I'll admit it's vulnerable, but it's definitly not slow. The fastes kill without mana accelaration is turn 3:
T1: Nomad en-Kor
T2: Daru Spiritualist
T3: Doran -> Attack for infinite with Daru Spiritualist

That line of play is very obvious, and will alert your opponent. A more sneaky way is:

T2: Lightning Greaves
T3: Doran
T4: Angelic Protector -> Attack for inifite with a hasted flyer

NilsH

You can play then en-Kor combo in this deck. It has a natural synergy with Doran.

Guys to pump:
Daru Spiritualist
Task Force
Angelic Protector

Ways to pump them:
Nomads en-Kor
Shaman en-Kor
Lightning Greaves
SFM -> Lightning Greaves

If you play Condemn you may get infinite life. Most of the cards is OK by their own: Daru Spiritualist, Task Force and Angelic Protector is good with Elspeth KE and cheap equipments. The en-Kors is a bit weak though, but you can Survival it away when you don't need them.

NilsH

Remember we play Fastbond, so 3+ land in the first turns happens. As I said, I haven't tested it much but it's been good so far. I've played it two times in games; the first time I played EOT drawing two cards and discarding two lands while I had Crucible out.
The second time I played it I was trying to combo, FS filtered my mana so I could play 2x Wargate with 3 lands, 2 off-color and 1 on-color artifact mana. I won the same turn because of the FS. (This was my third turn btw).
I'm not saying is amazing, but at least in this deck I think it has its uses. It's drawback can be negated by Crucible as we're a bit more land heavy then a normal combo/controll deck.

Maybe you can try to build a version in UBg? You can cut white all together if you use Zuran Orb instead of Nomad Stadium. You'll be more vulnerable to Null Rod with ZOrb, but your manabase is likely to improve.

I played a few games with the first list (8 games to be exact).

Some thoughts:

I think a Regrowth should be included in the first list. I realize that you'll put a Fastbond into play with Wargate most of the time, but having it countered the few times it's played from hand really suck. And Fastbond can be destroyed with Claims etc, so an out would be nice.

It's possible to splash Demonic and Vamp in the first version with +1 Usea and -1 Island. Not sure if it's worth it, and what to take out for the tutors.

Have you tested Crop Rotation? It finds half of your combo pieces. I think it's worth some testing.

You have a high curve. How about a Mana Crypt to get Wargates, Jaces, Crucibles etc out faster? I cutted a land for a Mana Crypt, and I liked it.

I liked the Wargates, but I'm didn't like Compulsive Research. The CRs were only good when Crucible are online, but at that time I rather assemble the rest of the combo then draw a bunch of cards. And CR are sorcery speed making them bad in general with counters.
Some cards that could be tested in place of CRs: Frantic Search, Careful Study, Strategic Planning.

FS: Can be played at instant speed, fixes your mana to some extent (easier to cast an early Wargate), "free", synergi with Crucible (discard lands). I played a few games with 2 FS, I think it's decent.
CS: Haven't tested it.
SP: Didn't like them as I wanted to keep mana for Mana Drain up.

I'm currently playing this:

-2 Island
-4 CR

+1 Mana Crypt
+1 Usea
+1 Demonic
+1 Vamp
+2 FS

How bout Painter-Grindstone instead of Vault-Key? With some number of Trinket Mages in the deck you find all your pieces with Recruiter.

I'm going to participate in a mid-sized Vintage Event in Europe next month. The meta will be competative. I would like to bring something new to this event as I'm tired of the establish decks. By nature I'm a controll/combo player (Tezz, BomberMan, HermitDruid, TPS/DrainTendrills, various Drain Decks etc).

At BOM4 a Madness deck finished in the top 8 (http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=35685). I liked some of the ideas in this deck, but would like to rebuild it to fit my more controlling playing style. In particular I really like this line of play:

Turn 1 Land - Holding 1-mana soft counter (like Spell Pierce / REB / Spell Snare)
Turn 2 Bazaar - Holding Circular Logic.

