"The Unbroken" U/R Landstill: The Primer

[Patoon]

Quick note here.

I am playing in a Vintage League in Sydney (more details here http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=45266.0).

I ran with this list for my round 5 match-up and was paired against Pokey's build of Bomberman. Close games, experienced pilots on both sides, but I got up 2-0.

I think this revision is very strong against Bomberman.

MVP of our match, timely Dismember on Salvagers, Barbarian Ring under Standstill cleanup, Library of Alexandria, and Jace's Ultimate FTW in both games.

[Bill Copes]

Right.  I had forgotten laready.  This combo still seems slow and vulnerable.  Not sure it's right for this shell since landstill is all about being consistent and these two cards are both underpowered on their own.

Perhaps the solution is to lean a little more on expedition map instead of the combo pieces.  Map makes crucible + strip a consistent thing.  It also opens up the possibility of running toolbox lands in the sideboard.

[vaughnbros]

Right.  I had forgotten laready.  This combo still seems slow and vulnerable.  Not sure it's right for this shell since landstill is all about being consistent and these two cards are both underpowered on their own.

Perhaps the solution is to lean a little more on expedition map instead of the combo pieces.  Map makes crucible + strip a consistent thing.  It also opens up the possibility of running toolbox lands in the sideboard.

Just throwing it out there that Tolaria west >>> expedition map for landstill.

[StanleyAugust]

Right.  I had forgotten laready.  This combo still seems slow and vulnerable.  Not sure it's right for this shell since landstill is all about being consistent and these two cards are both underpowered on their own.

Perhaps the solution is to lean a little more on expedition map instead of the combo pieces.  Map makes crucible + strip a consistent thing.  It also opens up the possibility of running toolbox lands in the sideboard.

Just throwing it out there that Tolaria west >>> expedition map for landstill.

Good catch.

[Tha Gunslinga]

Won day 2 of the NYSE event.  14 players I think.


Needs some Null Rods in the sb, but I still squeaked out wins vs Bomberman without them.

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

Played this at the NYSE OPEN 1 Saturday

4th – Josh Potucek
U/R/g Landstill

4 Standstill
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Ancient Grudge
3 Lightning Bolt
1 Dismember
3 Engineered Explosives
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
2 Mental Misstep
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Spell Pierce
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra’s Factory
2 Island
1 Mountain
2 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
1 Faerie Conclave
4 Scalding Tarn

SB:

1 Red Elemental Blast
4 Grafdigger’s Cage
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Tormod’s Crypt
3 Ingot Chewer
2 Goblin Welder
1 Firespout

Round 1, 2-1 win vs Mike Moy on Dredge
Round 2, 0-2 loss vs Adrian on Affinity Shops
Round 3, 2-0 win vs Craig Masely on oath
Round 4, 2-0 win vs JP Kohler on aggro ankh mud
Round 5, 2-1 win vs Justin Kohler on Bomberman (won thus depite turn 1 jace game 1 and turn 1 clique time walk game 2 both off lotus...)
Round 6, 2-1 win vs Marco on Bug fish
Round 7, ID
Top 8, 2-0 win vs Craig Berry on Blue Angels
Top 4, 0-2 loss vs Lance Ballaster on UR Trinket landstill

I lost in the top 4 to Lance on UR Landstill with trinket package. He beat me in 2 games oddly enough both games were won on his part by top deck crucibe for the win. In game 1 I mulliganed to 6 with a semi shaky hand. I come back and land a jace and my own crucible, he clears jace then top decks his 1 crucible in his deck to pull back in the game sadly no grudge from me.  Game 2 I have him at 3 life with man land beats when he top decked crucible AGAIN to save him, and yet again I am not holding grudge or chewer. Thing that erks me about this is he is only running 1 crucible. He was just running hot...

[vaughnbros]

I lost in the top 4 to Lance on UR Landstill with trinket package. He beat me in 2 games oddly enough both games were won on his part by top deck crucibe for the win. In game 1 I mulliganed to 6 with a semi shaky hand. I come back and land a jace and my own crucible, he clears jace then top decks his 1 crucible in his deck to pull back in the game sadly no grudge from me.  Game 2 I have him at 3 life with man land beats when he top decked crucible AGAIN to save him, and yet again I am not holding grudge or chewer. Thing that erks me about this is he is only running 1 crucible. He was just running hot...

