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Author Topic: The Dark Times Primer  (Read 151117 times)
Jakgotbak
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« Reply #90 on: September 14, 2010, 04:44:28 pm »

Short Tournament Report -

I'm only writing this because I said I would, and not because anything terribly interesting happened.  23 people showed up to play Vintage at Knight Ware in Studio City, CA.

My friend, Phil, was the judge and was also playing.  In order to finish his rounds quickly so he could get back to judging, Phil was willing to switch decks with me. (He was running The Deck.)  I declined since I knew there'd be a lot of random decks in the room, and I'd rather be pro-active than reactive.  This was my first of many misplays on the day.  See my previous post for my complete decklist.

Round 1 - Kevin with Fish
This was Kevin's first Vintage tournament, and it showed.  He was a nice guy, but he just didn't really know what was going on.  To start with, his deck ran Stifle, which is terrible, but would've actually been good game 1 since I wasn't playing around it AT ALL.

Game 1 - all he'd seen was Swamp, Ritual, Bob (eating a FoW), and Wasteland.  Not being able to extrapolate Dark Times from that, he tapped his only source of blue (I think to play a Qasali Pridemage).  This allowed me to rip Lotus off the top and go from a board position of just a Swamp to a Swamp and a 20/20.  Of course I made the 20/20 on my turn to play around him ripping a Wasteland... I didn't realize I accidently played around him having blue-mana up for Stifle.  I'm still pretty sure I win this game anyway.  His hand was all answers and no threats.  Even if he'd managed to Stifle the Hexmage, that would've been a 1-for-1 trade and in no way a blow-out.

Game 2 - He goes turn 1 Trop. I go turn 1 Swamp, Thoughtseize, seeing a hand of almost all hate (FoW, Stifle, Echoing Truth, Wasteland, Strip Mine, Meddling Mage).  I think I took the Echoing Truth, knowing there's no way I can lose.  When he's staring down a nearly lethal Bob and 'Goyf, I make a 20/20 because I'm kind of a dick. (I'd already traded a Wasteland for his Stifle, and he had no idea how to use his Wastes to keep me off the combo.)  

Afterward, Kevin asks me for advice about his build, then proceeds to argue against everything I tried to tell him.  Whatever.  He's perfectly welcome to keep wasting slots on Stifles and running a card like Meddling Mage that's marginal at best and ONLY if you really understand the format. (See round 4 for some great examples of bad Mage-ing.)

1-0 (2-0 in games)

Round 2 - ANT
I hated everything about this match.

Game 1 - He has pretty much the nuts, plus a brainstorm to hide the nuts from my Duress.  C'est la vie.  He does almost die to his Ad Nauseam, but then he storms out and puts me at 3 with a Bob in play while he goes to 18.  What was frustrating about this game was how he tried to storm again after a Bob flip and a fetch-land put me at 1.  You're at 16 against a 2/1!  Just pass the turn and let me die to Bob!  He finally did, and I did.

Game 2 - He's been Duressed 3 or 4 times, he's at 8 life against my 4/5 Goyf + Bob.  He rips an Ad Nauseam and proceeds to flip perfectly, go to two life, and win (his flips were something like Lotus, Ritual, Recall, Tendrils, and his Recall hit all gas).  This game sucked because he had nothing in his hand, and the Ad Nauseam allowed him to just win.  Had the topdeck come one turn later, he wouldn't have had enough life to use the Ad Nauseam.  Magic sucks sometimes.

1-1 (2-2 in games)

Round 3 - Stax

Game 1 - He won the die roll.

Game 2 - Bitterblossom was a champ, allowing me to stay ahead of Smokestack.  Then, when the time was right, I sac'ed the Tribal Enchantment to make my two 'Goyfs friggin' ridiculous.

