Dig through Time

[Protoaddict]

Big card leak today, this was one of them:

Dig Through Time 6UU
Instant
Delve (Each card you exile from your graveyard while casting this spell pays for 1.)
Look at the top seven cards of your library. Put two of them into your hand and the rest on the bottom of your library in any order.

I mean that seems like it has a ton of potential to me. Obviously your looking to cast it for UU so its not a first turn card, but its almost reasonable to think this could happen turn 3 in a standard build. Draw 2 from the top 7 and put the rest of the bottom seems VERY strong for a deck fishing for a specific card.

[MaximumCDawg]

While a fine card for Modern, this guy is even less likely than Treasure Cruise to see Vintage play.  Treasure Cruise draws you three cards and can cost as little as U.  There is only one card in all of Magic that does an impersonation of Treasure Cruise's best day, and that's a restricted card that costs Oprah money.

Dig Through Time is a tutor of sorts, one that only looks at the top seven.  There are MANY cards that have a normally superior effect to this at 2 mana or less.  Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, Mystical Tutor, Grim Tutor, Imperial Seal, etc all get you what you want from anywhere in your deck.  Heck, even Ancestral Memories digs deeper, though the cards don't get into your hand right away.

Because there are many fine cards that do what Dig Through Time does for the same or less mana even on Dig's BEST DAY, I don't think it's a contender.

[zeus-online]

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[MaximumCDawg]

Yeah, Impulse is another comparator.  This card is like casting Impulse twice in a row, almost.

It's not so much that Dig is bad, but look at what kind of slot in the deck you would want for this.  What is Dig's role?  Drawing two cards for two mana is not tremendously exciting.  I think you're right that that role is like Impulse; a dig card.  A card to blow past the chaff and get what you want.  That's essentially a tutor.  And there is LOTS of competition for cards that fill that role in Vintage and do not have the conditionality of Delve.  That's why I'm down on this card.

Look at it another way.  Can you come up with a deck that would not be made better by replacing all of the copies of Dig with various tutors or other dig cards?  Legacy High Tide (Again!) might want this effect in mono-blue, so maybe that is a place, but that deck hardly needs more inconsistency.

[Vennie]

Also If you want to tutor 2 cards isn't gifts better then this?

[zeus-online]

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[Protoaddict]

Yeah, Impulse is another comparator.  This card is like casting Impulse twice in a row, almost.

It's not so much that Dig is bad, but look at what kind of slot in the deck you would want for this.  What is Dig's role?  Drawing two cards for two mana is not tremendously exciting.  I think you're right that that role is like Impulse; a dig card.  A card to blow past the chaff and get what you want.  That's essentially a tutor.  And there is LOTS of competition for cards that fill that role in Vintage and do not have the conditionality of Delve.  That's why I'm down on this card.

Look at it another way.  Can you come up with a deck that would not be made better by replacing all of the copies of Dig with various tutors or other dig cards?  Legacy High Tide (Again!) might want this effect in mono-blue, so maybe that is a place, but that deck hardly needs more inconsistency.

No, but i didn't say that i thought it was good in vintage. I said that i thought it was better than Treasure cruise (In vintage).
If you look at my comments on the treasure cruise thread, you will see that i don't think that card is any good in vintage.

I would much much rather have the best 2 of 7 than 3 random cards. But i am not really willing to nuke my graveyard to do so, or for that matter wait until i have the mana/cards to cast this card.
These two cards are probably fine if the game goes late, but so would all the other card draw cards that i am not willing to play.

This can cost 2 with what is printed on the card and beat spheres, gifts cannot.

Gifts is also restricted, so if you need more similar effects you have this. Plus gifts can be used to power delve on this in some scenarios.

I'm thinking about this card the same way we were thinking about treasure cruise, in delver. Gifts does not fit that deck at all because of the CMC and because the deck does not run combos for gifts to pull out. Would I rather pay U for 3 in that deck, or UU for best 2 of 7 but also at instant speed? I think Instant speed wins that argument.

[PETER FLUGZEUG]

Yeah, Impulse is another comparator.  This card is like casting Impulse twice in a row, almost.
Drawing two cards for two mana is not tremendously exciting.  I think you're right that that role is like Impulse; a dig card.  A card to blow past the chaff and get what you want.

Well, drawing two cards for two mana is certainly exciting (see night's whisper etc.) but at instant speed it's even more exciting. If you compare this effect to fact or fiction's: fact usually draws you two or three cards out of the top 5, divided into the least synergistic piles, for 4 mana.