You are rather over simplifying how those games went.  They were both long games in which there were a large number of choices that could have been made differently by both you and I.  

Game 1 you had both a Jace, and your own crucible in play when I killed you.  At the end you choose to drop Jace and dig for an answer rather than protect yourself from my attacking factories costing you a few turns.
Game 2 you used a grudge to destroy two of my factories early on and I fatesealed one of your chewers to the bottom later on.  Jace is what won me that game though not crucible.  He found me my crucible and denied you the ability to draw your outs to it.  In that game you gave away your chance to kill Jace in order to hit me to 3.  It may have turned out different had you attacked him instead.

In both of these games you exhausted most of your counter magic and removal on handling my trinket mages.  I think the higher threat density of my deck is what propelled me to victory here.

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

I lost in the top 4 to Lance on UR Landstill with trinket package. He beat me in 2 games oddly enough both games were won on his part by top deck crucibe for the win. In game 1 I mulliganed to 6 with a semi shaky hand. I come back and land a jace and my own crucible, he clears jace then top decks his 1 crucible in his deck to pull back in the game sadly no grudge from me.  Game 2 I have him at 3 life with man land beats when he top decked crucible AGAIN to save him, and yet again I am not holding grudge or chewer. Thing that erks me about this is he is only running 1 crucible. He was just running hot...

You are rather over simplifying how those games went.  They were both long games in which there were a large number of choices that could have been made differently by both you and I.  

Game 1 you had both a Jace, and your own crucible in play when I killed you.  At the end you choose to drop Jace and dig for an answer rather than protect yourself from my attacking factories costing you a few turns.
Game 2 you used a grudge to destroy two of my factories early on and I fatesealed one of your chewers to the bottom later on.  Jace is what won me that game though not crucible.  He found me my crucible and denied you the ability to draw your outs to it.  In that game you gave away your chance to kill Jace in order to hit me to 3.  It may have turned out different had you attacked him instead.

In both of these games you exhausted most of your counter magic and removal on handling my trinket mages.  I think the higher threat density of my deck is what propelled me to victory here.

I understand I had my own crucible in play, but I didn't have any waste effects myself and you top decked your 1 outer in crucible while barb ring was in the grave to seal the deal. Once you dropped crucible of course I need to cast jace to dig, bc I saw barb ring in your grave and I KNEW i needed EE on 3 or grudge to stop that. You already had the upper hand at that point. Crucible WINS the mirror. And again you were fortunate to draw your 1 of...

In game 2 I used grudge to kill your 2 factories bc that is a good play point blank. You dropped jace later in the game and immediately fatesealed yourself pumping jace at this point you were already under 10 life and factory and conclave went to town. You brainstormed 2 times with that jace finding again...your 1 of crucible...which found waste in grave to stop me from killing you and you were at 3 life...

So no I'm not simplifying it at all, crucible DID win you both games. As far as trinket mage I bolted it, hardcasted trap, and mana drained it in the matchup. I would hardly say they were a difference in the matchup. B/c in me even using those 3 cards I still have more removal and countermagic then your list.

So I guess we'll have to agree to disagree here. I do feel like drawing your 1 outer in both game was the difference, the other cards are irrel, CRUCIBLE wins the mirror point blank...

Nevertheless congrats on the 2nd place finish 

[vaughnbros]

I lost in the top 4 to Lance on UR Landstill with trinket package. He beat me in 2 games oddly enough both games were won on his part by top deck crucibe for the win. In game 1 I mulliganed to 6 with a semi shaky hand. I come back and land a jace and my own crucible, he clears jace then top decks his 1 crucible in his deck to pull back in the game sadly no grudge from me.  Game 2 I have him at 3 life with man land beats when he top decked crucible AGAIN to save him, and yet again I am not holding grudge or chewer. Thing that erks me about this is he is only running 1 crucible. He was just running hot...

You are rather over simplifying how those games went.  They were both long games in which there were a large number of choices that could have been made differently by both you and I.  

