[Deck Analysis and Discussion - Blue Based Control] The CHaPuZaS Solution

[CHaPuZaS]

[This is a translation of part of a bigger article, written in my iPhone during my holiday in Italy, so don't be cruel]

I'm going to present you a new deck. This deck is an answer, to the format, to everyone that thinks that Vintage has no space for new designs, to thosethinking that MUD is unbeatable, and finally... for those thinking that Vintage is fun no more.

The CHaPuZaS Solution

Maindeck

1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Strip Mine
3 Wasteland
3 City of Brass
1 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
1 Scalding Tarn
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
1 Roar of the Wurm
1 Jace, the Mindsculptor
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Life from the Loam
1 Fastbond
1 Regrowth
1 Zuran Orb
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Sensei’s Divining Top
3 Ancient Grudge
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Tinker
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Brainstorm
2 Deep Analysis
2 Intuition
2 Cunning Wish
4 Spell Pierce
4 Force of Will

Sideboard

2 Ravenous Trap
1 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Ray of Revelation
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Echoing Truth
1 Ingot Chewer
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Nature’s Claim
1 Firestorm
3 Lightning Bolt

I've written an an analysis about the deck, unfortunately for most of you in Spanish. I talk about the creation of the deck, the first versions, the results history and finally the deck card by card. Unfortunately for me, unlike the case with the Bazaar of Moxen 4 Breakdowns and analysis , I have no time enough for translating the full article. So I'll reduce it to the final points. Then, if someone wants to speak about the deck, I'll be able to speak about it during the next three days (Before I go out to Italy on my summer holidays).

For me, the most important thing about the deck, is that it's a new way to look to the format, a new construction, and that's something that Vintage, the lowering attendances and the false taboos about Type1 will thank.

First of all, here are the results with the deck:

- Top 8, 5º Torneo LMV3
- 67º, 5-2-2, Bazaar of Moxen 4
- Top 4, 8º Open Valladolid
- Top 8, Vintage@MTG Barato

Now let's analyse card by card:

5 Moxes, 1 Black Lotus, 1 Mana Crypt and 1 Sol Ring - Obtaining mana fastly is very important for the deck, as the most important spells of the deck cost 3CC, but we won't pay on efficience. This is the reason why this deck don't pack Mana Vault and Lotus Petal. Even though having at least one of the SoloCryptMox pieces will rocket our possibilities, for this deck it is much more important to rely on conatant mana, without the need to explosiveness. The only one shot mana in the maindeck is Black Lotus.

3 Fetch Land, 3 Volcanic Island and 3 Tropical Island - In older versions I played more Fetch Lands, to maximize Life from the Loam usage. I've discovered how important is the green mana, and that additional Polluted Delta is now Tropical Island. 3 Fetch Lands is still enough for working with the LFTL or Crucible of Worlds engine.

3 City of Brass - A good idea that the french players implemented in his version. A reliable source to all mana is what this deck mostly need, and three is enough to avoid losing for CoB damage. Sometimes the show starts with nothing more than a CoB, and that's enough for a few turns.

1 Tolarian Academy - Not as explosive as in other decks. It will allow you to play a bunch of spells in the late game and it uses to be an Split Second Wasteland against many opponents. Why TA over Library of Alexandria? You will lose more games due to not having colored mana than those you'll won by card advantage.

1 Barbarian Ring - I really wanted to play a card like Fire//Ice or Lava Dart maindeck but in the end, Barbarian Ring came as the perfect solution. It can be fetched with more cards than F/I, it hits the spot of a land and its reusable. Life from the Loam and Intuition love this card; while Noble Fish players will hate it. It's also part of a 4-card instant combo (Unbeliebable!) and fits perfectly the deck spirit.

1 Strip Mine and 3 Wasteland - ¡hat's how the mana denial plan gets started! Suffice to say how it works against most decks in conjuction with cards like Ancient Grudge. It makes Spelk Pierce an almost hard counter during all the game. Life from the Loam, Intuition and Crucible of Worlds are there because of this cards and this is the main plan of this deck.

4 Force of Will y 4 Spell Pierce - Nothing has to be said about FoW because as the Deck Analysis and Breakdown of the Bazaar of Moxen Main Event showed up that every blue controlish deck pack it as a 4-of. Spell Pierce has proven its value in Vintage as mosts decks rely on it to counter the cheapest opponent's spells. Null Rod, Oath of Druids or any Sphere are in their kill list, but this deck's mana denial plan will allow them to work against any non-creature spell.

2 Cunning Wish - I don't really like this card, but there are some decks and plays that you won't like to lose against. Cunning Wish provides maindeck graveyard hate, enchantment and creature removal. When I don't play them, I use 2 Negate or 2 Mana Leak.

