"The Unbroken" U/R Landstill: The Primer

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

Amazing that you found a list that worked against Treasure Cruise Delver. Admittedly, I didn't put too much time into looking outside the box for solutions, but my feeling was that there was just no way to compete against that draw engine.

The inclusion of Balance is awesome. I have never been able to make that card work in Landstill, since I found in the past that it just hoses my lands, but I suppose the 2 x Crucible served you very well.

Great work, and great results ... even with the narrow T8 miss.

Thanks Rich! The balance was incredible vs delver and creature strategies in general. The 4 Red Elemental Blast is definitely crucial in the matchup as well. I may try to squeeze surgical extraction in the sb. But not entirely sure yet. The list felt great all day

Another thing about the delver matchup that I have found very successful is the combination of Crucible/Barbarian Ring and the combination of Academy Ruins/Engineered Explosives. If you get either of these online it's nearly impossible for them to win (especially the ee ruins)...

[vaughnbros]

The 4 Red Elemental Blast is definitely crucial in the matchup as well. I may try to squeeze surgical extraction in the sb. But not entirely sure yet. The list felt great all day

What do you want surgical for?  Just treasure cruise?

Another thing about the delver matchup that I have found very successful is the combination of Crucible/Barbarian Ring and the combination of Academy Ruins/Engineered Explosives. If you get either of these online it's nearly impossible for them to win (especially the ee ruins)...

This sounds legit.

[Hrishi]

Did you ever find yourself in a position where you were forced to Balance but that required you to discard a number of cards down? Did that matter at all? Love your list, Josh!

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

The 4 Red Elemental Blast is definitely crucial in the matchup as well. I may try to squeeze surgical extraction in the sb. But not entirely sure yet. The list felt great all day

What do you want surgical for?  Just treasure cruise?

Another thing about the delver matchup that I have found very successful is the combination of Crucible/Barbarian Ring and the combination of Academy Ruins/Engineered Explosives. If you get either of these online it's nearly impossible for them to win (especially the ee ruins)...

This sounds legit.

yes surgical could be great vs cruise as well as blue matchups in general and splash damage vs dredge also

As far as balance is concerned...most often times I have to sacrifice a few lands and not discard cards. Vs delver I use balance as an "end boss" so we're trading counters and removal spells and such at which point both of our hands are pretty light...it was so awesome throughout the day

[StrongSide]

   I as well played some landstill at Eternal central. Going into round 8 I was 6-1. I was against a big blue deck. He miss side boarded not realizing I was more of a creature style. He than boarded into and oath sideboard out of nowhere. I had him at 5 with factories in extra turns and I was not able to really deploy my stoneforge to close out faster because of the oath on the table. He than thoughtseized my counter spell and time walked. He had one turn to draw something relivant and he Top decked a gifts ungiven which was enough to win from there. I than proceeded to loose the last round because I was on tilt and ended 6-3. Was the first big event I ever went to and my buddy at the last minute offered me power because he wasn't able to go. Was a great day!


        Creature :                  
2   Snapcaster Mage   
1   Vendilion Clique
3   Stoneforge Mystic
1   True-Name Nemesis

           Spells:
3   Swords To Plowshares      
1   Misdirection   
1   Time Walk   
1   Ancestral Recall   
1   Brainstorm         
4   Force of Will   
3   Mental Misstep
2   Mana Drain
1   Mindbreak Trap   
1   Ponder   
1   Flusterstorm   
1   Spell Snare            
   
Other:
4   Standstill   
2   Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Artifact:
1   Engineered Explosives   
1   Sword of Feast and Famine   
1   Batterskull   

Mana:
1   Mox Sapphire   
1   Mox Pearl   
1   Sol Ring   
1   Black Lotus   
1   Library of Alexandria   
4   Flooded Strand   
1   Polluted Delta   
2   Island      
1   Plains            
3   Tundra   
3   Wasteland      
1   Strip Mine      
4   Mishra’s Factory      
   
SideBoard:
1   Flusterstorm
3   Serenity
1   Hurkyl’s Recall
3   Grafdigger’s Cage
4   Rest in Peace
1   Swords To Plowshares
2   Supreme Verdict

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

Damn well good job on the finish. It'd ashamed neither of us broke through to the t8. People would have lost their minds haha...I'm not going anywhere any time soon MUHAHAHAHA

[BlackLotusIsPurple]

Hey Josh, this is Tony. Nice List.