Game 1 you had both a Jace, and your own crucible in play when I killed you.  At the end you choose to drop Jace and dig for an answer rather than protect yourself from my attacking factories costing you a few turns.
Game 2 you used a grudge to destroy two of my factories early on and I fatesealed one of your chewers to the bottom later on.  Jace is what won me that game though not crucible.  He found me my crucible and denied you the ability to draw your outs to it.  In that game you gave away your chance to kill Jace in order to hit me to 3.  It may have turned out different had you attacked him instead.

In both of these games you exhausted most of your counter magic and removal on handling my trinket mages.  I think the higher threat density of my deck is what propelled me to victory here.

I understand I had my own crucible in play, but I didn't have any waste effects myself and you top decked your 1 outer in crucible while barb ring was in the grave to seal the deal. Once you dropped crucible of course I need to cast jace to dig, bc I saw barb ring in your grave and I KNEW i needed EE on 3 or grudge to stop that. You already had the upper hand at that point. Crucible WINS the mirror. And again you were fortunate to draw your 1 of...

In game 2 I used grudge to kill your 2 factories bc that is a good play point blank. You dropped jace later in the game and immediately fatesealed yourself pumping jace at this point you were already under 10 life and factory and conclave went to town. You brainstormed 2 times with that jace finding again...your 1 of crucible...which found waste in grave to stop me from killing you and you were at 3 life...

So no I'm not simplifying it at all, crucible DID win you both games. As far as trinket mage I bolted it, hardcasted trap, and mana drained it in the matchup. I would hardly say they were a difference in the matchup. B/c in me even using those 3 cards I still have more removal and countermagic then your list.

So I guess we'll have to agree to disagree here. I do feel like drawing your 1 outer in both game was the difference, the other cards are irrel, CRUCIBLE wins the mirror point blank...

Nevertheless congrats on the 2nd place finish 

All Im saying is that while I may have drawn better than you in both games it was not simply I drew and casted my 1-of crucible.  There was a lot more to those games.  I did have one other out to kill you game 1 in lightning bolt and in game 2 I had lightning bolt, conclave, waste, and clique as outs in order to stabilize.  I know it may have seemed like trinket mages just got countered so they had no effect, but they baited that counter allowing me to follow it up with a Jace both times which you no longer had a counter for.

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

Sure, but crucible does and will win the mirror almost every time. And yeah you most certainly drew better but its a mute point now lol I'll hope for revenge next time around. At least we both walked out with power! Good job and see you next time.

[vaughnbros]

Sure, but crucible does and will win the mirror almost every time. And yeah you most certainly drew better but its a mute point now lol I'll hope for revenge next time around. At least we both walked out with power! Good job and see you next time.

Yeh I think we both definitely made out alright and I will look forward to beating you again!

I noticed in this tournament that my deck was pretty weak against a resolved wurmcoil engine, tarmogoyf, BSC, and any other large creatures.  So I'm strongly considering running the new fuse card turn//burn.  I don't know if you've tried to card or would have any input on it.

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

Sure, but crucible does and will win the mirror almost every time. And yeah you most certainly drew better but its a mute point now lol I'll hope for revenge next time around. At least we both walked out with power! Good job and see you next time.

Yeh I think we both definitely made out alright and I will look forward to beating you again!

I noticed in this tournament that my deck was pretty weak against a resolved wurmcoil engine, tarmogoyf, BSC, and any other large creatures.  So I'm strongly considering running the new fuse card turn//burn.  I don't know if you've tried to card or would have any input on it.

Hahaha, I would suggest dismember as a 1 of. Even without black its great vs goyf and forgemaster. Non colored mana intensive. I look at dismember as I woukd rather take 4 life off instead of take multiple attacks from a big guy or lose to a forgemaster and like I said it can always be cast no matter what your mana on board is... Turn and burn can be good I tested it minimally. Another fun card is Nev Disk...doesn't  handle BSC though...back when tinker decks were more popular I was running e-truth, steel sabotage, and hurks. E-truths diversity might be worth playing again its great vs so many things and squeezing in a sabotage might be good too...

[mr.grim]

Dismember was huge for me all day in NY. The main issue I had was decks with a ton of little dudes . I finished 23 rd ,going 4 and 3. I lost to Dixon on shops , BUG and Brian Kell on humans. Humans was the hardest matchup of the day.That loss kept me from taking home a Bazaar.The build I ran had more outs VS higher count creatures, however; it was still a slightly uphill battle.

