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Author Topic: Magic Online Power Nine Owners  (Read 46594 times)
Brick Novax
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« Reply #90 on: November 14, 2014, 03:35:36 pm »

Wizards removing the workweek daily events has actually seemed to be a boon for tournement players, as the dailies are firing again with some regularity. I have no direct concern with the dailies failing to fire as I have yet to try to play in one in the four months since buying in, but I am worried about dwindling interest in Vintage on MTGO. I don't really care what the price for Power is as I assumed I was never going to get my money back, and I was okay with that as long as I could play Vintage as frequently as I want. I still don't have troubles finding games regularly, but I have noticed reduced traffic in the tournament practice room. I hope falling prices along with the holiday Vintage tournement will inspire more people to explore vintage.

I wanted to respond to your last sentence more specifically. While "soul searching" strikes me as somewhat over dramatic for discussing something as mundane as spending money on a game, I think it is valid to ask what someone wants from their MTGO experience. If the answer is to have fun playing a digital version of a very fun game, I would still strongly recommend buying in. As I am not been playing for prizes any bugs I have encountered have been meaningless. If a user wants to play for prizes (as nominal as the are for DEs) then all the well documented shortcomings of the platform have real consequenses, and a potential user needs to question whether they can tolerate these problems or if they will outweigh the enjoyment they will get from playing the game.

Was my use of "soul searching" overly dramatic? Without a doubt it was. As you stated, I really just wanted to convey to someone who was thinking of buying in to really think about what they wanted to get out of it. Perhaps I did a poor job of clearly stating why "Vintage on MTGO is still like playing anything on MTGO, except worse". MTGO is what it is. For all of it's short comings it's still a way to play MTG and I can live with MTGO in it's current state.

A lack of traffic in the tournament practice room, dwindling interest in vintage, and daily events relegated to only the weekends that still only fire with some regularity doesn't exactly equate to a boon for tournament players. It is however a big part of the concerns I have had with buying into the format via MTGO. What I wanted was to experience the vintage format. While you could argue that I have achieved that, unfortunately for me the tournament practice room has had a noticeable drop off in activity for vintage games and it's getting increasingly difficult to find more than 1 or 2 games with a different opponent a night. Like you, I am also not a "tournament player", but I have been willing to spend tickets on the dailies in order to get exposure to the format since I have none up till this point.

With Vintage being a somewhat niche format with a small community when compared to the other main formats, MTGO should in theory should make it easier to consistently find a Vintage tournament or a pickup game. Getting to play on a regular basis at first and see the player base erode away in the month that I have been playing the format is downright depressing. That is what has been extremely disheartening for me. That is why I would not recommend someone buying in. Without VMA or some other Vintage product to push, I fear WoTC isn't going to do much else to keep the format going other than putting it on life support which they have already done. I suppose I don't exactly regret "buying in", but with the experience I've had so far and the current outlook for vintage on MTGO, it does make me wish I would have used that money towards "buying in" for RL power instead. I'd probably get to play in about as many tournaments as I do now anyways.

I have found an amazing format with an equally amazing player base. I have not had anything but enjoyable interactions with anyone that I have encountered which I definitely can't say about the other formats. Vintage is amazing and like you said, hopefully the Winter Celebration helps promote the format so others get to experience how awesome Vintage truly is. Smile
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hashswag
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« Reply #91 on: November 14, 2014, 06:32:45 pm »

it's getting increasingly difficult to find more than 1 or 2 games with a different opponent a night.

Wow, really? I'm in Australia and, despite being awake while all the Americans are sleeping, I rarely have to wait for longer than 5 minutes for a game.
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Tharizdun
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« Reply #92 on: November 16, 2014, 07:02:24 am »

Quote
soul searching

To each his own. I had to do some soul searching when I decided to abandon my MTGO acct and again basically years back when I quit playing live. I had a considerable emotional/social investment into MTG (still do) and quitting those things that I loved to do was very hard for me.

