting / dealing, since they'd have no knowledge of the formats in which they're legal.
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credmond
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« Reply #116 on: March 10, 2010, 10:37:22 am » |
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I guess you didn't read the article. Stephen is advocating abolishing the reserved list and reprinting power.
I am advocating maintaining a revised reserved list (revised so that legacy staples are excluded from the list) and printing authorized proxies of power and sanctioning proxied Vintage tournaments to solve the "barrier of entry" problems affecting Legacy and Vintage.
I think my proposal directly addresses the problems at hand and avoids the problems that printing power would cause. Stephen's proposal is overkill. I don't think there are any problems that reprinting power would solve that printing proxies would solve more directly, more elegantly, and less disruptively. Importantly, the trust between Wizards and its community of players would be intact.
We got the point. And: "Proxy" is a representation of a card that you do not own. You use it either to playtest or in some tournaments that allow you to enter without owning a limited number of the cards your deck includes. What you are talking about would be reprinting. Nope, printing proxies would in fact be printing proxies and not reprinting power. There are key differences here that some people seem to be missing. By printing proxies and sanctioning the use of proxies in tournaments you can stilll have some tournaments be non-proxy (for example the World Championships or Vintage Grand Prix). By extension the ability to use proxies could be revoked at any time. Proxies represent a license to use a card for another card for a sanctioned event given by an authoritative body. By making the proxy available upon demand from Wizards for a set price and not a trade commodity, the proxies that are printed won't compete with the authentic and rare commodities that are the power cards and they will never acquire the value that the power 9 cards have. And since nearly all tournaments are proxy tournaments in America, we can use America as a good case study of the impact my proposal would have. What I am proposing is in fact identical or nearly identical to Wizards simply sanctioning proxied tournaments. Except in my scenario, Wizards is additionally printing the proxies for you to use and providing them to players directly at a nominal charge and regulating their use. Those printed proxies won't devalue the worth of power any more than the wide spread use of proxies for most American players already has. I see most players nowadays acquiring power and keeping power and valuing power even though they always have the option of replacing it with a free home-made proxy that they provide. If your counterpoint was valid, American players would currently value power at a greatly diminished worth since they have free access to the use of proxies in what is for most players a scene that is entirely a proxy scene. However, they clearly do not.
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« Last Edit: March 10, 2010, 10:40:59 am by credmond »
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AmbivalentDuck
Tournament Organizers
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Posts: 2807
Exile Ancestral and turn Tiago sideways.
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« Reply #117 on: March 10, 2010, 11:25:05 am » |
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How many times a year do you play in sanctioned Vintage tournaments? Xtreme Games holds a 25 proxy tournament that I try to attend monthly. WTF? Sanctioned or otherwise, you need to own the deck within 25 proxies. An "official" proxy would still count towards that limit. An ugly reprint would not.
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Nehptis
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« Reply #118 on: March 10, 2010, 11:26:19 am » |
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I don't want WoTC spending their days trying to decide what cards to reprint even though they said they wouldn't. I want them printing new cards and revising erratas that can make old and overlooked cards actually playable.
Well said. WOTC should unburden themselves from the Reserved List. I haven't seen a convincing arguement, with examples, to persuade me that reprints would have a sustained negative impact on collectible card value. I have seen countless examples to support the opposite view that reprints would in fact not negatively impact value in the long run. I don't want to see my UL Power or Set of Revised Lands plummet in value. But, the burden of proof is on the folks who believe that an abolishment of the RL will in fact cause that to happen.
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silvernail
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« Reply #119 on: March 10, 2010, 11:28:22 am » |
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A "sanctioned proxy" is just another way of saying reprint. The only difference is the added baggage that Wizards could disallow use of these so called proxies at any time. That is equivalent to saying Lightning Bolt from M2010 is legal while all other versions are considered 'proxies' and potentially may be made 'illegal' at some point in the future. This is a horrible idea.
I don't think power should be reprinted, but other high value cards and staple cards should be reprinted. By reprinting potentially anything but power the format's entry barrier would lower dramatically. By not reprinting power there is still something people can look to as a long term goal.
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