MAD PROPS TO BOTH OF YOU !!!
PROPS to Mr. Carp as well on his day 2 win.

[Samoht]

Dismember was huge for me all day in NY. The main issue I had was decks with a ton of little dudes . I finished 23 rd ,going 4 and 3. I lost to Dixon on shops , BUG and Brian Kell on humans. Humans was the hardest matchup of the day.That loss kept me from taking home a Bazaar.The build I ran had more outs VS higher count creatures, however; it was still a slightly uphill battle.

MAD PROPS TO BOTH OF YOU !!!
PROPS to Mr. Carp as well on his day 2 win.

That game 2 was insane. t1 Welder t2 Heretic. Having Revoker and Metamorph was alright until you had removal. I thought our match was tough on you, maybe I'm just lucky

[mr.grim]

@ Tom. I really think the match up was 50/50. I agree that countering the wire was the wrong call. The best part of my day was welding lsg back in to to feed him to the heretic.

[Samoht]

@ Tom. I really think the match up was 50/50. I agree that countering the wire was the wrong call. The best part of my day was welding lsg back in to to feed him to the heretic.

I mean, that game was over before you did that - but it must have been sweet!  It is definitely a close MU, and winning the die roll was pretty sweet for me.

[mr.grim]

Always a pleasure , sir. I will look to tie up our series the next time we play.   

[MTGFan]

Question for you Landstill players:

When you are playing against Shops decks, what specific cards do you hate to see the most, or are the most effective vs. your deck?

And what sideboard cards, specifically, in either blue or mono-colored (artifact) are the most dangerous for the Landstill player.

Thanks for the input.

[orgcandman]

Crucible leads to big frowns. Otherwise there's no single card I fear.

Explosive diarrhea starts are bad (both in the literal sense, and the empty hand of lock pieces plus golem on turn 1 sense).

Basically, the landstill player should be aggressively mulling to strong CA oriented hand and a single f.o.w to stop brokenness, while the shops player needs to mull to a fast start. That's my experience, anyway.

[credmond]

Mulling agressively to standstill/FOW hands won't work if the shops player is playing 8 manland shops.

I don't find myself aggressively mulling to fight shops. The main thing I look for in my opening grip is a stable manabase and being able to make lands drops and having answers like explosives or bolt or chewer or welder.

[orgcandman]

Mulling agressively to standstill/FOW hands won't work if the shops player is playing 8 manland shops.

My responses will hopefully become clear below.

I don't find myself aggressively mulling to fight shops. The main thing I look for in my opening grip is a stable manabase and being able to make lands drops and having answers like explosives or bolt or chewer or welder.

I think we're probably saying the same thing here. I'm assuming you're discussing games 2 and 3, since welder and chewer are sb cards. Those cards alone are not trumps. They are strong answers, but I view CA in this matchup to be different than classic control vs. control card advantage. I guess Card Advantage is a misnomer from my viewpoint and what I meant. Resource Advantage would probably be a better description.

Shops function because of a single card in the deck. Mishra's Workshop. The fact is there is a high correlation between winning the game and having a turn one workshop in the shops matchup. I view a workshop as 3 cards, not one. Therefore, I view wasteland, in the Landstill vs. Shops matchup, as card advantage. My wastelands are usually reserved for workshops.

A stable manabase is important, and I view an island as +1/2 card, where I view a dual as 1/2 a card. The reason is simple - wastelands in Workshop only exist as a way of disrupting mana. They get little mileage out of committing their land drop for the turn - it just works out to being worse for you. Therefore I, also, view islands as card advantage. I actually dislike Library in the workshop mirror in my opening grip - except to bait wastes away from colored sources. Typically, I never stay on a full grip long enough to make it worthwhile.

I would say that the matchup, at least in my experience, comes down to a few key fights - and the scariest card that shops has in my opinion is Crucible of Worlds. That card is of utmost importance for either deck to deploy - while keeping the other off it. I have had games that looked unwinnable from both sides of the table, where a top decked crucible - in the mid-late game - has turned it completely around.

