Terastodon Oath

[voltron00x]

Matt, what about Ponder over Thirst in your list?  I think Ponder is better than Thirst, esp. in a metagame where MUD is so popular. I'd rather have Ponder against Fish and TPS, too.  

that's perfectly reasonable also. I like tfk for the mirror / tezz match but ponder is always solid. I liked twister a lot but tendrils coming back into the metagame makes it a little risky.

[Sporkcore]

Matt, what about Ponder over Thirst in your list?  I think Ponder is better than Thirst, esp. in a metagame where MUD is so popular. I'd rather have Ponder against Fish and TPS, too.  

that's perfectly reasonable also. I like tfk for the mirror / tezz match but ponder is always solid. I liked twister a lot but tendrils coming back into the metagame makes it a little risky.

Pft... the only "local" tendrils player I'd be worried about is Beaver. That man can luck sac like no other.

[Malakai]

From Matt's article:

Let that sink in for a minute. You can now race some of the key opposition in the format in a way that fits seamlessly into your deck, and on top of that, you get additional protection against opposing hate cards post-board.

That is horrifying.

This leads me to believe untargeted hate may be the way to go.  I realize Ravenous Trap is the hardest for them to play around, but it seems like it might be better at this point to run 4 Leylines of the Void, plus some other hate--perhaps even Jailors.  What do you guys think?

[Cyberpunker]

From Matt's article:

Let that sink in for a minute. You can now race some of the key opposition in the format in a way that fits seamlessly into your deck, and on top of that, you get additional protection against opposing hate cards post-board.

That is horrifying.

This leads me to believe untargeted hate may be the way to go.  I realize Ravenous Trap is the hardest for them to play around, but it seems like it might be better at this point to run 4 Leylines of the Void, plus some other hate--perhaps even Jailors.  What do you guys think?

So its Dredge's turn to mulligan until it gets Leylines? 

[Odd mutation]

Hi Matt,

Congratulations on your results!

Why is there no Regrowth in your list anymore? I think it's really powerful: get anything you played of importance back in your hand, after an Oath activiation it can be amazing and with Gifts Ungiven it's really good. Could you please explain? Thanks.

Robrecht

[voltron00x]

Honestly, I only played with Regrowth a few times.  I tried it in Terastodon Oath in testing but cut it before playing with the deck in any tournaments.  The card is very strong, but I think that a lot of people assign too much value to it simply because it is Restricted.  When I started out testing Rich / Brad's lists back in March / April, Regrowth was one of the first cards I cut.  As much as I like it, I often find it to be either win more or do nothing. 

[Rico Suave]

Without a real draw engine, control in general (and Oath as a result) have become heavily reliant on tutoring up Ancestral early and using it to get the juices flowing.  With such a focus on that one card in particular, some of the other cards in the deck can be justified if only because of the fact they work well with this approach.

Regrowth is one such card.  If then plan is to find Ancestral, it just so happens that Regrowth helps pretend like the deck is running a draw engine when in reality it's just recycling. 

Another example is 4 Spell Pierce.  Some people have described Spell Pierce as great on offense but weak on defense, and thus they don't feel comfortable running 4 of it in a control deck, but if the plan is to stick an early Ancestral then I'd run 5-6 Pierce if I could.

Anyway it really depends on a lot of factors.  Regrowth isn't too stellar in the Workshop or Dredge matches, which are pretty important, and there are certainly a lot of cards fighting to get into the deck.  I think most of it depends on playstyle as much as I hate using that excuse. 

[voltron00x]

Without a real draw engine, control in general (and Oath as a result) have become heavily reliant on tutoring up Ancestral early and using it to get the juices flowing.  With such a focus on that one card in particular, some of the other cards in the deck can be justified if only because of the fact they work well with this approach.

Regrowth is one such card.  If then plan is to find Ancestral, it just so happens that Regrowth helps pretend like the deck is running a draw engine when in reality it's just recycling. 

Another example is 4 Spell Pierce.  Some people have described Spell Pierce as great on offense but weak on defense, and thus they don't feel comfortable running 4 of it in a control deck, but if the plan is to stick an early Ancestral then I'd run 5-6 Pierce if I could.

Anyway it really depends on a lot of factors.  Regrowth isn't too stellar in the Workshop or Dredge matches, which are pretty important, and there are certainly a lot of cards fighting to get into the deck.  I think most of it depends on playstyle as much as I hate using that excuse. 

