[m13] Talrand, Sky Summoner

[bluemage55]

What I like about this card is the ability to turn irrelevant junk into real threats.  Flusterstorm and Misstep become 2/2 drakes against MUD, artifact hate becomes 2/2 tokens against control and fish.  The dead cards that you're forced to run to survive the metagame is no longer a serious issue..

Except you'd need to counter target your own spells/artifacts to cast them...

[vaughnbros]

What I like about this card is the ability to turn irrelevant junk into real threats.  Flusterstorm and Misstep become 2/2 drakes against MUD, artifact hate becomes 2/2 tokens against control and fish.  The dead cards that you're forced to run to survive the metagame is no longer a serious issue..

Along this same line ramming spells into chalice of the void for 2/2 fliers is also nice.

[Ufactor]

With the aforementioned in mind, I'm testing a reverse transformation sideboard, as it were. I still believe that Talrand gets around Null Rod, Stony Silence, Mental Misstep, Flusterstorm, and has the ability to turn shit to gold.  Does it get around Phyrexian Metamorph or Swords to Plowshares??  No, but you obviously make a bunch of drake tokens before the stack resolves.


3 Talrand, Sky Summoner

4 Dark Ritual
4 Force of Will
4 Night's Whisper

1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Chain of Vapor
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Rebuild
1 Tendrils of Agony

Ancestral Recall
Brainstorm
Demonic Tutor
Gifts Ungiven
Imperial Seal
Memory Jar
Merchant Scroll
Mind's Desire
Mystical Tutor
Necropotence
Ponder
Time Walk
Timetwister
Tinker
Vampiric Tutor
Yawgmoth's Bargain
Yawgmoth's Will

Black Lotus
Lotus Petal
Mana Crypt
Mana Vault
Mox Emerald
Mox Jet
Mox Pearl
Mox Ruby
Mox Sapphire
Sol Ring
Tolarian Academy

1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Island
4 Polluted Delta
3 Swamp
1 Underground Sea

SB: 4 Duress
SB: 1 Flusterstorm
SB: 2 Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 1 Ravenous Trap
SB: 2 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 Yixlid Jailer

[Lurker101]

It seems like it has potential in storm decks as a win con that avoids Flusterstorm and Mindbreak Trap.  It might be best as a one of though with maybe an extra copy in the SB.

[Grand Inquisitor]

Everyone is hinting at the problem from the wrong side.  Ie, they're coming up with scenarios where it's like: "you do this stuff and then this happens and worst case..."

What I've found is that the card is often live and creates the small flying army you want, even though it usually doesn't stick around much (stp, bolt or reb).

However, this is a 4cc card that is filling your 'bomb' slot.  In other words, it's competing with pretty good cards like JTMS, Tendrils or draw spells.  In the current meta, but in Vintage in general, attrition means that whatever ends up resolving/sticking, it needs to create a pretty big impact for you to achieve victory.  Unless people are envisioning this in a tempo deck as an alternative to JTMS, I have yet to see (1) a shell that really leverages what this offers or (2) that this can compete with the existing crop of high cc game enders.

I like the card, it just hasn't shown the quality it needs to earn a slot.

[vaughnbros]

However, this is a 4cc card that is filling your 'bomb' slot.  In other words, it's competing with pretty good cards like JTMS, Tendrils or draw spells.  In the current meta, but in Vintage in general, attrition means that whatever ends up resolving/sticking, it needs to create a pretty big impact for you to achieve victory.  Unless people are envisioning this in a tempo deck as an alternative to JTMS, I have yet to see (1) a shell that really leverages what this offers or (2) that this can compete with the existing crop of high cc game enders.

I like the card, it just hasn't shown the quality it needs to earn a slot.

There are plenty of decks running more than just Jace at the 4+ slot and frankly I'm tired of that being an argument against cards. 

You haven't seen a proven shell?  The card has been legal for what 1 weekend so far?  Do you really expect everyone to disclose their deck lists on TMD?

This card is just as good if not better than the other two major storm spells, empty the warrens and tendrils.  Is it more suspectible to counter spells and removal of course, but it's also more versatile.  Untapping with this out is almost always good game.  After Untapping in a proper list you should be able to either chain draw spells or turn your counter magic into tempo plays.  It also still retains the ability to be just as good as empty the warrens on a big turn.  The fact that this is blue is just icing on the cake as it pitches to force and the colored mana in its cost is almost always available.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

Everyone is hinting at the problem from the wrong side.  Ie, they're coming up with scenarios where it's like: "you do this stuff and then this happens and worst case..."