Game 3 - I kept a bad seven.  I knew I was on the draw and he'd probably have resistance.  I had a hand that allowed me to go Land, Jet, Lotus even through his turn 1 Sphere.  What it didn't have was a second land.  Turn 1 Goyf isn't enough to get there.  It was a bad keep and I deserved to lose because of it.

1-2 (3-4 in games)

Round 4 - Another Fish player with main deck Meddling Mage and Stifle (EDIT: In my original post, I got this out of order with round 5.  Serves me right for trying to do a tourney report entirely from memory)
As in round 1... nice guy, bad deck.

Game 1 - Turn 1 I Duress FoW.  Turn 2 I try to make a Crucible of Worlds off a Ritual, and he casts his freshly drawn Force of Will.  He then proceeds to play a Meddling Mage, naming Crucible of Worlds.  Yeah... that happened.  Please, people, stop running this card if you don't really understand what's going on in every matchup.  I make a 20/20, but am caught totally off-guard by Curfew of all cards.  Now, I've run a deck with Curfew before, but I also ran a bunch of guys who were good to reset, like Spellstutter Sprite.  When you have to pick up your two drop for no value, Curfew gets worse.  When Tinker decks are also running Bobs, Curfew gets even worse still.  So he takes out my 20/20 with a Curfew, but I win anyway because he's got a deck full of the wrong answers and - like round 1 - no threats.

Game 2 - I hit him with an early Thoughseize and let him keep the Curfew, since it's ridiculously easy to play around as long as I know about it.  I play a Hexmage and just start beating with it.  Then I tutor up a Bitterblossom and play it, then I think I played a 'Goyf and made a 20/20 the next turn.  The only creature he played all game was a Meddling Mage naming (you guessed it) Crucible of Worlds.

2-2 (5-4 in games)

Round 5 - Jonah with BG Kinda Rockish Stuff (EDIT: I got this out of order with round 4)
Jonah's a friend, but this was his first Vintage tournament, so his deck was a little untuned. (EDIT: Turns out I forgot about Jonah's one other Vintage Tournament in which he won a FRIGGIN' MOX JET... so yeah, good player, just doesn't play much Vintage.  And I think he was handed a deck for that event, whereas he tried to brew this one himself.)

Game 1 - He's on the play and Duresses me, but doesn't take my Duress.  I'm able to Duress the Dark Ritual out of his hand, making a turn 3 Hypnotic Specter his next play.  I know the coast is clear, so I make a 20/20.

Game 2 - I don't remember much of this game.  I know I had a dominant enough start that Jonah scooped to go playtest Standard.

3-2 (7-4 in games)

So I made some bad plays and beat the people who don't play Vintage.  With the number of people in the room, 3-2 was actually good enough for one person to make top 8, but I was 9th on breakers.  9th out of 23... ugh.

I feel weird giving thoughts on the deck, since it was only five rounds and I just barely broke even on the day.  I maintain, though, that the green splash is really good, and 'Goyf beatdown is a much better Plan B than Leyline/Helm.



What about instead of 5 Leyline/Helm, we go 3 Painter's servant/2 Grindstone, or something like that?  You have a 2nd wincon and unless you get turn 0 leyline it is much cheaper, as it cost 6 mana total with the highest costing mana being 3, as opposed to two 4cc.  You could also maybe do 4 Painter's/1 Grindstone, or maybe even 3 Painters/1 Grindstone, and a beats equipment to make the Painter's servants or Bobs a little more threatening.  What do you think?

Doing this hurts your G1 plan against Dredge which is one of the benefits of playing this deck.

We are discussing alternatives to Helmline, how is this idea any worse than splashing green for Tarmogoyfs or blue for power?  With Tarmo and with blue you still have the same problem as being vulnerable to dredge, so I don't understand why you would post this.
My reasoning for not going with Painter's/Grindstone is that, like Leyline/Helm, neither half of the combo does anything on its own.  Neither one hurts as much when you flip them to Bob, but a Goyf off the top is relevant way more often than a Grindstone off the top if you don't have a Painter, or vice versa.  