My good results of a Standstill-less Landstill deck (Dig Through Time instead) did not play out as well on Sunday. Afer finishing 9th in the trial I felt like I had to run it again. Lost to three delver decks, which my testing had shown to be a good match up.

It was nice meeting and playing against you.

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

Hey Josh, this is Tony. Nice List.

My good results of a Standstill-less Landstill deck (Dig Through Time instead) did not play out as well on Sunday. Afer finishing 9th in the trial I felt like I had to run it again. Lost to three delver decks, which my testing had shown to be a good match up.

It was nice meeting and playing against you.

Yeah it was nice playing against you and meeting you as well Tony. Your deck certainly looked very interesting from the trial. My deck significantly changed between Saturday and Sunday. Saturday I had a total of 2 Red cards on the 75. So on Sunday I added more duals and swapped alot of things around. Saturdays list was merely an experimental list and it ended up just durdling around too much as I ended up with 3 unintentional draws haha. Good meeting you again and hope to see ya next year or at a vintage event on the east coast

[StrongSide]

I just enjoy how different our decks are but we still seemed to be right there knocking on the door of T8

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

I just enjoy how different our decks are but we still seemed to be right there knocking on the door of T8

yes they are very different...I still think a Standstill based strategy is great in the meta. It's just about figuring out a list to fight the meta. We were both on track (with very different configurations) but barely missed

[boggyb]

Did you try Cruise or Dack? Seems at least 1-2 Cruise would do you very well.

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

Did you try Cruise or Dack? Seems at least 1-2 Cruise would do you very well.

I started testing at 2 cruise, soon went to 1, then none all together. I played the 1 cruise version Saturday in the trial and almost every time I drew it I was wishing it was the 4th Jace...

Dack was closer to deserving a spot but in the end I wanted a card that impacted multiple matchups rather then play dack which keys in on shops. Like if I added Dack I'd have to cut a true removal Spell or a control element and I didn't want to do either. Dack could find its way in the list in a different meta maybe

[vaughnbros]

Did you try Cruise or Dack? Seems at least 1-2 Cruise would do you very well.

I started testing at 2 cruise, soon went to 1, then none all together. I played the 1 cruise version Saturday in the trial and almost every time I drew it I was wishing it was the 4th Jace...

Dack was closer to deserving a spot but in the end I wanted a card that impacted multiple matchups rather then play dack which keys in on shops. Like if I added Dack I'd have to cut a true removal Spell or a control element and I didn't want to do either. Dack could find its way in the list in a different meta maybe

I've had a pretty different experience with both cards.  

Treasure cruise's ability to generate card advantage under spheres, and against the pressure of opposing creatures makes it fill an entirely different role from every other card in the deck.  If you want a comparison of another card it plays similar role to standstill of generating extra cards efficiently, only it excels in almost the complete opposite conditions that standstill does.

As for Dack he's been great for me against any deck that has artifacts, in almost every situation he can steal a mana source then card filter the rest of the way.  Against the mirror and shops he is unbelievably powerful because of his ability to steal and then synergy with a crucible.  

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

Yeah I understand the intrigue with Dack and he can certainly be played in the deck...I've just always beat shops without him and don't expect to be playing the mirror match like...ever? I just like to play cards with implications vs more decks across the board. Likely it's just a personal preference thing...but every time I tested dack I never really cared for him haha

[vaughnbros]

Yeah I understand the intrigue with Dack and he can certainly be played in the deck...I've just always beat shops without him and don't expect to be playing the mirror match like...ever? I just like to play cards with implications vs more decks across the board. Likely it's just a personal preference thing...but every time I tested dack I never really cared for him haha

I feel like I've had to play the mirror quite often lately as more people seem to be picking up the deck.  As for shops, I've been struggling to beat TerraNova, the man lands are just overwhelming, Dack has at least given me a fighting chance in most games against them by stealing crucibles and some of their other larger threats.  Like I said though I do like him in other match ups, and I guess we will just have to go with a personal preference in how we like to play those matches as the difference there.