With this in mind I started with:

4 Bazaar

4 FoW
4 Spell Pierce
4 Circular Logic

8 P9 - Timetwister Excluded.
 
The problem with Bazaar is that it conflicts with playing Mana Drain, as you can't get both  and Bazaar early (because you miss a land drop playing Bazaar). I think the counter suite above gets around the problem. The other problem with Bazaar is that's it card disadvange, so you have to build your deck around it. So I added

4 Squee
2 Grudge
1 Loam
1 DA
2 Roar of the Wurm
2 Riftstone Portal

Roar is a big Basking Rootwalla. Riftstone help to don't fall behind on mana. Also gets around Blood Moon effects.  (Some of these ideas are taken from "The Solution" by Cesar Fernandes on this forum).

I finally ended up with this:

// Lands
    4  Bazaar of Baghdad

    4  Misty Rainforest
    3  Tropical Island
    1  Underground Sea
    1  Volcanic Island
    1  Forest
    1  Island
    2  Wasteland
    1  Strip Mine
    1  Barbarian Ring
    2  Riftstone Portal

// Creatures
    4  Squee, Goblin Nabob
    1  Darksteel Colossus

// Spells
    1  Mox Sapphire
    1  Mox Ruby
    1  Mox Pearl
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Mox Emerald
    2  Mox Diamond

    4  Circular Logic
    4  Spell Pierce
    4  Force of Will

    2  Intuition
    1  Gifts Ungiven
    2  Ancient Grudge
    2  Roar of the Wurm
    1  Deep Analysis
    1  Life from the Loam

    1  Ancestral Recall
    1  Tinker
    1  Crop Rotation
    1  Time Walk
    1  Black Lotus
    1  Demonic Tutor


Short notes about the other card choices:

Tinker-Colossus: Random wins. Colossus gets the nod as he can be shuffled back in with Bazaar.
Mox Diamonds: Works good with Loam. Helps to not fall behind on mana when playing Bazaar. Can pitch addintal Bazaars to it.
Intuition-Gifts: Sets things up - Loam, Squee, Strip, Grudge etc.
Crop: Finds Bazaar. Risky versus controll decks.


I expect to face MUD, Drains, Dregde and Noble Fish (not many Oath I think).


Can this list be made viable, or is it complete jank?

How 'bout something along these lines? I'm a bit worrid about having to many 1- and 2-ofs. I want to keep this list away from Highlander

// Lands
    2  Tropical Island
    1  Underground Sea
    4  Scalding Tarn
    2  Misty Rainforest
    3  Volcanic Island
    1  Island
    1  Mountain
    1  Strip Mine

// Spells
    1 [BIN] Mana Crypt
    1  Sol Ring
    1  Black Lotus
    1  Mox Sapphire
    1  Mox Ruby
    1  Mox Emerald
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Mox Pearl

    4  Pyromancer Ascension
    4  Preordain
    4  Steady Progress

    2  Intuition
    3  Flame Jab
    2  Ancient Grudge
    2  Call to Mind
    1  Regrowth
    1  Life from the Loam

    4  Force of Will
    4  Spell Pierce

    1  Imperial Seal
    1  Time Walk
    1  Ancestral Recall
    1  Yawgmoth's Will
    1  Demonic Tutor
    1  Vampiric Tutor

True. My thoughts on this is a Scepter should be good enough on it's own (imprint Mana Drain or something), so it would be a "win-more".

Anyone dare to suggest a new list using Steady Progress (prolifirate)? I'm not sure it would fit my current list using QS. As earlier mentioned I would start cutting 1 Call to Mind, 1 QS, 1 Lotus Petal, but I would prefer to use those slots for more answers/business rather than more draw.


Maybe cut the QS-engine? Increase the mana sources to 26-27 (from 22-23). and use Intution, Steady Progress and overall a bit higher curve? Thoughts?

How bout Steady Progress?
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=110233&d=1283745851

Or other cards with Proliferate?

You need cards in GY to turn on Ascension. In the scenarios when you don't have a Intution, a first turn Ascension won't do much. Obviously the play above is good, but it won't play out like that every time.