Things that I did with ease, Join the Army, fight in combat, get married, have kids… none of this stuff was a "soul searching" event for me but for most people I think it would be the case… I will say that having kids is enlightening for me and a happy occasion every day BUT it was easy to do.

I think someone shouldn't criticize what another person finds to be some "soul searching" occasion...
« Last Edit: November 16, 2014, 07:06:10 am by Tharizdun » Logged
enderfall
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« Reply #93 on: November 16, 2014, 10:07:18 am »

That is why I would not recommend someone buying in. Without VMA or some other Vintage product to push, I fear WoTC isn't going to do much else to keep the format going other than putting it on life support which they have already done.

That can't be farther from the truth. If WotC truly did not care about Vintage on MTGO at all, then they wouldn't have made the Winter Festival. This kind of fear mongering is what is driving people away, not the actual reality of the situation. Is Vintage online better than playing in paper? Well, in certain respects it is, and in other respects it isn't. Maybe everyone's expectations of Vintage on MTGO were too high to begin with. Playing Vintage any time of the day against an actual opponent and occasionally playing for prizes seems like a pretty good offer to me. If you were expecting some "Vintage Champs" level of organized play each and every day, then I'm sure MTGO is a massive disappointment.

However, compared to the highly compartmentalized paper game where you might have the opportunity to place once a month with cards that cost multiple times more than their online equivalent while also possibly driving hours to get there, MTGO seems like a great alternative. To each their own, I guess.
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Brick Novax
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« Reply #94 on: November 16, 2014, 11:57:12 pm »

If WotC truly did not care about Vintage on MTGO at all, then they wouldn't have made the Winter Festival. This kind of fear mongering is what is driving people away, not the actual reality of the situation.

It couldn't be farther from the truth.... You do realize that the VMA draft format is also conveniently coming back. WoTC again has product to push and an upcoming World Championship that is featuring none other than the VMA draft format. What better way to entice the people on MTGO to draft VMA again for the Worlds players practice than to have a big Vintage event after World's for us common folk.

I'm not "fear mongering". It's a legit concern.

I really appreciate you taking the time to actually read my earlier replies. If you had, you would have surely read that I never once stated I was "expecting some "Vintage Champs level of organized play each and every day". Perhaps you were spending more time thinking of ways to hurl thinly veiled insults at my expense than address my actual disappointment with buying in and why I would advise against it. I just wanted to experience vintage. I can't afford to buy paper power so MTGO seemed like a great option for me. If I could do it over again, I would have just put that money into paper. I've only been playing vintage for 1 month. I've only been playing on MTGO for 1 month. In that month I went from being able to play plenty of vintage games at my leisure, to playing 1 or 2 games against a DIFFERENT person in as many hours a night.

How is any of that helping to drive people away?
What did I do?
I'm sorry that my mere presence is enough to offend so many people and stop them from playing vintage on MTGO. What can I do to help bring them back?

I'd still only get to play in as many paper tournaments as I do now with MTGO, which is a nice way of saying I would get to play in just about zero. Don't get me wrong, I am genuinely excited that WoTC is having the Winter Holiday Festival Event. What ever it takes, just as long as I get to play some Vintage.
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enderfall
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« Reply #95 on: November 17, 2014, 05:33:48 pm »

If WotC truly did not care about Vintage on MTGO at all, then they wouldn't have made the Winter Festival. This kind of fear mongering is what is driving people away, not the actual reality of the situation.

It couldn't be farther from the truth.... You do realize that the VMA draft format is also conveniently coming back. WoTC again has product to push and an upcoming World Championship that is featuring none other than the VMA draft format. What better way to entice the people on MTGO to draft VMA again for the Worlds players practice than to have a big Vintage event after World's for us common folk.

I'm not "fear mongering". It's a legit concern.

