"The Unbroken" U/R Landstill: The Primer

[TakeYourTime]

Disfigure over Dismember?

I'd rather have my maindeck creautre removal not be dead against Lodestone Golem and Kuldotha Forgemaster...

Do you think Innocent Blood or Diabolic Edict would also be viable? Innocent Blood is nice because of its low CMC, but the opponent can drop a Forgemaster and Lightning Greaves in the same turn. I guess that's where Force of Will and maybe even Mindbreak Trap come in handy.


How about this:
-3 Disfigure
+2 Innocent Blood
+1 Dismember

[Kelwyrm]

Hello, Top8 with UR Ninjastill.

LCV Barcelona. 47 players fighting for a Mox Ruby, sanctioned tournament, so... no proxies allowed.

Loose against Marcel Milià - G/W Beatdown "Turbo Pet" in the swiss and against Jaume Bonet - Grixis Control "Olivia please!" in the top 8.
Win against 2x Forgemaster MUD (one of them Rubén Xicota AKA Benito Camelas ), 1x Jace Control and 1x Keeper.
Intentional draw with Alex Delgado - RUG Delver.

On bold cards that really shine during the day.

Top 8 - David Yépez - U/R Landstill

Maindeck:

1 Faerie Conclave
2 Island
1 Library of Alexandria
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Mountain
1 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Strip Mine
4 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
2 Ninja of the Deep Hours
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Black Lotus
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Echoing Truth
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Fire // Ice
2 Flusterstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Lightning Bolt
4 Mana Drain
2 Mental Misstep
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Misdirection
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
4 Standstill
1 Time Walk

Sideboard:

3 Ingot Chewer
2 Viashino Heretic
4 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
3 Pyroclasm
2 Relic of Progenitus

Regads.

[TakeYourTime]

Kelwyrm, thanks for sharing. How was Ninja of the Deep Hours? Could he be something better?

Also, did you have to make any card sacrifices due to no proxies? Thanks!

[Grand Inquisitor]

Ninja of the Deep Hours

He bolded them, so he must like them.  More specifically:

(1) Since they were so good, would you consider going in a more aggro direction?  Eg, using Delvers?
(2) How often were they hard cast vs. brought in with man lands?
(3) Given how much other removal seems to be about, how often were you protecting them?  Was Misstep & Misdirection crucial here?

Thanks.

[ecky]

Hey guys,
I've been fiddling with an UR/g shell with Fastbond and Gush in it - I took it to 2nd place at a 22-player Mox event, and before that won our monthly tournament (although it was only 12 players).
What are peoples thoughts on the splash? I haven't had any unwinnable matchups so far - I've managed to dodge Aggro decks fairly well. Most of my losses seem to come from color screw in the mana base. Currently 12 of the 25 mana sources don't provide Blue, which I think shows how insanely greedy the mana base is.

Here's my current list - the sideboard is a work in progress, I literally had to make it on the day the first time I played the list.
Credit should go to Josh Butler (shrewarmies) for the initial list that I've been tweaking over time! (or to anyone else who designed the deck before him)

2) James 'Jimbo" Dowling - U/R/g Gushstill
Lands (23)
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
3 Volcanic Island
2 Tropical Island
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Strip Mine

Artefacts (6)
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire

2 Engineered Explosives
2 Crucible of Worlds

Creatures (2)
2 Snapcaster Mage

Planeswalkers (4)
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Enchantments (5)
4 Standstill
1 Fastbond

Instants (20)
1 Ancestral Recall
3 Gush
1 Ancient Grudge
3 Lightning Bolt
4 Force of Will
3 Mana Drain
2 Steel Sabotage
2 Spell Snare
1 Flusterstorm

Sideboard (15)
4 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Ingot Chewer
2 Flusterstorm
1 Firespout
1 Dismember
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Pyroblast
1 Mental Misstep
1 Tormod's Crypt

[Kelwyrm]

First of all, sorry for not answering your questions sooner and my awful English.

Kelwyrm, thanks for sharing. How was Ninja of the Deep Hours? Could he be something better?

