[YMTCIV] Color choice

[Smmenen]

The most played enchantment in Vintage is black.  For what it's worth.  

Oath of Druids is black?

??

Oath of Druids is not even in the top 50 most played cards in Vintage.  Leyline of the Void is consistently in the top 20.  

Morphling.de tracks top 8 card appearances.  Until the last few months, Leyline of the Void was consistently in the top 10, and often in the top 3-5 cards that appeared in Vintage top 8s.  See: http://www.morphling.de/statistics.php?id=2012.9

Oath of Druids has, so far as I can tell, only once in the last 4 months appeared in the top 50 (as the 50th most played card).  

Leyline of the Void is not only by far the most played enchantment in Vintage, it's by a gigantic margin.   It's sometimes been the 2nd most played card in the format, behind Force: http://www.morphling.de/statistics.php?id=2011.11

I'm voting blue though.   Given what the first post set out, I think blue offers the most potential for a non-prison, interesting Vintage card. 

[mikekilljoy]

I plan on voting for black, because every Commander deck I seemingly ever build is black with something.

Previous decks: Shaarum, Nath, Thrax

Current decks: Horobi and Kish Val

[Klep]

Blue, because I'm still voting to push the card as close to Counterspell as possible.

[TheWhiteDragon]

See my U cost enchantment in the other thread - Klep would love it.  Perhaps it was posted in the wrong place.  For reference:

Aura Alarm
U
Enchantment
Whenever a creature or artifact is cast, counter that spell and sacrifice Aura Alarm

[Bill Copes]

See my U cost enchantment in the other thread - Klep would love it.  Perhaps it was posted in the wrong place.  For reference:

Aura Alarm
U
Enchantment
Whenever a creature or artifact is cast, counter that spell and sacrifice Aura Alarm

Looks pretty similar:


I wish you could easily recur this card.

[Wagner]

See my U cost enchantment in the other thread - Klep would love it.  Perhaps it was posted in the wrong place.  For reference:

Aura Alarm
U
Enchantment
Whenever a creature or artifact is cast, counter that spell and sacrifice Aura Alarm

Looks pretty similar:


I wish you could easily recur this card.

Let's break this format!

To be fair, you can easily recur it with Argivian Find, it's just not a good card, your opponent always chooses which of his cards get countered and you can't get more than a 1 for 1 like Counterbalance. For a 2 mana counter, it's in the worst, recurable or not.

[TheWhiteDragon]

It's trigger is templated the same as hesitation, but it is VASTLY better.  For starters, it only costs 1, not 2.  Secondly, anyone can still cast enchantments, instants, sorceries, and planeswalkers through it - which blue could play through just fine while giving aggro/shop plans a kick in the nuts proactively for just U.  Hesitation hurts the caster equally (like standstill), but Aura Alarm would basically be like a "seal of counterspell" that the blue deck could keep playing through while limiting the opponent only.

[RisingWater]

I'm guessing something like this would be blue?

An enchantment with counters, that prevents opponents from drawing cards.

[DubDub]

The color vote is up now, through Thursday at midnight.

I voted Black, in an effort to get this as close to Necropotence as possible.

[xouman]

I've voted for red. I love blood moon, a card that punishes greed manabases, lowers MUD power, destroys bazaar, annoys oath...

Ancient Runes would be a good start, but it has been there for 2 centuries with no impact so it can be improved. Maybe 1 damage for each artifact and non-basic land? 2 damage for each artifact? 2 damage or 2 mana?

Red is easily splashable, allows direct damage, looting, deals with non-basic lands (a moon leyline??? awesome, it would deal with MWS and bazaar), artifacts, haste and first strike effects, sacrifice own creatures, little broken plays but consistent stinging.


An improved Lightning Rift (which I loved)?

Shock Guild 1RR
enchantment

whennever you discard a card from your hand, you may pay 1 and deal 2 damage to target creature or player


Not a very attractive card for vintage, and capable of breaking modern, but it's just an idea.

