[DKT] Dragonlord Ojutai

[xouman]

Don't we love spoilers? Let's bring a beautiful dragon:



Dragonlord Ojutai
3WU
Legendary Creature - Elder Dragon
Flying
Dragonlord Ojutai has hexproof as long as it's untapped.
Whenever Dragonlord Ojutai deals combat damage to a player, look at the top three cards of your library. Put one of them into your hand and the rest on the bottom of your library in any order.
5/4


Not sure at all if this is playable or not. But to start it has some protection, and really nice card advantage, while providing a decent clock. 5 mana is too much, but in a deck with drains could work. Depending on how the metagame adapts to mentor and other aggro, this card can be pretty unanswered unless countered.

I think someone will try this as some people have tried consecrated sphinx. Not going to be a normal staple, but I predict it would appear in some tops.

[Twaun007]

This thing costs 5

[Hrishi]

Well Sphinx costs 6 and has seen play in mono blue lists.

[Sarophym]

[Twaun007]

Mono Blue!?!

[thecrav]

Well Sphinx costs 6 and has seen play in mono blue lists.

And Blightsteel costs 11 and gets played in tons of decks!

[Hrishi]

Good lord, the trolls are out in full force.

Consecrated Sphinx:
http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=47098.0
http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=46787.0

And the Blightsteel comment was dumb as hell. I hope I don't have to explain why.

[Chubby Rain]

Mono Blue!?!

DWill and Efro also played it in the first season of the VSL to 2-1 records each...

And the Con Father has top 8'd 20 or so events in the past 15 months: http://tinyurl.com/kokc6bp.

And Blightsteel costs 11 and gets played in tons of decks!

12 actually...5 is much less than 12...

This card isn't Consecrated Sphinx, Magus of the Future, or any of the other expensive blue cards I've jammed into decks under the pretext of pitching them to Force: it doesn't immediately generate card advantage, negate a Griselbrand off Show and Tell, or have synergy with other humans (Dragons?) and Sensei's Divining Top. It requires a turn and an attack step to actually trigger it's ability and is vulnerable to Swords, Pyroblast, and other removal spells in the process. I do not think this card adequately addresses a need of the metagame and it is very likely unplayable (or not good, if you want to bring up semantics).

[d8dk32]

Well it does have hexproof so you should get at least one attack in. I'm not convinced that makes it good enough, but i'd love to be wrong. Wouldn't mind seeing a dragon as a finisher in a non-oath deck.

EDIT: I suppose they could path/pyro/reb it in the attack step. So consider me even less convinced. Hell, it even dies to dismember.

[Bill Copes]

Will the moderators please lock TMD?  This is getting ridiculous.

[MaximumCDawg]

This season's been better than most, anyway.  Not too many threads for bad cards.

And yes, this is a bad card.  I can see someone getting a spark in their eyes when they see a big dumb blue flyer that is better than Air Elemental and SEEMS like it has protection and a card advantage ability.  It has some superficial similarities with Consecrated Sphinx and Sphinx of the Steel Wind.

But beauty's only skin deep.  A big dumb beater must do some very specific things to be Vintage playable.  What this card does is NOT that.  

It dodges Sorcery speed removal.  We don't play any.

It mini-impulses when it hits the player.  The only Ophidan we play now is Cold-Eyed Selkie, a card that is cheaper, more evasive, and in the particular deck she is used, has a better draw effect than this dork.  The big dumb blue beaters some people try (Sphinx) draw cards and attack the metagame without needing to do jack.

It hits pretty hard in the air.  Goyf hits harder, Sphinx hits harder in the air, Mentor kills faster, heck, Delver kills faster by virtue of coming down so much earlier.

This card's advantages lie somewhere other than a Vintage match.

If you want PROOF that this card is poop, I give you this Vintage all-star that has better evasion and a better effect than this dragon:
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=275706

[xouman]

If you want PROOF that this card is poop, I give you this Vintage all-star that has better evasion and a better effect than this dragon:
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=275706

Well, that card has better protection and better effect, but worse evasion and worse clock.

