Slivers

[msg67183]

I know it has been awhile since anyone has posted on this thread, but I have put a list together to get my cousin into vintage since he loves playing with his sliver deck.

Don't necro old threads. Start new ones, and link to the old thread in the opening post if you must.
-Godder

Slivers

4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Wasteland
2 Ghost Quarter
Strip Mine
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
Lotus Petal

4 Muscle Sliver
4 Predatory Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver

3 Galerider Sliver
3 Striking Sliver

3 Hibernation Sliver
3 Crystalline Sliver

2 Harmonic Sliver

3 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Null Rod
 
Sideboard:

2 Ghost Quarter
2 Harmonic Sliver
3 Dismember
1 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Relic of Progenitus
4 Mental Misstep

The list basically plays similar to Fish playing mana denial and growing guys. Galerider giving flying and Striking giving first strike make combat fairly simple. The interaction between hibernation and harmonic seems very strong against Workshops and the main deck Cages give some hate for Dredge and Oath.

The Spirit Guides are there to make it easier for him to build under proxy limit.

Any thoughts for this deck?

[Bill Copes]

I'd chop the spirit guides and lotus petal for more 5-color mana.  Perhaps Add 4x Thran Quarry and then leave the other slots open for disruption.  4 Duress or Thoughtsieze is probably a good place to start for that.

Have you considered any number of Homing Sliver to act as tutors?

I know the CC is high, but Necrotic Sliver also looks pretty saucy.

[msg67183]

I'd chop the spirit guides and lotus petal for more 5-color mana.  Perhaps Add 4x Thran Quarry and then leave the other slots open for disruption.  4 Duress or Thoughtsieze is probably a good place to start for that.

Have you considered any number of Homing Sliver to act as tutors?

I know the CC is high, but Necrotic Sliver also looks pretty saucy.

Well it's an idea, but Spirit Guides are the easiest thing for him to get, plus most of the Slivers are Red or Green...

Duress is an option too, this was just a start, there is a lot more to explore.

[Ten-Ten]

I like the Gemhide Sliver best, over at least the simian spirit guides for your list. Along with Path to exile or Swords to plowshares instead of the Striking slivers, and only reason I like winged sliver over the new flying sliver is it doesnt get hit by mental misstep.
Maybe find some room for Quick slivers if you plan on using spirit guides...

I found this not too long ago, hope it helps you.

Michael Runic, the last Troll - Slivers
Lands (16)
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Brass
3 Gemstone Mine
4 Mutavault
1 Strip Mine

Artifacts (12)
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl

4 Æther Vial
4 Thorn of Amethyst

Creatures (26)
4 Crystaline Sliver
4 Muscle Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
3 Winged Sliver
3 Gemhide Sliver
3 Harmonic Sliver
2 Hibernation Sliver
3 Phantasmal Image

Sorceries (2)
1 Time Walk
1 Demonic Tutor

Instants (5)
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Vampiric Tutor
3 Path to Exile

Sideboard (15)
2 Notion Thief
3 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Leyline of the Void
2 Dismember
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Flusterstorm
2 Chalice of the Void

[msg67183]

I like the Gemhide Sliver best, over at least the simian spirit guides for your list. Along with Path to exile or Swords to plowshares instead of the Striking slivers, and only reason I like winged sliver over the new flying sliver is it doesnt get hit by mental misstep.
Maybe find some room for Quick slivers if you plan on using spirit guides...

I found this not too long ago, hope it helps you.

Michael Runic, the last Troll - Slivers
Lands (16)
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Brass
3 Gemstone Mine
4 Mutavault
1 Strip Mine

Artifacts (12)
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl

4 Æther Vial
4 Thorn of Amethyst

Creatures (26)
4 Crystaline Sliver
4 Muscle Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
3 Winged Sliver
3 Gemhide Sliver
3 Harmonic Sliver
2 Hibernation Sliver
3 Phantasmal Image

Sorceries (2)
1 Time Walk
1 Demonic Tutor

Instants (5)
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Vampiric Tutor
3 Path to Exile

Sideboard (15)
2 Notion Thief
3 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Leyline of the Void
2 Dismember
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Flusterstorm
2 Chalice of the Void

The only time I really see Path/ Swords better than Striking Sliver is against BSC, since there are a TON of Lords to make the guys huge enough to just overwhelm other dudes.
Phantasmal Image might make it into the list, not sure yet.
The Spirit Guides might just come out to play Gemhide and Manaweft, they were just there to increase turn one plays, but I guess there is always turn one Cage, or the occasional Petal land dude.
Mutavault might be better than Wasteland in this list, but I like the mana denial plan.