[Stormanimagus]

I voted for white cause I want to see if someone can make Serra's Sanctum good in Vintage. People seem to forget that, unless this is a Leyline, pretty much all we care about is Casting Cost in Vintage. White at least offers the possibility of being accelerated into with Sanctum.

-Storm

[DubDub]

I voted for white cause I want to see if someone can make Serra's Sanctum good in Vintage. People seem to forget that, unless this is a Leyline, pretty much all we care about is Casting Cost in Vintage. White at least offers the possibility of being accelerated into with Sanctum.

-Storm

To accel with Sanctum you would need *other* enchantments to accelerate out a new one...
If it were Black you would just need Dark Ritual.
If it were Blue (provided it contains like  or in its cost) you would just need Mana Drain.
If it were Green (or any color really) you would just need Lotus Cobra.  Remember Snake City Vault?  That deck played  and  together with ease.

Noble Hierarch and Deathrite Shaman also exist...

I think it's kinda ridiculous to say that the reason to vote white is that we might get two playable cards out of it (the card itself, and then Sanctum becoming playable).  That's a *higher* bar for playability, because it has to be good enough to make Sanctum good enough.  We have a better chance, in the case of a high casting cost, pairing it with acceleration that's already playable, right?

[Stormanimagus]

I voted for white cause I want to see if someone can make Serra's Sanctum good in Vintage. People seem to forget that, unless this is a Leyline, pretty much all we care about is Casting Cost in Vintage. White at least offers the possibility of being accelerated into with Sanctum.

-Storm

To accel with Sanctum you would need *other* enchantments to accelerate out a new one...
If it were Black you would just need Dark Ritual.
If it were Blue (provided it contains like  or in its cost) you would just need Mana Drain.
If it were Green (or any color really) you would just need Lotus Cobra.  Remember Snake City Vault?  That deck played  and  together with ease.

Noble Hierarch and Deathrite Shaman also exist...

I think it's kinda ridiculous to say that the reason to vote white is that we might get two playable cards out of it (the card itself, and then Sanctum becoming playable).  That's a *higher* bar for playability, because it has to be good enough to make Sanctum good enough.  We have a better chance, in the case of a high casting cost, pairing it with acceleration that's already playable, right?

Sure, but don't forget the color pie. They've already stated the kinds of things they will/won't print given a color choice with relation to the pie. I doubt they'll make anything with broken enough card advantage in B/U and that is likely the mechanic the enchantment would receive in one of those 2 colors. Green was a close second choice for me btw.

-Storm

[DubDub]

@Storm

Right.  In today's poll article he says, with respect to the color pie:

People have been advocating rules-defining white enchantments, disruptive blue enchantments, powerful black enchantments, chaos-inducing red enchantments, and green enchantments that grow over time.

Emphasis mine.

We all know what 'powerful' means there: Necropotence.  Life-for-Cards, in some form.  They can't stay away, and I think there's a possibility a version of it comes out of this promotion.  The next step toward that is to vote 'black' this week.

A white enchantment from this will be, essentially, another 4/4 creature with Opalesence pumping up Serra's Sanctum and keeping creatures without Plainswalk from attacking you.

[vaughnbros]

I personally voted Red because nothing sounds funner than a random effect strong enough to see competitive play.

@Storm

Right.  In today's poll article he says, with respect to the color pie:

People have been advocating rules-defining white enchantments, disruptive blue enchantments, powerful black enchantments, chaos-inducing red enchantments, and green enchantments that grow over time.

Emphasis mine.

We all know what 'powerful' means there: Necropotence.  Life-for-Cards, in some form.  They can't stay away, and I think there's a possibility a version of it comes out of this promotion.  The next step toward that is to vote 'black' this week.

Black enchantments could easily also cause players to discard cards, destroy creatures, interact with the graveyard, or even something stupid like making zombies.  There's nothing forcing it to be Phyrexian Arena or Bargain.

A white enchantment from this will be, essentially, another 4/4 creature with Opalesence pumping up Serra's Sanctum and keeping creatures without Plainswalk from attacking you.