2 Intuition, 1 Gifts Ungiven and 1 Fact or Fiction - Intuition effects are the most important piece of the deck. Intuition is in fact much better than what it will be while playing Accumulatted Knowledge, as it is a triple tutor in resolution, without discussion. And it's an Instant! While resolving one you will face the decision of choosing a game plan with many alternative piles, of which these are just examples:

3 Ancient Grudge
1 Life from the Loam + 1 Strip Mine + 1 Wasteland/Barbarian Ring
2 Deep Analysis + 1LftL/Roar of the Wurm/Ancient Grudge

Gifts Ungiven will work as the third Intuition effect, not as cheaper, but also more broken. In this deck, you'll be able to put out so many different GU piles that your quality as a player will be tested, as you are almost always going to have options against any opponent's play. Fact or Fiction is not a tutor, but the effect is similar or sometimes better than what an Intuition can get to the graveyard. The interesting point for FoF is that it still nets you some card advantage and can get you a good card out of two in the 5 card pile, while an Intuition effect might not work. When two Intuitions has been played you might not have three good cards to look for or two good cards to let them go to the graveyard.

2 Deep Analysis - One of the main Intuition targets, and given the enormous quantity of mana that we will have in the mid game, perfrctly playables from the graveyard or from your hand at sorcery speed. You just have o be careful not to burn you too much with this and the damaging lands.

3 Ancient Grudge - Vintage is he moxen format, and some decks depend completely upon them. Being Null Rod an Artifact and the best defense against full powered decks in Fish, the undeniable dominance of MUD decks in the format, and the sometimes too fast Time Vault/Voltaic Key combo... Ancient Grudge will be our Most Valuable Player. This instant will apply strength to the mana denial plan, in fact, it uses to be the first striker. Three in the maindeck is good enough to be able to look for all of them against most decks with the first Intuition if needed, specially if you are facing a Workshop Deck, which will make it a 4 for 1. It is also able to counter Repeals. And the most important thing is, undoubtely, that it nets you card advantage. There's one in the sideboard just because we will be playing with Cunning Wish, if not, it will be maindeck too.

1 Time Walk and 1 Ancestral Recall - Ehm.. Yes. Anything else?

1 Sensei’s Divining Top and 1 Brainstorm - Depending on the number of moxen in our hand, the first two turns might be not really impressive. Sometimes the deck is weak at that point, and that's why I play a Top, as it is the perfect play when playing without much mana. Brainstorm is there just to fix the first hands. I really like how two Tops work, but BS was blue and anyway it uses to be one of the first cards to be sideboarded. Also, when you get the Infinite Life combo and need to find the Barbarian Ring, Top becomes a tutor, as you can crack any amount of Fetch lands and look always the top of the deck to find the fourth card. This happened twice to me.

1 Yawgmoth’s Will, 1 Demonic Tutor y 1 Regrowth - The reason why I play black cards. YWill is just... All. Demonic tutor is the only tutor I play because, at least for now, I don't want to play tutors netting card disadvantage. Mystical is not good enough, at least while I don't play Balance. Regrowth works fine returning an Ancestral Recall or an Strip Mine back to the office and sometimes makes it difficult to choose the cards before an Intuition or a GU to the opponent. This deck plays a lot of bombs, recovering them will also be fine.

1 Crucible of Worlds, 1 Life from the Loam and 1 Fastbond - Two cards helping the plan to attack the opponent's lands with strip effects are good, and they can be found with different cards also. Life from the Loam can be brougth with any Intuition effect while Crucible can also be found via Tinker. It's funny when you play a Tinker and an opponent approves its resolution waiting with a Hurkyl's Recall for the robot in hand just to find out that he'll be playing without one of his lands and that Crucible is cheaper to replay. I love Fastbond. It works perfectly with the last two cards, helping them to close the game faster, an important goal.

Zuran Orb - When you are just playing Crucible/Fastbond/B-Ring in your deck is just a matter of time to find out that Zuran Orb fits the deck. I am aware that this is a 4 card combo, but that's just if you can't understand that all the other three cards are working in the deck, appart from being a combo. Even Zuran Orb is helpul against the most aggresive decks. With one card, you are providing the deck with an instant combo, very important when having into account that this deck is not as fast as others. Also, there are decks that will virtually being unable to win you when you get to infinite life, even though you can't win at that moment.

1 Tinker and 1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind - Sphinx is our resource against aggro decks, Fish and MUD. This deck doesn't have a lot of answers against a vey aggresive plan, and Sphinx is the perfect resource. Tinker is its main caster, although I've been able to cast it many times. The Urza's Legacy sorcery will also bring Crucible of Worlds, Black Lotus and Tormod's Crypt against Ichorid to the battlefield.