I really appreciate you taking the time to actually read my earlier replies. If you had, you would have surely read that I never once stated I was "expecting some "Vintage Champs level of organized play each and every day". Perhaps you were spending more time thinking of ways to hurl thinly veiled insults at my expense than address my actual disappointment with buying in and why I would advise against it. I just wanted to experience vintage. I can't afford to buy paper power so MTGO seemed like a great option for me. If I could do it over again, I would have just put that money into paper. I've only been playing vintage for 1 month. I've only been playing on MTGO for 1 month. In that month I went from being able to play plenty of vintage games at my leisure, to playing 1 or 2 games against a DIFFERENT person in as many hours a night.

How is any of that helping to drive people away?
What did I do?
I'm sorry that my mere presence is enough to offend so many people and stop them from playing vintage on MTGO. What can I do to help bring them back?

I'd still only get to play in as many paper tournaments as I do now with MTGO, which is a nice way of saying I would get to play in just about zero. Don't get me wrong, I am genuinely excited that WoTC is having the Winter Holiday Festival Event. What ever it takes, just as long as I get to play some Vintage.

Sigh. You do realize that VMA coming back is just WotC's standard SOP on MTGO, don't you? They did the exact same thing last year with Modern Masters. In fact, they did it MULTIPLE times. I can't fathom any reasonable argument that bringing back VMA for a short period of time is bad for Vintage in any way. What exactly is your negativitey towards it? It seems to me that it can only help, and if nothing else, it maintains the status quo.

I can't explain why you think you are only playing against 1-2 different people when you try to play Vintage. I, and many others, don't seem to have that problem.

Also, Vintage tournaments are firing on the weekend with regularity over the last 3-4 weeks. Is playing on the weekends not an option for you? To say that there are "about zero" tournaments is patently false unless you are unavailable on the weekends.

Also,

Quote
How is any of that helping to drive people away?
What did I do?

You clearly said you would not recommend people to buy in to Vintage on MTGO, so yeah, you are driving people away. It's your opinion, no doubt, but the chorus of negativity from countless other people collectively contribute to people not playing. You can complain and tell people to not play, or you can be supportive and encourage people to play so that you can have more than 1-2 people to play against. Just an idea.

Overall, though, it seems the general public opinion is that WotC is actively trying to kill Vintage. I find that laughable. If they wanted to "kill Vintage", they would just actually kill it, not come up with this long drawn out contrived plan that tin foil hat wearing people believe they are doing. They have no reason to benefit from not having Vintage active in some form. Yes, they made most of their money already through VMA, but they can still make money by having a vibrant Vintage scene. The Winter Festival is the exact demonstration of their interest in that endeavor. I just can't understand why anyone thinks it's bad for Vintage. Guess you can't appease everyone...
« Last Edit: November 17, 2014, 05:45:17 pm by enderfall » Logged
Coopes
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« Reply #96 on: November 17, 2014, 08:45:11 pm »

If WotC truly did not care about Vintage on MTGO at all, then they wouldn't have made the Winter Festival. This kind of fear mongering is what is driving people away, not the actual reality of the situation.

It couldn't be farther from the truth.... You do realize that the VMA draft format is also conveniently coming back. WoTC again has product to push and an upcoming World Championship that is featuring none other than the VMA draft format. What better way to entice the people on MTGO to draft VMA again for the Worlds players practice than to have a big Vintage event after World's for us common folk.

I'm not "fear mongering". It's a legit concern.

I really appreciate you taking the time to actually read my earlier replies. If you had, you would have surely read that I never once stated I was "expecting some "Vintage Champs level of organized play each and every day". Perhaps you were spending more time thinking of ways to hurl thinly veiled insults at my expense than address my actual disappointment with buying in and why I would advise against it. I just wanted to experience vintage. I can't afford to buy paper power so MTGO seemed like a great option for me. If I could do it over again, I would have just put that money into paper. I've only been playing vintage for 1 month. I've only been playing on MTGO for 1 month. In that month I went from being able to play plenty of vintage games at my leisure, to playing 1 or 2 games against a DIFFERENT person in as many hours a night.