I don't really see how opalescense is that rules defying.  Cards like Eon Hub, Leyline of Anticipation, and Mirror Gallery would be classified as rules defying.

[DubDub]

@Storm

Right.  In today's poll article he says, with respect to the color pie:

People have been advocating rules-defining white enchantments, disruptive blue enchantments, powerful black enchantments, chaos-inducing red enchantments, and green enchantments that grow over time.

Emphasis mine.

We all know what 'powerful' means there: Necropotence.  Life-for-Cards, in some form.  They can't stay away, and I think there's a possibility a version of it comes out of this promotion.  The next step toward that is to vote 'black' this week.

Black enchantments could easily also cause players to discard cards, destroy creatures, interact with the graveyard, or even something stupid like making zombies.  There's nothing forcing it to be Phyrexian Arena or Bargain.

Won't there be a vote influencing what it does?  I understand that there will be other options for such a vote, but I would think something hinting at 'life-for-cards' would win.

[vaughnbros]

@Storm

Right.  In today's poll article he says, with respect to the color pie:

People have been advocating rules-defining white enchantments, disruptive blue enchantments, powerful black enchantments, chaos-inducing red enchantments, and green enchantments that grow over time.

Emphasis mine.

We all know what 'powerful' means there: Necropotence.  Life-for-Cards, in some form.  They can't stay away, and I think there's a possibility a version of it comes out of this promotion.  The next step toward that is to vote 'black' this week.

Black enchantments could easily also cause players to discard cards, destroy creatures, interact with the graveyard, or even something stupid like making zombies.  There's nothing forcing it to be Phyrexian Arena or Bargain.

Won't there be a vote influencing what it does?  I understand that there will be other options for such a vote, but I would think something hinting at 'life-for-cards' would win.

If everyone had a vintage mind set than yes, but thats just not the case.  Griselbrand sees relatively no play outside of vintage and legacy, even though standard decks are capable of ramping and cheating him into play.  Dark confidant sees relatively no play outside of vintage and modern Jund, even though there are plenty of decks in both legacy and modern that could be playing him. 

The other effects are likely to be much more useful in other formats not to mention much more aggressively costed for vintage.

[Stormanimagus]

I'll need to do some brainstorming, but I really do think a white enchantment with a unique effect and sufficient power could be printed. I think a new mechanic or a creative use of an old one could be the way to go, but I do think the CMC is of prime important regardless of what is chosen. I think that if we get a R, W or G card the cost should at least be RR, WW, or GG respectively so that the chance of a splash in UB/x.dec is unlikely. ORRRRR we could go Leyline but that opens up a huge can of worms and I think we can make a good card without it. I will be happy with any color honestly. I'm more concerned about what the card does, and I only voted white cause I know white is a color that has had good enchantment style effects in the past. I could see black being fine.

-Storm

[TheWhiteDragon]

2BB
Enchantment
Leyline wording.  Players can't draw cards. During each players upkeep, that player reveals their top card and loses life = to its cc and puts it in hand.

[quicksilvervii]

2BB
Enchantment
Leyline wording.  Players can't draw cards. During each players upkeep, that player reveals their top card and loses life = to its cc and puts it in hand.

This seems horribly unfun, and I would just play infinity counterspells and a sensei's top.

I'll have to think of something a little less confusing than Chains, but I wouldn't mind seeing an enchantment that would nerf brainstorm in legacy and preemptively neuter Jace a bit.

[nedleeds]

I voted black because I hate all other colors.

BBB - Tears of the Fetus
Enchantment
X : Destroy target non-land permanent with converted mana cost X. You lose XX life.

Don't make the life payment part of the payment, make it happen on resolution so you can go nuts with Lich and not get polearmed by Stifle.

Mashing Delvers with this in Legacy would be fantastic as well.

[vaughnbros]

2BB
Enchantment
Leyline wording.  Players can't draw cards. During each players upkeep, that player reveals their top card and loses life = to its cc and puts it in hand.

This seems horribly unfun, and I would just play infinity counterspells and a sensei's top.