So you're saying the fact that I played 6 / 7 matches against Shops or Dredge last tournament could be coloring my feelings on Regrowth? 

If so... you're probably correct.

[TheWhiteDragon]

I am not a fan of regrowth.  I tried it several times in various decks, and the closest I found a home to it was in Tyrant Oath back in the 4x gush days.  In that deck, you almost always milled a mox, and juggling moxen meant storm win.  Also, if you had two moxen, regrowth was the spell to bounce one, and target your milled brainfreeze or tendrils or whatever.  It had use there.

Nowadays, regrowth is just not as good in oath.  Tyrant/storm is not the typical kill thanks to cards like Iona and Tera having immediate big impact.  Also, with MUD and golem stax being so popular, modern oath critters can operate under sphere effects and with little or no mana.   Tyrant needs to be able to cast spells to have a prayer, and often are then just playing board control while swinging over 5 turns rather than going spell nuts and storming out.  Since this critter was phased out, so was regrowth.

Regrowth/ancestral is a poor draw engine.  Jace is just better.  See beyonds might even be better.  A blanket of diggers and tutors (ponder, sensei, dt, vamp, merch, mystical) with a few real draws (ancestral, brainstorm) help the deck find its bombs, which it is dense with (4 oath, tinker, vault, tezz, [jace, show and tell]).  Regrowth is only as good as what was cast.  This is the biggest problem with it.  

If you are regrowing ancestral, you should have already drawn ino a tutor or a threat or more draw.  Regrowth itself could be the tutor as imp seal is usually not run and is cheaper, still sorcery, and any card in your deck (threat, draw, counter).  
If your ancestral was countered, regrowth could have been the disruption spell that made it resolve.  Disruption can protect a threat or stop your opponent's shenanigans as well, rather than retroactively recoup a countered spell for more mana to recast.
If you are regrowing a threat, regrowth could have been another threat, tutor for a threat, or engine like Jace (or again, the disruption that makes your first attempt resolve).
If you are regrowing after oathing, you should already be winning the game.  The times where regrowing timewalk or whatever will stop you from losing on you passing the turn is extremely minimal, esp. if running critters with immediate impact.
If you are regrowing a counter, not only should regrowth just be a counter, you also let your opponent know you have a counter in hand now, so they can play around it.
Most importantly though, if you are early in the game, where you need to be putting on pressure, regrowth often has no good targets.  It is counting on your threat or bomb to be countered.  In this case, being a tutor, threat, or digger itself is WAY more useful.  A hand with imp seal, some protection and mana is MUCH better than a hand of the same with regrowth in the place of imp seal (or almost any spell at that point).  

I still run gifts myself, and do just fine with any pile even without regrowth.  If I resolve gifts, I almost always win or have strong advantage.  A pile of any four of oath, tinker, DT, yawgwill, ancestral, vamp, tezz, etc. will almost always crush your opponent.  Regrowth is 95% win more or dead card.  It is almost always better as something else (imp seal my personal choice).

[Metman]

Regrowth is everything that Oath needs.  Interestingly I just now thought of Oath in a different light.  It is a permanent based combo deck, obviously based on Oath/Orchard or Vault/Key as opposed to a instant/sorcery combo deck like Storm.  Regrowth serves all the purposes Oath needs it to.  It's a combo piece, a counter, a draw spell, or a tutor.  It turns out that it's a very dynamic and flexible spell.  The argument that it is win more is a moot one.  Gifts Ungiven or Tinker are win more if you have the position assembled to win a game.  Regrowth is a 2cc spell, functional both early and late in the game, and it's on color.  I can't believe the argument that Regrowth is only as good as the spells you've played before it; this is vintage isn't it, the format with Black Lotus, Ancestral Recall, Tinker, and Yawgmoth's Will? 

[quicksilvervii]

I'm still on the fence with regrowth.  When I've played with it, I wasn't impressed.  Right now I'm testing without, and there are times that I've missed it.

What is everyone's plan on dealing with the new white leyline?  Especially against dredge and fish?
Seems to shut off a lot of dredge hate, and I'm not sure about having to rely on tinker so much games 2-3 against fish.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

I cut regrowth and gift the last event i played in. I never missed gifts, but I sure did miss regrowth.