Playing 2 DA on your 3rd turn is the wrong play most of the time. I usally search for DA DA Grudge, or Grudge Grudge DA. The cards I search for with QS largery depends on what my oppnent plays and what's in my hand. If I have a LDart in hand I'll search for a LDart to assemble the combo quickly.
I would play one DA and hold 2 mana up. Then I have mana open for Grudge (Flashback or from hand), LDart or a Spell Pierce. You should be able to have an active Ascencion on at the end of your opponents turn or on your 4th turn with this play without being vulnerable to blowouts.

If I see Juggy or Golems I'll most likely search for Grudges rather then DA. I don't have an answer to Goyf, but Goyf is not big when he comes down early.

You should be able to hold up Pierce in both scenarios. The second scenario turns on Ascension with relevant spells like DA, Grudge and Preordain, while the first one just burn for 1 (some times that's good to, I know ).

I just roll over and die I try to counter relevant stuff with Pierce and FoW, hit moxes and othter artifacts with grudges and kill utility dudes with LDart, while I look for Ascension. I should be able to land Ascension within my 3rd turn.

I can't say I've tested this heavily, just a few matches online. It's been doing well so far, but I don't say it's perfect. I don't claim it to be competative either, but it's at least fun to play and people don't expect it.

There is a huge difference betweem and + .


I feel land + mox + QS first turn is underrated. I didn't think it would be good myself before I tested it. You might want to think of it this way: A first turn QS for DA, DA and Grudge is simular to a Demonic Tutor getting Night's Whisper, Night's Whisper and Oxidize... except it is on-color and you have 4 of them... I think that's pretty good.

Also I want to highlight that a first turn QS for DA made me hit my 3rd mana source reliably. After a first turn QS I could flashback a DA, hit my second land and hold up a Spell Pierce for my opponent next play.
The only problem I see with this play is that I'm vulnerable after my QS (as it is a sorcery), but I think it's worth it. And I have answers to more common plays in Grudge and LDarts.

I don't have this option with Intuition.

Both are good, but they fill different roles. Jace's CC=4 is a bit high, and it won't trigger Ascension

There are two reasons I don't like Int for 3x Ascension:

1) If your Ascension gets hit (Counter, Pridemage, Nature's Claim etc) you only have one left in your library. Which means you'll have a hard time assembling the combo.
2) I have a low curve with few lands and lots of spells with cc<=2. Hence I'll miss my 3rd landdrop/mana source some of the time. Which will make Intuition a mid-game play, so Int for Ascesion won't be fast enough most of the time.

(Btw I really like intuition and I've played with it a lot, I just can't make it work the way I want in my list )

I think Imperial Seal should be tested. I forgot about the card when I posted my list.

DA is not the only way to turn on Ascension. I usally use a Grugde and a random to turn it on (random=preordain, QS, DA or Dart) - Just go with the flow QS for 3x Dart is probably the fastest at   and 2 mountains... but that's not the point.

It's not all about turning on Ascension, that's not usally the problem. The hardest part is to find Ascension (Intution can act as tutor, which could help the problem).

Int for 3x Dart isn't very good before you've found an Ascension... On the other hand QS for 2x DA, Grudge or 2x Grudge, DA is good both before (and after) you have Ascension.
Of course you can do Intution for simular piles, but QS is notable faster. And if you search for a single DA(and 2 other cards) with Int it will get stuck in your hand.

Sorry, didn't catch this. Care to explain?

Yupp, that was my point. As Int-AK was underwhelming both with and without Ascension on the table I cut the AKs for DAs. DAs were strictly better. With that change I also swapped Int for QS.

As for changes in the list I suggest that these chould be cut first:
-1 QS
-1 Call to Mind
-1 Lotus Petal

In these slots I would like to test:
2 Intution
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Roar of the Wurm (A faster win condition could be nice. And I don't want to lose to a Extripate target my Lava Dart)
 

My first build had Int-AK, but I found it slow. The easier casting of QS makes a difference. Also, searching for 3 AK with Intuition is not the best way to turn on Ascension. When Ascension is on the table you want a mix of DA, Grudge and LDart (depending on your hand, board etc).
That being said, I've never tried both Intuition and QS in the same list. I think this warrant testing. In my limited testing I run out of targets for my third (and forth) QS. Maybe a 3-2 split between the QS and Int could be good? (Or I could include more targets for QS).