The "WTF" effect of the Ninja during the tournament was amazing.

I also tested...

-2 Ninjas.

with

+1 Jace.
+1 Engineered Explosives.

or

+2 Snapcasters

... but without any luck.

Also, did you have to make any card sacrifices due to no proxies? Thanks!

We play in a proxy-less environment, but I have a full collection of vintage playable singles, the list that you see is the list I wanted to play.

(1) Since they were so good, would you consider going in a more aggro direction?  Eg, using Delvers?

I tested the Delvers with my test group and voted against them... they were a bad choice when your main removal against aggro decks are mass removal cards, like EE, Disk and Pyroclasm.

(2) How often were they hard cast vs. brought in with man lands?

I try not to hard cast them.
4 mana cost with only Lotus and 2 moxen? It leaves you tapped for opponent response (sometimes the 4 manadrains leave you with the feeling that your opponent is drawing to many cards and you are only waiting your dead)
And late in the game if you don't have any man-lands to trick them into play... maybe you already lost the match.

(3) Given how much other removal seems to be about, how often were you protecting them?  Was Misstep & Misdirection crucial here?

Crucial and vital for survival, check the LCV metagame, it has shift from control to aggro in the past few months, and the decks have to accommodate lightnings, swords and decays main-board.

Regards.

[Soly]

Basically the deck never loses.

You're the champion of 5 man events.  GJ; in the last 5 times we've played, you've had turn 1 library, ancestral, or Jace.   EVERY TIME.  And yes, I've recorded it.

[pandaman]

Two weekends ago, I played URg Landstill to a 3-3 finish at the GP Melbourne Vintage side event.  I started 3-0, dropped my 4th round to God-draws from Grixis Control, punted the 5th against BG Hex-Depths, and won, but conceded, the 6th round, because I had a plane to catch and couldn't stick around for the Top 8.  My list was:

Maindeck

2 Island
1 Mountain
3 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire

1 Ancestral Recall
4 Standstill
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Echoing Truth
2 Crucible of Worlds

4 Lightning Bolt
3 Engineered Explosives

4 Force of Will
2 Misdirection
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Mental Misstep
2 Mindbreak Trap
4 Mana Drain

Sideboard

4 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Ingot Chewer
1 Viashano Heretic
1 Ancient Grudge
3 Firespout

I played pretty tight Magic in the first three rounds, beating Gush Delver 2-0, Noble Fish 2-0, and Remora Control 2-0.  Grixis God-drawed me in the first game to beat me 0-2 (Turn 1 Jace, then Turn 1 Strip Mine on my Library of Alexandria in the 2nd game), and I punted the 5th round against BG Depths, Draining a Bob when I had a Barbarian Ring with Threshold on the board, causing me to lose to the follow-up YawgWill.  6th round I played TurboTezz, against a friend who always seems to draw all the FoWs and Misdirections he needs to get big things through my counter-wall, and I managed to draw and cast all 4 JtMs's in my deck, finally sticking the fourth one, which netted me the match win (even though I cracked my own Standstill with a REB!).  I conceded to him because I had the best resistance of the bracket and he jumped into Top-8 in my stead.  Looking at the matchups in the Top 8, I think if I had been able to stay I would have had a reasonable crack at taking the entire thing down, I fancy Landstill has a reasonable shot at beating all the Top-8 decks.

So playing fair Magic in Vintage isn't quite dead.  I'll be continuing the Landstill crusade in the local Vintage league (I'm 2-1 at the moment) and also at the Bazaar of Moxen in Annecy in May this year.  I will be chasing more pimp for the deck - at GP Melbourne I fully foiled the sideboard, and I now only need 2 Foil Unhinged Island, 4 Foil Scalding Tarn, 1 Foil Misty Rainforest, 1 Foil Misdirection, and 3 Foil Wasteland (FNM Foil) to completely shine-ify it.  After that, a move needs to be made on some FBB German Volcs, a Trop, and a playset of Forces So if you're in Anncey, hit me up and say hello, I'll (probably) be one of only two Australians there! I am frantically studying French, so please bear with me when you chat to me!