[H]

Nature's Claim the Leyline?  Or there is always an emergency bounce possible.  If you can Oath once you are probably set (Terastodon can ruin their mana to replay it, Iona can name white).

Has anyone tested Preordain?  It seems good, but i can't really figure what to cut for them.  I have been running voltron00x's list to good effect.  I have found See Beyond a possible candidate and maybe Thirst for Knowledge.  Both cost too much in the Mud/Stax heavy environment i tend to see, i think.  Although that does open me up to more of a Chalice on 1 blowout.  I guess it's still better than Chalice on 2 though,  

On Regrowth, i haven't really tried it in something like the list i am running now.  I like that it can make an EOT Gift's even more of a blowout than it usually is, going Vault, Key, Will, Regrowth ; win game.  But it is truly a situational card.  It never does anything by itself is a bit of a problem.  I like it, but with all the MUD around, i am not sure it is great where i am playing.

[TheWhiteDragon]

@metman:

Regrowth is everything that Oath needs.  Interestingly I just now thought of Oath in a different light.  It is a permanent based combo deck, obviously based on Oath/Orchard or Vault/Key as opposed to a instant/sorcery combo deck like Storm.  Regrowth serves all the purposes Oath needs it to.  It's a combo piece, a counter, a draw spell, or a tutor.  It turns out that it's a very dynamic and flexible spell.  The argument that it is win more is a moot one.  Gifts Ungiven or Tinker are win more if you have the position assembled to win a game.  Regrowth is a 2cc spell, functional both early and late in the game, and it's on color.  I can't believe the argument that Regrowth is only as good as the spells you've played before it; this is vintage isn't it, the format with Black Lotus, Ancestral Recall, Tinker, and Yawgmoth's Will? 

Regrowth is NOT all that oath needs.  It can be a useful spell midgame or early if you happened to do busted things in the first 2 turns.  But if it were a real tutor or justanother busted spell, it'd be better.

A combo piece you say?  Usually when I drop mox, orchard, regrowth I don't get a fatty in play.  Land, mox, oath with regrowth in hand, tends to not win either.

Counter?  Yes, I love playing 2 lands and a mox, tinkering to get my sphinx and then answering my opponent's counter by pitching mana drain to my...regrowth.  Even if it got back the tinker, it couldn't be cast again for 2 more turns and not without a mox.  If I regrow an oath, I have taken a turn to regrowth and then another turn to recast oath.  If it were just imp seal, I probably could do the same, or might even be able to seal after oath gets countered if I have 3 mana.  If I regrowth an actual counterspell, I might as well give my opponent a free clairvoyance so they can be sure to play around it.

Draw spell?  In a deck with only ancestral and brainstorm as draw, topdecking that regrowth or having it in my opening tends to give me a lot less gas than an actual draw spell or tutor for one.

A tutor?  I mean, really?  So when I play mox, orchard, regrowth I get to put oath in my hand?  Or find my orchard or tinker with regrowth?  If it is regrowing a threat that was countered, wouldn't a REAL tutor find me the same threats but also be good in my opening hand without my first attempt being foiled?

The fact that it IS only as good as what you have cast makes it not optimal.  Ancestral, DT, tinker, lotus....those all have impact by themselves, on turn 1, independent of what has been cast.  Tinker can actually put a substantial threat in play fast (sphinx) whereas regrowth does nothing to put pressure on the opponent unless it is grabbing a countered threat that WAS the pressure.  Yawg will is the only card I can see being comparable to regrowth.  In fact, they are both useless in opening hands.  The difference is, regrowth grabs back 1 card, where as yawg will, for 1 mana more, says replay your ENTIRE graveyard.  Quite a big difference.  Regrowing an oath is nice.  Regrowing my lotus, ancestral, oath, timewalk, ponder, and land all on the same card is infinitely better.