[StrongSide]

Yeah I understand the intrigue with Dack and he can certainly be played in the deck...I've just always beat shops without him and don't expect to be playing the mirror match like...ever? I just like to play cards with implications vs more decks across the board. Likely it's just a personal preference thing...but every time I tested dack I never really cared for him haha

I feel like I've had to play the mirror quite often lately as more people seem to be picking up the deck.  As for shops, I've been struggling to beat TerraNova, the man lands are just overwhelming, Dack has at least given me a fighting chance in most games against them by stealing crucibles and some of their other larger threats.  Like I said though I do like him in other match ups, and I guess we will just have to go with a personal preference in how we like to play those matches as the difference there.

On paper I do like the synergy with the ability to discard lands and artifacts that are not needed to than get them back through crucible and academy ruin. Also if you are deciding to run the Treasure Cruise it helps fuel a cheaper boat trip. Its very interesting when thinking about this card. I am sadly going to be getting off my U/W list because it is very weak to oath but isn't bad against other matchups but I feel oath may be creeping back up with the rise of delver and with the winner of champs being oath. I like what both of your decks are doing honestly and I think im gonna try to mash all of our decks together and test some things for the next event I will be attending.

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

Yeah I understand the intrigue with Dack and he can certainly be played in the deck...I've just always beat shops without him and don't expect to be playing the mirror match like...ever? I just like to play cards with implications vs more decks across the board. Likely it's just a personal preference thing...but every time I tested dack I never really cared for him haha

I feel like I've had to play the mirror quite often lately as more people seem to be picking up the deck.  As for shops, I've been struggling to beat TerraNova, the man lands are just overwhelming, Dack has at least given me a fighting chance in most games against them by stealing crucibles and some of their other larger threats.  Like I said though I do like him in other match ups, and I guess we will just have to go with a personal preference in how we like to play those matches as the difference there.

If you have Tera Nova proxied up next time I see you Lance, I'll show you how to beat it

Basically you play Standstill and see who plays better under it. Sometimes I will play better under it but often times Tera Nova will (which is fine). If they aren't playing prison cards and just playing lands I wait until the board is developed enough to cast a few end of turn removal spells on there man lands. Then on my turn I cast something like Crucible plus Standstill or Crucible plus Jace and Standstill. Because keep in mind if they are playing under standstill the whole game, then they're not developing their board state. So either way it puts them in a pickle when I decide to stabilize low on life. But sometimes I draw more of my utility lands and play better under standstill...so I play the matchup either way depending on what I draw. Maybe my lists run more utility lands then yours? I'm not sure. I do know I've had much more wins in events vs Tera then I have losses while I'm on Landstill...but we can discuss more in person and I'd test the matchup with you some time

[vaughnbros]

Yeah I understand the intrigue with Dack and he can certainly be played in the deck...I've just always beat shops without him and don't expect to be playing the mirror match like...ever? I just like to play cards with implications vs more decks across the board. Likely it's just a personal preference thing...but every time I tested dack I never really cared for him haha

I feel like I've had to play the mirror quite often lately as more people seem to be picking up the deck.  As for shops, I've been struggling to beat TerraNova, the man lands are just overwhelming, Dack has at least given me a fighting chance in most games against them by stealing crucibles and some of their other larger threats.  Like I said though I do like him in other match ups, and I guess we will just have to go with a personal preference in how we like to play those matches as the difference there.

If you have Tera Nova proxied up next time I see you Lance, I'll show you how to beat it

Basically you play Standstill and see who plays better under it. Sometimes I will play better under it but often times Tera Nova will (which is fine). If they aren't playing prison cards and just playing lands I wait until the board is developed enough to cast a few end of turn removal spells on there man lands. Then on my turn I cast something like Crucible plus Standstill or Crucible plus Jace and Standstill. Because keep in mind if they are playing under standstill the whole game, then they're not developing their board state. So either way it puts them in a pickle when I decide to stabilize low on life. But sometimes I draw more of my utility lands and play better under standstill...so I play the matchup either way depending on what I draw. Maybe my lists run more utility lands then yours? I'm not sure. I do know I've had much more wins in events vs Tera then I have losses while I'm on Landstill...but we can discuss more in person and I'd test the matchup with you some time

I appreciate the advice on the MU, and I'll probably take you up on your offer to test it.

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

Cool well I'll be at TDG November 22nd if you are headed there!

[vaughnbros]

Cool well I'll be at TDG November 22nd if you are headed there!