I can't speak for Sporkcore (since the game 1 plan against Dredge is NOT the reason I play this deck), but I can say that Painter's/Grindstone brings with it one of the worst parts or Helm/Leyline (dead draws) without bringing a little splash value (being stupid good against 1 deck in the meta).
« Last Edit: September 15, 2010, 12:11:52 pm by Jakgotbak » Logged
Djinn
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« Reply #91 on: September 16, 2010, 08:23:22 pm »

Has anyone considered any artifact creatures?  Masticore is the first to come to mind, but that may be underwhelming.  I was also thinking to somehow incorporate either Phyrexian Negator, Phylactery Lich, or Abyssal Persecutor, and you wouldn't have to splash another color.  For Lich you would obviously need to add some more artifacts (I'd say at least 10 that are not either lotus), for Abyssal you'd need to add Cabal Therapy or something of the like, and with Negator you'd need bitterblossom or some sort of recurring permanent.  Just a thought since we may as well try to stay mono black since there is such a plethora of cheap black creatures.
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Bibi
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« Reply #92 on: September 26, 2010, 05:54:02 am »

No more comment about the black/green version ?

What do you thing about this version :

        1 Forest
        1 Strip Mine
        2 Dark Depths
        2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
        3 Bayou
        3 Swamp
        4 Verdant Catacombs
        4 Wasteland
        3 Vampire Hexmage
        4 Dark Confidant
        4 Tarmogoyf
        1 Black Lotus
        1 Crucible of Worlds
        1 Lotus Petal
        1 Mox Emerald
        1 Mox Jet
        1 Pithing Needle
        2 Sensei's Divining Top
        1 Necropotence
        1 Darkblast
        1 Diabolic Edict
        1 Vampiric Tutor
        2 Nature's Claim
        4 Dark Ritual
        1 Demonic Tutor
        1 Imperial Seal
        1 Living Wish
        1 Yawgmoth's Will
        3 Thoughtseize
        4 Duress
SB:  1 Perish
SB:  1 Sadistic Sacrament
SB:  1 Helm of Obedience
SB:  2 Emissary of Despair
SB:  4 Leyline of the Void
SB:  1 Darkblast
SB:  1 Pithing Needle
SB:  1 Nature's Claim
SB:  1 Dark Depths
SB:  1 Vampire Hexmage
SB:  1 Bitterblossom

Nul Rod are replaced by Nature's Claim, no more demonic consultation but 2  Sensei's Divining Top, to help you getting the good cards, and keep life point with Dark Confidant
Also, I'll try living wish.

I might play this version in few days for a tournament, but I am not able to test it against someone Sad
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BruiZar
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« Reply #93 on: September 26, 2010, 06:49:19 am »

Short Tournament Report -

The matchups you won were byes. The ones you lost were the only real matchups. The ANT loss was perhaps out of your control but I don't believe that Dark Times should lose against Workshop.

There is Bloodghast and Bitterblossom to disable Wires and Smokestacks and NO CREATURE beats Marit Lage, not even Duplicant. Resolving Marit Lage will win you the game, period. Ghast and Gate to Phyrexia can blow out workshop completely. With a green splash you simply open yourself up to wasteland. Nature's Claim is not that good and Tarmogoyf is too slow and small (yes, I said it). Perhaps your build wasn't resilient enough.
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Djinn
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« Reply #94 on: September 26, 2010, 10:24:53 pm »

No more comment about the black/green version ?