Regrowth is flexible if you have a grave with a counter, combo piece that you need, tutor, and draw spell.  If you have none of those in the dirt, then the card does a lot of squat.  If you have only one of those things, then regrowth is just a copy of that spell.  It may make gifts good, but I have rarely lost a game where I resolved a gifts for yawg will, ancestral, DT, oath, or some absurd mix of threats, tutors, and draw.  Gifts and tinker and yawgwill (and EVERY other card in the deck) is win more if I am in the position to win.  If I have emrakul ready to swing and Iona locking you out of a key color, then yes, anything is win more.  But if I am not in a position to win, a draw spell helps me find threats, a counter helps me play defense or protect threats, a tutor helps me find a threat, and a threat..well, you get it.  A regrowth on the other hand is not pressure, a counter, a tutor, or anything good at all unless I combo it with gifts or have had my real threats disrupted.  Regrowth tends to be a win more in that it has the best targets available to it after I have oathed (meaning I have my main threat online already, and it has triggered, and now fatty is already on the tabel and I should be wrapping things up shortly).  I'll agree that mid-late game regrowth can be useful, but no more useful than a tutor like imp seal.  A tutor however is good on turn 1 and can function on an empty grave, whereas regrowth is just a dead card for the first few turns.

[mutedequilibrium]

Took 2nd at a small tournament this last weekend with Ben's list. Wrote up a report here: http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=40889.0

[Marske]

Here's the Oath list I played  in our "small" Vintage weekly event (I took first) as seen here. We normally have around 8-10 people but this time due to vacation and what not we we're down to 4 (all 4 of us multiple top 8 contenders / event winners so overall Vintage "masters") for basically a play test session. Still I wanted to share the list with you guys.

RND: Iona Stone Oath

Lands
4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Island
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Forest

Artifact Mana
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring

Combo
4 Oath of Druids
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Terastodon
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key

Recursion
1 Time Twister
1 Krosan Reclamation
1 Yawgmoth's Will

Disruption
4 Force of Will
3 Mana Drain
3 Spell Pierce
2 Thoughtseize

Draw
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Time Walk
1 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Ponder
1 Jace, The Mindsculptor

Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Gifts Ungiven

Sideboard
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 3 Nature's Claim
SB: 1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
SB: 1 Extirpate
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Tinker
SB: 1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
SB: 1 Show and Tell
SB: 1 Mindbreak Trap

EDIT:
Explanation regarding why stuff is in the deck etc will follow.

[Troy_Costisick]

So has Show and Tell lost favor now?

[Cyberpunker]

No sir 

[Troy_Costisick]

No sir 

Good!  I like the card a lot going into GenCon.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

Has anyone tested Preordain?  It seems good, but I can't really figure what to cut for them.  I have been running voltron00x's list to good effect.  I have found See Beyond a possible candidate and maybe Thirst for Knowledge.  Both cost too much in the Mud/Stax heavy environment i tend to see, i think.  Although that does open me up to more of a Chalice on 1 blowout.  I guess it's still better than Chalice on 2 though,  

A neat thing about that is most players tend to cotv@2 against oath first, instead of @1, for fear of you dropping oath. Keeping that in mind, cotv@2 counters cotv @1. So it really doesn't come up too often. If your opponant resolves cotv @1 and then @2 a ton, you're proably doinging something wrong. Like tapping out at the wrong times, fetching wrong, or the game was already lost, or something.

[H]

You are absolutely right.  Mind you, no one has ever put a Chalice on 1 on me when i was playing Oath.

I was just trying to brainstorm some downside's to playing Preordain.  The way MUD is represented in my metagame here, it is almost a guarantee you will see 2-3 MUD/Stax mach-ups per tournament on average.  I am trying to find a way to get a better game one matchup vs. sphere effects.  Gifts tends to get to the point of being completely uncastable in those games where a sphere or two resolves.  I was thinking at least Preordain could be cast through a sphere.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

Ah, I see. I've been testing see beyond in the gifts slot for the "put my dudes back" effect.

[mutedequilibrium]

Ah, I see. I've been testing see beyond in the gifts slot for the "put my dudes back" effect.

Wouldn't this cause issues if they stuck a CotV @ 2? At least Show and Tell gives you another way to get your guys out.

[Delha]

Ah, I see. I've been testing see beyond in the gifts slot for the "put my dudes back" effect.

Wouldn't this cause issues if they stuck a CotV @ 2? At least Show and Tell gives you another way to get your guys out.

If you're staring down Chalice @ 2, I don't think putting fatties back in matters so much, since you can't cast Oath anyway. Not being able to dig for your bounce probably sucks though.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

Ah, I see. I've been testing see beyond in the gifts slot for the "put my dudes back" effect.

Wouldn't this cause issues if they stuck a CotV @ 2? At least Show and Tell gives you another way to get your guys out.

or there's the multiple natures claim is sb.