1 Jace, the Mindsculptor - How GoOD it is! It is a bomb that has nothing to envy to FoF or GU. A must counteror better than a Library of Alexandria if it resolves against control decks, a multibouncer against Fish or MUD. The point for Jace in comparison to Gifts or Fact is that ot is more resolutive, provides more answers and can be a finisher. It has everything! Why not play it?

1 Roar of the Wurm - In the tournament that I played with the primordial version of the deck I joked about the possibility of including it. It turns out that, far from a joke, it proved to be a faster solution and easier to find "robot". The pairing against Fish depends completely on the Wurm(s). People undervalue this card, and that's good for you because they'll be facing a game loss by the tome thay understand how good it is. This is the percentage of games won by each win condition in the last tournament that I played:

Sphinx of the Steel Wind- 0%
Jace, The Mind Sculptor- 0%
Infini-Combo - 9%
Roar of the Wurm - 91%

Not bad for a token...

The Sideboard - is built to work with Cunning Wish and have answers for almost any opponent's play.

In order to finish...

I invite you to test this full of fun and good performing deck, and also to test your own ddck ideas. Vintage is full of hide spots, designs untested and decks undiscovered yet. Don't accept what others tell if you want to test it, as you may discover a deck that can win you many tournaments. Believe me, as I've heard all of that... A Gifts Ungiven deck without Tinker? That's shit! Stompy in Legacy? With Berserks? You must be joking at me! Gush with a Painterstone combo? No way! Thoughtcast in Vintage? It dies against Null rod and it's a bad draw engine! A deck with a 6/6 token provider? It can be Repealed! YOU CAN'T WIN WITH THAT CREATIONS OF YOURS!

But I've done. Just don't be afraid to choose your path, don't be afraid to tell the Hive Mind that they might be wrong.

Cesar Fernandez aKa CHaPuZaS
chapuzas at gmail dot com

[Odd mutation]

Hi Cesar,

I've been working on exactly the same idea! Intuition and good cards in today's metagame nobody seems to want to play main deck. Maybe my first lists are a little different then yours but I also had Roar of the Wurm in there!
I started with the idea that I wanted to consistantly play Ancient Grudge and that I wanted Intuition in the deck.

It's good to see your succes with the deck, so I'll continue my work with the deck myself!

Thanks and enjoy your stay in Italy! Going to Ovino??

Robrecht

[DubDub]

Very interesting deck, thanks for sharing.

Was Worm Harvest considered as a finisher in place of Roar of the Wurm?  It might necessitate running additional fetches in place of the Cities, but it seems a bit more resilient (better against targeted bounce like Repeal and Jace, but worse against sweepers).  You'd trade up from Flashback to Retrace, but have to handle a bit more difficult casting cost.  Admittedly, there's almost no way to make an 'early' Worm Harvest as big a threat as a 6/6.

[CHaPuZaS]

@Odd Mutation: Ovino is not in my tournament list this year, I am organising a tournament similar in Madrid in October and having bought like three Full Power 9s and more than 130 Dual Lands for prizes I don't have money enough for traveling.

Also, now that the DCI has restricted every blue drawing spell it seems OK to abuse Intuition. But not with AKs, Intuition with flashback (or retrace) cards works like an instant tutor x3. That's broken.

@Dubdub: The most important point is to cast a big creature as early as turn 3 or 4 against Fish, and Roar can do it.

[Mr. Scragglesworthington]

I like your deck, CHaP!    I've been working on a Keeper-style deck with maindeck Grudges and Cunning Wish for more in the side...  but no Intuition, which seems like a strong idea now that you've put it in the context of this deck.

Since you yourself noted you only won about 10% of your games with the infi-combo, maybe the Fastbond and Zorb could be replaced with something like Balance and ... ?  Maybe look at what your toughest matches are and see what you can do to shore them up.  Maybe a 2nd Roar?

Anyways, thanks for sharing this.

[zeus-online]

1 Tolarian Academy - Not as explosive as in other decks. It will allow you to play a bunch of spells in the late game and it uses to be an Split Second Wasteland against many opponents. Why TA over Library of Alexandria? You will lose more games due to not having colored mana than those you'll won by card advantage.

This is honestly the only part where i fail to see your point....You forget to mention the times where tolarian academy does nothing. It happens. Also no one said that you had to run one over the other?

[CHaPuZaS]

1 Tolarian Academy - Not as explosive as in other decks. It will allow you to play a bunch of spells in the late game and it uses to be an Split Second Wasteland against many opponents. Why TA over Library of Alexandria? You will lose more games due to not having colored mana than those you'll won by card advantage.

This is honestly the only part where i fail to see your point....You forget to mention the times where tolarian academy does nothing. It happens. Also no one said that you had to run one over the other?