What do you thing about this version :

        1 Forest
        1 Strip Mine
        2 Dark Depths
        2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
        3 Bayou
        3 Swamp
        4 Verdant Catacombs
        4 Wasteland
        3 Vampire Hexmage
        4 Dark Confidant
        4 Tarmogoyf
        1 Black Lotus
        1 Crucible of Worlds
        1 Lotus Petal
        1 Mox Emerald
        1 Mox Jet
        1 Pithing Needle
        2 Sensei's Divining Top
        1 Necropotence
        1 Darkblast
        1 Diabolic Edict
        1 Vampiric Tutor
        2 Nature's Claim
        4 Dark Ritual
        1 Demonic Tutor
        1 Imperial Seal
        1 Living Wish
        1 Yawgmoth's Will
        3 Thoughtseize
        4 Duress
SB:  1 Perish
SB:  1 Sadistic Sacrament
SB:  1 Helm of Obedience
SB:  2 Emissary of Despair
SB:  4 Leyline of the Void
SB:  1 Darkblast
SB:  1 Pithing Needle
SB:  1 Nature's Claim
SB:  1 Dark Depths
SB:  1 Vampire Hexmage
SB:  1 Bitterblossom

Nul Rod are replaced by Nature's Claim, no more demonic consultation but 2  Sensei's Divining Top, to help you getting the good cards, and keep life point with Dark Confidant
Also, I'll try living wish.

I might play this version in few days for a tournament, but I am not able to test it against someone Sad

The most expensive spell in the deck is Yawgmoth's Will/Necropotence so the tops are not necessary to prevent damage via confidant.  At most top is good to prevent extra land drawing but I honestly don't see the card in this deck.  Also since the entire deck runs on only a few mana I would rather cast thoughtseize/duress and disrupt than top.

Why would you remove the null rods for nature's claim?  You have artifact removal now but you don't stop moxen/lotus/vault/key/misc artifacts but you can remove two of them and chalice @ 2 won't kill you.  Not a good call in my opinion...too narrow.  I can't decide how good living wish is since I haven't tested it, but I think that consultation would probably be better.  Its on color and it accomplishes everything living wish does except getting emissarys vs shops game 1, and is an instant.  What I mean by that is consulting for hexmage or dark depths is most likely a better play than living wish for either one since its cheaper and the odds that you kill yourself by casting consult with multiple copies in the deck are sooo slim.  You can also consult out of desperation and take a chance on a game if you're gonna lose the game anyways.
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Eastman
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« Reply #95 on: September 27, 2010, 12:25:44 am »

Great primer. Can I ask why there is no Tendrils of Agony?  With Rituals, beaters, yawg will, and several black tutors, the tendrils line seems very beneficial. Even one would add the option.  

A second question: are helm/leyline really worth it? 5 slots is a lot. Maybe this is related to my Tendrils question inasmuch as I expect your answer to involve wanting a second line of play when jace or something shuts down your combo
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Djinn
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« Reply #96 on: September 27, 2010, 01:52:53 am »

Great primer. Can I ask why there is no Tendrils of Agony?  With Rituals, beaters, yawg will, and several black tutors, the tendrils line seems very beneficial. Even one would add the option.  

A second question: are helm/leyline really worth it? 5 slots is a lot. Maybe this is related to my Tendrils question inasmuch as I expect your answer to involve wanting a second line of play when jace or something shuts down your combo

In the past page or two, we've been discussing green and blue splashes instead of helmline, feel free to recommend anything else.
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2nd_lawl
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« Reply #97 on: September 27, 2010, 04:30:36 pm »

Great primer. Can I ask why there is no Tendrils of Agony?  With Rituals, beaters, yawg will, and several black tutors, the tendrils line seems very beneficial. Even one would add the option.  

A second question: are helm/leyline really worth it? 5 slots is a lot. Maybe this is related to my Tendrils question inasmuch as I expect your answer to involve wanting a second line of play when jace or something shuts down your combo

Jace doesn't shut down the combo.
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MagicMan
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« Reply #98 on: September 27, 2010, 05:11:03 pm »


[/quote]

Jace doesn't shut down the combo.
[/quote]

How does jace not shut u down being able to bounce Marit unless Im missing something?
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« Reply #99 on: September 27, 2010, 06:59:59 pm »