[mistervader]

Due to the lack of storm combo in our meta (I'm the only active one.), I ran and won with this deck last night...

4 Misty Rainforest
3 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
1 Library of Alexandria
2 Island
1 Forest
4 Forbidden Orchard

1 Tinker
1 Yawgomoth’s Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Timewalk

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Tezzeret, the Seeker

4 Oath of Druids

4 Force of Will
3 Mana Drain
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Gift’s Ungiven
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm

1 Timevault
1 Voltaic Key
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt

Sideboard:
2 Ravenous Trap
2 Pithing Needle
2 Yixlid Jailer
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Hurkyl’s Recall
1 Rebuild
2 Show and Tell
3 Nature’s Claim

Here's a brief tournament report...

Round 1 - versus unpowered Shops (Resley)

Game 1 - Oath went online early enough, because he couldn't drop any relevant lockpieces to stop me from getting Sphinx into play. But then, he hit it with Duplicant. I Oath into Terastodon, destroy my manabase and Oath for tokens, then proceed to attack him with Terastodon. He scooped before the lethal damage was dealt.

Boarding plan: - 2 Planeswalkers, - 1 Iona, - 2 Spell Snare, - 1 Gifts Ungiven, + 2 Hurk's, + 1 Rebuild, + 3 Nature's Claim.

Game 2 - He opened with a Trinisphere after I kept a stable hand that would've withstood any other sphere effect. Nertz. He then cast Metalworker, then on his turn 3, activated it, and capped me. As you will notice, I boarded out kill conditions to streamline myself against him, which may not have been the smartest thing to do on the draw. Maybe on the play, this would've been better. This is why I kept my board going into game 3.

Game 3 - Tinkered into Sphinx on turn 1. He tried to steal it on his turn 2 with Duplicant, but Force Of Will was waiting. A few swings later, I won. It was that anti-climactic.

(1-0)

Round 2 - versus Hex Depths (Ponzie)

Game 1 - Had a good, controlling hand, so he didn't have a chance to disrupt me. I Spell Snared his turn 2 Confidant, then got Oath going with Orchard the turn after. From there, Sphinx came in, I countered his kicked Gatekeeper, Iona came in, and that was game.

Boarding: Absolutely nothing.

Game 2 - He opened with Leyline (He also did this game 1, but this time it was relevant.). I opened with a hand that had first turn Oath. But he had different ideas. Dark Ritual x 2, Helm of Obedience, activate, win.

Game 3 - I started off by holding onto a shaky hand with Oath but no Orchard, mana, and some cantrips, so I went ahead with it. He played a land, then Duressed me. I Twistered on my turn to sorta reset the game, as my hand was non-happening. He went with Dark Ritual, cast Confidant. I cackled with glee inwardly when I cast Oath the turn after. I oathed into Sphinx. I attacked him, then he took his turn. He Vamp'd on his turn, and I had a feeling I knew what was coming. I attacked again, getting myself well above 20 life in the process, rendering me capable of dealing with an attack from a 20/20, just in case. As predicted, on his turn, he did the Hexmage combo. I Oathed into Iona, thereby making it a stalemate. I can't attack, as he's at 8, and if he blocks one of my critters, I'd lose the stalemate. He can't attack as he will lose his only blocker. Confidant was getting lucky flips, but my library was depleted after two Oaths (Terastodon was in my hand.). I ripped Vampiric Tutor on the third stalemate turn. I Vamp'd, and found out I still have a Jace in my library. I used him to bounce the token, then win with beats.

(2-0)

Round 3 - versus Red Hate

Game 1 - I realized I was facing a deck that was designed to take down Stax, especially on the play. It had artifact hate up the wazoo, and Moon effects galore. Unfortunately for him, after a few turns of feeling things out with me, I got down to business, and cast Tinker. Apparently, he had zero outs to the Sphinx maindeck.

Sideboarding: -1 Gifts Ungiven, -1 Timetwister, +2 Show and Tell

Game 2 - To be honest, I didn't know if I boarded out the right cards, but I knew I was boarding in the right ones. He opened with nothing of much consequence, I Show and Tell into the Sphinx, and I discover that he had zero outs to the Sphinx even post-board.