What I've found is that the card is often live and creates the small flying army you want, even though it usually doesn't stick around much (stp, bolt or reb).

However, this is a 4cc card that is filling your 'bomb' slot.  In other words, it's competing with pretty good cards like JTMS, Tendrils or draw spells.  In the current meta, but in Vintage in general, attrition means that whatever ends up resolving/sticking, it needs to create a pretty big impact for you to achieve victory.  Unless people are envisioning this in a tempo deck as an alternative to JTMS, I have yet to see (1) a shell that really leverages what this offers or (2) that this can compete with the existing crop of high cc game enders.

I like the card, it just hasn't shown the quality it needs to earn a slot.

What you do with this card is run it in the tendrils slot of gush decks. If it gets in play and stays, you win. If it gets "answered", you have 4-6 flying power. if you cast this and it does nothing, you're doing it wrong.

[Grand Inquisitor]

There are plenty of decks running more than just Jace at the 4+ slot and frankly I'm tired of that being an argument against cards.

Frankly I'm tired of unsupported claims.

Besides JTMS (which is far and away the most common in the sample) and Tendrils and Gifts Ungiven (which I've already covered) the 4cc slots in the most recent T8s I've looked at are Sower of Temptation and Auriok Salvagers.  Granted Sower is a pretty good comp for Talrand, all of the rest of the cards effectively win the game immediately and often trump other common win conditions (most notably BSC).

So what 4cc bombs, completely unknown to the rest of us, are you referring to?

What you do with this card is run it in the tendrils slot of gush decks.

I'm with you, and this is the first and most common thing I've tested.  It being blue is a big bonus.  My problem is that compared with other storm cards, I ahve trouble with all the effects coming afterwards.  Ie, I often find that by the time I've landed Talrand, I'm usually out of gas and can't leverage it well.

[vaughnbros]

There are plenty of decks running more than just Jace at the 4+ slot and frankly I'm tired of that being an argument against cards.

Frankly I'm tired of unsupported claims.

Besides JTMS (which is far and away the most common in the sample) and Tendrils and Gifts Ungiven (which I've already covered) the 4cc slots in the most recent T8s I've looked at are Sower of Temptation and Auriok Salvagers.  Granted Sower is a pretty good comp for Talrand, all of the rest of the cards effectively win the game immediately and often trump other common win conditions (most notably BSC).

So what 4cc bombs, completely unknown to the rest of us, are you referring to?

Unsupported? So you just want me to list 4+ drops that are playable, tendrils, tezz, gifts, empty, salvagers, bargain, mind's desire, ect...  I wasnt referring to unknown ones which is why I didnt list any.  I think in a storm list this can be a better card than all of them.

What you do with this card is run it in the tendrils slot of gush decks.

I'm with you, and this is the first and most common thing I've tested.  It being blue is a big bonus.  My problem is that compared with other storm cards, I ahve trouble with all the effects coming afterwards.  Ie, I often find that by the time I've landed Talrand, I'm usually out of gas and can't leverage it well.

It plays much differently than the other storm cards.  If you dont change the way you are playing the deck of course your going to find it doesnt hit the table until its too late.  It took me a few gold fished games to even be comfortable with that aspect of Talrand.  I'm also pretty certain 3 is the optimal number for this guy since he needs to be on the table first and is easier to answer.

[Grand Inquisitor]

In other words, it's competing with pretty good cards like JTMS, Tendrils or draw spells.

4+ drops that are playable, tendrils, tezz, gifts, empty, salvagers, bargain, mind's desire, ect

Sorry if my quote above wasn't more clear.  What I meant by 'draw spells' is meant to cover blue/black bombs like JTMS, Gifts, FoF, etc.  I think Mind's Desire and Yawgmoth's Bargain are entirely different cards since they cost more, pretty much require a ritual approach and have an effect that is far greater than the other cards listed.  You can lump them in if you want, but I don't consider them comps.

Btw, Tezz Bolas is a good call, and something I failed to consider here.

FWIW, my testing also started with 3x Talrand (for the reason you mentioned) and I found it worked best (but not well) in a controlling Gushbond list.