Because you create the big token at the end of his turn.
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« Reply #100 on: September 28, 2010, 03:23:38 am »

2nd lawl could you please give us a mini report from waterbury ? any new thoughts about the mono black version? have you tested something new from scars? ratchet trap seems decent but it cant play around cotv at two.
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Troy_Costisick
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« Reply #101 on: September 28, 2010, 04:25:26 am »



Jace doesn't shut down the combo.
[/quote]

How does jace not shut u down being able to bounce Marit unless Im missing something?
[/quote]

All you need is one attack.  So you pop the Depths at EoT, then attack with ML the next turn for 20.  It's uncommon for your opponent to get another turn to activate Jace.
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Eastman
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« Reply #102 on: September 29, 2010, 10:41:09 pm »

Hah ok so granted jace shutting down the combo is not so much of a concern as my aside made it out to be.


Nonetheless no one has any input on tendrils itself? 
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vrl
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« Reply #103 on: September 30, 2010, 01:15:03 am »

What about instead of 5 Leyline/Helm, we go 3 Painter's servant/2 Grindstone, or something like that?  You have a 2nd wincon and unless you get turn 0 leyline it is much cheaper, as it cost 6 mana total with the highest costing mana being 3, as opposed to two 4cc.  You could also maybe do 4 Painter's/1 Grindstone, or maybe even 3 Painters/1 Grindstone, and a beats equipment to make the Painter's servants or Bobs a little more threatening.  What do you think?

i believe helm/ void is the way to go considering yawg wil, crucible of worlds, bazaar, three cards that are heavily played in all the decks we have to beat. even if you wont assemble the combo getting helm online it adds dissruption to our game in contrast with your combo pieces that could be easily dead draws. considering other thoughts saying we shoulnt maindeck helm/ void i think that i disagree because in the first game you cannot rely exclusively in cards like null rod. i playtested a lot this deck and i have seen that null rod is great versus the modern mana drain decks (with the exception of de Mars list). i havent found it useful vs MUD as i never use it. i am still wondering if 4 null rod is the right play. i make a contrast with some thoughts of S. Menendian back in the days of suicide black 2k9 primer where he suggested playing 8 duress effects instead of hymn to tourach. we need targeted disruption. as i saw in an other conversation in this forum (i cant remember where) an idea that seems to have potential is using 4 pithing needle (i am not saying maindecking them, i believe that the maindecked list is great). with the disruption package that this deck has, i think p.needle has a chance because it can stop almost the same cards as null rod, it costs one mana less, and stops fetches and jace. i am afraid that null rod is slow because in the second turn we have to play a creature to get this deck going. i still use n.rod (i am trying to find a way to put some ancient tombs in there but it didnt work) but i ll try a different approach. 2nd lawl i havent seen a single answer in all these posts i made but we should keep discussing new ideas if we want to improve this deck.
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Tonmehr
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« Reply #104 on: October 01, 2010, 04:57:56 am »

I have become really interested in playing Dark Times.  Anyone have any general tips as far as piloting it?
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« Reply #105 on: October 01, 2010, 11:44:09 am »

I have become really interested in playing Dark Times.  Anyone have any general tips as far as piloting it?

Reading the whole thread is a fine way to start.
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BruiZar
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« Reply #106 on: October 01, 2010, 12:24:16 pm »

I have become really interested in playing Dark Times.  Anyone have any general tips as far as piloting it?

Reading the whole thread is a fine way to start.

Or actually playing the deck
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Tonmehr
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« Reply #107 on: October 02, 2010, 08:29:32 am »

I have become really interested in playing Dark Times.  Anyone have any general tips as far as piloting it?

Reading the whole thread is a fine way to start.

