[Free Article] So Many Insane Plays -- Rogue Hermit: The Fastest Deck in Vintage

[Smmenen]

http://www.eternalcentral.com/?p=3544

A long time ago, Wizards of the Coast printed . This little critter may look harmless enough, but he soon got into trouble – big trouble for such a little guy. Once players figured out that they could build decks without basic lands, they realized that they could activate this guy to empty their entire [...]

So, this is my Vintage Hermit deck.

Go be a griefer!

Hope folks enjoy the fact that I decided to make this article free for all

[MaximumCDawg]

You left out Fiend Hunter.

[Smmenen]

Haha!  It's questionably legal, at best.  And not better than just killing the opponent with Maniac, at worst.

[MaximumCDawg]

He's legal as long as you don't have to deal with Emmy or Blessing.  And he saves you one slot on your kill package.  It's more subject to disruption than Maniac, though.

Leyline of Lifeforce is HUGE for the sideboard, and another amazing reason why this deck has an edge over Belcher.  If Blue decks have to worry about all of their countermagic being nullified pre-game, what the heck do they do against this deck?

Do you think Goyf is a better sideboard option than Oath of Druids against Workshop?  If you stick Oath, Workshop just plain loses (absent Smokey I guess).  You keep chumping them until you hit your Rogue and mill em out.

[Smmenen]

Yes, I love that post-board you can use both Pacts & Leylines to protect your kill.

I actually don't have much confidence in Goyfs, which I did test and lost most of the games in which I had them.

I think the SB may actually just be better with ETW/Belchers in those spots, and just concede the Workshop matchup if you lose the die roll. 

[MaximumCDawg]

I added a comment to the article.  In addition to Oath, what about Leyline of Anticipation against Workshop on the play?  Then you have eight cards to protect a turn 1 win from Spheres, just like you can do with counterspell decks.

[Smmenen]

Oh snap.  That might not be a bad idea!

That way you can beat Shops in the upkeep of their first turn!!!!

This deck needs a 30 card sideboard for all the Leylines

[Smmenen]

A few things I want to underscore that maybe did not get alot of attention this article:

* You'll notice I play a Belcher maindeck.  Belcher may also be really good in the sideboard, since it trumps all of the graveyard hate like Leyline, etc.

* Chancellor of the Tangle is a very serious consideration.  One thing that makes it better than ESG is that you can not only use it on turn one like an ESG, but it can be imprinted on a Chrome Mox which makes it absolutely insane 2-for-1.  I think it's mandatory if you play with a Living Wish build. 

* Chancellor of the Annex is INSANE in Legacy, weak in Vintage. 

* See all my notes in this article on Living Wish (Control F Living Wish).  If you run full Belchers between main and SB, Living Wish is very attractive as tutor for Workshop.  

* Flash is a great card, but doesn't work in this deck cause it can't trigger Informer.  It only triggers Spy.  

[Smmenen]

@MaximumDawg:

You've really got me thinking about Leyline of Anticipation.  

I've asked Jaco to update with a new sideboard plan, which he will hopefully do tonight.   It's weird that I instantly thought of Leyline of the Lifeforce but never even considered Leyline of Anticipation.

Leyline of Anticipation opens up SO MANY interesting possiblities and insane plays.

Consider:

Against a control opponent, you can play Leyline and cast Empty the Warrens before they get a turn.  Without Mindbreak Trap, there is nothing they can do.  

Against Workshops, you can even lose game 1, destroy them on the play game 2, and then use Leyline to win game 3.  

It also opens up the possibility of being able to use Force of Will.

With 4 Narcomoeba, 4 Pact of Negation, and 4 Leyline of Anticipation, we could even put 4 Force of Will into the sideboard.  

If you use Fiend Hunter in the deck, then Lab Maniac is pitchable as well as Azami.   That would give you 18 blue cards.

Re: Fiend Hunter.   The more I think about it, the more viable this seems.   No one in Vintage really plays Emrakul or Blessing unless they are strange Oath builds.  Against those decks, just bring in Belcher or ETW.  I think you might actually be right about it.  If we add Fiend Hunter and cut Maniac/Azami, I would probably add the 3rd Simian Spirit Guide maindeck. 