This card draws you the best two out of 7 cards, which is usually about 1/7 of your deck. If you remove 4 cards for it, you're casting it at 2UU.
a very good effect for a reasonable price. Now, the delve cost itself, the conditionality is the problem here, as with treasure hunt. You need to have 4-6 cards in your graveyard and be willing to exile them. The card will have to be tested.

[mmcgeach]

It looks like it might be fine in mono-blue control decks, for example, the winning deck here:  http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=46761.0

That deck doesn't use its graveyard, so delve is a fine cost.  The deck is also blue, so it can't use black tutors.  IDK, I mean, this card still says it costs EIGHT MANA, but, you know, maybe.

[ben_berry]

What do you think of this as a counter to DRS.

[DubDub]

Dig Through Time can chain with itself, finding another card and another Dig Through Time to set up a perfect game plan. The second copy already has a reduced cost because of the copy of Dig Through Time in our graveyard and the other spell found.

Link

Dig Through Time 6UU
Instant
Delve (Each card you exile from your graveyard while casting this spell pays for 1.)
Look at the top seven cards of your library. Put two of them into your hand and the rest on the bottom of your library in any order.

Have the guts to print a card that actually fills up the graveyard.  If it has Delve and puts five cards into the graveyard, then you can tell me that it combos with itself.  This card?  This does not combo with itself.

I can't wait to play with this card... in EDH.

[fsecco]

I, for one, think this is way better than Treasure Cruise. It's an instant, so paying something like 2UU or 1UU for it is not unreasonable. And man, digging for SEVEN cards is something very, very good. This could be a 1-of easily in several decks. Decks that use FoF, for example, benefit a lot from delve and cards like this. I like it a lot.

Oh, and here's the image:

[Protoaddict]

Would it be crazy for me to think that with all the delve blue draw stuff we just got plus what blue already has, some sort of hightide storm deck would not be unheard of in vintage? Or just some sorta blue beltcher?

[fsecco]

My Johnny side is still thinking about control decks with Bazaar of Baghdad to fill for delve...

EDIT: also, wouldn't this or Treasure Cruise work well in Oath control decks? I mean, after Oath activates, this is pretty easy to pay for.

[DubDub]

Would it be crazy for me to think that with all the delve blue draw stuff we just got plus what blue already has, some sort of hightide storm deck would not be unheard of in vintage? Or just some sorta blue beltcher?

Yes that's crazy.

My Johnny side is still thinking about control decks with Bazaar of Baghdad to fill for delve...

EDIT: also, wouldn't this or Treasure Cruise work well in Oath control decks? I mean, after Oath activates, this is pretty easy to pay for.

After Oath activates Griselbrand activates... don't need to clutter up the decklist with a double-Impluse that's best when you're winning.  Oath almost always wants improvements for pre-Oath and resolving Oath.  Improvements post-Oath are basically in the creatures themselves, not utility cards.

[Protoaddict]

Grissle is not the only oath target. A card like this could encourage players to go back to Emrakul/Dragons Breath. Resolve oath, get emrakul breath, 2 mana allows you to dig 7 cards in for force of wills/misdirections to ensure you connect, and then you have pretty much won.

[DubDub]

Grissle is not the only oath target. A card like this could encourage players to go back to Emrakul/Dragons Breath. Resolve oath, get emrakul breath, 2 mana allows you to dig 7 cards in for force of wills/misdirections to ensure you connect, and then you have pretty much won.

Good luck with that.  When you're testing it out make sure you test Impulse in the same slot.  I'm pretty sure that Impulse would prove better in a majority of games since it's useful pre-Oath and has similar if less powerful use post-Oath.

[boggyb]

Note it has strong synergy with a certain cluster of cards that have strong synergy already:

Accumulated Knowledge
Fact or Fiction
Intuition
Gifts Ungiven
Thirst For Knowledge
Snapcaster Mage

..and all the blue cantrips. This deck trope has been floating around the metagame for a while, though it's never really caught fire. Does this push that over the edge, at all? At the very least, this seems like an excellent 1-of for Intuition or Gifts to find. Same goes for Treasure Cruise.

[Protoaddict]

Keep in mind that if your playing this card is digging you deeper than all those other psudeo tutors.

Fact or fiction and Gifts, your opponent can affect the piles which CAN cut you out of combos you needed. If vault and key are in your top pile you will not get it with FoF or gifts, you will have to rescue it from the yard. This is also potentially cheaper and can beat spheres.