At the end of the day, it comes down to the deck they're in (and, as you said, the play style).  If play testing has yielded an approach that you're happy with, great.  What does it look like?

If you don't want to share it until after you T8, fine.  Just don't post here.  This fora is for sharing information on stuff you do want to talk about. Until then, all your hand waving is just that.

[vaughnbros]

At the end of the day, it comes down to the deck they're in (and, as you said, the play style).  If play testing has yielded an approach that you're happy with, great.  What does it look like?

I dont have a list that I am completely happy with.  I have been playing with a build using intuition ak engine, but it has a lower percentage against Martello shops than I am comfortable with right now.  That may just be a result of my sideboard hate choices and the way Im playing the match up though.  I'm not really one to be secretive about what I'm playing I just didn't want to spam this forum with deck lists here's the list Ive been using if you want it:

1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
1 Misty Rainforest
3 Island
1 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
4 Accumulated Knowledge
3 Intuition
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Merchant Scroll
2 Hurkyl's Recall
4 Force of Will
1 Library of Alexandria
4 Mana Drain
3 Talrand, Sky Summoner
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
3 Underground Sea
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
3 Dark Ritual
1 Yawgmoth's Will
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Swamp
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Brainstorm
1 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 1 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Dismember
SB: 4 Energy Flux
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 4 Ravenous Trap

It runs very consistently due to the high number of copies of most of the cards and the amount of card draw/tutors.  Martello shops ability to kill Talrand, sphere off tendrils, and revoker jace makes it a very difficult match up though.  Currently I have 4 energy flux in the board and 2 hurkyls main deck although I'm not sold those are the best options to beat it.

[Grand Inquisitor]

intuition ak engine

I'm a big fan of that engine right now, but I don't like it in this configuration.

(1) That engine can produce huge turns with EOT draw, and then untap for a big yawg-tendrils turn.  Talrand seems like it wants to win smaller with brokeness sometimes, but more often attrition and then a smaller time walk win with counter-defense.
(2) Talrand is still pretty resource intensive and needs you to set up your hand/play around him.  I wouldn't want to mix that with other cards like Tendrils.
(3) You have eight 4drops along with four 3drops, which is pretty top heavy, even with rituals.

shops

I found that rituals are a lost cause vs. them unless you run a lot of rebuild effects.  Also, I've found Energy Flux is too hard to play against spheres and it often doesn't stop the bleeding from their beaters.

Where I find Talrand excelled is with a attrition control style setup, especially against weenie tempo decks where the 2/2s were significant.

[vaughnbros]

intuition ak engine

I'm a big fan of that engine right now, but I don't like it in this configuration.

(1) That engine can produce huge turns with EOT draw, and then untap for a big yawg-tendrils turn.  Talrand seems like it wants to win smaller with brokeness sometimes, but more often attrition and then a smaller time walk win with counter-defense.
(2) Talrand is still pretty resource intensive and needs you to set up your hand/play around him.  I wouldn't want to mix that with other cards like Tendrils.
(3) You have eight 4drops along with four 3drops, which is pretty top heavy, even with rituals.

1. The point here is that you dont need to resolve anything or bounce a cage ect. when you have talrand just casting spells eot is enough to win the game.
2. I initially wasnt playing tendrils but I found being able to tutor tendrils on big turns is really good especially against decks like oath where I cant just lay talrand out there.
3. The curve is high, but with the high number of basics, 4 drains, and 3 rituals I havent had any serious problems with it

shops

I found that rituals are a lost cause vs. them unless you run a lot of rebuild effects.  Also, I've found Energy Flux is too hard to play against spheres and it often doesn't stop the bleeding from their beaters.

Where I find Talrand excelled is with a attrition control style setup, especially against weenie tempo decks where the 2/2s were significant.

Because of Talrand I actually havent had a problem with espresso shops, probably because they rely on the permanent war and he can win that.  Ill try the idea of more rebuild instead of flux.

It seems important to me for Talrand to be ran with a draw engine thats not bob.  Im not familiar with your terminology what kind of cards make you an attrition control setup?

[Grand Inquisitor]

Im not familiar with your terminology what kind of cards make you an attrition control setup?

I'm referring to the number of nature of cards that control the stack.