How is any of that helping to drive people away?
What did I do?
I'm sorry that my mere presence is enough to offend so many people and stop them from playing vintage on MTGO. What can I do to help bring them back?

I'd still only get to play in as many paper tournaments as I do now with MTGO, which is a nice way of saying I would get to play in just about zero. Don't get me wrong, I am genuinely excited that WoTC is having the Winter Holiday Festival Event. What ever it takes, just as long as I get to play some Vintage.

Sigh. You do realize that VMA coming back is just WotC's standard SOP on MTGO, don't you? They did the exact same thing last year with Modern Masters. In fact, they did it MULTIPLE times. I can't fathom any reasonable argument that bringing back VMA for a short period of time is bad for Vintage in any way. What exactly is your negativitey towards it? It seems to me that it can only help, and if nothing else, it maintains the status quo.

I can't explain why you think you are only playing against 1-2 different people when you try to play Vintage. I, and many others, don't seem to have that problem.

Also, Vintage tournaments are firing on the weekend with regularity over the last 3-4 weeks. Is playing on the weekends not an option for you? To say that there are "about zero" tournaments is patently false unless you are unavailable on the weekends.

Also,

Quote
How is any of that helping to drive people away?
What did I do?

You clearly said you would not recommend people to buy in to Vintage on MTGO, so yeah, you are driving people away. It's your opinion, no doubt, but the chorus of negativity from countless other people collectively contribute to people not playing. You can complain and tell people to not play, or you can be supportive and encourage people to play so that you can have more than 1-2 people to play against. Just an idea.

Overall, though, it seems the general public opinion is that WotC is actively trying to kill Vintage. I find that laughable. If they wanted to "kill Vintage", they would just actually kill it, not come up with this long drawn out contrived plan that tin foil hat wearing people believe they are doing. They have no reason to benefit from not having Vintage active in some form. Yes, they made most of their money already through VMA, but they can still make money by having a vibrant Vintage scene. The Winter Festival is the exact demonstration of their interest in that endeavor. I just can't understand why anyone thinks it's bad for Vintage. Guess you can't appease everyone...

There's more I want to comment on in here, but I've kind of beaten this stuff to death with my posts everywhere. The Vintage tournament is far better EV for wizards than it is for any player. Feels like VMA/Vintage gave them the best opportunity for gains end of year.

"You can complain and tell people to not play, or you can be supportive and encourage people to play so that you can have more than 1-2 people to play against. Just an idea."

Unfortunately, I cannot in good conscience recommend Vintage mtgo to anyone in its current state right now, and to tell them I think it would be worth it would be an entire lie. The fact of the matter is, Vintage is a TINY part of magic, thinking or hoping it will get the same support as standard/modern/legacy or even payouts/schedule adjustments/priorities is kind of silly imo. And the reason why I see this whole " VMA IS COMING BACK! " thing as a complete joke, it looks like behind the curtains it's got to be nothing more than a way to boost end of the year $ to look good for next q.

Also, I still find it laughable that our only option to play is on the weekends. I for one will not invest for such a limited time frame of play ability...that is not enough time for me to feel the invest is worth it. I was invested in Vintage from the start of release online and have felt a large pull back ever since then. Could you argue this " fear mongering " is what is driving people away? Sure, but this kind of stuff NEEDS to be said in my opinion. Most people here don't realize the complexity or countless blunders/lies wotc/worth made re: VMA/Vintage.

Did they make a lot of money off VMA? Sure, and now they want more. If they can get people to buy into legacy/vintage for this tournament and/or draft for some cards, even for a few days--job well done on their side. They accomplished their goal..
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« Reply #97 on: November 17, 2014, 09:09:53 pm »

The worst part about cockatrice is having to watch everything like a hawk to keep people from either being dishonest or making rule mistakes. I find mtgo so much more enjoyable for casual play not having to worry about that.