Or actually playing the deck

Thanks for the advice. 
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« Reply #108 on: October 02, 2010, 08:45:03 am »

Sooooo Yeahhhh Im an idiot lol

On the Tendrils Idea. I have been running 2nd Laws list for the past month in practice with the exception of adding 1 tendrils and 1 grim tutor. Tenrils has been good giving me several wins
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« Reply #109 on: October 03, 2010, 02:12:37 pm »

Sooooo Yeahhhh Im an idiot lol

On the Tendrils Idea. I have been running 2nd Laws list for the past month in practice with the exception of adding 1 tendrils and 1 grim tutor. Tenrils has been good giving me several wins

What did you remove for these two additions?  I'm more interested in how Grim Tutor has worked out for you.  Beseech the Queen may be just as suitable as Grim Tutor in this deck?
« Last Edit: October 04, 2010, 03:37:46 pm by Djinn » Logged
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« Reply #110 on: October 06, 2010, 06:01:42 pm »

Really huge question for you guys:

What do you guys think of running Null Rod? I'm thinking Null Rod in complement with Dark Confidant can help serve as an Alt Win or at the very least stall for enough time for you to get your win. (this is posted in the Null Rod Aggro Forum anyway Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy)

I know that Shops, Fish, and really Dredge do not get affected by it. But the main point is that it shuts down the opposing artifact mana. In compliment with 5 Wastelands and Dark Confidant, I have a hunch that it can help boost this deck forward.

Btw, a friend of mine remarked that there is no reason this deck should stay Mono Black. What do you think about it? I have seen versions that run Blue and versions that run Green. And I have been impressed by both but as an Oath/Tez player, I feel that the version with a Blue splash gives me more problems because of the more broken cards that blue offers:

Ancestral Recall
Time Walk
Bounce???
Brainstorm???
Gifts?
FOF?
Ponder???
Jace???????????(Seriously doubt this one though because its too much)

Tomehr:
Playing the deck and go online and finding all the articles on Dark Depths would be nice (even extended and to a lesser extent Legacy ones). But if you are looking for play advice, 2ndLawl has written his right here. Those who have not posted theirs either don't want to or don't have much to add.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2010, 06:09:48 pm by Cyberpunker » Logged

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« Reply #111 on: October 07, 2010, 06:53:58 am »

null rod has been included in this deck from its beginning. after extensive playtesting i have seen that its use is vs all the blue based decks mainly because of vault/ key, i am playtesting on the draw so i cant really say what is its use when on the play. i dont really like it but as all the others say it is crucial. i am afraid that null based deck havent got any chance against the current meta. as long as wotc doesnt print a null rod with legs or even better something like:

Leyline of the (null) rod  {4}
insert leyline cardtext
insert null rod text

with this adittion i believe that we will see a huge comeback of all null rod based decks. until that day comes i can just only dream.
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« Reply #112 on: October 07, 2010, 03:24:55 pm »

null rod has been included in this deck from its beginning. after extensive playtesting i have seen that its use is vs all the blue based decks mainly because of vault/ key, i am playtesting on the draw so i cant really say what is its use when on the play. i dont really like it but as all the others say it is crucial. i am afraid that null based deck havent got any chance against the current meta. as long as wotc doesnt print a null rod with legs or even better something like:

Leyline of the (null) rod  {4}
insert leyline cardtext
insert null rod text

with this adittion i believe that we will see a huge comeback of all null rod based decks. until that day comes i can just only dream.


But it stops the opponent's mana...does that not make that big of a difference for it to be included over other slots?
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« Reply #113 on: October 08, 2010, 12:35:47 am »