As for the 8-man lands plan in shops decks, while that CAN make for a smoother matchup, well timed wastelands can absolutely destroy the opposition. I've had opponents playing terra nova walk away perplexed when their 8-man lands don't win - and typically that's followed by "you just got lucky, my deck didn't do what I wanted." Remember, those lands require non-workshop mana to turn on - meaning the shop deck has either already developed (lock pieces, and anscillary threats deployed) OR they don't have anything else in their grip (read: you can probably become aggressive).

The resource fight is what this matchup is about, and my poor classification of it as card advantage aside, I think we both are saying the same thing.

[pandaman]

I played unpowered Landstill in the Eternal Masters Vintage event at Next Level Games Dandenong.

I managed 12th, with a 4-2 record, which was good enough to be the highest placed unpowered deck, meaning I scooped the unpowered prize of a DCI Foil Wasteland! (some gentlemenly concessions helped me avoid draws when I had games completely locked out but went to time, thank you to those people!)

Thanks to Adam and Ben at NLG for hosting an amazing weekend of events, if Eternal is your bag and you're in Melbourne then get down to Next Level Games and see them!

As it was an unpowered deck I'm not sure how much use a tournament report would be. Would people be interested in reading one?

[msg67183]

I'd say a report about an unpowered deck would be great, it would give people an insight to the format who are otherwise afraid of the format. It would also give people an idea if they ever wanted to play in a sanctioned vintage event. Could you also provide your list?

[TakeYourTime]

I'd say a report about an unpowered deck would be great, it would give people an insight to the format who are otherwise afraid of the format. It would also give people an idea if they ever wanted to play in a sanctioned vintage event. Could you also provide your list?

Second

[Demagoguery]

Unpowered reports are very important, as while they might not exactly benefit the majority of the player base on these forums, they serve a very valuable function when presented to people outside of these forums by those who post here. A lot of players don't want to play with proxies and don't think they can compete without power, so reports like these can garner a lot of interest in the format.

[pandaman]

This is my list

12) David Brotchie-  U/R Landstill- Highest Unpowered
Lands (25)
3 Island
1 Mountain
3 Volcanic Island
1 Underground Sea
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Flooded Strand
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
4 Mishra’s Factory
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Library of Alexandria

Artifacts (5)
3 Engineered Explosives
2 Crucible of Worlds

Enchantments (4)
4 Standstill

Planeswalkers (4)
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Instants (23)
4 Force of Will
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Misdirection
2 Mental Misstep
4 Mana Drain
2 Red Elemental Blast
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Dismember
1 Echoing Truth

Sideboard (15)
4 Grafdigger’s Cage
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Yixlid Jailer
4 Ingot Chewer
2 Viashino Heretic
2 Firespout

I will have to sit down at home and edit out my report, it's getting a bit fuzzy after a couple of weeks... I'll do my best.  But I'm glad to hear unpowered reports are of interest.

I will be taking unpowered Landstill to the Vintage side event at GP Brisbane this year, trying to make the elimination rounds this time!

[MTGFan]

Using Power in Vintage is like using steroids as a baseball player.

It won't turn a bad player or a bad deck into a top-8 contender, but it will turn an already great player or deck into a tournament winner.

And if you don't use it, it will be hard to compete on the level of everyone who is using it. It's not impossible, but very tough.

[Grand Inquisitor]

Using Power in Vintage is like using steroids as a baseball player.

The only thing good about this statement is that it's a convenient and topical comparison.  It bears no resemblance to the way power cards function in magic.  Carry on.

[TakeYourTime]

Has anyone tried BUG Landstill? It seems like creature decks and shops currently very popular. Green/black brings excellent hate against both of these strategies.

Below is my rough list. Any constructive criticism is highly welcomed. Hopefully I can make it to the next TDG tournament and give it a try.


3 Abrupt Decay
3 Disfigure
2 Pernicious Deed

4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Mental Misstep
2 Spell Pierce

1 Ancestral Recall
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Standstill
1 Demonic Tutor

2 Crucible of Worlds

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
2 Island
3 Polluted Delta
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Library of Alexandria
3 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine


SIDEBOARD:
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Yixlid Jailer
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Trygon Predator
3 Nature's Claim
1 Dimir Charm

[MTGFan]

Disfigure over Dismember?

I'd rather have my maindeck creautre removal not be dead against Lodestone Golem and Kuldotha Forgemaster...