Agreed 100%. The only reason I play 'practice' matches is because the 2 mans are awful EV and as a result, I have a much harder time getting an opponent. The couple of times I've streamed vintage, I'll join both queues and drop from one when the other gets a match. I almost always end up playing the free games.

That being said, I'm getting a little frustrated with occasionally playing against what could best be described as casual decks. When you're playing 3/3s for 4 and I'm storming off, neither of us gets to have much fun. Leave the Tournament Practice room and go to the Just for fun room, imo.
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« Reply #98 on: November 17, 2014, 10:23:22 pm »

thinking or hoping it will get the same support as standard/modern/legacy or even payouts/schedule adjustments/priorities is kind of silly imo.

To the best of my knowledge, vintage is in fact the only format that they've made schedule adjustments to in the hopes of making the dailies fire again. Say what you will about whether they took the correct line, but thinking Wizards isn't trying to make MTGO Vintage viable is confirmation bias at this point.

If you think MTGO is a garbage piece of software and refuse to use it, fine, but Wizards does care about Vintage online.
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Smmenen
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« Reply #99 on: November 17, 2014, 10:29:21 pm »

Yeah, I don't understand some of the remarks here either. 

Is Magic Online a perfect product?

No.

Does Magic Online have some bugs? 

yes.

Have many of the bugs been corrected?

Yes.

Is the interface ideal?

No.  But it's at least as good as the freeware stuff.

Most importantly: is Magic Online a good, efficient way to playtest Vintage?

Yes.

Is Magic Online inexpensive to buy into Vintage?

Right now, I think the answer is yes. 

I don't see the issue.   Why would anyone need to search their soul whether to recommend the product to serious Vintage players?  Magic Online gives players more places to play Vintage. 
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« Reply #100 on: November 17, 2014, 10:34:47 pm »

thinking or hoping it will get the same support as standard/modern/legacy or even payouts/schedule adjustments/priorities is kind of silly imo.

To the best of my knowledge, vintage is in fact the only format that they've made schedule adjustments to in the hopes of making the dailies fire again. Say what you will about whether they took the correct line, but thinking Wizards isn't trying to make MTGO Vintage viable is confirmation bias at this point.

If you think MTGO is a garbage piece of software and refuse to use it, fine, but Wizards does care about Vintage online.

lol..your statement is in and of itself bias. "They changed something, therefore they care".

I have my opinion and I've made it, I won't clog up this thread or any other with more statements from here on out.
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yugular
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« Reply #101 on: November 18, 2014, 12:49:47 pm »

Im really glad about the opportunity to finally play Vintage and mtgo is the one and only place for me to get to know the format. So far I only own 7/9 of the P9 though.
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MaximumCDawg
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« Reply #102 on: November 18, 2014, 02:43:15 pm »

Is Magic Online inexpensive to buy into Vintage?

Right now, I think the answer is yes. 

This depends entirely on your baseline.  It's thousands of dollars to buy a set of Vintage staples on MTGO.  That's better than the TENS OF THOUSANDS to buy it in paper, but it's still an insane thing to do when other computer games cost you nowhere near this amount.
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The Atog Lord
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« Reply #103 on: November 18, 2014, 02:55:09 pm »

Buying into MODO Vintage is quite expensive. I have about 2K in digital ``cards'' for playing Vintage. Yes, this is much cheaper than buying into paper cards. On the other hand, buying the paper cards means that you actually own the cards. Further, paper Power has been much less volatile.
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« Reply #104 on: November 18, 2014, 03:21:08 pm »

Buying into MODO Vintage is quite expensive. I have about 2K in digital ``cards'' for playing Vintage. Yes, this is much cheaper than buying into paper cards. On the other hand, buying the paper cards means that you actually own the cards. Further, paper Power has been much less volatile.