as i said before i am only playtesting with the worst case scenario. that means on the draw. so if you think about it in the most games my opponent plays turn one lan mox followed by confidant (blue control viriants, TPS) or something like oath. as you see i am in a really disadvangeous position. it is great on the play when first turn you have played thoughtseize or duress to get rid their explosive start. then we can start thinking about the mana denial strategy. maybe i am not piloting the deck correct but that is why i am discussing with all you guys. but most of the times when on the draw i am trying to play all my other stuff first and almost never played wasteland/ strip before my third turn. i believe that the mana denial plan vs blue is the strategy to go when on the play. that is not true when i play second vs MUD variants where i almost always play a wasteland  effect on the first turn (i pack at least 2 ghost quarter in my sb). vs MUD i prefer playing the helm/ void combo instead of null rod so i dont have an opinion about this strategy. thus the mana denial strategy really works vs MUD. i have asked 2nd lawl to make us a mini report from waterbury to see how his deck looked like with the addition of ghost quarter and how it worked for him but hasnt made one. i cant give you any feedback from tournaments so my opinion is based 100% from playtesting with friends.
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« Reply #114 on: October 08, 2010, 01:38:14 am »

I've been putting together a Dark Times deck and this thread has been a great help.

Question for you guys, has anyone thought about or tested Voltaic Key + Time Vault somewhere? I was thinking in the sideboard maybe in case Leyline is a dead card in a match-up why not side out 4 Leyline of the Void + Helm for Key/Vault + 3 more specific disruption cards like Bitterblossom for the Shops match-up? or what about throwing in Vault/Key in the main board as a 3rd 'oops i win' option?
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Djinn
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« Reply #115 on: October 08, 2010, 05:40:04 pm »

@ Cyberpunk

I'm confused as to why you are suggesting Null Rod.  It is in the list that 2ndLawl put and im pretty sure in every subsequent deck list posted here. 

To everyone:

Do you think any alterations need to be made for the un-restriction of gush to deal with gro decks?  Or should this be addressed in the SB? 

I've been putting together a Dark Times deck and this thread has been a help.

Question for you guys, has anyone thought about or tested Voltaic Key + Time Vault somewhere? I was thinking in the sideboard maybe in case Leyline is a dead card in a match-up why not side out 4 Leyline of the Void + Helm for Key/Vault + 3 more specific disruption cards like Bitterblossom for the Shops match-up? or what about throwing in Vault/Key in the main board as a 3rd 'oops i win' option?

The thing is, key and vault are also dead cards just like helm and leyline are when not paired together.  Leyline does something on its own and so does Helm, you can actually use Helm in a last ditch effort.  I don't think this really improves the deck, since there is already so much vault-key hate out there as well.  Also, if you are going to tutor for vault key, why not tutor for Hexmage and DD, since one swing with Marit Lage is GG anyways.  Dark Depths is also un-counterable.


My Last thing is, do you guys play Dark Depths because you think it is possible to be a #1 caliber deck in Vintage, or because you are playing on a budget?
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2nd_lawl
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« Reply #116 on: October 10, 2010, 04:14:52 am »



My Last thing is, do you guys play Dark Depths because you think it is possible to be a #1 caliber deck in Vintage, or because you are playing on a budget?

I play it because its my ugly baby Smile
I dont even have any proxies, so no budget is not a concern.
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« Reply #117 on: October 12, 2010, 05:28:12 pm »

I'm planning on going to a tournament this weekend and I can't decide if I should play Dark Depths or storm combo.  I've played Dark Depths before but it was not my original plan.  Take the metagame by surprise with DD or go with ole' faithful? Thoughts?
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Killane
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« Reply #118 on: October 13, 2010, 10:22:13 am »

As a lover of TPS, I can unfortuantely say that Storm combo is pretty much the nut low right now unless your meta is for some reason devoid of the Shop infestation that is everywhere else. While Dark Times is not a "Shopkiller", it does have a much better matchup then Storm based decks do.

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« Reply #119 on: October 13, 2010, 05:07:03 pm »

As a lover of TPS, I can unfortuantely say that Storm combo is pretty much the nut low right now unless your meta is for some reason devoid of the Shop infestation that is everywhere else. While Dark Times is not a "Shopkiller", it does have a much better matchup then Storm based decks do.



I would totally agree that Storm and TPS are having a difficult time right now.  Dark Times does have a better Shop matchup especially using Gate to Phyrexia and Bitterblossom post SB.
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