[JPoJohnson]

If this is the incorrect place to post this, please forgive me. This is my first attempt at a vintage deck and for the moment, my list is unpowered. I'm working towards streamlining it (not wanting proxies) and have had quite a bit of help from pandaman so far. Just wanted to get people's opinions on the current list and the direction I'm taking it in. Thanks guys (:

Yes, this is the current list i own in paper that I'm testing. My first goal is to get mana drains (should have them soon) and then get a LoA to replace Academy Ruins. The deck is currently 61 cards. Anyone have thoughts or suggestions on the current list?
Current List

Unpowered URx Landstill
Lands (25)
2 Island
1 Mountain
3 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Polluted Delta
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Strip Mine
1 Academy Ruins
1 Barbarian Ring

Instants (21)
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Misdirection
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Mental Misstep
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Echoing Truth
1 Chain of Vapor

Enchantments (4)
4 Standstill

Artifacts (7)
4 Engineered Explosives
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Sensei's Divining Top

Planeswalkers (4)
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Sideboard (Obviously tweak to meta)
X Grafdigger's Cage
X Ingot Chewer
X Toxic Deluge
X Yislid Jailer/Leyline of the Void

[Samoht]

If you're losing Ancestral, you probably want to add another draw or CA card. I'm not sure exactly what, but that's a hefty loss to just replace with a counter. Otherwise it looks alright to me as an unpowered list, though it might want a Creeping Tar Pit or Mutavault.

[TheWhiteDragon]

If this is the incorrect place to post this, please forgive me. This is my first attempt at a legacy deck and for the moment, my list is unpowered. I'm working towards streamlining it (not wanting proxies) and have had quite a bit of help from pandaman so far. Just wanted to get people's opinions on the current list and the direction I'm taking it in. Thanks guys (:

Yes, this is the current list i own in paper that I'm testing. My first goal is to get mana drains (should have them soon) and then get a LoA to replace Academy Ruins. The deck is currently 61 cards. Anyone have thoughts or suggestions on the current list?
Current List

Unpowered URx Landstill
Lands (25)
2 Island
1 Mountain
3 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Polluted Delta
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Strip Mine
1 Academy Ruins
1 Barbarian Ring

Instants (21)
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Misdirection
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Mental Misstep
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Echoing Truth
1 Chain of Vapor

Enchantments (4)
4 Standstill

Artifacts (7)
4 Engineered Explosives
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Sensei's Divining Top

Planeswalkers (4)
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Sideboard (Obviously tweak to meta)
X Grafdigger's Cage
X Ingot Chewer
X Toxic Deluge
X Yislid Jailer/Leyline of the Void

Strip Mine is banned in Legacy.

Also, I'd try some spell pierce/snare in there instead of 1 reb and x number of counterspells.  Counterspell is okay, but double blue can be tough and you want to stop turn 1 shenanigans.

For another option at draw spell, you might try mystic remoras.  Turn 1 (when you can't play landstill without moxen)  you can drop remora and just draw off it until you can play standstill and tire of the upkeep.  Late game, it's like a 5th standstill that you can pay to keep around a while.

I'd also cut a bolt.  3 bolt and 4 EE seem excessive.  I think you have fish covered.  Especially with deluges in the sb.  Add another draw spell for bolt #3.  (I always wondered if horizon canopy couldn't be a decent non-spell draw engine with crucible)

[JPoJohnson]

If you're losing Ancestral, you probably want to add another draw or CA card. I'm not sure exactly what, but that's a hefty loss to just replace with a counter. Otherwise it looks alright to me as an unpowered list, though it might want a Creeping Tar Pit or Mutavault.

Yeah, aiming to get LoA first to help with that issue. I had tested with both Ponder and/or Brainstorm and liked how SDT plays under Standstill and is quite friendly with fetch lands so I'm using that for filtering at the moment (although I realize it's not CA so the LoA is a priority for that reason). I had tried to work in Faerie Conclave at one point. Would you say one of the card you recommend is a better option and if you would work in one of those manlands, what would you recommend it be subbed for?