It's only much cheaper than Paper cards if you're under the assumption that you have to immediately play without any proxies. In most places there are 10,15 or even unlimited proxy events with regularity. Vintage Championships and GenCon are the two large US Vintage Tournaments where you cannot use proxies, but other than that proxies are a viable solution, at least in the short term.

For instance, if you take out Black Lotus (1), Ancestral Recall (2), Mox Sapphire (3), Time Walk (4), Mox Ruby (5), 3 Volcanic Island (6-8), 1 Tropical Island (9) you are left with an affordable and extremely viable Vintage UR(g) Delver deck. Sure, Forces and fetches are not cheap, but with 10 proxies the deck is not outrageously expensive. More proxies obviously help to lower the price.
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« Reply #105 on: November 18, 2014, 05:10:34 pm »

"You can complain and tell people to not play, or you can be supportive and encourage people to play so that you can have more than 1-2 people to play against. Just an idea."

Unfortunately, I cannot in good conscience recommend Vintage mtgo to anyone in its current state right now, and to tell them I think it would be worth it would be an entire lie.

To be clear, I'm not advocating people to buy in now, but rather to encourage those that already play to either keep playing or start playing again. By actively telling people to not buy, it diminishes the community which leads to more people selling. It's a downward spiral that has been going on for almost 3 months now.

The point is that Brix complained that he only played against 1-2 people at a time. If that really is a concern, there are ways to help alleviate that problem. TMD is a wonderful community, and I guarantee if you make an effort to find a "play group" you can easily play against more than 1-2 people.
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Smmenen
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« Reply #106 on: November 18, 2014, 05:57:10 pm »

Buying into MODO Vintage is quite expensive. I have about 2K in digital ``cards'' for playing Vintage. Yes, this is much cheaper than buying into paper cards. On the other hand, buying the paper cards means that you actually own the cards. Further, paper Power has been much less volatile.

Is that the price you bought in with, or is that the current value of your collection?

The prices of cards have fallen so much, I'm skeptical that it costs $2K to buy into Vintage right now. 



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« Reply #107 on: November 18, 2014, 06:21:25 pm »

That was the buy in price. Prices have, of course, dropped.
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« Reply #108 on: November 18, 2014, 07:26:48 pm »

Second P9 assembled for trade/so that friends can borrow and play competitive or practise agains me Very Happy ...

-Jyri-
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« Reply #109 on: November 18, 2014, 09:14:55 pm »

My main concern is the sudden lack of people to play against. I think I have said this multiple times now. I surprisingly like many other of the people on this forum am busy during the weekends doing various activities that don't involve sitting in front of a computer. So yes I rarely get to play in the weekend dailies. It doesn't help that WoTC has decided for me what is the "ideal" time for me to play in the dailies on either day.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this one.
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« Reply #110 on: November 18, 2014, 09:39:18 pm »

My main concern is the sudden lack of people to play against. I think I have said this multiple times now. I surprisingly like many other of the people on this forum am busy during the weekends doing various activities that don't involve sitting in front of a computer. So yes I rarely get to play in the weekend dailies. It doesn't help that WoTC has decided for me what is the "ideal" time for me to play in the dailies on either day.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this one.

The most people that joined a DE during the weekdays after September was probably about 8 people exactly 1 time. WotC "may have decided" for you, but in actuality, the entire community did that by never showing up for weekday events in the first place. I suspect most people have zero interest playing until ~1:00am in the morning on a workday (for those on the East Coast, at least).
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Smmenen
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« Reply #111 on: November 21, 2014, 08:50:23 pm »

Playing online tournaments is a huge inconvenience and difficulty for me.  I basically can't devote 3+ hours to any event on a weekday, and I can only devote so many Saturday or Sundays to Magic in a calendar year.

So, I never really had interest, and still have little interest, in daily events.  A 4 round tournament is not appealing to me when I could do 1-2 two person queues instead. 