Nevertheless after 8 hours of sleep I just realised today that the card is not playable, I just wanted to find something playable among the swarm of dragons. While this is a better draw than basic island if you already have lots of mana in play and no business, or with drain's mana floating, so are lots of other cards. This card is not going to see play.

[fsecco]

I'd say that probably the most playable dragon until now is this:

[brianpk80]

I'd say that probably the most playable dragon until now is this:

Without a doubt.  Dromoka serves a particular purpose in Salvagers Oath sideboard--collapsing Grand Abolisher and the backup Sphinx of the Steel Wind into a single card.  Grand Abolisher is no joke; there's a reason I kept that card on-board after a year of experience with the deck.  I always end up with Robots & Oath monsters in my hand.  They are frequently hardcast.  Dromoka is significantly easier to cast and has nearly the same physique as Sphinx.  It comes with built-in Cavern protection as well.  For all intents and purposes, it's a strict upgrade to a decklist that's already done well for me as is, and freeing up an extra sideboard slot is huge.  Ojutai on the other hand is not a bad card; it's just not optimal in Vintage. 

[Saya]

Wait,isn't Silumgur better than Dromoka?

[marcb]

I'm pretty sure Dromoka beats a delver deck single-handedly. That's got to be worth something. I see him as a possible SB card in oath or any bomberman or gifts deck running unburial rites.

[enderfall]

I'm pretty sure Dromoka beats a delver deck single-handedly. That's got to be worth something. I see him as a possible SB card in oath or any bomberman or gifts deck running unburial rites.

Would Bomberman really want to play Tropical Islands to cast Dromoka?

[marcb]

Maybe one wouldn't be so bad. You could also rely on trinket mage for emerald and lotus mana, but I guess I agree that bomberman was a stretch given that there isn't much else green adds to the deck.

[brianpk80]

Would Bomberman really want to play Tropical Islands to cast Dromoka?

The original Magus Bomberman decks ran Noble Hierarchs to accelerate into the combos.  Salvagers Oath definitely has built in Bant colors.  Dromoka is also a dual-purpose anti-aggro and anti-control card in any potential build that has an expansive Bant mana base and wants to go over the top, for instance a more combo-driven Trygon Tez list or perhaps something with Mentor/Gush/Fastbond.  Not needing the Cavern as one usually did for Grand Abolisher is a huge relief.  The casting cost is not awful because you don't have to hold up Flusterstorm or Drain or anything to push him through.  Setting up a win with Abolisher was often a 6+ mana proposition anyway, since you needed to play him off Cavern and then do something horrific like Vault Tinker or Auriok win before he could be Bolted/Decayed on opponent's turn.  

What's really cool about this card though is that as much as Grand Abolisher would push your %'s up against all types of blue decks, it was little more than a Grizzly bear v. aggro/Shop and so vulnerable to Lightning Bolts.  Dromoka allows one to play GA effects without having cards that are utterly dead v. aggro.  It singlehandedly negates the entire gameplan of popular decks like UR Delver so it will interact with current Vintage in relevant ways.  

[MaximumCDawg]

I ... what, are we seriously talking about hard casting a 6cc creature as the answer to Delver?  Really?  Are we in bizzaro land?  Look, I know that LSV did hilarious things with Elesh Norn against Menedian, but that was in an Oath deck.

I'll be more precise.  I can't imagine that a hatebear deck puts Delver into the control role.  Delver's creatures are better and it would seem to me that the pilot would go into an aggressive mode when put up against Savannas.  That suggests you probably are not getting the luxury of building up to a six drop.  And relying on mana dorks to get there against bolts seems like a losing idea.

[xouman]

@MaximumCDawg: Have you played salvagers oath or saw it into action? I played it and I just lost to delver when I missplayed heavily. It is not a "hatebear deck" by any means, and delver is favorable.

[brianpk80]

I ... what, are we seriously talking about hard casting a 6cc creature as the answer to Delver?  Really?  Are we in bizzaro land?  Look, I know that LSV did hilarious things with Elesh Norn against Menedian, but that was in an Oath deck.