Strip Mine is banned in Legacy.

Also, I'd try some spell pierce/snare in there instead of 1 reb and x number of counterspells.  Counterspell is okay, but double blue can be tough and you want to stop turn 1 shenanigans.

For another option at draw spell, you might try mystic remoras.  Turn 1 (when you can't play landstill without moxen)  you can drop remora and just draw off it until you can play standstill and tire of the upkeep.  Late game, it's like a 5th standstill that you can pay to keep around a while.

I'd also cut a bolt.  3 bolt and 4 EE seem excessive.  I think you have fish covered.  Especially with deluges in the sb.  Add another draw spell for bolt #3.  (I always wondered if horizon canopy couldn't be a decent non-spell draw engine with crucible)

Yes I realize it's not an ideal Vintage deck, thanks for trolling me with the Strip Mine haha. I'm going to be swapping the 4x Counterspells for 4x Mana Drains as I obtain them. As far as draw engine, Horizon Canopy is an interesting choice. I am working towards getting LoA for the CA slot as well.

I'm using the Bolts to handle opposing Planeswalkers that resolve as well as problem single creatures such as Dark Confidant and the like. Still cut down to 2?

I've liked having EE up at all times if possible as it prevents opponent's power/is a great board wipe against many aggro decks since they have similar CMC. Since I'm always wanting to see one, that's why I chose to go with 4. Still go down to 3?

And lastly, as I said above. I had tested with a draw spell such as Ponder and/or Brainstorm but really liked SDT for the way it worked under Standstill as well as played nicely with fetches. Would you still choose to have more draw spells since a single SDT may not get there many times?

[Samoht]

You said Legacy is all the WhiteDragon was pointing out, despite his penchant for trolling that was likely in earnest.

I think CPT is the best of the manlands if you're on black. Conclave almost never blocks and the one less damage can be relevant (chumping Lodestone in particular).

It doesn't have to be a 1 cmc card, Gifts Ungiven, Fact or Fiction, or even Stroke of Genius are things you can consider to try to get the power spike that Ancestral would normally bring you.

[JPoJohnson]

Oh, well that was rather foolish of me

I think I'm going to try Notion Thief in the side since it could be pretty powerful against a lot of decks (primarily against Burning Oath/Timetwister storm shenanigans?). With the splash being black over green, I think that could work out alright.

And good point. If I were to try and work them into the deck, something like this most likely:

Unpowered URx Landstill
Lands (25)
2 Island
1 Mountain
3 Volcanic Island
1 Underground Sea
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Polluted Delta
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Strip Mine
1 Academy Ruins (Soon switch to LoA)
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Creeping Tar Pit

Instants (22)
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell (Soon switch to Mana Drain)
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Misdirection
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Mental Misstep
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Echoing Truth
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Fact or Fiction

Enchantments (4)
4 Standstill

Artifacts (6)
3 Engineered Explosives
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Sensei's Divining Top

Planeswalkers (4)
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Sideboard (Obviously tweak to meta)
X Grafdigger's Cage
X Ingot Chewer
X Toxic Deluge
X Yislid Jailer/Leyline of the Void
1 Underground Sea
1 Notion Thief

[JPoJohnson]

2 Riley Curran - URbg Landstill
3 Mental Misstep
3 Spell Snare
1 Flusterstorm
2 Negate
1 Mana Drain
2 Mindbreak Trap
4 Force of Will
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Time Walk
4 Standstill
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
3 Volcanic Island
2 Tropical Island
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Polluted Delta
2 Island
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine

Sideboard
2 Ravenous Trap
1 Surgical Extraction
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Underground Sea
1 Energy Flux
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Dismember
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle

This list just placed 2nd at the Team Serious Open Results on April 12. Was just curious. Anyone know why you would play 2 negates over 2 mana drains? Would it be that hard to get the second blue source early on that you would want to run negates over drains ever?