There are some dissynergy between a sorcery speed engine (QS-DA) and counter magic, at least in theory. Any thoughts? Would Daze be good, as I can tap out during my own turn and still have a soft counter?

@Meadbert: I think you will have a hard time fitting both Ascension, Intution, QS - with targets, Loam and Ravens Crime in the same deck. Remember you have to keep as many 4-ofs as possible to activate Ascension. I remember seeing a list with Int, Loam, R Crime, Mox D and Gifts in one of Smmmen's articles but I can't find it...  

I've been working on a build implementing Quiet Speculation as an engine.

Mana - 23
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Volcanic Island
2 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring

Counters - 8
4 Force of Will
4 Spell Pierce

Draw, Combo and Setup - 24
4 Pyromancer Ascension
4 Preordain
4 Quiet Speculation
3 Deep Analysis
2 Ancient Grudge
3 Lavadart
3 Call to Mind
1 Regrowth

Misc - 5
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Vampiric Tutor

I tried using as much 4-ofs as possible to make it easy to activate Ascension. Quiet Speculation has been good with Grudges and DA. Lavadart feels a bit janky, but they take out Confidants, Selkie and other x/1s. They can also activate Ascension fast.

The decks win with infinite turns with Time Walk and Call to Mind/Regrowth, and then end the game with Lavadart and Call to Mind/Regrowth (You can alternate between getting back Lavadart and Time Walk with Call to Mind/Regrowth when the combo is assembled).
Against decks without counters another option is to force them to draw all their cards by recurring Ancestral Recall.

I'm not settled on the numbers on some cards. A third Grudge would by nice, and I would also like to try Wheel of Fortune.

The sideboard should include the last Grudges and some Ray of Revaltions. Roar of the Wurm might be good to stop aggro.

Just some thoughts without having tested the deck:

Would Muddle the Mixture be good to find Pyromancer Ascension? Or too janky?
For those of you trying Careful Study and the like; how about Bazaar? It fills your GY fast.
Quiet Speculation is even faster than Intuition, but Intuition is less narrow. QS could get A.Grudge, L.Dart, C.Therapy.

As for win condition besides Burn... maybe test Roar of the Wurm (or something simular)? It seems clunky, but it is played with sucsess in "The Solution" by Cesar Fernandez and have great synergy with both Ascension and Intution/QS.

...andYawgmoth's Will is also a great way of ending games, espesially with a big GY like this deck.

Actually, the first time I logged on after the change I entered the Bazaar Based Decks to find this thread... I had to use the search function to find it  

I think Dawn of the Dead should be included in the Bazaar Based Decks section. It is an established deck, and other decks that don't see much play currently (like Dragon) is included there.

EDIT: I have contacted the staff suggesting moving threads regarding DotD to the Bazaar section.


Regarding the deck, I don't feel its current manabase is optimal. This is due to all the utility lands included. With just 3 fetches and 1 of each dual the splash colors can sometimes be a problem. I'm considering cutting the Urborg, Tomb ogf Yawgmoth as it doesn't help getting our splash colors. Any thoughts?  

...and Lion's Eye Diamond. When you combo off the LED will be a Black Lotus #2 as you won't have a hand anyway (activate it just before you die to Channel).

I did some testing with a simular build, it needs all the colored fastmana it can get.


Also, why only 1 Personal Tutor? It is unrestricted  

Good post serracollector

You make some very good points for Unearth. I'll definatly try it.

I've came to the same conclusion as you regarding Clamps/Fastbond. They were either dead or win more. I also hated Clamps in multiples.

I think 3(?) Teegs should be somewhere in our 75 cards. Currently he's in my SB, but I see the arguments for including him MD if we can find room. He shuts down a lot of cards versus blue-based controll, and some number of Stax' artifacts depending on the build.
Note: The casting cost of GW may be a bit difficult in the first few turns. All my lands produces  so I can play Thoughtseize, Therapys and Confidants early; so I have to get two duals or Riftstone in the Yard to cast him (and I only have 3 fetches to find my duals).