[msg67183]

I've taken people's thoughts into account, here is the updated list:


Slivers

4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Mutavault
Strip Mine
Lotus Petal
3 Gemhide Sliver
3 Manaweft Sliver

4 Muscle Sliver
4 Predatory Sliver

3 Galerider Sliver
3 Striking Sliver
3 Heart Sliver

3 Crystalline Sliver

2 Harmonic Sliver

3 Grafdigger's Cage
4 Duress
4 Aether Vial

3 Phantasmal Image
 
I'm not going to even consider a sideboard yet until the main deck is finalized. With Manaweft and Gemhide, Heart Sliver is pretty insane, allowing you to empty your hand instantly... It also makes me kinda want to try Thorncaster Sliver. It acts as its own win con, as well as removal...

[LotusHead]

Did you consider Worldly Tutor and a slightly expanded toolbox suite of slivers?
Also, is cutting Sinew Sliver what Sliver.dec wants to be doing?

[Demagoguery]

Going on the Worldly Tutor idea, has anyone considered Homing Sliver? It's kind of like Imperial Recruiter, which has been very good in the Humans deck, but at instant speed and doesn't give you a body. However, if you do ever decide to cast it, it also makes all of your Slivers turn into Sliver tutors for 3.

[msg67183]

Did you consider Worldly Tutor and a slightly expanded toolbox suite of slivers?
Also, is cutting Sinew Sliver what Sliver.dec wants to be doing?

12 Lords seems to be too much, look at the list that got 2nd, it only plays 8.
I'm not sold on Duress yet but I know I don't really want homing sliver it's too mana intensive and I have consistency with the draws of Slivers already.

[vaughnbros]

I'm not sure what the point of the mana slivers is in your version of the deck other than to stabilize a bad mana base.  They are mana accelerators and you only have 2 cards in your entire deck that cost more than them.  I'm also not sure that playing slivers just with a bunch of lords and minimal disruption is going to get it done.  I'd strongly suggest something along the lines of this:

4 Predatory Sliver
4 Muscle Sliver
4 Crystalline Sliver

4 Gemhide Sliver
4 Manaweft Sliver
4 Sliver Overlord
4 Sliver Queen
1 Sliver Legion

4 Force of Will
2 Mental Misstep
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk

1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Brass
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Taiga
1 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
1 Forest

It utilizes the power of a vintage mana base along with the mana slivers to throw down the potent 5 mana sliver lords early.  Not many decks have cards in their deck even capable of fighting these lords especially if you've played a crystalline first.  You even still retain 8 of the more traditional 2 mana lords to apply early pressure, although they might be better replaced by a larger toolbox, and you gain the best answer to combo, force of will.

[msg67183]

Well, that list looks very sweet Lance. Playing Queen kinda makes me want to go into the combo version I had posted earlier with Heart Sliver and Basal Sliver... Overlord is a very nice tutor, ONLY issue I'm seeing is inability to attain cards to get under 15 proxies.

[msg67183]

I'm not sure what the point of the mana slivers is in your version of the deck other than to stabilize a bad mana base.  They are mana accelerators and you only have 2 cards in your entire deck that cost more than them.  I'm also not sure that playing slivers just with a bunch of lords and minimal disruption is going to get it done.  I'd strongly suggest something along the lines of this:

4 Predatory Sliver
4 Muscle Sliver
4 Crystalline Sliver

4 Gemhide Sliver
4 Manaweft Sliver
4 Sliver Overlord
4 Sliver Queen
1 Sliver Legion

4 Force of Will
2 Mental Misstep
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk

1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Brass
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Taiga
1 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
1 Forest

It utilizes the power of a vintage mana base along with the mana slivers to throw down the potent 5 mana sliver lords early.  Not many decks have cards in their deck even capable of fighting these lords especially if you've played a crystalline first.  You even still retain 8 of the more traditional 2 mana lords to apply early pressure, although they might be better replaced by a larger toolbox, and you gain the best answer to combo, force of will.