[GrandpaBelcher]

This list just placed 2nd at the Team Serious Open Results on April 12. Was just curious. Anyone know why you would play 2 negates over 2 mana drains? Would it be that hard to get the second blue source early on that you would want to run negates over drains ever?

That's pretty much the reason I've heard, talking to Riley (I don't remember if he's on TMD or not). Opening with blue source and Mishra's Factory, for example. Also having multiple counters in a situation like blue, blue, Factory. That could be one Mana Drain or Negate AND Spell Snare (or whatever).

[hashswag]

This list just placed 2nd at the Team Serious Open Results on April 12. Was just curious. Anyone know why you would play 2 negates over 2 mana drains? Would it be that hard to get the second blue source early on that you would want to run negates over drains ever?

That's pretty much the reason I've heard, talking to Riley (I don't remember if he's on TMD or not). Opening with blue source and Mishra's Factory, for example. Also having multiple counters in a situation like blue, blue, Factory. That could be one Mana Drain or Negate AND Spell Snare (or whatever).

Not quite applicable to this deck, but I've had some success cutting a couple of drains for Unified Wills in creature-heavy decks recently, so there's definitely an argument for valuing the mana flexibility over the situational usefulness at times.

[JPoJohnson]

So when would you want to play a full playset of Mana Drains and when would you not want to?

[WhiteLotus]

So when would you want to play a full playset of Mana Drains and when would you not want to?

I'm not a specialist of landstill but I think you want at least 3 mana drains in that deck, it helps to ensure you almost never tap down your mana during your turn to play a jace, crucible, etc In the worse case It pays for the activation of your manlands, It also serves the role of the second hard counter aside from Force of will. Situational counters are very effective but in a proper counter suite you want at least half of your countermagic to be hard counters. Mana drain is also very strong against Workshops.

[Tha Gunslinga]

You pretty much always want 3-4 Drains.  I would personally go with 0 on the Negates--I think pretty much anything is going to be better, but that's just me.

[hashswag]

I would also play a full set of drains in Standstill. The deck should have a sufficiently diverse suite of counters that there's no need to cut Drains for situational counters, rather than cutting something else.

[JPoJohnson]

I assumed as much, just was surprised to see only one. Thanks guys (:

Anyone else have any feedback or advice on the current decklist I have?

Unpowered URx Landstill
Lands (25)
2 Island
1 Mountain
3 Volcanic Island
1 Underground Sea
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Polluted Delta
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Strip Mine
1 Academy Ruins/Library of Alexandria (Not sure which I'm favouring)
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Creeping Tar Pit

Instants (22)
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Misdirection
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Mental Misstep
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Echoing Truth
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Fact or Fiction

Enchantments (4)
4 Standstill

Artifacts (6)
3 Engineered Explosives
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Sensei's Divining Top

Planeswalkers (4)
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Sideboard (Obviously tweak to meta)
X Grafdigger's Cage
X Ingot Chewer
X Toxic Deluge
X Yislid Jailer/Leyline of the Void
1 Underground Sea
1 Notion Thief

[WhiteLotus]

I assumed as much, just was surprised to see only one. Thanks guys (:

Anyone else have any feedback or advice on the current decklist I have?

Unpowered URx Landstill
Lands (25)
2 Island
1 Mountain
3 Volcanic Island
1 Underground Sea
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Polluted Delta
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Strip Mine
1 Academy Ruins/Library of Alexandria (Not sure which I'm favouring)
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Creeping Tar Pit

Instants (22)
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Misdirection
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Mental Misstep
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Echoing Truth
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Fact or Fiction

Enchantments (4)
4 Standstill

Artifacts (6)
3 Engineered Explosives
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Sensei's Divining Top

Planeswalkers (4)
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Sideboard (Obviously tweak to meta)
X Grafdigger's Cage
X Ingot Chewer
X Toxic Deluge
X Yislid Jailer/Leyline of the Void
1 Underground Sea
1 Notion Thief

I think you probably want to splash green over black to make use of ancient grudge.
MOST DEFINETELY Library over academy ruins, Landstill is probably the deck that abuses library the most.
Fact and fiction is not want you want since you don't have Ywill to abuse it and you're not digging deep for anything in particular.
I'd def see at least one Fire and Ice in there.
If you want to capitilize on utility artefacts you can add a couple Trinket mages.
I'd consider mooving a reb to the side and adding a third misstep.
Ninja of the deep hour can be pretty cool with landstill and manlands.