Thirst does not dig you as deep and always costs 3, not potentially 2, though this probably combos well with thirst.

This card is the only one in the list with the potential to grab you 2 force of wills for 2 mana. It will also never give you a blightsteel if you don't want it like pure draw will. I think this card has absolute potential.

[Saya]

omg this is far better than treasure cruise.

[JarofFortune]

omg this is far better than treasure cruise.

In the right shell, treasure cruise can be much better than this card.

[Twiedel]

Made my statement on the cruise already, and I think this card is really much better by being instant alone.

I think this might be played as a one-of in a deck that doesn't ever want to use the graveyard. Unfortunately, stuff like random GY removal and especially Deathrite Shaman could make this a dead draw as the Graveyard is chewed on consistently. And please don't underestimate the cost of not using your own graveyard. If you happen to play a deck that doesn't use it anyway, you are safe, but building around this could easily put constraints that will hurt you more than this card could benefit. It is not broken - it is just a solid way to replenish a bit later in the game.

The comparison with Fact is actually pretty close - apart from Fact or Fiction being one of the most fun and flashy cards to play! And the fact that you can chain facts, which you cannot with Dig.

[MTGFan]

If you cast this at UU, it's a reasonably strong card. But requiring 6 cards in your graveyard to cast this at an efficient cost... is asking alot, even for eternal formats. You most definitely won't be casting this earlier than turn 3 very often in most decks.

[zeus-online]

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[JarofFortune]

I used tombstalker as a sideboard card in Bug delver, and it did its job pretty well. The delve was not much of a problem, and rarely interfered with Tarmogoyf. However, I only took the deck to one tournament because it had some problems with commonly played cards. It would not
fit in your average combo control shell, however.

[MaximumCDawg]

Has tombstalker seen any play in vintage?

Never played against it, but it might be a way to evaluate the casting cost.

Tombstalker comes down off two fetches and a Dark Ritual.  That's huge, and makes him a reliable turn 2 play.  Since there is no Blue Ritual, you can't really do that kind of thing with Dig.

[Protoaddict]

The thing with Delve is unless you build your deck around the mechanic and card (like tombstalker in a deck full of rituals and fetches) you cannot really use it as the core mechanic, because the costs prevent you from using other delve cards. Tombstalker was like the perfect storm of playability in its lists because of that. I could imagine that trample monkey may sit in that same spot because its hits the same notes but for less mana.

With this card, I would never imagine running 4 of them because the costs would be like your whole deck, but the effect is powerful enough that I could see running maybe up to 2 if I had No use for the yard otherwise, A way to fill the yard reliably, and a need to fish specific types of cards.

[Grand Inquisitor]

The thing with Delve is unless you build your deck around the mechanic and card

Bingo.  None of these cards are likely to take because medium-brokeness draw/search is not what's missing for most decks.  Hell, we have unrestricted Gush, what are people looking for?  If you take the slots needed both for this card and for the fetches and cheaper cantrips needed to support it you don't have much room left to beat Dredge and Shops and stop other blue decks.

Ie, the competition for this isn't FoF or Impulse, it's stuff like Gush and Timetwister.

[Oath of Happy]

Jesus, another bomb for big blue. I think everyone is grossly undervaluing these cards. I'm not sure which one is better but they are both way better than cards where you have to pay a lot of mana like Gifts, FOF, and Scrying. The effect is not even close to Impulse. If Impulse drew you 2 out if the 4 it would have been restricted way long ago. After life points, cards in the graveyard are by far the most expendable resources. I think everyone is underestimating how fast graveyards fill up. Casting this EOT for UU and then main phasing Cruise for U is not even far fetched.

[MaximumCDawg]

Jesus, another bomb for big blue. I think everyone is grossly undervaluing these cards. I'm not sure which one is better but they are both way better than cards where you have to pay a lot of mana like Gifts, FOF, and Scrying. The effect is not even close to Impulse. If Impulse drew you 2 out if the 4 it would have been restricted way long ago. After life points, cards in the graveyard are by far the most expendable resources. I think everyone is underestimating how fast graveyards fill up. Casting this EOT for UU and then main phasing Cruise for U is not even far fetched.

That's the thing.  These are potentially late-game mega bombs the same way that Ancestral Recall and Demonic Tutor are, but they're constructed in a way that makes them unable to function in the early game.  We're all wrestling with whether that makes them playable or not.