Well, I guess then that the point is that running the fifth colorless land is just too much, and I prefer strip effects over LoA. Tolarian is important in the Mid-Late game, where its mana boost will let you play business spells while able to counter.

Sometimes TA does nothing, sometimes LoA too, or Wasteland... It's a risk worth it, because most times it does a relevant work.

[Necropotenza]

I posed this exact same questions in the local forums Eternal Catala and didn't get any response.
I hope you can answer them here:

- With 3 Grudges maindeck you should stop Vault+Key decks theoretically. The problem is those decks usually play Dark Confidants, which should beat your card advantage and damange race. Post sideboard, I don't see the matchup improving, unless you sideboard Bolts to shore up the Confidant problem. If this is the case, what do you SB out?

- What are the reasons that bring you to sb-out Brainstorm on the 2nd and 3d games? My impression is that in the 2nd-3rd game bs is even more important than in the 1st game.

- Considering you don't run either all the restricted draw spells nor Confidants: what are the reasons for the non inclusion of Vampiric and Mystical besides you don't like card disadvantage. Wouldn't it be beneficial to play them to have access to your most powerful one-ofs such as Strip Mine and Tinker?

- When you win with Roar, do you normally play it from hand or from the grave?

[CHaPuZaS]

@Mr. Scragglesworthington: The point with the Infini-Combo is that it's far more necessary than good. Sure Roar or Jace are easier to assemble, but InfiniCombo is the answer to when you need to combo faster due to arriving the last 5 turns or when you lose the first game. The games I won with it, it was because I searched for it to win faster than ever.

I posed this exact same questions in the local forums Eternal Catala and didn't get any response.
I hope you can answer them here:

- With 3 Grudges maindeck you should stop Vault+Key decks theoretically. The problem is those decks usually play Dark Confidants, which should beat your card advantage and damange race. Post sideboard, I don't see the matchup improving, unless you sideboard Bolts to shore up the Confidant problem. If this is the case, what do you SB out?

If I know the opponent is playing Confidants, I will search for Barbarian Ring and Loam as soon as possible. Cards like D.Confidants add value to the incorporation of Cunning Wish as maindeck card.

Also, depending on the deck, opponent's playstile, and more things, I might add one or two Lightning Bolts as sideboard cards, but it depends on so many things that I can't really tell you.

- What are the reasons that bring you to sb-out Brainstorm on the 2nd and 3d games? My impression is that in the 2nd-3rd game bs is even more important than in the 1st game.

I will need a full article to tell... Really... I might even do it. But that's just the way I think, most people blame at me for doing it, even though I have shown that I am not that wrong. It might be my playstile, if you don't feel like sideboarding  BS, don't do it. Or try...

- Considering you don't run either all the restricted draw spells nor Confidants: what are the reasons for the non inclusion of Vampiric and Mystical besides you don't like card disadvantage. Wouldn't it be beneficial to play them to have access to your most powerful one-ofs such as Strip Mine and Tinker?

I am of those who think that letting the cards appear by themselves is just as good. Strip Mine is very important, and it can be fetched with Intuition and more cards, and Tinker is far from being relevant, it is just a resource against Aggro Decks.

If you pack more tutors you lose spots for important resources.

- When you win with Roar, do you normally play it from hand or from the grave?

Most times is in the graveyard, as it has been tutored with Intuition effects, or dredged with Life from the Loam.

[Gandalf_The_White_1]

Most times is in the graveyard, as it has been tutored with Intuition effects, or dredged with Life from the Loam.

With Intuition, wouldn't your opponent usually just put the Roar into your hand, since the 7cc is so hard to cast?

[CHaPuZaS]

You will only search Roar of the Wurm when necessary against aggro decks. In any other games, you will just let them appear or search for it when your game plan is completely settled and you just have to win.

I remember a game against Goblins which I searched with Intuition a Roar in the first turn. Obviously he put that in my hand. By turn four he was facing two 6/6s, and losing. I mean, if it goes to the grave its OK, as it is going sooner into play, if it goes to your hand, you may obtain card advantage,  more card advantage.

But don't focus neither on Roar nor on Sphinx/Jace/Infinicombo as on how to win. The first goal is to control, then you will think on how to (now easily) win. The strenght of the deck comes as it doesn't have spots for win conditions, it has resources. Resources that somewhere in the game, when you have fully controlled your opponent, become win conditions.

[DuKeLiO]

You have not answered the Brainstorm issue. I told you that I don't like your sideboarding plans. You can't reward in your playstyle, you have to tell us solid arguments.
Brainstorm is an amazing tool with your Life from the Loam engine, and I can't understand why you side out them.

[CHaPuZaS]

@Dukelio: We'll be able to talk about that personally as soon as I am back in Madrid, there's a lot about it to discuss.

Not always I desideboard BS but when I do that it is because I feel like I prefer not to take out other mana sources, resources, card draw (real card draw) or counterspells.