I wanted to try this out since I have Heart Sliver, and 6 mana Slivers: Thorncaster Sliver. With a Crystalline Sliver out it makes him very powerful, it is also a very strong creature to Image.

[msg67183]

I'm not sure what the point of the mana slivers is in your version of the deck other than to stabilize a bad mana base.  They are mana accelerators and you only have 2 cards in your entire deck that cost more than them.  I'm also not sure that playing slivers just with a bunch of lords and minimal disruption is going to get it done.  I'd strongly suggest something along the lines of this:

4 Predatory Sliver
4 Muscle Sliver
4 Crystalline Sliver

4 Gemhide Sliver
4 Manaweft Sliver
4 Sliver Overlord
4 Sliver Queen
1 Sliver Legion

4 Force of Will
2 Mental Misstep
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk

1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Brass
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Taiga
1 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
1 Forest

It utilizes the power of a vintage mana base along with the mana slivers to throw down the potent 5 mana sliver lords early.  Not many decks have cards in their deck even capable of fighting these lords especially if you've played a crystalline first.  You even still retain 8 of the more traditional 2 mana lords to apply early pressure, although they might be better replaced by a larger toolbox, and you gain the best answer to combo, force of will.

I keep going back to this list. I think cutting some Queens, since they are Legendary, adding 1 Basal Sliver and 1 Heart Sliver gives you a combo to just win out of nowhere, plus with an Overlord out, you can then grab every sliver out of your deck and put it into play, along with having a billion sliver tokens to beat with. I really like having "Demonic Tutor" Sliver, it makes the deck very powerful. I actually think you can cut the two mana lords for more control. Just sit back and wait until you just combo out of nowhere. Thoughts?

Edit: Also for budget purposes, the Misty Rainforests can be Verdant Catacombs.

[msg67183]

This is what I have so far:

Slivers:

4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Brass
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Savannah
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Taiga
4 Gemhide Sliver
4 Manaweft Sliver
Black Lotus
Mox Sapphire
Mox Jet
Mox Emerald
Mox Ruby
Mox Pearl

4 Sliver Overlord
2 Sliver Queen
1 Sliver Legion

2 Heart Sliver
2 Basal Sliver

4 Crystalline Sliver

4 Force of Will
4 Mental Misstep
2 Flusterstorm

Ancestral Recall
Time Walk

3 slots left.

[Bill Copes]

This is what I have so far:

Slivers:

4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Brass
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Savannah
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Taiga
4 Gemhide Sliver
4 Manaweft Sliver
Black Lotus
Mox Sapphire
Mox Jet
Mox Emerald
Mox Ruby
Mox Pearl

4 Sliver Overlord
2 Sliver Queen
1 Sliver Legion

2 Heart Sliver
2 Basal Sliver

4 Crystalline Sliver

4 Force of Will
4 Mental Misstep
2 Flusterstorm

Ancestral Recall
Time Walk

3 slots left.

You have no disruption outside of the counters, and the only way to find your combo pieces is to stick an Overlord.  Since colored mana access isn't a problem, perhaps 3 abrupt decay, and cut 2 Sliver Overlords for DT and Vamp?

[msg67183]

I see what you are saying, but what do I really need to Abrupt Decay that Harmonic Sliver won't be able to handle? Sphere effects don't affect my combo once cast, the only creature I can think of is Revoker on Sliver Queen, but Harmonic blows that up. I'm not sure if I want D tutor and V Tutor, since Overlord is essentially uncounterable, so possibly Homing Sliver. With the combo in mind, a one of Necrotic could be cute...

I'm really liking this combo Sliver deck actually. I've considered cutting down on Moxen and adding Null Rods for extra disruption. I've also considered cutting the duals and fetches for more rainbow lands just to make it more affordable.

Thoughts?

[Bill Copes]

I see what you are saying, but what do I really need to Abrupt Decay that Harmonic Sliver won't be able to handle? Sphere effects don't affect my combo once cast, the only creature I can think of is Revoker on Sliver Queen, but Harmonic blows that up. I'm not sure if I want D tutor and V Tutor, since Overlord is essentially uncounterable, so possibly Homing Sliver. With the combo in mind, a one of Necrotic could be cute...