Eg, whereas you've got nine cards:

4 FoW
4 Mana Drain
1 Mindbreak Trap

My list runs much more and much cheaper control:

4 FoW
3 Mana Drain
2 Misdirection
2 Mental Misstep
2 Flusterstorm
1 Spell Snare
1 Spell Pierce

I also run snapcaster and gush/preordain, so while I don't have big game-swinging spells, I'm trying to keep the potential energy of the game low so that I can force Talrand onto the board and then grind out a win in 2-3 turns.

[Grand Inquisitor]

when you have talrand just casting spells eot is enough to win

Sorry I should follow up on this too.  Basically I expect that you do draw cards pretty well and can use those to slow-roll with Talrand.  However, you're drawing into other win conditions.  So I would guess (1) You don't draw enough control to protect Talrand, (2) you don't draw enough control to stop your opponent from combo-ing you and/or (3) you draw parts of win conditions (JTMS, Talrand, Tendrils) that don't reinforce each other, and so become dead draws.

...again, just speculating here.  I haven't tested your list yet.

[vaughnbros]

when you have talrand just casting spells eot is enough to win

Sorry I should follow up on this too.  Basically I expect that you do draw cards pretty well and can use those to slow-roll with Talrand.  However, you're drawing into other win conditions.  So I would guess (1) You don't draw enough control to protect Talrand, (2) you don't draw enough control to stop your opponent from combo-ing you and/or (3) you draw parts of win conditions (JTMS, Talrand, Tendrils) that don't reinforce each other, and so become dead draws.

...again, just speculating here.  I haven't tested your list yet.

Didnt you just say earlier in this about making unsupported claims? The deck is essentially casting ancestral recall 3 times before it yawg wills. 

Is case (1) going to happen sometimes? sure but you have more than likely drawn another talrand or win con. 
Is (2) going to happen sometimes? If it didnt id have nearly a 100% win percentage against blue decks. 
And case (3) is not really valid the 3 cards do support each other.  Jace can get rid of cards I dont need and find pieces for tendrils or Talrand to go crazy.  Talrand protects jace when hes on the table by providing chump blockers and pressure.  And all the pieces to tendrils combo are in fact instants or sorceries so they can generate tokens.

Im not familiar with your terminology what kind of cards make you an attrition control setup?

I also run snapcaster and gush/preordain, so while I don't have big game-swinging spells, I'm trying to keep the potential energy of the game low so that I can force Talrand onto the board and then grind out a win in 2-3 turns

We are approaching it in two different directions.  Your deck sounds like it needs to resolve and protect talrand.  Whereas my list can easily win without even casting him.  Hence I dont really need such a heavy counter package to protect him because him getting countered or killed just opens up the door for a different win con in my deck.  I personally am not a fan of heavy counter packages they can cause pretty clunky hands where all you do is draw go for a while and all of a sudden they drop something that your non drain non fow cant hit.

[Grand Inquisitor]

Didnt you just say earlier in this about making unsupported claims?

Apples, oranges.  Earlier we were talking about cards people have played in T8 decks.  Discussion about new cards and new deck lists is supposed to be unsupported and I made that clear in my post as well.

The deck is essentially casting ancestral recall 3 times before it yawg wills.

I'm going to hazard a guess that no one (in the US at least) has cast AK more than me in the last 6 months.  I've been almost exclusively testing AK control shells.  I bring this up because even without playing your list, I have a pretty good feel for how it runs.  I also have a good idea of the trade-off for card choices outside of the core cards.

These 'sometimes' cases matter and add up fast, especially in this environment when the answers (fluster, MMisstep, REB) are so efficient.

(3) is not really valid the 3 cards do support each other

The blocking is a good point and I considered JTMS as well with Talrand.  I eventually decided against it since I didn't want that many 4drops.

Tendrils has no synergy with Talrand and JTMS is an extremely expensive way to supplement the storm kill.

We are approaching it in two different directions.  Your deck sounds like it needs to resolve and protect talrand.  Whereas my list can easily win without even casting him.

You're right.  My conceit is that you can't maintain three different, largely unsynergistic, resource-intensive win conditions in this metagame.  I've chosen to build directly to benefit Talrand.

[vaughnbros]

Didnt you just say earlier in this about making unsupported claims?