The awesome thing about Vintage on Magic Online is testing and getting pickup games against quality opponents.  I think the idea of having a few great, marquee tournaments a year is awesome, as those are things I can try to put into my schedule. 





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« Reply #112 on: November 21, 2014, 08:52:30 pm »

I think the idea of having a few great, marquee tournaments a year is awesome, as those are things I can try to put into my schedule. 

I've been trying to advocate this to Mike Turian and our first taste is the Winter Festival. Hopefully all the Vintage players embrace it so that we can continue to see similar events like this in the future.
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« Reply #113 on: November 22, 2014, 10:45:54 pm »

I've been on mtgo for about a month now, various times (night  during the day late), and can't remember more than once having to wait more than a few minutes for a game. Yes, you see a lot of the same faces. But what a great way to get 30min of vintage in with no hassle.
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« Reply #114 on: November 24, 2014, 08:09:04 am »

Very wise words here.

Thankfully, I get enough fun out of just playing for free in the Tournament Practice room to justify the costs.

You could have done this on Cockatrice for free.

I could have, but I didn't.   Which says a lot about the quality of play (and players) on Cockatrice (and all it's progenitors) because MTGO is a terrible program.
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« Reply #115 on: November 24, 2014, 03:53:36 pm »

Very wise words here.

Thankfully, I get enough fun out of just playing for free in the Tournament Practice room to justify the costs.

You could have done this on Cockatrice for free.

I could have, but I didn't.   Which says a lot about the quality of play (and players) on Cockatrice (and all it's progenitors) because MTGO is a terrible program.

Cockatrice is a far superior program to MTGO, I honestly wonder what version of Cockatrice you last tried. Yes most of it is manual as opposed to automated (keeping track of floating Mana, Storm, phases etc etc) which is arguably superior considering you have to do it manually in live play as well.

Cockatrice is full of shitlords but so is MTGO, my pro tip is to play with people you actually know which happens to be a relatively easy feat and seems to be what most people do over MTGO for testing.

To me the only real difference at this point is that I don't play for garbage prize support on someone else's time, get lied to by WotC, have to put up with an increasingly obsolete and neglected program (compared to Cockatrice which is updated almost monthly), and invest money into non corporal intellectual property of a corporation.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2014, 04:15:17 pm by Commandant » Logged

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« Reply #116 on: November 26, 2014, 09:41:10 am »

Cockatrice is a far superior program to MTGO

MTGO is thousands of times more complicated than Cockatrice. Making an interface you can drag and drop pictures of cards into is trivial compared to the amount of work that would go into automating play like on MTGO. Cockatrice might be fast and relatively bug-free, but it's an apples and oranges situation.
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« Reply #117 on: November 26, 2014, 09:54:50 am »

I think that if they have Vintage Leagues, it should have a positive impact on the format.

Hopefully the entrance fee is not insane and you can make it back with a 2-3 'ish record.  I want to play vintage and having something on the line helps, but throwing down $2 every time I want to play an actual game against an actual deck turns me off.

Ideally you would get in 10-20 games for ~$10 and make back at least $8 (2 packs) on a 40% win rate.

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« Reply #118 on: November 26, 2014, 04:47:17 pm »

Cockatrice is a far superior program to MTGO

MTGO is thousands of times more complicated than Cockatrice. Making an interface you can drag and drop pictures of cards into is trivial compared to the amount of work that would go into automating play like on MTGO. Cockatrice might be fast and relatively bug-free, but it's an apples and oranges situation.

I'm still waiting for the positives.
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« Reply #119 on: November 26, 2014, 05:22:38 pm »

The positives are that it would be a total mess if official tournaments with money on the line were held on cockatrice, where rules are down to the players, rather than highly sophisticated rule checking systems. It's an incredibly difficult thing to program, with dozens of checks to be done every time a move is made, so we have to accept that it's obviously going to be much slower and more buggy than cockatrice. You can't compare the two programs at all. They are completely different in purpose, functionality and level of complexity.
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