I might not be answering that question, but I think is far more difficult and long to explain than what I have now.

[zeus-online]

1 Tolarian Academy - Not as explosive as in other decks. It will allow you to play a bunch of spells in the late game and it uses to be an Split Second Wasteland against many opponents. Why TA over Library of Alexandria? You will lose more games due to not having colored mana than those you'll won by card advantage.

This is honestly the only part where i fail to see your point....You forget to mention the times where tolarian academy does nothing. It happens. Also no one said that you had to run one over the other?

Well, I guess then that the point is that running the fifth colorless land is just too much, and I prefer strip effects over LoA. Tolarian is important in the Mid-Late game, where its mana boost will let you play business spells while able to counter.

Sometimes TA does nothing, sometimes LoA too, or Wasteland... It's a risk worth it, because most times it does a relevant work.

Both waste and LoA taps for colorless mana in the worst case scenario, i can accept that you do not want to run so many colorless sources, my objection was not on the exclusion, but the reasoning.

[serracollector]

My only question is why no balance?

With the ability to drop your hand quickly, and having the fastbond/zuran orb/crucible/leyline combos, along with so many ancient grudges for moxen, balance would be everything it is meant to be in your deck.

[piZZero]

In Eternal Central we are releasing the videos that were recorded during the MTG Barato tournament in Valencia. First match is between César Fernández (Chapuzas) and Guillem Ragull. So far there's only game 1, where César can't really do much against Guillem, but I promise you guys game 2 is a bit more entertaining

César Fernández (Chapuzas Solution) Vs Guillem Ragull (Repeach Tendrils) G1: http://www.eternal-central.com/?p=291

Besides of the top8 games recorded of César, I also have another interesting game where he plays against Xavier Muntada with Tezzeret.

Stay tunned!

piZZero - Jordi Amat

[CHaPuZaS]

Balance, along with cards like Glacial Chasm, Sundering Titan, Cephalid Colisseum is in a list of cards I'd like to add/test but haven't been able or haven't found an spot for it in the maindeck.

Balance is great, maybe if I don't run Cunning Wish I'll run it, but even though it seems to be great it hasn't been necessary.

The above cards aré all worth testing, but the maindeck is so full of relevant cards...

[Grand Inquisitor]

Have you tested Berserk Murlodont in the Roar of the Wurm slot?

[Bill Copes]

Have you tested Berserk Murlodont in the Roar of the Wurm slot?

Quoted, for the humors

I don't have anything to say about the deck other than you've inspired me to stretch my Tezz list to 4 colors to run a couple of Ancient Grudge in the main.  I'm even running a City of Brass in place of the token LOA/Strip mine.

[CHaPuZaS]

Have you tested Berserk Murlodont in the Roar of the Wurm slot?

What an intelligent joke! Don't you like the deck? Maybe the deck ideas? Maybe RotW?

[meadbert]

With Roar of the Wurm, 2 Deep Analysis and 3 Ancient Grudge, have you tested Quiet Speculation?

[Grand Inquisitor]

Don't you like the deck? Maybe the deck ideas? Maybe RotW?

There's two conflicting feelings I have between (1) my love for innovation and most things Spanish and (2) how poorly constructed this deck is.  For starters:

1) The manabase is inadequate in terms of overall count, blue sources, no basics and inability to fetch black.
2) There aren't enough grave enablers.  More intuitions, frantic search, compulsion or maybe quiet spec (never played this card) are needed.
3) The overall curve of the deck seemed wierd, and yes, curve matters even for T1 decks.
4) I really don't know what you're doing with Zuran Orb and Fastbond.  There isn't enough tutoring to pull this off.
5) I tested a list rather similar to this last year before GenCon; Ancient Grudge (in a vacuum) does not help you against Vault/Key.

[Ten-Ten]

I am testing this for sure. Seems aweful at first glance but feels promising. Plus, seems better suited to beat a wider range of the meta unlike ..steelcity vault. 

[CHaPuZaS]

With Roar of the Wurm, 2 Deep Analysis and 3 Ancient Grudge, have you tested Quiet Speculation?

I tried, it was in the first version of the deck (Which you can find in the article in Spanish in this link). It is unable to find Loam+Strip Effects, 3 FoWs, fuel for a Yawgmoth's Will and it's not an Instant.

Quiet Speculation, along with Ancient Grudge and Deep Analysis were the three cards around which this deck was created. A 2CC tutor for three cards was interesting, but in the end, Intuition was just better.

I am testing this for sure. Seems aweful at first glance but feels promising. Plus, seems better suited to beat a wider range of the meta unlike ..steelcity vault. 

That's sure. The decklist seems awful, but it's not. I think that's the part that pushed me most to design and develop this deck.