At first glance Buried Alive seems slow with CC=3. By the time we could play it we could activate a Bazaar three times, we should have found some number of our Ghasts/Squees/Horrors by then.

I also play Cabal Therapy, so Duress + Thoughtseize has been replaced by Therapy + Thoughtseize. Some doesn't like Therapys, but I have found them to be superior to both Duress and Thoughtseize with the inclusion of Bloodghast. If you don't like Therapys you could replace them with Duress. I think 7 discard effects should be sufficent, at least with the flashback of Therapy 

I'll make that change and see how it works. 

Consult was included primarly to find Bazaar, but could also find other key pieces like Confidant, Squee etc. In some rare cases I used it to find a singelton bomb, although risky. I did try Crop Rotation at this slot, but didn't like the risk getting it countered. How 'bout Imperial Seal? With Bazaar top-deck tutors is quit good.

Thanks for all responses 

I don't think the Oath of Ghouls is needed. It's powerful, but it's also very slow.

Thanks, all suggestions are appritiated. 

1. Blue has been cut in my latest list.
2. Teeg can be nuts against some decks, but I'll consider this meta dependant.
3. The second Zombie Infestation has been added in my latest list. A single Life from the Loam has been sufficent for me. I only need for my mid- lategame.
4. Duress vs Thoughtseize is a metacall. In my meta Duress > Thoughtseize, but in my latest list (for an unknown meta) I have 4 Thoughtseizes.
5. I've never played off color moxen; the Mox Sapphire were cut when I cut blue, Mox Ruby was never played. Mox Diamonds are good, they provide accelration and color fix. With only 2 we rarely see them both in our opening hand (at the same time we want it our opening hand to give us early accelration). One Mox Diamonds were played in the old DotD lists, but it was restricted at the time. I think two, maybe even three would be fine.
6. At the moment StP and Edict is in the SB. I would like to fit them in, but have problems finding room. In my meta were fish is allmost absent the lack of StP in maindeck hasn't been a problem. Except against Tinker targets, I prefer StP over Edict.

Bloodghast has been good so far. He's a clock against controll, and negate the effect of smokestack as long as you keep playing lands. Dregde posts good results with the Bloodghast builds, I suspect the same will be true for DotD.

I'm glad you ask 'bout the Horrors. I don't think 4 Squee is sufficent to fuel the Bazaars and Zombie Infestations. The inclusion of Horrors lets you use Bazaar much aggresivly. In the old builds with just Squee, you would either end up with a empty hand, or you couldn't use Bazaar each turn.
This is simple mathematics actually: In order to get card advantage with 1 Bazaar we need 2 cards to discard continusly (Squee). Hence the number of Squees should be approxmently twice the numbers of Bazaars. We do have some other cards we would like to discards as well: Bloodghast, Riftstone Portal and to some extent Cabal Therapy; so the full set of Horrors might not be needed (but I'll never drop it below 2 copies).
Simply put: Horrors make your Bazaars and Zombie Infestation much more powerful. You can also mulligan more aggresivly for Bazaar because the engine gets much faster online with 6 Squees then just 4 Squees.

He'll definatly be a beast against Shops once in play. Might be hard to cast a CC=3 cretaure through spheres? He also provides lots of chump blockers when needed.

I think I'll stick to white for StP and for various hatebears in the sideboard. Let me know your testing resultats if you decide to run him in your BGR build.

I can't see how you can make an infinite loop with 4 Horrors. Still, with 4 Horrors you can make 2 zombies at your turn, return 3 Horrors to hand EOT; then make 1 zombie in opponents turn. If you have 1 addtional creature (Squee?), you can make 2 zombies each turn.

*****

Some notes/thoughts about my latest build (the list is a few posts up).

I found one fetchable green source to be too few. This was a flaw in my attempt to redo the manabase. I initally included a basic plain to cast StP (killing Magus of the Moon), but I would rather have a basic forest for Life from the Loam.
I would either suggest: +1 Forest +3 Verdant Catacombs -1 Plains -3 Marsh Flats OR +1 Bayou - Marsh Flats if we want to keep a basic Plains in.

Oath of Ghouls is slow. I would like to try something else.

