Dragon Shield

[birds of paradise]

I just bought some dragon shield sleeves that ive heard so much good about. They do shuffle like a dream, however, they do seems do make the cards warp. Will this get over by time, or is this a problem someone else has? I've got the purple one if that matters.

[aahz]

My experience has been that what you are observing is typical and they are fine once you "break them in". They should flatten out once you have a deck in them for bit. You could always sleeve up a Legacy deck in them first and only put the Power in once they're flat.

[The Atog Lord]

This is a great question. For years, I have avoided Dragon Shields because they appear to make my cards bend. And I have no desire to have sleeves that bend my cards. The whole point of sleeves is to keep cards in good shape!

For a long time, I have been very happy with the Ultra Pro Mox Diamond sleeves. I double sleeve my decks, and the Mox Diamond sleeves have been ideal. They last a long time, they don't show flip cards at all, they don't easily get marked or bent, and they shuffle very well. Sadly, I am now reaching the end of my stockpile of these excellent sleeves. I discovered that they are no longer in production. Worse yet, newer Ultra Pro sleeves are smaller than the older ones, meaning that they are useless for double sleeving. It was disappointing to learn.

So, to continue this thread, has anyone found an ideal sleeve to use for double-sleeving cards? Preferably sleeves that are somewhat wide, so it is easy to move perfect-fitted cards into and out of the sleeves. I don't want to spend an hour sleeving up a deck.

[Meddling Mike]

So, to continue this thread, has anyone found an ideal sleeve to use for double-sleeving cards? Preferably sleeves that are somewhat wide, so it is easy to move perfect-fitted cards into and out of the sleeves. I don't want to spend an hour sleeving up a deck.

Did you not like the fit when we experimented with the KMC Matte sleeves? It seems like since the Perfect fit sleeves are from KMC their sleeves should be designed to be compatible with one another.

From the Product description on SCG:

Description:
Clear Sleeves to fit full sized cards and still fit into full sized colored sleeves
Similar to soft sleeves ("penny sleeves") only narrower and shorter to fit comfortably in KMC colored sleeves

[Yare]

KMC sleeves are pretty much the bomb. Years ago I liked Ultra Pro, but their sleeves seem terrible to me now. KMC, on the other hand, has a great feel and really seem to last a long time.

Regarding double sleeving, putting the KMC perfect size/fit/whatever sleeves has worked well for me with the KMC sleeves.

[bactgudz]

I use KMC matte with the perfect fits.  They wear and shuffle incredibly well and ive never experienced the dragon-shield-bending with them. As to double-sided cards, the dark blue ones at least are completely opaque (can't speak for the others).  Only complaint is that about 1-4 per pack of 80 sometimes have a dimple on them (at least where I source them from) so are marked in the strictest sense, but I just end up using those for casual decks or in trade binders.

You can get them and perfect fits for about 50% of most places retail if you buy by the box or case.  Just google "kmc perfect fit distributor" the first hit ships to residential.

[A.-1.]

I just bought some dragon shield sleeves that ive heard so much good about. They do shuffle like a dream, however, they do seems do make the cards warp. Will this get over by time, or is this a problem someone else has? I've got the purple one if that matters.

Who had something nice to say about Dragon Shield? I'd recommend anything else really. I have nothing but Dragon Shield because I'm cheap, I really abuse my cards when shuffling, and I don't own power. And half of the sleeves were given to me. If you're local store doesn't carry anything else, you should order some online. It's not worth the few extra bucks you might save to use low-quality Dragon Shield.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

I use KMC matte with the perfect fits.  They wear and shuffle incredibly well and ive never experienced the dragon-shield-bending with them. As to double-sided cards, the dark blue ones at least are completely opaque (can't speak for the others).  Only complaint is that about 1-4 per pack of 80 sometimes have a dimple on them (at least where I source them from) so are marked in the strictest sense, but I just end up using those for casual decks or in trade binders.

You can get them and perfect fits for about 50% of most places retail if you buy by the box or case.  Just google "kmc perfect fit distributor" the first hit ships to residential.

I can't get kmc perfect fits to fit in a kmc sleeve to save my soul. The card always pops out of the perfect fit.

[bactgudz]

I use KMC matte with the perfect fits.  They wear and shuffle incredibly well and ive never experienced the dragon-shield-bending with them. As to double-sided cards, the dark blue ones at least are completely opaque (can't speak for the others).  Only complaint is that about 1-4 per pack of 80 sometimes have a dimple on them (at least where I source them from) so are marked in the strictest sense, but I just end up using those for casual decks or in trade binders.