Don't you like the deck? Maybe the deck ideas? Maybe RotW?

There's two conflicting feelings I have between (1) my love for innovation and most things Spanish and (2) how poorly constructed this deck is.  For starters:

1) The manabase is inadequate in terms of overall count, blue sources, no basics and inability to fetch black.
2) There aren't enough grave enablers.  More intuitions, frantic search, compulsion or maybe quiet spec (never played this card) are needed.
3) The overall curve of the deck seemed wierd, and yes, curve matters even for T1 decks.
4) I really don't know what you're doing with Zuran Orb and Fastbond.  There isn't enough tutoring to pull this off.
5) I tested a list rather similar to this last year before GenCon; Ancient Grudge (in a vacuum) does not help you against Vault/Key.

So there are two possible points, for beginners:

1) You haven't tested/played the deck.
2) You didn't read the analysis.

Against your points:

1) Do you find necessary more sources? Maybe less? Have you tested the deck to be able to say? The manabase is highly tested and it is, by far, the most important reason foe the success of the deck.
2) The third Intuition would be lovely, but there is no space to fit it, and the deck finds everything it needs quickly. It's not really necessary. Compulsion is a joke. Quiet Speculation was tested, played and deleted. Frantic Search was tested and it came down that Intuition will be better most times, even though its effect and abilities are interesting for different purposes.
3) Curve matters, that's true, it is what helps a deck to develop his plan smoothly, but the truth is that as weird as it looks, the deck works perfectly.
4) So you didn't read the analysis...
5) Sure? That's not what we've found. Ancient Grudge performs to excellence against almost all the metagame decks.

See... I am not asking if this deck works or if it doesn't, I already know it performs incredibly well. I'm showing a deck idea, an innovation, a new deck that works in the actual Vintage environment. The deck is far from being completely developed, and that's the great point, because I am aware of its lacks, and I want to develop it completely. Overall, I think it's fun to win with a 6/6 token, comboing out with a 4 card combo and that's greater when that's the best card for its purpose.

Sure, you can joke at the deck... or blame it for its lacks (Because its sure that most decks in MTG are perfect) or you can test/play a deck, see what it does, improve it, learn about Vintage, learn about Magic, learn about life and enjoy it. Because that's the point. If you choose the bad option, if that's OK for you, that's acceptable. While you do that, I will continue to Top8 with decks "the hivemind don't like" just as with the case for Tezzcast (Thoughtcast Tezzeret), where most people blame for its lacks against Null Rod and didn't realize how good it was until it was late.

Really, Vintage is not overall the most played Magic format in the world so that the Vintage Community can be so ones against others with the kind of jokes and unintelligent ideas you proposed. That's what Vintage doesn't needs.

[enuff]

There's two conflicting feelings I have between (1) my love for innovation and most things Spanish and (2) how poorly constructed this deck is.  For starters:

1) The manabase is inadequate in terms of overall count, blue sources, no basics and inability to fetch black.
2) There aren't enough grave enablers.  More intuitions, frantic search, compulsion or maybe quiet spec (never played this card) are needed.
3) The overall curve of the deck seemed wierd, and yes, curve matters even for T1 decks.
4) I really don't know what you're doing with Zuran Orb and Fastbond.  There isn't enough tutoring to pull this off.
5) I tested a list rather similar to this last year before GenCon; Ancient Grudge (in a vacuum) does not help you against Vault/Key.

I've been constantly reading this forum for a long time. But this is the kind comment why i cannot take this community seriously anymore. There is a big lack of creativity. Seriously, you are discussing the same old standard builds for years. And nothing else. Even if the deck performs extremely well in Europe (I'm not talking only of this particular deck), one comes to the following conclusion after the first glance: Meh, the manabase and overall curve of this deck is completely different from my standard Tess build, so this must be rubbish. Saying that a deck which is performing not too badly, is poorly constructed without even playtesting it, reveals a lack of respect.

[Phele]

There's two conflicting feelings I have between (1) my love for innovation and most things Spanish and (2) how poorly constructed this deck is.  For starters:

1) The manabase is inadequate in terms of overall count, blue sources, no basics and inability to fetch black.
2) There aren't enough grave enablers.  More intuitions, frantic search, compulsion or maybe quiet spec (never played this card) are needed.
3) The overall curve of the deck seemed wierd, and yes, curve matters even for T1 decks.
4) I really don't know what you're doing with Zuran Orb and Fastbond.  There isn't enough tutoring to pull this off.
5) I tested a list rather similar to this last year before GenCon; Ancient Grudge (in a vacuum) does not help you against Vault/Key.