Apples, oranges.  Earlier we were talking about cards people have played in T8 decks.  Discussion about new cards and new deck lists is supposed to be unsupported and I made that clear in my post as well.

I dont see a major distinction.  Results are only one way to support something.

The deck is essentially casting ancestral recall 3 times before it yawg wills.

I'm going to hazard a guess that no one (in the US at least) has cast AK more than me in the last 6 months.  I've been almost exclusively testing AK control shells.  I bring this up because even without playing your list, I have a pretty good feel for how it runs.  I also have a good idea of the trade-off for card choices outside of the core cards.

These 'sometimes' cases matter and add up fast, especially in this environment when the answers (fluster, MMisstep, REB) are so efficient.

Outside what core cards? This engine apparently has a consensus on what can and cant be played around it

Flusterstorm isnt a hard counter, misstep hardly hits my deck, and how often are you really seeing reb played outside of landstill? And im not really sure what counter magic has to do with your 3 points.

(3) is not really valid the 3 cards do support each other

The blocking is a good point and I considered JTMS as well with Talrand.  I eventually decided against it since I didn't want that many 4drops.

Tendrils has no synergy with Talrand and JTMS is an extremely expensive way to supplement the storm kill.

We are approaching it in two different directions.  Your deck sounds like it needs to resolve and protect talrand.  Whereas my list can easily win without even casting him.

You're right.  My conceit is that you can't maintain three different, largely unsynergistic, resource-intensive win conditions in this metagame.  I've chosen to build directly to benefit Talrand.

So Talrand blocking for Jace is a good point, but because you dont like it its unsynergistic? The pieces that go with tendrils work just as well with Talrand, but thats unsynergistic.  And where in the world is Jace bad in a storm list? If we are going by results based thinking I think this is a pretty indisputable combination. 

On top of all this what metagame are you playing in that 4 drops are too resource intensive? (rhetorical) This is a format with 3 or more jace in every blue deck and a format with a deck that has hard casted Griselbrand as a line of play.  I think a deck thats running effectively 31 mana sources can play some 4 drops.

[serracollector]

If I may throw my 2 cents in as the originator of this thread, I too have played quite a few versions, and seen/played vs. quite a few versions of Talrand Decks.

In my (I'll admit limited) testing with this card, I have found the AK engine to be better than the gush engine as you want to consistenly have mana available to cast Talrand/Other spells.  My version personally has 2 intuition, 4 AK, 4 Preordain, but I also run 5 strips, 2 surgical extracts/extirpate (you decide), Thoughtseizes, and 2 noxious Revival.  I run 3 talrand, AND 2 jace, and only 2 mana drains, but have yet had issues casting either.  And I also run Tinker/Bot, and TV/Key.  The best things about this version, IMO, is 1) It can remain 2 colors, thus allowing ample basics if needed (MUD/Fish meta etc) 2) I also have multiple win outlets through Jace, Talrand, Snapcasters, TinkerBot, and TV/Key. 3.) Preordain, Intuition, AK, Noxious Revival, and Snapcasters, along with Acall/Brainstorm ofc, has been ample draw/spell counts to amass enough of an army for GG at any time.  I would like to fit a TFK in, but haven't found the room in my personal list.  4) Free spells such as FOW, Misstep, Surgical Extraction, and Noxious Revival, make amassing an army, and staying in the games despite spheres/wastes a lot easier. 5)  Hurkyll's recall is your best friend ever, even if recasting all your moxen doesn't count towards "drake storm".  I have been running 2 maindeck, and have yet to look back.  Creature control has been almost completely uneeded with the use of Talrand, Jace, and Snapcasters.  My only worry is turn 1 confidant, for as we all know its simply a 1 sided howling mine.  My main worry is MUD, which 2 hurk's main, and 2 color/ample basics has helped versus abundantly.

Anyways, I have agreements, and disagreements with you both on how exactly this deck should be built, but I do see the 1 thing we all agree upon is that it is definitely t1 playable.  It is an amazing card, and I think over time we are going to see ALOT of different builds with it.  Whether is "free spell.dec" with FOW, Misstep, Gush, and Phyrexian Mana Cards, or in a control style with 15+ counters, or even in some UR aggor build with Delvers/Bolts/FireIces/Lava Darts (yes I have tried this to some varied success with Intution/AK engine), or in "Flashback.dec" with lava darts, ancient grudges, and 4 snapcasters,  or maybe even something we haven't thought of, the card is going to be played, and more than likely win some tournaments.

my 2 cents.