This deck is getting sicker and more interesting by the day...

[MaximumCDawg]

Glad to be of help!  I proved to myself recently (SCG Open Denver) that I cannot successfully pilot one of your builds, but I do strive to understand the theory behind them anyway.

[credmond]

The next Flash?

Are we going to have to start maindecking Leyline of the Voids and Mindbreak Trap to fight this beast?

This deck seems real sick with Leyline of Anticipation tech. I would run Leyline of Anticipation maindeck. 50% of the time Leyline of Anticipation is directly relevant game 1 and should you win the die roll it can still be pitched to force or imprinted on chrome mox for value.

I wonder if you could somehow run Serum Powders in this deck.

[Smmenen]

Can't use serum powder with the Mill Kill since your kill has a bunch of singletons and needs Narco/Bridges.

Leyline of Anticipation isn't good enough maindeck, imo, but is certainy sb worthy.  I'm going to have Jaco update this article with a revised sb with it, as I mentioned above.

It does feel very much like Flash in alot of ways.  When I published this article, I did so under the expectation that I wouldn't play this in a tournament becuase of a bad workshop matchup, but I think Leyline of Anticipation and boarding 4 ETW and 3 more Belchers actually changes that.   This deck could be really good.   

I did alot of testing to get to the deck in this article, not just goldfishing.  I tested mostly against blue time vault decks. 

[credmond]

Can't use serum powder with the Mill Kill since your kill has a bunch of singletons and needs Narco/Bridges.

Leyline of Anticipation isn't good enough maindeck, imo, but is certainy sb worthy.  I'm going to have Jaco update this article with a revised sb with it, as I mentioned above.

It does feel very much like Flash in alot of ways.  When I published this article, I did so under the expectation that I wouldn't play this in a tournament becuase of a bad workshop matchup, but I think Leyline of Anticipation and boarding 4 ETW and 3 more Belchers actually changes that.   This deck could be really good.   

I did alot of testing to get to the deck in this article, not just goldfishing.  I tested mostly against blue time vault decks. 

My thinking was that you would also run FOW maindeck, because well FOW is good in Vintage, and Leyline of Anticipation, regardless of whether you win the roll or not, helps bring the blue count high enough for FOW. Being able to run FOW and Pact game 1 may be overkill but something worth testing out.

[Smmenen]

Can't use serum powder with the Mill Kill since your kill has a bunch of singletons and needs Narco/Bridges.

Leyline of Anticipation isn't good enough maindeck, imo, but is certainy sb worthy.  I'm going to have Jaco update this article with a revised sb with it, as I mentioned above.

It does feel very much like Flash in alot of ways.  When I published this article, I did so under the expectation that I wouldn't play this in a tournament becuase of a bad workshop matchup, but I think Leyline of Anticipation and boarding 4 ETW and 3 more Belchers actually changes that.   This deck could be really good.   

I did alot of testing to get to the deck in this article, not just goldfishing.  I tested mostly against blue time vault decks. 

My thinking was that you would also run FOW maindeck, because well FOW is good in Vintage, and Leyline of Anticipation, regardless of whether you win the roll or not, helps bring the blue count high enough for FOW. Being able to run FOW and Pact game 1 may be overkill but something worth testing out.

It also opens up the possibility of being able to use Force of Will.

With 4 Narcomoeba, 4 Pact of Negation, and 4 Leyline of Anticipation, we could even put 4 Force of Will into the sideboard. 

Or maindeck, of course.   But Pact is better, also.

[mistervader]

Always been a fan of Leyline Of Anticipation. Picked up a set of them early on for Doomsday, but Quicken was just better. Haha.

This is a beautiful deck, and is a lot like Flash in that it's a two-card combo, except the "second card" is an ample mana source, as opposed to trying to put two four-of's together.

[Oath of Happy]

"Against a control opponent, you can play Leyline and cast Empty the Warrens before they get a turn.  Without Mindbreak Trap, there is nothing they can do."

- Doesn't the game begin in the opponents first main hence why there is no draw for the turn?  If so, they have priority and if you put a Leyline of Anticipation into play, the obvious move is to start with a land since it doesn't use the stack.

[BC]

This deck is crazy fast.  Fairly easily disrupted, but still damn fast.

