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Author Topic: Belltower Stax  (Read 6010 times)
BruiZar
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« on: June 07, 2010, 12:15:36 pm »

BELLTOWER STAX
4   Badlands
4   Mishra's Workshop
3   Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1   Bazaar of Baghdad
1   Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1   Tolarian Academy
1   Bloodstained Mire
1   Strip Mine
3   Wasteland
1   Mox Emerald
1   Mox Ruby
1   Mox Jet
1   Mox Pearl
1   Sol Ring
1   Black Lotus
2   Triskelion
4   Lodestone Golem
4   Smokestack
4   Dark Confidant
3   Tangle Wire
4   Sphere of Resistance
2   Kormus Bell
3   Crucible of Worlds
3   Null Rod
3   Goblin Welder
1   Trinisphere
1   Darkblast
1 Earwig Squad

   Sideboard
1   Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1   Ravenous Trap
3   Greater Gargadon
3   Rack and Ruin
2   Red Elemental Blast
2   Relic of Progenitus
2   Tormod's Crypt
2 Earwig Squad

Card Explanation

Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
*Makes your Bazaar, Mishra's Workshop and Tabernacle tap for mana.
*Ensures consistent turn 1 and turn 2 Dark Confidants
*With Kormus Bell, it makes every land a 1/1 creature

Bazaar of Baghdad
*Primarily to fuel Goblin Welder
*Drawback is offsetted by the use of Dark Confidant
*Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth helps make Bazaar of Baghdad more useful

Dark Confidant
*Draw engine of the deck
*Easily castable

Triskelion
*Works as an Armageddon once Kormus Bell is active
*Goblin Welder can abuse it
*Helps with overall beats and control versus aggro decks

Lodestone Golem
*Increases clock with Juggernaut body
*Sphere effect

Trinisphere
*Sphere effect
*Gives time to drop Null Rod / Kormus Bell

Crucible of Worlds
*Strip locks
*Recur Tabernacle after you armageddon/wrath of god your opponent with an active Kormus Bell

Null Rod
*Helps the mana denial route of the deck
*Only 3 because you really don't want to see more than 1 each game. Sphere effects help to get a turn 1 lockpiece out

Smokestack
*Welder tricks
*Active Kormus Bell with a smokestack means that your opponent won't be able to tap for mana

Tangle Wire
*This thing is a triple time walk

Dark Blast
*Randomly snipers Dark Confidants of your opponent (or your own vs dredge)
*Randomly snipers off enemy lands with Kormus Bell
*Goblin Welder and Crucible of Worlds can abuse the dredge mechanic

Kormus Bell
Combo with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
*Makes all lands unable to tap for mana the turn it comes into play (Summoning Sickness)
*Makes your opponent's mana base very vulnerable to Darkblast, Tabernacle and Triskelion
*Increases utility of Tangle Wire because your opponent gets tapped out first, then plays an untapped land, which can't tap for mana (Think Tolarian Academy for Hurkyll's Recall)
*Increases utility of Smokestack because your opponent has to sack first, then plays an untapped land, which does nothing, the next turn, he gets to sack the land he just played.
*Serves as a win condition through lands

Earwig Squad
*Prowls with Goblin Welder
*Prowl cost easily affordable with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
*Extra juggernaut


The name comes from Kormus Bell and Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale. Sun Tower is also a legacy stax variant.

This list is designed to more aggresively attack the board than other builds. It uses the BR framework and it needs to get fixed up a bit. The idea is to use Null Rod to slow down degenerate starts, and attack the mana base using strip locks and Kormus Bell / Urborg. I have specifically avoided adding too much creature removal, to avoid dead draws. There is Tabernacle, Darkblast and 2 Triskelions. The trikes might have to go due to the dissynergy with Null Rod. Maybe replace it for Razormane Masticore or Lava Dart? RMM can be fueled with Confidants. I am still debating whether or not I should play a random Sinkhole or two. Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth allows me to get the  {B} {B} rather consistently, and the extra land destruction does help a bit.

I may get rid of the Spheres OR the Lodestone Golems in exchange for cards like Karn, Silver Golems and Gorilla Shamans, to decrease having to rely on Null Rod and avoid getting hosed by Hurkyll's Recall. Also, Goblin Welder can take advantage of actual board destruction much better than Null Rod can.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2010, 04:15:29 pm by BruiZar » Logged
Killane
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« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2010, 02:20:06 pm »

You do have to pay for your own lands under Bell/Tabernacle - this seems too symetrical.
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Delha
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« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2010, 02:29:10 pm »

You do have to pay for your own lands under Bell/Tabernacle - this seems too symetrical.
Maybe Plaguebearer instead of Tabernable? You get to wreck the opponent's board immediately this way.