[Grand Inquisitor]

In my (I'll admit limited) testing with this card, I have found the AK engine to be better than the gush engine as you want to consistenly have mana available to cast Talrand/Other spells.

This makes good sense...provided you can explain how having a draw engine with an average casting of 2-3 compared with 0 increases the mana available. Thanks.

[rmn]

In my (I'll admit limited) testing with this card, I have found the AK engine to be better than the gush engine as you want to consistenly have mana available to cast Talrand/Other spells.

This makes good sense...provided you can explain how having a draw engine with an average casting of 2-3 compared with 0 increases the mana available. Thanks.

Probably he means he doesn't want to take his Islands off the board.

[serracollector]

Exactly, you can always EOT AK.  I def meant mana on board.  Permanents is good against many decks.  No everything is based on the stack.  Gush is amazing with talrand as I said.  I just said in my testing, versus lots of MUD and fish, I should emphasize, I have found the AK engine better.  One could arguably go the other way saying "free gush"  under spheres, and being able to bounce lands in response to waste/strip, makes Gush better.  Sometimes there isn't an obvious "best".  Right now I would go with the AK/Intu engine, but I also utilize Intuition as a tutor with Noxious Revival.

[Grand Inquisitor]

Not conclusive, obviously, but at least a data point, Gush.Talrand T8's a competitive field:

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=44390.0

I haven't posted recently because I've been testing the AK version; so far I haven't liked it...mostly because it's top-heavy.

[Bill Copes]

Not conclusive, obviously, but at least a data point, Gush.Talrand T8's a competitive field:

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=44390.0

I haven't posted recently because I've been testing the AK version; so far I haven't liked it...mostly because it's top-heavy.

I'm feeling Sky Summoner needs lots of free spells to be leveraged effectively.  IT+AK is a five mana investment after you've sunk 4 into this a turn earlier.  I think you're not liking it because the deck is working against itself, albeit subtly.

I think something with gushes, G.probes, cheap flashback spells, etc is probably the way to go.  The Almost Blue deck from the report is also a great direction.

I know we shy away against untested lists, but this is along the lines of what I'm thinking about building:


1 Flooded Strand
2 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Sensei’s Divining Top
1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key

3 Talrand, Sky Summoner
3 Snapcaster Mage
3  Jace, the Mindsculptor

4 Gush
4 Force of Will
3 Mental Misstep
2 Thoughtsieze
2 Gitaxian Probe
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Ponder
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Brainstorm
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Fastbond
1 Nature’s Claim

[PeAcH]

Talran is just awesome. I´m really impressed with him during and after the tournament.

It gives you all you need: defense and offense at the same time.

When it hits the table and you have a hand of permission, opponent cannot move because the table gets flooded with Dragons in the blink of an eye. Chaining some cards during your turn or simply tutoring for Walk is incredible.

You build an army while drawing cards or just playing some stuff.

Almost blue seemed the more suitable choice for an untested card as the Legend fits smoothly into the philosophy of the deck.

It does however deserve a deck build around him to be used @ full potential. You just have to play him for an afternoon to want more of this

[BlackVise]

Any thoughts on running him in control decks? I'm tempted to try a copy in my Keeper deck as a way to deal with creatures, but I'm wondering if he may be too slow in a deck like that.

[The Atog Lord]

Any thoughts on running him in control decks? I'm tempted to try a copy in my Keeper deck as a way to deal with creatures, but I'm wondering if he may be too slow in a deck like that.

In Keeper, he has synergy with both Moat and The Abyss.

[BlackVise]

Any thoughts on running him in control decks? I'm tempted to try a copy in my Keeper deck as a way to deal with creatures, but I'm wondering if he may be too slow in a deck like that.

In Keeper, he has synergy with both Moat and The Abyss.

I haven't got either in my deck, but good point regardless. I'll give him a try.

[Onslaught]

This card is a house, I expect big things from it at Gencon

[Grand Inquisitor]

More testing confirmed that Int/AK was not a natural pairing.

Even harder than getting to 4 mana after a Gush (which hasn't been hard) was spending significant mana on both a win condition, draw engine and counters/removal.  You have to cheat somewhere to keep spell velocity.