I'm really liking this combo Sliver deck actually. I've considered cutting down on Moxen and adding Null Rods for extra disruption. I've also considered cutting the duals and fetches for more rainbow lands just to make it more affordable.

Thoughts?

Harmonics weren't in the last list you posted.  Unless you somehow always have a cavern in play, can figure out how to cast a sliver at instant speed, and always magically have Harmonic Sliver in play, I fail to see how you plan on dealing with a permanent that owns your deck.

I also fail to see how a 5 mana creature with a 3 mana activated ability is better than 1 or 2 mana spell at finding a card you need ASAP.  What if you need to cast Time Walk to win?  Sliver Overlord does not find time walk.

[msg67183]

I'm not sure if the combo is the best solution but if the combo is being played you won't have access to the infinite combos you would have a haste sliver in play. There is also Root Sliver for uncounterability if needed.

The way I see Slivers being anywhere near viable:

Counters for protection
Disruption in the form of Null Rod / Abrupt Decay
Fast clock

Using these bases what list seems strongest? I think something from vaughnbros list, then tweaked is where to go with it. If there is a Crystalline Sliver out, and an uncounterable "Legend" hits play (Queen, Legion, Overlord) the game is over fast. The combo just seems too cute. I think moving along the lines of tons of Lords Legends and Disruption with Counters is the way to go. What are people's thoughts on that?

[TheWhiteDragon]

I believe the combo is a queen and gemhide with heartSTONE, not heart sliver.

Overall, the deck just blows because it doesn't disrupt and is too slow.  A combo deck can just blow you out as they gold fish for 3 turns.  I tried a version with 4 null rod, and still just got hammered.  I even made infinite slivers one game, but as they had to tap to make each other (with heartstone/gemhide/queen), I had to pass the turn...and then I just got killed before I could attack.  At best, you're looking at turn 4 before you swing for the kill, and you're usually dead by that point vs any competent player.  Combo just pwns slivers, shops can also crush if they start pumping out lodestones, tangles, and metamorphs early, and even fish will just trump your 2/2s with tarmogoyfs and path/plow the queen/overlord.  While I admit slivers are fun, I haven't found the deck they can beat any better than 30% over 20 games.

[msg67183]

I believe the combo is a queen and gemhide with heartSTONE, not heart sliver.

Overall, the deck just blows because it doesn't disrupt and is too slow.  A combo deck can just blow you out as they gold fish for 3 turns.  I tried a version with 4 null rod, and still just got hammered.  I even made infinite slivers one game, but as they had to tap to make each other (with heartstone/gemhide/queen), I had to pass the turn...and then I just got killed before I could attack.  At best, you're looking at turn 4 before you swing for the kill, and you're usually dead by that point vs any competent player.  Combo just pwns slivers, shops can also crush if they start pumping out lodestones, tangles, and metamorphs early, and even fish will just trump your 2/2s with tarmogoyfs and path/plow the queen/overlord.  While I admit slivers are fun, I haven't found the deck they can beat any better than 30% over 20 games.

The combo is Queen + Basal + Gemhide / Manaweft + Heart Sliver. Make a token, tap the token for mana, sac the token for two mana and repeat.

I am not sure how viable the combo is, like I said.

[msg67183]

I've been toying with Slivers and here is what I have as of right now:

Meathooks

4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
Strip Mine
4 Manaweft Sliver
4 Gemhide Sliver

3 Galerider Sliver
3 Heart Sliver
4 Crystalline Sliver

3 Thorncaster Sliver

4 Sinew Sliver
4 Muscle Sliver
4 Predatory Sliver
2 Phantasmal Image

4 Mental Misstep

3 Null Rod
2 Harmonic Sliver

Sideboard:

3 Striking Sliver
4 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Harmonic Sliver
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Swan Song
1 Flusterstorm

I think this list can work out against the meta. Against Combo, you probably lose game one, but have Missteps for the strong one drops they may sling. Against Workshops you set up Harmonic Sliver and try to get lock them out. Against Dredge your board should do well,  landing a Cage, protecting it and then bashing in with big guys should do very well. Against creatures Striking Sliver out of the board will do wonders.

Another card I'm considering is Syphon Sliver. Lifelink is huge against every deck surprisingly.

What are everyone's thoughts?