You can get them and perfect fits for about 50% of most places retail if you buy by the box or case.  Just google "kmc perfect fit distributor" the first hit ships to residential.

I can't get kmc perfect fits to fit in a kmc sleeve to save my soul. The card always pops out of the perfect fit.

Wierd, ive never not been able to get them in...sometimes it's a snugger fit than others, cause the perfect fits themselves vary in width a tad.  When that happens ive found that the following usually works fine:
-starting with the outer sleeve open wide
-angling one corner of the perfect fit in and then rotating the other corner in
-then applying light pressure to the sides the outer sleeve to keep it wide while i slide in the perfect fit.

maybe you just have a batch of wide perfect fits...or are you trying to put a right-side up perfect fit into an outer sleeve?  The card should go upside-down in the perfect fit, then right-side up into the outer sleeve. This both protects the card better from spills and prevents the card from sliding out of the perfect fit while you place it in the outer sleeve.

[Bill Copes]

I've been rocking these things over a set of cheapo zebra sleeves for the past few months.  By far, these are the most durable, wear resistant things I've used to date.  One set of 60 lasts through 2 months of tournaments, play-testing and nightly coffee-table goldishing.  I know everyone and their mother prefers perfect fits inside regular sleeves, to protect the card, but I've been quite happy with the reverse.

[Prospero]

I love the look and feel of a freshly sleeved Vintage deck, so I generally sleeve more often than most people.  I'd echo Yare's comments about KMC's, both for regular and perfect fit sleeves. 

I haven't had problems with perfect fits inside my sleeves, but I have heard of others who have.  I'll generally take a card, sleeve it with the perfect fit, open the regular sleeve, getting just the bottom of the card in, then use a finger to guide the card down into the sleeve.  If you do it this way you probably won't have issues with the card coming out of the perfect fit, so long as the sleeves are meant for perfect fits to be used.

[Pokey]

Why is everyone hating on dragonshields?  I always double sleeve my decks with KMC perfect fit and dragonshields.

[mikekilljoy]

I just avoid Drgaon Shield because they are just too expensive.

[Klep]

I'm going to echo the recommendation for KMCs.

[Dr. Sylvan]

I can't get kmc perfect fits to fit in a kmc sleeve to save my soul. The card always pops out of the perfect fit.

I've recently had exactly this problem. I have my whole cube in perfect fits inside KMC silver sleeves, but recently had trouble with a couple packages of replacement outer sleeves. The perfect fits just didn't fit inside them, disappointing since they're from the same company. I've been debating switching brands as my current supply of outer sleeves wears out.

Ultra Pro has given me some pretty bad experiences---the Magic-branded sleeves used to be excellent, as Rich describes, but the more recent ones have a flimsy backing that peels very quickly (this happened to two of the Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas sleeves within the first round I used them!). The Ultra Pro pro-matte sleeves have worked okay for me, but I haven't used them in combination with perfect fits.

I've heard mostly positive things about Dragon Shields, so they're at the top of my list to try.

[Norm4eva]

I love the look and feel of a freshly sleeved Vintage deck, so I generally sleeve more often than most people.

Gahh, you like that?  Anytime I throw new sleeves on my cards, I've got to break that shit in.  I hate the slippy-slidey feeling of a deck that feels like all the air is still trapped between cards/sleeves/whatever.  New sleeves are always a little 'puffy', or whatever you call it.  Can't stand that feeling heh.  I go to shuffle and my deck goes (*&#(*&$#$)#$

Maybe I should be paying more attention to the sleeves I buy... but then again, I've never *not* experienced this, except maybe back in the day when all my sleeves were gifted to me by friends (so of course they were nearly blown out).

[H]

I have never found KMC ones that really consistently fit the Perfect Fits in them, with the exception of the Super Orange ones which I bout about 1500 of to fit my Cube in.  All the KMC matte packages I have gotten, have never fit with Perfect Fits at all.

I converted to Dragon Sleeves now, because they are the only ones which consistently have no issue with Perfect Fits.  I only use those and my 10+ year old Ultra-Pro sleeves (the matte ones, which are literally the greatest sleeves ever made) now, since there are never issues with the fit on those.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

I've got a KMC sleeved cube.
I tried every batch to see if they could fit my perfect fitted vintage deck before I used them as cube sleeves, 0% success rate.