Pridemage is a bit to cast unless we have a Riftstone Portal in the yard. Without Oath he lose some synergi, he still good though. Is 3 the right number, maybe cut 1?

The number of Krovikan Horrors are dependant on the rest of the list (obviously). Higher numbers let you use Bazaar more aggressivly. I might cut down to 2 in the current list. Maybe find some other card that has synergi with Bazaar (Dregde, Flashback or Madness).


There have been a lot of suggestion about Scullclamp and Fastbond. I find Fastbond to be pretty bad on its own. Scullclamp has synergy with Bloodghast and is good to grow our beaters. As a draw engine Scullclamp + Bloodghast suffers the same weakness as Bazaar + Squee: It gets hit by GY hate. That's why I prefer Dark Confidant over Scullclamp + Bloodghast, although the latter has better synergy with the deck. Finding room for all three draw enginees can be done, but is it needed? It's more important to win, then draw lots of cards 

I'll try cut
1 Horror
1 Pridemage
1 Oath

and try some of your suggestions: StP, Edict, Clamps, Fastbond (although I don't like it  ), Life from the Loam, Unearths, Imperial Seal, Darkblast.

Keep in mind that my version have fewer random slots due to the inclusion of Bloodghast. Compared to the old DotD builds my build looks light on creature removal (StP), so the fish matchup is weakened (Still I posted good resultats versus Noble Fish). I think the controll matchup is good with all discard and free uncounterable beats in Bloodghasts. The Shops matchups has improved with Bloodghasts and Pridemages, but can be improved further (I think was the previous builds worst matchup). I have yet to test against dregde but wastes, strips, therapy and pridemage to remove bridges should be good.

This is what I've been testing

// Lands
    1 Strip Mine
    3 Wasteland
    1 Cabal Pit
    2 Riftstone Portal
    1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    1 Plains
    1 Swamp
    1 Bayou
    1 Scrubland
    3 Marsh Flats

    4 Bazaar of Baghdad

// Creatures
    4 Squee, Goblin Nabob
    4 Bloodghast
    3 Krovikan Horror

    4 Dark Confidant
    3 Qasali Pridemage
    2 Tarmogoyf

// Spells
    2 Mox Diamond
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Lotus Petal

    4 Thoughtseize
    3 Cabal Therapy

    1 Vampiric Tutor
    1 Demonic Tutor
    1 Demonic Consultation

    1 Life from the Loam
    1 Oath of Ghouls
    2 Zombie Infestation

The changes are:
-1 Mox Sapphire
-1 Time Walk
-1 Ancestral Recall
-3 Duress
-2 Tarmogoyf
-1 Krovakian Horror
-1 Balance

+1 Land. The whole landbase has changed to include 2 basics.
+4 Thoughtseize
+1 Oath of Ghouls
+3 Qasali Pridemage
+1 Zombie Infestation

• The blue cards where a bit hard to cast in the initial build as they were not supported by Riftstone or Urborg. With fetches and duals they're simple not worth splashing for.
  
• Duress was swapped for Thoughtseize and upped to a 4-of, as suggested earlier.
  
• One Krovikan Horror was cut because they're bad without Zombie Infestation or Bazaar. One Oath of Ghouls is currently tested as a replacement for the Horror. Seems good with Pridemages. Two Goyfs were cut to make room for Pridemages.
  
• Balance were cut, but I still think it should be considered maindeck. It can wreck the opponent. Bazaar makes it less of a dead draw as you can just discard it.
  
• Zombie Infestation was added. I'm confidant that 2 is the right number!  
  

This won't work... Selectiv Memory only remove non-land cards, you'll still have 17 lands it your deck (+ whatever you chose to keep in).

The combo Channel and Lich's Mirror has allready seen some play. I small group in Canada did do a lot a work on it. Here's a list:
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=22943

I think there's a thread about it here on TMD actually.

It seems like a fun deck to play. I advice you to take a look at some other lists and read about it, before you have your own take on it.