I have been goldfishing this a little.  I have run into several hands that would win on the first turn, except that I had either Angel or Azami or Lab Man or Dread Return in my hand and couldn't hard cast it.  What are your thoughts on having a Phantasmagorian in the main deck?

[Smmenen]

This deck is crazy fast.  Fairly easily disrupted, but still damn fast.

I have been goldfishing this a little.  I have run into several hands that would win on the first turn, except that I had either Angel or Azami or Lab Man or Dread Return in my hand and couldn't hard cast it.  What are your thoughts on having a Phantasmagorian in the main deck?

Read my article on that

I address that issue.  Also, how to win if you have combo cards in hand (Re: Therapy yourself from the yard before winning). Control F Phantasmagorian if you are lazy.

"Against a control opponent, you can play Leyline and cast Empty the Warrens before they get a turn.  Without Mindbreak Trap, there is nothing they can do."

- Doesn't the game begin in the opponents first main hence why there is no draw for the turn?  If so, they have priority and if you put a Leyline of Anticipation into play, the obvious move is to start with a land since it doesn't use the stack.

No, you win in their first turn upkeep.  The first player still has an upkeep.  

Always been a fan of Leyline Of Anticipation. Picked up a set of them early on for Doomsday, but Quicken was just better. Haha.

This is a beautiful deck, and is a lot like Flash in that it's a two-card combo, except the "second card" is an ample mana source, as opposed to trying to put two four-of's together.

Thanks!!!

[PhilipJFry]

This deck is crazy fast.  Fairly easily disrupted, but still damn fast.

I have been goldfishing this a little.  I have run into several hands that would win on the first turn, except that I had either Angel or Azami or Lab Man or Dread Return in my hand and couldn't hard cast it.  What are your thoughts on having a Phantasmagorian in the main deck?

You Cabal Therapy yourself to get those out of your hand. 

[BC]

Yeah, I'm totally lazy.  I skipped to the deck list and goldfish games.  Therapy yourself is a much better idea.

[Smmenen]

Yeah, I'm totally lazy.  I skipped to the deck list and goldfish games.  Therapy yourself is a much better idea.

*Gasp* I hope no one else did that!

Seriously, it's worth reading.  I buried alot of tips and tactics in the body. 

[Smmenen]

FYI: Jaco updated the article with my revised SB with Leyline of Anticipation.   (But has not yet finished putting all of the opening hand images into the article)

[Meddling Mike]

Thanks for the article Steve. This is great quality free content. Could you expand on your exclusion of Street Wraith/Gitaxian Probe in this deck? You mention that it could be better than Simian Spirit Guide but not much else.

[Onslaught]

I've been testing the Leyline of Anticipation version with 4x FOW and it seems really, really viable. I don't know if this deck will ever justify it, but it makes me want modify my other decks' sideboards to run Ravenous Trap (with Leylines) instead of "slower" stuff like Nihil, Cage, etc...that's how fast and consistent this deck is.

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

My only issue with this deck is...the very nature of it. If you are on the draw game 1 vs shops you lose. And likely you will lose the series. If you are vs blue and you mulligan game or even no mulligan a counter can ruin your plans. And games 2 and 3 vs any deck you will need to beat grave hate, counters, and shops decks. Love the concept and idea here but I don't think it will be as bonkers and put up results as people hope/think. I could be wrong...

Playing against counters + grave hate, almost seems in winnable unless its a Christmas land hand with green source, claim (hope no misstep from opponent), mana accel, the win con, and hope no force of will or any counters to stop your accel...idk. Seems like alot to ask for.

I'm not shooting this deck down but I am skeptical. So we shal see!

I feel like on games 2 and 3 I would be wishing my deck was a hermit Druid deck with lands and an alternate win con, and easier ways around the hate...

[MaximumCDawg]

My only issue with this deck is...the very nature of it. If you are on the draw game 1 vs shops you lose. And likely you will lose the series. If you are vs blue and you mulligan game or even no mulligan a counter can ruin your plans. And games 2 and 3 vs any deck you will need to beat grave hate, counters, and shops decks. Love the concept and idea here but I don't think it will be as bonkers and put up results as people hope/think. I could be wrong...