Sb would like Pyroclasm, Viashino heretic, possibly pithing needle and as for UR dredge hate Ravenous trap is pretty awesome especially since your deck has no trouble protecting it and you already have wastelands/ strip to deal with bazaar, grafdigger's cage to stop what's in the grave, so ravenous trap to empty it seems pretty solid.

my 2 cents

[JPoJohnson]

I think you probably want to splash green over black to make use of ancient grudge.
MOST DEFINETELY Library over academy ruins, Landstill is probably the deck that abuses library the most.
Fact and fiction is not want you want since you don't have Ywill to abuse it and you're not digging deep for anything in particular.
I'd def see at least one Fire and Ice in there.
If you want to capitilize on utility artefacts you can add a couple Trinket mages.
I'd consider mooving a reb to the side and adding a third misstep.
Ninja of the deep hour can be pretty cool with landstill and manlands.

Sb would like Pyroclasm, Viashino heretic, possibly pithing needle and as for UR dredge hate Ravenous trap is pretty awesome especially since your deck has no trouble protecting it and you already have wastelands/ strip to deal with bazaar, grafdigger's cage to stop what's in the grave, so ravenous trap to empty it seems pretty solid.

my 2 cents

I know the green splash use and had contemplated over that quite a bit. After speaking to several people that run URx Landstill, apparently black is the best splash at the moment with how much aggro as well as access to Yixlid Jailer which is apparently extremely hard to answer by Dredge as well as Toxic Deluge which wipes basically any matchup. My original build was URg with access to Tropical for the ancient, but am running 3 E.E. and think that it will be able to hopefully handle most artifacts (most are 3 or under that are played that I've seen) as well as Toxic Deluge for the big artifact threats like BSC.

I'm favouring Library over Academy Ruins at this point (especially on the draw) and your capslock pushes me over the edge to play the Library over the ruins at this point. Thanks (:

Fact and Fiction (as discussed a few posts back) was to help generate card advantage. If I dropped it, would you replace it with Fire//Ice? What is it about Fire//Ice that you love it so much? I've seen some great uses, but I never personally thought about it as an auto-include.

I've REALLY been on the fence about Trinket Mage. I've seen people utilize it extremely well. The fact that it can fetch either E.E. or Top in the game as well as Cage out of the side has made me really want to run it, but I'm thinking for the most part I wouldn't want to be dropping it T3 since that can be a pretty crucial turn against many decks (But it leaves the T2 open for Yixlid/E.E./Standstill/Mana Drain so at least it doesn't block that out. What would you take out for mage? It's just so hard to fit cards into this deck (at least it feels that way for me).

REB/Mental Misstep would definitely occur if the meta called for it.

I had Ninja of the Deep Hour in the deck for a little while. I've been jumping between running him and not running him. I completely agree, he's phenomenal! I'll continue testing with and without him.


TLDR:
1. Tested green splash and I feel the black is better at this point. I know both are strong
2. Library > Ruins
3. What makes you feel like Fire//Ice is an auto-include for the deck? I assume you recommend including it instead of Fact or Fiction (FoF was included for card advantage).
4. Trinket Mage seems really great, but I'm not sure how to cut cards to include it
5. Ninja of Deep Hour is great. I've played with and without and I like him.

Thanks for the thoughts! Definitely some great food for thought in there (:

[Untranslated]

Whew, finally made it through this massive thread. I know right, what kind of a nut reads the entire thing.

Thanks Josh, for the initial post with card selections, analysis and list changes, and for sharing your experience and insight with us. Your transparency points to your strength as a player; your results speak for themselves.

Also appreciate the thoughtful questions and responses as part of the Landstill discussion. Could have done without the bickering of course, but everyone has their own perceptions and opinions.   