I've repeatedly failed to build an even casually viable "Plaguebearer+Jorael/Living Lands/etc" style deck. The Urborg/Bell interaction here really caught my eye.
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« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2010, 02:39:15 pm »

I've been wanting to play Braids, Cabal Minion in Stax. Perhaps this is the right place for it?
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« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2010, 02:40:32 pm »

You do have to pay for your own lands under Bell/Tabernacle - this seems too symetrical.
Maybe Plaguebearer instead of Tabernable? You get to wreck the opponent's board immediately this way.

I've repeatedly failed to build an even casually viable "Plaguebearer+Jorael/Living Lands/etc" style deck. The Urborg/Bell interaction here really caught my eye.

This seems interesting. Plaguebearer would have some random applications vs Fish as well in the late game.
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« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2010, 03:23:22 pm »

Maybe Plaguebearer instead of Tabernable? You get to wreck the opponent's board immediately this way.
This seems interesting. Plaguebearer would have some random applications vs Fish as well in the late game.
I'd be really stoked if the card saw use in any remotely competitive deck. I've felt for a while that there really ought to be some way to break it, even if my back-burner musings never found one.
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« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2010, 05:23:28 pm »

Braids, Cabal Minion looks like it could earn a one-off spot in this deck. The reason for this is because it is a smokestack that starts with a soot counter and doesn't get hated out by grudge/rack and ruin/Hurkyll's Recall, thus you get immediate use out of it and it's harder to hate out. The question is what to cut. Maybe the Tabernacle belongs in the sideboard, and should only be brought in versus fish, but I still think one should be run though, because you can always just waste or strip it in your opponent's turn, after you've sweeped his board, or you can use trike / darkblast to shoot of your own tabernacle. Even if you let yourself get sweeped, you can simply replay all your lands through Crucible.

Plaguebearer seems a bit narrow. Plaguebearer is only one more mana than gorilla shaman, but if there are no creatures, the thing is useless. At least Darkblast can dredge to make welder and crucible stronger. It would be better if it wasn't a creature, because it could eat Orchard tokens. This is one of the interaction that I forgot to tell. Once you have Kormus Bell and Urborg in play, the chances are that your opponent has more land and thus more creatures than you allowing you to oath up a creature. You could wasteland yourself to get rid of creatures if this is needed to buy an extra turn.

I am looking for some more efficient one-sided removal but I have troubles finding it. So far Darkblast/Plaguebearer and Lava Dart are the best choices. I have even flirted with the idea of valakut or desert, but I don't see that work. A similar card that could avoid paying for spheres is desirable. Keldon Megaliths is the cheapest land I can find that doesn't require sacking itself. I think Tabernacle is still the best option. Once your opponent succumbs to Tabernacle upkeep, you simply pay for as much as you can the next turn, without paying for Tabernacle itself, the Tabernacle dies and the effect stops. If your opponent keeps paying for upkeep, there are only several outs. When Smokestack is out, it is just a matter of time before he has nothing anymore. The one with the most artifact mana may wiggle himself out of the situation (if null rod and spheres aren't in play yet). The one with the Tolarian Academy gets to untap his board. A wasteland on Tabernacle during opponent's upkeep. Simply cast all your spells and replay Tabernacle. He still can't do a thing that turn because of the Tabernacle trigger because he had to wait a turn for his activation of wasteland due to summoning sickness. This means all his lands are still tapping to pay Tabernacle cost and you get a turn without Tabernacle. The only real out is Tolarian Academy.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2010, 05:38:23 pm by BruiZar » Logged
Delha
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« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2010, 05:51:58 pm »

Plaguebearer seems a bit narrow. Plaguebearer is only one more mana than gorilla shaman, but if there are no creatures, the thing is useless. At least Darkblast can dredge to make welder and crucible stronger. It would be better if it wasn't a creature, because it could eat Orchard tokens. This is one of the interaction that I forgot to tell. Once you have Kormus Bell and Urborg in play, the chances are that your opponent has more land and thus more creatures than you allowing you to oath up a creature. You could wasteland yourself to get rid of creatures if this is needed to buy an extra turn.
Agreed that he's quite narrow, I just figured Tabernacle was similarly narrow. Being a creature definitely sucks against Oath, but against them, I'd probably wouldn't drop the guy unless you already have Urborg/Bell down, and Tabernacle won't save you from EOT tokens either. Against MUD, it's probably a plus that he's wasteproof. IMHO, he roughly breaks even w/ Tabernacle, each having separate ups and downs.

At the end of the day, I won't be ass-hurt if you don't run him. If anything, I'm still amused that he was worth consideration in a serious deck at all.
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« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2010, 04:08:20 pm »

Would Orb of Dreams be better than Kormus Bell since it costs a mana less and has all the advantages and then some (slows moxen) except for interactions with Trike, Tabernacle, and Darkblast?
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« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2010, 10:45:18 pm »

Kormus bell does not single handedly disrupt anything, making it a poor choice in a stax deck. 

Braids has a really cool mechanic.  I have been wanting an artifact that made them sac on the next upkeep for a long time, but it has not come down the pipe.  Braids, however, would the the hardest spell to cast in the whole deck.  I can think of at least 5 artifact lock components I would rather have in any given hand.
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« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2010, 08:08:21 am »

Kormus bell does not single handedly disrupt anything, making it a poor choice in a stax deck. 