I'll have to think of something a little less confusing than Chains, but I wouldn't mind seeing an enchantment that would nerf brainstorm in legacy and preemptively neuter Jace a bit.

Maybe something like...

Burning Thoughts
R
Enchantment
Whenever a player draws a card, Burning Thoughts deals 1 damage to that player.

Although its mana cost or ability may need to be nerfed a little bit.

I voted black because I hate all other colors.

BBB - Tears of the Fetus
Enchantment
X : Destroy target non-land permanent with converted mana cost X. You lose XX life.

Don't make the life payment part of the payment, make it happen on resolution so you can go nuts with Lich and not get polearmed by Stifle.

Mashing Delvers with this in Legacy would be fantastic as well.

I like the idea.  It also works well with Platinum Emperion/Angel.

[Wagner]

Maybe something like...

Burning Thoughts
R
Enchantment
Whenever a player draws a card, Burning Thoughts deals 1 damage to that player.

Although its mana cost or ability may need to be nerfed a little bit.

I think you can come up with something a bit more original

[Stormanimagus]

Ok,

Let's look into a powerful white enchantment (since that's what I'd like to see I think):


Loxodon Council Chamber  

Enchantment

Impervious - Loxodon Council Chamber cannot have it's casting cost altered.

Whenever a creature would assign combat damage prevent that damage and put an attrition counter on Loxodon Council Chamber.

Whenever a spell or ability would deal damage to a player prevent that damage and put an attrition counter on Loxodon Council Chamber.

At the end of each player's turn remove all attrition counters from Loxodon Council Chamber and each of that player's opponents loses that much life.


This fulfills the requirement of only being able to be easily played in a white-centric deck and I think it has a pretty unique effect. It basically turns every kind of damage dealing effect into a 1 damage only and also prevents life-link from happening at all. There might be a way to word it better, but I think it would definitely be a unique card with a unique impact on many formats.


Ok, let's try something else:


Giant's Glare          

Enchantment

Spells with converted mana cost 4 or more cost   more to cast.

Spells with converted mana cost 3 or less cost   less to cast.



-Storm

[xouman]

Ok,
Giant's Glare          

Enchantment

Spells with converted mana cost 4 or more cost   more to cast.

Spells with converted mana cost 3 or less cost   less to cast.



-Storm

I've changed the second effect. I like it a lot! Still the cost is a bit hard to play, but the effect is powerful.

[Stormanimagus]

Well I think you gotta make this thing WW at least to insure that it can't be abused by a storm deck. I think that making something that costs 3 now cost 0 could be dangerous, but perhaps not.

What about this variant:

Giant's Glare        

Enchantment

Spells with converted mana cost 3 or greater cost   more to play.

Spells with converted mana cost 2 or less cost   less to play.



This would bring Chalice @2 into the mix as a way to hose this but make it affect more spells like Tinker/Will/Twister.

-Storm

Also, what do people think of the Council Chamber card? Too complicated? What do people think of the Impervious ability? Does it scream Vintage way too much? Could it be worded more clearly such that you can't also cast the enchantment for free by cheating it into play?

[DubDub]

Also, what do people think of the Council Chamber card?

Isn't that cleaner as "If any non-zero amount of damage would be dealt to a player, instead one damage is dealt."  I don't think the whole counter business is necessary, unless you really want to let people go crazy playing defense with Hex Parasite.

[TheWhiteDragon]

How about:

Mortal power
W/G W/G
Enchantment

Hexproof
If you control 2 humans during your upkeep, you win the game.

Anyone like this idea?  Anybody?

[Stormanimagus]

How about:

Mortal power
W/G W/G
Enchantment

Hexproof
If you control 2 humans during your upkeep, you win the game.

Anyone like this idea?  Anybody?

I don't find this funny in the slightest.

[bactgudz]

Nianfo  W
Enchantment
All land cards you own that aren't on the battlefield and all lands you control are basic.
Spells and abilities your opponents control can't cause permanents you control to become tapped.
Pure land brings peace and serenity.