Playing against counters + grave hate, almost seems in winnable unless its a Christmas land hand with green source, claim (hope no misstep from opponent), mana accel, the win con, and hope no force of will or any counters to stop your accel...idk. Seems like alot to ask for.

I'm not shooting this deck down but I am skeptical. So we shal see!

I feel like on games 2 and 3 I would be wishing my deck was a hermit Druid deck with lands and an alternate win con, and easier ways around the hate...

The consistent threat of turn 1 victory might be enough to average out a good result over a tournament if you can fairly beat the expected hate. 

As far as your alternative win con, well, that's what Belcher or Empty is for.

[credmond]

My only issue with this deck is...the very nature of it. If you are on the draw game 1 vs shops you lose. And likely you will lose the series.

If you play Leyline of Anticipation + FOW maindeck you can beat shops game 1 on the draw.

[Smmenen]

My only issue with this deck is...the very nature of it. If you are on the draw game 1 vs shops you lose. And likely you will lose the series.

Not necessarily.  Did you read the article?


You will be on the play game 1, and win on the first turn.  And then bring in Leyline of Anticipation for game 3 and can bring in Belchers/ETW too, and all you have to do is play one of them.

If you are vs blue and you mulligan game or even no mulligan a counter can ruin your plans.

Again, I talk about this in the are.  You bring in Leyline of the Lifeforce and have Pacts.  That way they have to counter your mana.  All you need do then is reach 4 mana and win.

With Leylie of the LIfeforce, you don't have to go all in on turn one.  They can't counter your creature, so you just have to develop your mana.  You have plenty of stable mana sources, and they wno't be able to counter them all.

And games 2 and 3 vs any deck you will need to beat grave hate, counters, and shops decks.

You don't have to beat grave hate, becasue once you see the grave hate, you switch to Belcher/ETW.  Again, see the article.  

ETW also can't be stopped by conventional counter magic anyway.

Love the concept and idea here but I don't think it will be as bonkers and put up results as people hope/think. I could be wrong...

I'm not making any predictions regarding this deck, just putting out there a build I put time into developing and tuning.   But it seems like you didn't really read the article, just skimmed.

Thanks for the article Steve. This is great quality free content. Could you expand on your exclusion of Street Wraith/Gitaxian Probe in this deck? You mention that it could be better than Simian Spirit Guide but not much else.

Since the printing of Barbed Sextant, Vintage combo decks have often incorporated these effects, which have both uncertain and certain value, paradoxically.  There is real value to both cards both in the general and specific sense of both  thinning your library and being able to draw a new card into your hand and/or see your opponent's hand.

The way I've designed the deck, I seek to reduce variance.  I want to build the most consistent opening hands as possible.   Consider:

If you have an opening with no started black source or no combo creature/Belcher/DT, you can't keep the hand.  Would you keep the hand if you have Probe/Street Wraith?  No, you can't.  If that's the case, then it follows that Street Wraith/Probe make mulligan decisions harder without actually improving your opening hands and/or consistency.  It's better to make the deck more detrminant at the outset.

The emphasis on Leylines/Chancelors in the sideboard of the VIntage/Legacy build reinforces this basic analysis against Probe/Wraith.

If I were to run an effect like that, it would be Chromatic Sphere/Star to filter to a black mana. 

[mmcgeach]

So, if this deck needed something to be restricted, hypothetically, because it had a high % turn 1 win with counter/disruption...  is that card Chrome Mox?

I know one could obviously restrict the two black creatures, but it seems like chrome mox is the most powerful unrestricted mana accelerant for the deck, and a really key play.  Might that be the more general offender? Or is the deck just as good with (say) chromatic star in place of chrome mox?

[Prospero]

So, if this deck needed something to be restricted, hypothetically, because it had a high % turn 1 win with counter/disruption...  is that card Chrome Mox?

I know one could obviously restrict the two black creatures, but it seems like chrome mox is the most powerful unrestricted mana accelerant for the deck, and a really key play.  Might that be the more general offender? Or is the deck just as good with (say) chromatic star in place of chrome mox?

While I understand that it would be convenient to discuss B&R list decisions with regards to this deck in the discussion of this article, any B&R list discussions should be had in the Vintage Issues forum, in lieu of discussing them anywhere else.