Agreed.  I'd rather see this list run something like Winter Orb, leveraging its interaction with tangle wire + welder.
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« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2010, 12:18:35 pm »

Would Orb of Dreams be better than Kormus Bell since it costs a mana less and has all the advantages and then some (slows moxen) except for interactions with Trike, Tabernacle, and Darkblast?
I think that those interactions are the entire reason Bell is in the deck.
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« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2010, 07:39:07 pm »

I don't think the likelihood of seeing Bell + something to make it useful is better than the likelihood of using an unequivocal lock component for its inherent usefulness. 

On a side note, I love having an excuse to run Darkblast.  I end up milling it over drawing many times.  Another plus is that is destroys permanents even without Bell in play.  Nothing makes me happier with Stax than nuking a weenie creature with a spell (other than swordzing one, but here I get to mill).
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« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2010, 10:34:37 pm »

Powder Keg.  Costs 2, wipes the board of mana critters, i.e. lands, and moxen in 1 fell swoop.  Doesn't work under Null rod tho.

My 2 cents.

Nice deck idea.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2010, 10:40:27 pm by serracollector » Logged

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« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2010, 08:32:39 am »

So basicallly the concept is a 3 card combo?  You need Bell, then Urborg, and the third piece is Tabernacle/Darkblast/Trike.  This forces you to run 2 Kormus Bells which do little to nothing and 3 Urborgs (which can potentially help opponents who play a splash of black, oh and it's legendary.  Sounds fun, but I think it's not good enough.

When I toyed around with 'alternative' locks, I liked Mycosynth Lattice+Welder+Gorilla Shaman(pops off the now 0cc artifact lands) with the nail in the coffin being Null Rod to just say no to any more mana for the rest of the game.  The reason I would prefer something like that is that besides Lattice, which is ok for a 2-3 of, the rest of the cards have face value on their own.  Just sayin'.

For this deck, I'd go for Braids definetly.  Smokestack 5-7? I'll take it.  Sadly Kormus Bell can go.  Earwig Squad can go because it is way too random to be prowled into play.  Especially off just 3 Welders. 

Wow did I just count 23 mana sources in a Stax deck??  That's dangerously low by my count. 

Sorry if that doesn't help the cause, but good luck anyway.
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« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2010, 10:01:31 am »

Quote
Smokestack
*Active Kormus Bell with a smokestack means that your opponent won't be able to tap for mana

So Kormus Bell makes their swamps into 1/1 creatures that are still lands and smokestack makes them sacrifice permanents on their upkeep. At what point does this keep them from tapping their lands? I guess it keeps them from tapping their swamps later in the turn if they play one because it's summoning sick, but otherwise I don't see the interaction that keeps them from tapping their lands for mana.

I  just wanted to start by saying that all my criticism is entirely theoretical, I have never tested this build. I saw Vroman's first Uba Stax list and laughed because it ran Citanul Flute. I did the same thing to Travis Laplante's March of the Machines until it won a Waterbury.

I guess I always hated the idea of a 2c Stax deck. MUD gives you the extra explosiveness and consistency to your mana base. One color gives you some stability to your mana base by running basics while adding some powerful synergistic cards. 5c Stax gives you the versatility to run the most powerful cards available. This build is adding the vulnerability of running 100% non-basic lands and the potential of not having colored mana to cast your colored spells without nearly enough upside to make it worthwhile.

I agree with madmanmike25 that Urborg and Bell are both pretty bad on their own and amount to a bad root maze that only hits lands when combined without the third piece. Furthermore, without all 3 the effect is symmetrical, maybe worse because your Workshop is probably more important to you than their basic island.

I really hate to discourage attempts at innovation in this archetype, but I just don't see the potential here.
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« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2010, 05:58:24 am »

Quote
  Kormus Bell
This card underwent an odd bit of evolution. On the Alpha / Beta / Unlimited version, Kormus Bell adamantly states that Swamps have no color and (since that's not clear enough, apparently) that they are not black. On the Revised version, no mention of color is made at all. The Swamps are still colorless (they're colorless by default), but Kormus Bell keeps its mouth shut about it. On the Fourth Edition version, Kormus Bell pulls a total reversal and turns the Swamps black!

The color-changing effect doesn't exist in Oracle. Our general policy, though, is to adhere to the last printed version of a card. Other considerations can trump that policy (as seen elsewhere in this bulletin), but since there are no such compelling circumstances with this card, Kormus Bell is getting its color-changing effect restored.

New wording
All Swamps are 1/1 black creatures that are still lands.

The latest Oracle update includes Kormus Bell with a functional rules change.

Now that Kormus Bell swamps are now black creatures, this deck could possibly use more goodies (Bad Moon, or things that hurt black creatures.)

Food for thought for those interested in this deck.

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