I'll be more precise.  I can't imagine that a hatebear deck puts Delver into the control role.  Delver's creatures are better and it would seem to me that the pilot would go into an aggressive mode when put up against Savannas.  That suggests you probably are not getting the luxury of building up to a six drop.  And relying on mana dorks to get there against bolts seems like a losing idea.

Bomberman and Tezzeret are not hatebear decks.  This may come as a surprise, but Elesh Norn and Sphinxes have been being hardcast into play for almost a year now here in the Northeast.  

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=46441.0 (June 2014, maindeck Elesh Norn, no cheats into play)
http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=46962.0 (Nov. 2014, Sphinx, has cheats but at 35% of entrances come from hardcast; that was a main determining factor in cutting Griselbrand).  

I ran Elesh Norn maindeck again yesterday in UWR Monk and went first in the Swiss.  Harcast 6-CMC/7-CMC is both viable and precedented.  

[brianpk80]

Surprise, surprise:  http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=47613.0

It turns out that not only is Dromoka golden in a variety of Bant & GW contexts, but Ojutai is also playable.

[diophan]

Surprise, surprise:  http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=47613.0

It turns out that not only is Dromoka golden in a variety of Bant & GW contexts, but Ojutai is also playable.

Mad men playing a card doesn't make it playable

[serracollector]

vintage is the most broken format because of mana excel. I played lotus cobra and inferno titan to a top eight before. Casting a six drop with moxen mana drain and mana dudes is really not at all unrealistic. Especially ones that are not able to be countered in a What? Sixty percent plus blue meta that relies on counters? Cant be bolt even TWICE cant be decayed cant be dismembered. Only farming sir. Its pretty damn good.

[brianpk80]

vintage is the most broken format because of mana excel. I played lotus cobra and inferno titan to a top eight before. Casting a six drop with moxen mana drain and mana dudes is really not at all unrealistic. Especially ones that are not able to be countered in a What? Sixty percent plus blue meta that relies on counters? Cant be bolt even TWICE cant be decayed cant be dismembered. Only farming sir. Its pretty damn good.

Agreed.  Dragons of Tarkir is a nice ending for the block.  We had busted draw spells in Khans, busted creatures in Fate Reforged, all of which were game changers, and then the block closes with Dragons which offers playable options for niche roles, none of which are blockbusters like Mentor, but many of which are quite solid.  Narset was quite good all day as well.  

Mad men playing a card doesn't make it playable.

Don Draper disagrees.   

[WhiteLotus]

I honestly don't think that the 6 drop is playable. 6 mana in the two most unfavorable colors in the format for an effect that is meant to be a lot cheaper. if you want to deny your opponent interaction as a combo deck you could be choosing from: Xantid swarm, Grand abolisher, Defense Grid, City of Solitude.
Cards like Con. Sphinx and Inferno titan were good before khans when the format was slower and their effect was meant to be game winning more often than not. None of khans dragons have a relevant enough vintage effect and don't end the game quickly.

By the time you cast that dromoka my guess is you are pretty far behind in most games and she's not bringing you back. and the games where dromoka are relevant are actually an illusion since most likely you were already ahead and dromoka could have been a lot of better or cheaper things and still easily win you the game.

Yes there will be games where you have tons of mana even early in the game and lots of proactive cards but no back up to resolve them where dromoka might actually help, but for less than half of the mana cost you have a lot of easier ways to implement that plan. Dromoka's body certainly isn't that relevant vs stuff like mentor and the fact that bolt + decay are no longer the primary forms of creature removal.

FYI I actually tried to make the card work as a xantid swarm function, so the conclusions are not entirely theoritical. The fact that brian could have sucess with an "embarassing" card such as this just serves to show how accomplished a player he really is, I heard he's top 8'd with cards like Sen Triplets in his maindeck before.

[brianpk80]

Dromoka is actually useful though as a combination of the Grand Abolisher & backup Sphinx of the Steel Wind from the Salvager's Oath sideboard into one slot.  Having that extra space for an additional counter, answer, etc. is priceless in a field so diverse.