(3-0)

Round 4 - versus Dredge (Marco)

Game 1 - This was the deck I didn't want to face, as it was my absolute worst matchup. He found his Bazaar, I couldn't find Oath, then he started racing me with tokens. By the time I got Oath in play, he was already set to Dread Return me, so I naturally lost horribly.

Sideboarding: -3 Planeswalkers, -2 Spell Snare, -1 Gifts Ungiven, -1 Library Of Alexandria, +2 Ravenous Trap, + 2 Pithing Needle, + 2 Yixlid Jailer, + 1 Relic Of Progenitus

Game 2 - I opened by putting a Needle on the Bazaar. He opened by playing an Undiscovered Paradise, as he apparently didn't have Bazaar, to begin with. This probably meant that he also didn't have any Dredgers, as well. On turn 2, I played Oath. He drew, did nothing of consequence. On my turn, I played Yixlid Jailer. Surprisingly, he didn't Oath (I'd personally do that, if I were in his shoes.). He tried to Darkblast the Jailer, I Pierced it. After two beats, he hardcast a Bloodghast, and that meant I had to behave to keep his yard from getting crazy. I played a second needle on Bazaar. End of his turn, he bounced both the Jailer and the Oath, then used the Bloodghast to Therapy my Oath away. He brought back the Ghast by playing a land. I replayed Yixlid, and we hit another impasse. I found Voltaic Key. Two turns later, I found Tinker, then he scooped from there.

Game 3 - He Unmasked my Oath. Bummer. He then hit Bazaar, which I thankfully had a Strip Mine for. Unfortunately, he had a second Bazaar, but surprisingly, still no Dredgers, and only Bloodghast. I managed to topdeck Oath, which got me Sphinx of the Steel Wind. He tried racing me by getting more critters into play through Bazaar, but after Oathing a Jailer and a Terastodon which destroyed my own Oath, he scooped to me.

(4-0)

Round 5 - versus BGW Zoo (Dragzz)

I scooped to him for strategic reasons, because I figured putting him in the Top 4 meant I'd deal with one less Dredge deck later.

(4-1)

Semis - versus BGW Zoo (Dragzz)

Game 1 - Clearly, my plan paid off, as I shuffled against the guy whom earlier, in casual games, was decimated by Oath. I opened with a first-turn Tinker, and had Vault-Key on the next turn.

Sideboarding: -1 Jace, -1 Tezzeret,  +2 Show And Tell

Game 2 - He opened with Confidant. I go do a long sequence of plays on turn 2 involving Tutors and the like, and end up having Vault-Key online on my turn 1. Sadly, I had to do this with Mana Crypt in play. I took one turn, and guess what I topdecked? Oath of Druids. He scooped from there.

Finals - versus Faerie Fish (Jaderyl)

Game 1 - His plan was firing on all cylinders, and it was clear that the protracted counterbattle could only favor him, as he was outdrawing me, two to one, thanks to his Skullclamp + Faerie engine. I ended up double Oathing when it was too late, as he had Painter, Clique, and another critter or two in play. I misplayed my Terastodon by giving him three tokens when i should've given him only two, and I didn't have enough blockers to stop the bleeding. I was down to four, and with only two blockers against Painter, Clique, and two elephant tokens, I wasn't gonna make it.

Sideboarding: -2 Spell Pierce, -1 Timetwister, -1 Gifts Ungiven, -1 Jace, -1 Tezzeret, + 3 Nature's Claim, + 1 Pithing Needle, + 2 Show And Tell

Game 2 - To this moment, I don't know if siding out my Planeswalkers so often was a good move, but it seemed like it at the time. I know I didn't miss Gifts at all, though, and might replace that card altogether with something else, anything else. Twister was there for the anti-Dredge prayer. Anyways, this was a crazy game. I did land, Mox, go. He opened with a Top. I opened with Tinker on turn 2, and it got through. Aries was searching through his deck like crazy, trying to stem the bleeding, when he dropped down to 2, and managed to play Glen Elendra to stall out for two more turns. On one occasion, he played a land, did a long sequence of plays involving Top and fetching, then played another land, which we were very quick to point out. Just when he was down to 1 because he ran out of chump blockers against the Sphinx, he spun the top into an Echoing Truth and bounced it. From there, we were in an attrition war. I tried hardcasting it, and he countered it, then had two spirit tokens to attack me with. My life was brought down by a combination of beats and unlucky rolls for the Mana Crypt I had in play, until I was down to 29 life. He stabilized his life total with Claws of Gix at this point. I tried casting Show and Tell, that also got countered. He was outdrawing me because his Clamp engine was on the go again, but he didn't have enough critters to spare this time. He even did his double land-drop play a second time, this time more conspicuously, what with *two Wastelands*. Yes, that was caught a second time. Finally, when all hope seemed to be lost, I topdecked a Mox Pearl, thereby putting me at 9 mana with WWW to spare, and hardcast Iona for the game.