Overall a good read. Really enjoyed learning about this archetype and the various possibilities to keep in mind.

Btw, how's the TPS matchup?

[JPoJohnson]

That completely depends on the decklist that you have. Some decks gear more towards aggro matchups and others not as much. What are you currently looking at decklist wise? (:

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

Here's my list from champs that I started 6-1 with and then lost my win and in round to miss top 8. The list was excellent

URW Landstill

4 Standstill
4 Jace the Mind Sculptor
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Balance
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Fire / Ice
2 Crucible of Worlds
4 Engineered Explosives
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
4 Mental Misstep
2 Red Elemental Blast

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Mountain
1 Island
3 Tundra
1 Plateau
2 Volcanic Island
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Academy Ruins
1 Strip Mine
3 Wasteland
4 Mishras Factory

SIDEBOARD
4 Grafdiggers Cage
2 Tormods Crypt
2 Goblin Welder
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Lightning Bolt
2 Wear / Tear
2 Ingot Chewer

Round 1 - Win 2-0 vs Martello
Round 2 - Win 2-1 vs Bob Pyromancer Grixis
Round 3 - Win 2-0 vs Tezzeret
Round 4 - Win 2-0 vs Treasure Cruise Delver
Round 5 - Lose 0-2 vs Buried Ruin, Crucible, Smokestack shops
Round 6 - Win 2-0 vs Delver
Round 7 - Win 2-0 vs Martello

So this is my win and in round at a record of 6-1. It's a o round event and I need to be 7-1-1 to top 8.

Round 8 - Lose 1-2 vs Delver. I thought I had the game won with jace at 10 and just cleared the board. I'm at 8 life thinking I'm going to stabilize and he shows me that he's sandbagging 3 bolts in his hand. So I was sad...I then went on life tilt and lost the next round.

Round 9 - Lose 1-2 vs Grixis Show and Tell griselbrand...yup

I ended up finishing in 30th place out of 321 players which I suppose isn't too bad. Although I feel like I should have broken through into the top 8. This is the 2nd time in 3 years I end up losing my win and in round and not pushing through. This list felt great. Some of the all stars of the day were Balance and Academy Ruins without a doubt!

[TakeYourTime]

Excellent work, Josh. I was really hoping you, me, or Lance would make it all the way. You had an impressive performance nonetheless! You can always take it down next year 

[vaughnbros]

Balance!  That's pretty sweet.  My tournament started just a tad different than yours, but the end result of 6-3 was the same.  Here was the list I played (I don't own library or lotus):

Card Advantage:
1 Vendilion Clique
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Dack Fayden
4 Standstill
4 Treasure Cruise
1 Ancestral Recall
2 Crucible of Worlds

Counters:
4 Mental Misstep
4 Force of Will
2 Mindbreak Trap

Removal:
3 Engineered Explosives
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Dismember

Mana:
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
2 Island
2 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland

SB: 4 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 3 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 4 Ingot Chewer
SB: 1 Mountain
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Notion Thief

Round 1 against UR Delver:
Game 1 - I didn't know what deck he was on at the beginning of the game, and used my wastelands too aggressively.  I ended up needing the mana later in the game, and was stuck on 3 mana with a Jace in my hand while we were both in top deck mode.  He drew a threat before I drew a land and the game was over.
Game 2 - He resolved a treasure cruise first and managed to stop me from resolving my own.
Games 0-2
Matches 0-1

Round 2 against TerraNova:
Game 1 - Some back and forth of wastelanding, and factory beats, but he ends up locking me out and dropping a lodestone.
Game 2 - I stick a standstill, but he wins the landwar so I pop my own standstill to clique, which he promptly dismembers.  I stabilize from his threats on my turn, and he drops double coercive portal on his, but I drop crucible and get him under waste lock.
Game 3 - He gets double coercive portal out again, then follows with a crucible.  I steal his crucible with Dack, but he has another and I don't have a waste to keep his factory at bay.
Games 1-4
Matches 0-2

I'm out of the top 8 from here, but stayed in it to try and top 64.