I've been constantly reading this forum for a long time. But this is the kind comment why i cannot take this community seriously anymore. There is a big lack of creativity. Seriously, you are discussing the same old standard builds for years. And nothing else. Even if the deck performs extremely well in Europe (I'm not talking only of this particular deck), one comes to the following conclusion after the first glance: Meh, the manabase and overall curve of this deck is completely different from my standard Tess build, so this must be rubbish. Saying that a deck which is performing not too badly, is poorly constructed without even playtesting it, reveals a lack of respect.

QFT

The whole way this comment from Grand Inquisitor was presented ("starters", "poorly") is meant to sound like he is in a somewhat superior position, to judge in this harsh way. In other words its full of unnesseary arrogance. You know that you are talking about a build of someone who has done well in >100 Vintage events several times? Does these events even exist in the US? Calm down a bit and try at least to phrase your critics in a friendly manner. Otherwise it cannot lead to something else than a flame war. Peace!

[Grand Inquisitor]

So there are two possible points, for beginners:

There is actually a larger set of possibilities.  I have both tested (albeit MWS, not IRL) and read.  If you're relying on the foundational post, please be specific (sometimes you are) instead of just referring to analysis, thanks.

1) Do you find necessary more sources? Maybe less? Have you tested the deck to be able to say? The manabase is highly tested and it is, by far, the most important reason foe the success of the deck.

I ran into problems with color selection, particularly in the face of wasteland before getting to 3 mana or when not finding intuition/other tutors.  I mention the lack of access to black with fetches.  I also had trouble drawing enough lands, but given it has 26 sources, this very well could be the MWS shuffler.  It could also be the lack of cheap search/draw.

2) The third Intuition would be lovely, but there is no space to fit it, and the deck finds everything it needs quickly. It's not really necessary. Compulsion is a joke. Quiet Speculation was tested, played and deleted. Frantic Search was tested and it came down that Intuition will be better most times, even though its effect and abilities are interesting for different purposes.

I also feel intuition is far and away the best tutor here, I don't know where you'd find room for more (maybe the lackluster zuran orb combo).  I constantly found myself with 'combo' pieces in hand like zorb, roar, DA, etc and not enough mana or other cards to leverage them.

3) Curve matters, that's true, it is what helps a deck to develop his plan smoothly, but the truth is that as weird as it looks, the deck works perfectly.

Not to undermine your experience (which even the denser Americans appreciate), I've played with intuition, a lot.  Getting the rest of the deck to support requires many things, and surprising to me at first, was how important the surrounding mana and mana curve structure was set up.  Here's what the fat section of your current curve looks like:

cc3: 7
cc4: 5
cc>4:2

To compare with my Tez list:

cc3: 3 (most people additionally run Thirst for Knowledge)
cc4: 2 (some people are running an additional Jace)
cc>4:2

This doesn't look like a lot of slots difference (7 more), but combine this with an exclusively nonbasic manabase, cards that require a high degree of synergy and often dead weight like Ancient Grudge and Zuran Orb and you start to see your play options bottleneck around intuition.  Also, (I'm sure you appreciate this) while 5-7 slots doesn't seem like much, in the 'big blue' decks for T1, even 1-2 slots misplaced is a dead weight.

4) So you didn't read the analysis...

I did, I found it unpersuasive both in theory and in practice.

5) Sure? That's not what we've found. Ancient Grudge performs to excellence against almost all the metagame decks.

Metagame is certainly important, but it doesn't look like the Spanish meta is so different right now.  There's no doubting that Ancient Grudge is devastating against workshops.  However both in testing this and in testing a grudge heavy list a year ago I found that:

(1) as shops move more towards sphere effects for disruptions, basics and low cc answers are more important than the power of the answer (I'm thinking grudge, R&R, EFlux here)
(2) against fish, null rod is less and less the chief of your problems.  Pridemage and an active Selkie along with the stifle/waste (sometimes KotReliquary) package are just as daunting.  Drawing into Grudge #2 when you're facing an army but no null rod is frustrating.
(3) against Tez and Oath, hitting mana is rarely significant to game outcome, hitting a SDTop even less so.  There are games where the opponent goes in for quick combo and you happen to have 3 mana of the right kind untapped (remember your list is mostly sorcery speed).  However, against better players, you'll always see them going the long route (with Bob or other card advantage or clearing the way with duress.  It wasn't a small amount of testing I did on this either, conceptually I was entirely sold on a 4c/3grudge Tez list for GenCon last year until the testing proved me incorrect.
(4) These do nothing against storm combo or dredge and don't speed up your clock.

I already know it performs incredibly well

You are a great player and part of what is important about TMD is figuring out what is the cause of the things we observe in magic.  There are cases where there are 'next level' decks that only certain people can leverage their real power.  Perhaps this deck is one of those and your (I only saw one T8) success is based both on your prowess and the deck's elegance.  Right now I'm leaning towards the first but not the second.