Yeh I should be there.  No tests or projects due for me the week after.

[ssasala]

I see that you might be switching from a U/W build to a U/R build. Do you have a sample deck list? What red cards provide a better answer to oath decks that white does not have for the board or main deck?  Thanks.

[vaughnbros]

I see that you might be switching from a U/W build to a U/R build. Do you have a sample deck list? What red cards provide a better answer to oath decks that white does not have for the board or main deck?  Thanks.

The oath match up is better more because of what you lose rather than what you gain.  UR builds do not run any creatures, whereas UW relies on the stoneforge package for some match ups.

[StrongSide]

I see that you might be switching from a U/W build to a U/R build. Do you have a sample deck list? What red cards provide a better answer to oath decks that white does not have for the board or main deck?  Thanks.

The oath match up is better more because of what you lose rather than what you gain.  UR builds do not run any creatures, whereas UW relies on the stoneforge package for some match ups.

Exactly right. Stoneforge is great in most matchups but certain matchups they don't even care. I just jammed a list last night against a shops player for a littler while and it was actually enjoyable.

[TakeYourTime]

Counters:
4 Mental Misstep
4 Force of Will
2 Mindbreak Trap

How do you feel like the deck performs with such few permission cards?

[vaughnbros]

Counters:
4 Mental Misstep
4 Force of Will
2 Mindbreak Trap

How do you feel like the deck performs with such few permission cards?

10 permission spells doesn't really feel low to me, but there is so much removal and card draw that it balances out.  Drain just feels too slow in today's meta, and doesn't synergize well with the rest of the deck.

[StrongSide]

Counters:
4 Mental Misstep
4 Force of Will
2 Mindbreak Trap

How do you feel like the deck performs with such few permission cards?

10 permission spells doesn't really feel low to me, but there is so much removal and card draw that it balances out.  Drain just feels too slow in today's meta, and doesn't synergize well with the rest of the deck.

I kind of agree with this statement but I think some non 0 number of drain's wouldn't hurt. Currently I am running 2 in my deck as just a way to start a counter fight so mind break trap is always at a premium. I also love living the dream of draining a treasure cruise and than using the mana to cast my own treasure cruise. I would agree with you though if you are running more removal spells it could cancel out the need for the drains. I personally think its a nice catch all though.

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

I actually love the 4 drains in my list as you said it's a nice catch all. I haven't been impressed with Trap in quite a long time. So I switched all of my counters around...my list had 4 Force 4 Drain 4 Misstep 4 Reb in the 75 and it's been great...I can get behind 2 or 3 drain but zero seems wrong IMO

Against workshops I often find myself answering their first threat or clearing spheres with EE...at which point drain is active and draining into Jace or Crucible is a regular play in my list vs shops...

[StrongSide]

See I have been very impressed by the MBT honestly. I won a few games by having a counterspell that can get 2 for 1's. In round 4 I actually lived the dream haha. I was on the play went land mox pass. My opponent went land mox, lotus...he than cracked lotus for jace I responded with recall. He responded with misstep than responded with MBT countering the misstep and the jace he than went force and I tapped my mox which was a saph for flusterstorm and countered his force he had I think no cards left in hand and I never used my force that I had from the start. Now I cant see that happening often but the blowout potential I love. So right now I am very biased towards MBT that may change but I will have to see. I also like it against shops deck when they are on the play....the ability to have them cast 3 spells and you get to use MBT to counter the most threatening one is great.

on topic tho. A non zero number of drains I will stay on board with. If I was to move into the full 4 drains I would need to get two basic islands into my deck. Right now im just running a single one

[vaughnbros]

Drain is not really a card I miss, but I can see why other people still like it.  It doesnt set up turn 2 standstill, the decks mana base doesn't always have access to UU, and there aren't a ton of great things to do with the extra mana.

I was down on it for a while, but mindbreak trap has been excellent for me lately.  Ending counter wars regularly, providing an answer outside of Force for a quick start, and it works through cavern.

[pandaman]

I wanted to bump this thread to mention the two excellent performances of Landstill decks at the recent NYSE Open III:

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=17522&iddeck=131846

Some really interesting things in those lists. Stuff cycling under Standstill especially, which we haven't seen for a long time. Also, Mentor?! I'm looking forward to testing it.