Game 3 - He opened with Mox, Land. I opened with Brainstorm, Time Walk. I topdecked Tinker and put Sphinx into play. He Curfewed the Tinker, EOT. I tried to Show and Tell, he drained it. He used the Drain mana to cast Time Vault and Top. I then went ahead and ripped Lotus from the topdeck, already holding Will. I go for Will, then replay Tinker after I reused a Brainstorm, then replayed Time Walk. I swung for 6, then he tried to find his bounce. Spell Snare, FOW, and Nature's Claim were ready for him.

From there, I won the tournament, in grueling fashion. Not a single Oath activation in my last two games!

[Odd mutation]

Did anybody have any problems with Jace being attacked by Orchard tokens regularly?
Especially when games go long I seem to be running into that problem, or it's really hampering my development when I draw one or two Forbiddan Orchards. That's one of the reasons I'm wondering about cutting Jace and abandoning the Time Vault plan for other, more disruptive spells and a return to a dedicated Oath of Druids plan, although still with Terastodon.

I'm retooling my Oath list to better be able to fight the new Jace Control lists and MUD lists. These games are always close... I also feel like I need to improve my Drain Tendrils and TPS matchup. Times have changed and I think Oath needs to change as well, while still being a good choice if built correctly. The strength of the double angle of attack (Jace Control + Oath) is becoming a weakness in my opinion. You're just never as strong as a dedicated Jace control deck and it's weakening your Oath plan.
My Fish and Dredge matchup have been good with extra sideboard options. MUD is depending a lot on who gets to go first and if they have Chalice of the Void or not. It's not a bad matchup but not a terribly good one either.

I'm playing Ancient Grudge again... and I'm looking at Chalice of the Void and especially Null Rod to make an (re)appearance.
Show and Tell has proven to be really strong, I don't worry too much anymore about drawing my creatures. With Show and Tell they become a threat in your hand! You have to be careful though because your opponent get's the opportunity to put that Time Vault or Sower of Temptation into play for free as well. Another reason I like Null Rod, Ancient Grudge, Nature's Claim and Red Elmenetal Blast.
I have 3 Thoughtseizes main and at least 3 Red Elemental Blasts in the sideboard.

Opinions?

Maybe cutting Jace is too harsh though...

Robrecht

[mistervader]

Orchard tokens attacking my Jace has never come up, simply because I don't play Orchards unless I have plans of Oathing up creatures.

You run a bigger number of lands than the average deck. I personally don't find it too difficult to hold off on playing Orchard until there's an Oath that goes with it, or you have a big play worth giving them a token ahead of schedule for.

The Time Vault strategy might be up for debate though if Null Rods are at an all-time high in your area, but as they aren't so in my meta, I'd still run the Vault-Key combo in my version of Oath.

[Cyberpunker]

So guys, with GAT apparently back in the fray what do you guys think about Elephant Oath in the current metagame?

Do you guys still believe (like I do though I may be wrong) that Elephant Oath is still the strongest deck right now? Why or Why not?

To start off, I believe that it still is because GAT runs 4 Tarmogoyfs/4 Dryads(I hope as should you that they run both ) as its main kill condition (aside from KeyVault which we both run). It is like the Dark Confidant versus Oath matchup except now their guys do not even draw them cards.

The main factor is going to be how good Gush is. Do you think that Elephant Oath would have problems trying to both outcounter and outthreat GAT?
After all, imagine a Gush that is countered! >< 2 islands returned to their hand and they get nothing . The main thing is whether GAT can both handle Elephant Oath's threats while still resolving Gush to outdraw us.

[Sextiger]

GAT wouldn' t run Goyfs, it runs 3 Trygon Predators/4 Dryads  in addition to Spell Pierce/Duress/Force/Nature's Claim disruption.  You may have a good shot game 1, but game 2 they bring in even more Claims and I can't imagine Oath being able to handle the pressure.