"hivemind"..."discussing the same old standard builds for years"

Innovation is one thing, I already said, I really hope for that kind of stuff.  I really liked Tezzcast and thought TwoCardMonty was really inspired (there hasn't been a lot else recently, and I certainly don't have a good hand for creative deckbuilding).  However, there's a reason why the same things continue to win in T1, they're good (and people actually test to find out what this means).  It's not like the cards and synergies here are even new.  They're just rehashed for what is a different cycle in the metagame.  All I'm saying is that I don't think this configuration is any better than what people are already doing.  It's not like my posts were all "ur metagame sux...", so let's quit with the "grumpy old guy doesn't test, durf, durf".

I've been constantly reading this forum for a long time. But this is the kind comment why i cannot take this community seriously anymore.

I'm kinda with you, but for entirely different reasons.  In fact, I often like to reread my own posts while humming Wagner and sipping Glenmorangie.

[Grand Inquisitor]

QFT

The whole way this comment from Grand Inquisitor was presented ("starters", "poorly") is meant to sound like he is in a somewhat superior position, to judge in this harsh way. In other words its full of unnesseary arrogance. You know that you are talking about a build of someone who has done well in >100 Vintage events several times? Does these events even exist in the US? Calm down a bit and try at least to phrase your critics in a friendly manner. Otherwise it cannot lead to something else than a flame war. Peace!

Sorry to double post, but missed this...

My post is certainly critical.  If it seems harsh, look harder: I talk specifically about slots, strategies and my own testing.  This is called 'discussion' not flaming, I certainly don't attack Cesar personally.  If I come off as superior or arrogant, it's because I also have experience and X number of finishes in big events.  I'm not dick measuring with Cesar here, I'm talking about his list.

Agreed people on here (maybe Americans particularly) can be prickly or hasty to judgement.  I tried to make clear: love Cesar, love his previous work, love the Spanish meta.  This, in my opinion, is not good work.

[CHaPuZaS]

I won't quote all your references to the manabase count, the curve and the color selection because, as most parts of the deck, it came down to test/play/improve/test/play/improve so as far as I don't even like it, it works. How can I argue about that? I think that I can't. I just can say that it works because it has been tested/played/improved. Also, I don't really need to have access to black, as it's not a really important color in the deck. When it comes down to cast a Yawgmoth's Will in a deck that can fetch via Intuition/Loam/Crucible, CoBrass and Power9 pieces are enough.

About the Workshop Deck matter, I have never lost against it, and the count goes up to around 5 or 10 in 4 tournaments. Ancient Grudge is far from being just a piece of hate against Workshops, it is primarily used as the mana denial plan. It uses to work, and it's also empowered by Spell Pierce defensively.

About the Top8 count, the foundational post shows it:

- Top 8, 5º Torneo LMV3
- 67º, 5-2-2, Bazaar of Moxen 4
- Top 4, 8º Open Valladolid
- Top 8, Vintage@MTG Barato

That list can add a 2-1-1 in a 20 people tournament last Tuesday.

That is 3 out of 4 big or important tournaments Top8s. I was the only pilot playing it, so that's a 75% success.

About the Zuran Orb combo... OK. It's weird. But it's just one card more to the deck to allow for an instant combo. I will run Crucible/B-Ring/Fastbond anyway (Fastbond has proven to be quite good in combination with Intuition effects and Loam/Crucible.) and given that this deck is not.


I will add some information that it's not included in the Foundational Post.

I pushed my efforts to design and develop this deck, mainly because I was bored of Winning/Top8ing with Tezzcast (The last tournament with Tezzcast I was awarded the 3rd prize). Tezzcast was too mechanical... unfun. This deck is the oppositte case. It is fun to play it, has weird combinations and performs in a different way each game. I can Top8 with it, just the same quantity of times or more that with any other deck, the deck is fun to play, the deck is new, for me those are reasons enough to play it.

[Grand Inquisitor]

- Top 8, 5º Torneo LMV3
- 67º, 5-2-2, Bazaar of Moxen 4
- Top 4, 8º Open Valladolid
- Top 8, Vintage@MTG Barato

Can you provide links?  I'm not doubting or anything, but I'm curious to see if there's an evolution to the list and what else was in the T8.  For example, your list here is very different than here.  I don't know if you'd consider the 2nd linked deck in the same deck family as The Solution.

FWIW, the video provided by piZZero, while a small sample, seems to illustrate well how a fragile combo and expensive draw engine get outflanked by conventional big blue.

mainly because I was bored

Given your success and the state of the format/metagame, I totally understand.  I was going through a similar funk when I stumbled upon this beauty (which oddly shares some similarities with your Solution).  These things can be highly rewarding and challenging to pilot...I just don't think they should be recommended to whoever walks into this thread as 'The Solution' without proper vetting.