Good Luck 

I would think Wild Mongrel + Berserk is more fun than good. In order to make Berserk game winning you need something like a 7/7 Mongrel (14/7 with Berserk), which implies discarding 5 cards to Mongrel. This is also under the assumption that the opponent has allready taken some damage. With 6 cards (5 random + berserk) I rather make three 2/2 zombie tokens.

You're right, with duals we'll color screw more often and vulnerability to Wasteland will be even worse.


I did some testing with the suggestions in this thread.

I tried playing 2 Scullclamps cutting power blue and with a landbase with fetches, duals and basics. Scullclamp is obviously good with Bloodghast, but Ghast was also only creature I found it beneficial to equip (I rather keep my Confidants alive). Hence, Clamps was only usefull in few situations.

As mentioned earlier by myself and serracollector, the landbase can be changed away from 5c lands to fetches, duals and basics. Here are my thoughts:

• You are less likely to color screw with 5c lands. As Delha said, if you play duals a well timed Wasteland can screw you.
• Fetches allow for multiple landfall triggers. This is kind of important in a not so obvious way. This situation came up quit often with the initial build: Activate Bazaar -> discard random card, Krovakian Horror and Bloodghast; play land. Do we put Bloodghast in play with the landfall trigger or leave it in the yard to get the Horror back EOT? With fetchlands we get both
  
• In order to get a more stable manabase we need basics. Probably a swamp, and maybe a plain if we chose to play StP.
• Most people will take our Bazaars before hitting our mana lands.
• We take some pain with City of Brass, but is has yet to be problem. If we swap Duress for Thoughtseize lifeloss might be more problematic.
• It will be harder to find room for Wastelands without 5c lands. We need more duals, basics and fetches to cover our need for colored mana

I also want to point out that I haven't had any problems with my 5c landbase so far. I'm not afraid of Wastelands, but Bloodmoon/B2B effects is bad...

I also did some testing with Oath of Ghouls, adding 3 Oath and the 4th Duress and removing 4 Kroviakion Horrors (thinking Oath and Horrors fill somewhat simular roles in the deck). Oath of Ghouls was much slower than Horrors, I needed to get a  enchantment into play before I could take full advantage of my Bazaar. That being said, Oath was very powerful mid- to lategame.
To take full advantage of Oath added some Quasali Pridemages for some Goyfs. Pridemages hit Oath, Time Vault, Stax and makes Bloodghast a better attacker.
Oath of Ghouls is certainly a new direction to take this deck (compare with previous builds in the link in my opening post for reference if you like). Oath is useless in multiples though, and I found 3 Oaths to be too much. I'll try a with a 2/2 split between Oath and Horrors. I'll post my new list after some testing.

As mentioned in my opening post (and in the previous DotD thread) Stax/MUD is one of the harder matchups. Some SB spaces for artifact destruction may improve this, maybe some Nature's Claims and Kataki War Wage. If we could fit some Pridemages in the main, the matchup should be improved(?) Any suggestions?

I will do some testing against Oath. I don't have any Dregde players in my local meta, and only one Shop player; if anyone with interess in the deck would like to do some testing it will be appriated. 
Regarding the Dregde matchup, both Wasteland/Strip Mine and Cabal Therapy should be useful. Waste for hitting Bazaar and Therapy for removing Bridges.

Thanks for all suggestions. Keep posting 

Why do you play Forbidden Orchard? Tech against Oath? In all other matchups City of Brass would be better.

How is the 3 Compulsive Research working out? Do you have enough lands to support it with? On paper it looks like it would just filter most of the time with 16 lands.

The deck looks like a hybrid of The Deck (anno 2010) and Leyline Combo. I can't see why this list is better then either The Deck or some Leyline deck like Two Card Monte or Leyline-Drains. I think The Deck was packing Leyline-Helm Combo in the SB though, maybe check how that deck looked after SB?

The Deck played Wastelands in "spell-slots" with 20 land total. You seem a bit low on colored mana, maybe find room for a additional land(s) and the 4th Wasteland? I see red cards, but no way to fetch a red land. I think adding lands will make both Compulsive Research and Crucible of Worlds better.

Do you need multiple Sowers and Deeds? I think of them as silver bullets, which mean you'll tutor for them most of the time. I would cut 1 of each, but find room for more Sowers in the SB.