Round 3 against 4C Delver -
Game 1 - He cruises once or twice, but my wastelands, factories, and removal are enough to steal this game even though I'm behind on card advantage the whole game.
Game 2 - I treasure cruise and standstill multiple times this game, and just bury him in card advantage.
Games 3-4
Matches 1-2

Round 4 against Oath -
Game 1 - I stop a turn 1 Jace with force and then factory beats take it the rest of the way.
Game 2 - I drop an early standstill and then follow in suite with factory beats again.
Games 5-4
Matches 2-2

Round 5 against Martello -
Game 1 or 2 -  I stabilize at 1 life stealing his phyrexian revoker with a Dack Fayden.
I don't remember the other game, but I won it.
Games 7-4
Matches 3-2

Round 6 against Espresso -
Game 1 - I lose to smokestack+crucible hitting the table.
Game 2 - I play first turn mox ruby, factory, turn 2 factory, and along with his ancient tomb I take him down on turn 5, stopping a tanglewire that would've stalled my aggro plan a long the way with a force of will.
Game 3 - He plays smokestack, but I'm able to keep up in permanents by treasure cruising twice underneath it, and countering his crucible.
Games 9-5
Matches 4-2

Round 7 against UR Delver -
Don't remember the details, but I win both games off a lot of card advantage generated from treasure cruise and standstill.
Games 11-5
Matches 5-2

Round 8 against UR Delver -
Game 1 - He mulls to 5 and my wastelands+Jace fateseal keep him landless for most of the game.
Game 2 - I answer his first couple threats but, he wastes me off double blue preventing me from casting my clique, and I only manage to draw 3 mental missteps, while starting down a Pyromancer.
Game 3 - We both mulligan this game, but hes on the draw, and has a turn 1 ancestrall, which I can't counter.  I'm able to answer his first couple threats, but I'm just always behind in card this game and he eventually manages to keep a Pyromancer around.
Games 12-7
Matches 5-3

Round 9 against Forgemaster -
Game 1 - He drops a first turn steel hellkite, but I have a dismember followed by a couple of standstills and a Jace.  After which he plays double tangle wire and wurmcoil, I start bouncing the wurmcoil, he plays a second tangle wire and wurmcoil again the next turn, followed by a forgemaster+the wurmcoil.  I use a factory to save my Jace.  Finally with the last wire fading I'm able to play a crucible and wastelock him, but he manages to revoke and kill my Jace and put me to 6 in the process.  I find a lightning bolt off a treasure cruise to answer the revoker then drop another Jace to bounce the wurmcoil.
Game 2 - He drops turn 1 sphere, turn 2 forgemaster (I kill with dismember), and turn 3 sundering titan destroying both of my lands.
Game 3 - I ingot chewer his first 2 threats, and drop a standstill.  I pop my own standstill with clique, then drop another standstill on my turn.
Games 14-8
Matches 6-3

Overall the list was excellent.  If I didn't make so many last second changes I feel I should've been able to win at least 1 of those first two matches.

All stars: Dack Fayden, and treasure cruise.  I was able to play cruise for 1 or 2 all day even against multiple spheres, and Dack pulled me out of a number of bad situations against shops.  

Weakest Link:  Engineered explosives.  I regularly had no good targets to destroy with it, and it would usually end up being an over costed 1 for 1.  I'm not sure if there are more efficient options for a removal spell as versatile as it in these colors.  I really wish the deck could support Abrupt Decay.

MIA: Toxic deluge or Volcanic fallout probably should have been in the 75 as they could've turned around all the games I lost to delver.

[Shock Wave]

Amazing that you found a list that worked against Treasure Cruise Delver. Admittedly, I didn't put too much time into looking outside the box for solutions, but my feeling was that there was just no way to compete against that draw engine.

The inclusion of Balance is awesome. I have never been able to make that card work in Landstill, since I found in the past that it just hoses my lands, but I suppose the 2 x Crucible served you very well.

Great work, and great results ... even with the narrow T8 miss.