I'm pretty sure that the curling with dragon shields has a great deal to do with how you store your cards/decks. I've had it happen, like once with dragon shields since 06' or 07'. However, It's never happened with KMC's.

My issue with the dragon shields is that they're not very consistent from batch to batch.

[A.-1.]

My issue with the dragon shields is that they're not very consistent from batch to batch.

Seconded.

In my experiences, you cannot mix and match Dragon Shields of the same color. I've tried Green and Black. In both instances it was obvious which sleeve came from which pack. The difference in height was that noticeable.

[Pokey]

My issue with the dragon shields is that they're not very consistent from batch to batch.

Seconded.

In my experiences, you cannot mix and match Dragon Shields of the same color. I've tried Green and Black. In both instances it was obvious which sleeve came from which pack. The difference in height was that noticeable.

I admit this does happen alot, but I don't mind it that much, since I rather like the way they feel/shuffle.

[bactgudz]

I am completely perplexed by the reports of the perfect fits not working in the KMCs I literally have 1681 cards currently double-sleeve with the perfect sizes and the KMC dark blue mattes.

[aahz]

I am completely perplexed by the reports of the perfect fits not working in the KMCs I literally have 1681 cards currently double-sleeve with the perfect sizes and the KMC dark blue mattes.

I've had some KMCs work with the perfect fits and other KMCs not work. I think there might be a difference between the matte and non-matte, but I don't have enough data to support that conclusively.

[AmbivalentDuck]

My experience is primarily with black Ultra Pros, Max Pros, and pink Dragon Shields with KMC perfect fit inner sleeves.  My various decks and cube get used 2-3 times a week (each).  At about 4 months post-sleeving, I'm noticing that the pink Dragon Shields are starting to leave "dirt" on each other when shuffled.  On inspection, this appears to be plastic material pilling up from friction with other sleeves.  Additionally, they're cut more than a bit unevenly.  It seems that a "pocket" gets made by heat-annealing a sheet of pink plastic to a sheet of clear plastic.  Sometimes this gets cut perfectly in the center, sometimes not.  What's clear is that in a given pack, each pair of sleeves comes from the same cutting specs.  So, you get two sizes of sleeves per pack and potentially MANY per box.

The Max Pros are used primarily for EDH decks and have held up better than the Dragon Shields.  These show almost no play wear at all, even the ones I've had for 2-3 years.

The black Ultra Pros get used for drafting.  As long experience with the brand has shown me (stupidly buying them since 1998), the back scratches and marks in the first few nights while the pilling starts a few weeks in.

[Ten-Ten]

the only sleeves i have used to double sleeve have been the ones that came with the Onlsaught deck boxes from way back. Penny sleeves fit perfect in 'em.

still got 'em too. shows little wear after 10 years. Unlike anything I have seen before or since then.

[Ruboonia]

Does anyone have any experience with the KMC metallic blue deck protectors? I'm thinking about buying a bunch of those and some KMC perfect fits for my decks.

Specific questions:
1. Do they fit with the perfect fits?
2. Can you see through the METALLIC KMC sleeves? I would hate to buy them for all of my decks only to find out that I can play Delver of Secrets and other flip cards. This is an important issue. I do have some of the KMC Super Orange sleeves and you can see through them. I would like to avoid that.

Thanks.

[Onslaught]

Metallic Blue sleeves are opaque.

What I'd like to know is why it is so difficult to make an opaque white sleeve. I've been looking for some for like 5 years now.

[Ruboonia]

Metallic Blue sleeves are opaque.

What I'd like to know is why it is so difficult to make an opaque white sleeve. I've been looking for some for like 5 years now.

Are they metallic on the front or the back? I assume clear in the front, shiny back?

[Onslaught]

Metallic on the back, normal clear on the front

[Delha]

What I'd like to know is why it is so difficult to make an opaque white sleeve. I've been looking for some for like 5 years now.

FWIW, a buddy of mine found an used a set very very briefly. The ended up getting scuffed so quickly that he had to swap out halfway through his first tournament in them. Unsurprisingly, he never went back.

[boggyb]

Well, just bought some KMC black mattes and perfect fits off trollandtoad (they just got some more in stock) and couldn't be happier -- they fit and shuffle like a dream. Took some practice getting the perfect fits in there without destroying the cards and/or sleeves . Highly recommended.