How do you like Cunning Wish? I know it's played in The Deck, but I no experience playing The Deck nor that card. Has Regrowth been any good?

Why Fact or Fiction over Gifts Ungiven? Do you need any of them, you allready have Jace and the Compulsive Researches. Is it possible to cut some draw?

Gorilla Shaman used to be good in controll decks with mana denial (Wastelands and Strip Land). He could be tested.

Note: I have not tested the list, nor played anything like it. My questions was asked to get a better understanding of how it works, and start some discussion.  

Clamp was included in an early list. It was dropped due to limited deck space and because I felt I had enough draw with Bob and Bazaar. I didn't like Clamps in multiples, but maybe 2 could be included. You bring up valid points, both Goyf stalemate and low life totals with Bob. I've never died to Bob though; Cabal Therapy prevents Bobicide (as you so nicely put it). Some number of Clamps should be tested as they are very good with Bloodghast in particular.

Don't let the 5c lands fool you. We can play 80% of our spells (that was meant for being played) with . The 5c lands are mostly for SB options and a few silver bullets/broken cards maindeck (Power blue and Balance). Still, I understand the conscern about the manabase. I think a manabase with duals, basics and fetches would be better in a meta with mana denial strategis; probably cutting power blue and the Mox Sapphire. I would like to discuss this option further.

Your right, 1 Infestation is to little. In my testing I was allways happy to see that card, and often tutored for it to finish the game.

As for your other suggestions:

• Survival of the Fittest is too mana intensiv for green mana for this deck.
• Eternal Witness is strong, but   is bit though. Green is not our main color, and CC=3 is also on the upper end.
• Entomb was tested at some point. For most of the time it got a Life from the Loam. I found it uses to be limited. If we add in a fatty it will add some options with Entomb.
• A fatty is possible, but I think it will change the direction of the deck because the we also need to bring in reanimation spells. We'll might end up with some kind of Cerebral Assain Hybrid.
• Oath of Ghouls is an interesting option. It fills the same role as Squee and Horror. Oath is also very good with the Evoke cards from Lorwyn. A splash red (dropping blue) for Ingot Chewer could improve the Stax matchup. Shriekmaw could also be tested for the fish matchup (although this matchup is allready in our favor). I really like the idea of Oath. Good find!  

Blind calls with Therapy is rare. If possible we'll play Duress before Therapy (obviously). Even when we haven't had a peek at our opponents hand, we still hit most of the time be evaluting the opponents lands in play, open mana, previous plays etc. The only time Therapy is totally blind is turn 1, game 1, on the play, versus an unknown opponent. I definatly get more 2-1 for with Therapy and Bloodghast, then I miss with a blind Therapy. If a blind Therapy is my only play on turn 1 I'll probably mulligan anyway.

Agreed This seems like the best option so far.


Gorilla Shaman and Magus of the Moon do a good job disrupting the opponent hitting their manabase. Phyrexian Negator, Nantuko Shade or Tombstalker are some other options if you are looking for beats. Shade is probably too small though. Negator is nice in a controll and combo heavy meta, but I guess Tombstalker is best creature overall. You might take some damage from Confidant playing him.

@Meadbert: I like your list from the previous page. Did you try Sleight of Hand? It seems good; maybe in place of the AKs? Your list has very much draw, I would try playing Spell Pierce for some of them. I know counters are suboptimal with Kiln Fiend, but they still grow your Dryads.

If you cut red you lose Grim and Grudges which are good against MUD and NobleFish, two major decks in Europe.

Black gives you discard, Confidant and Zombie Infestation, but I don't think needs both discard and the current set of counters. Confidants and Z-Infest could be good inclusions though. Darkblast could also be good.


I have a topic on Dawn of the Dead in the improvement forum btw.

About the auther:
This is one of my first posts on TMD, so I’ll give a short introduction of myself. I’m from Norway and started playing MtG in my mid teens in 1997. I started playing Vintage (semi-competative) around 2000, doing well at my local store with the same Nethervoid Deck that Zherbus  played at the time. I had a break from Vintage from 2004 until 2009, but did had a comeback in 2006 winning the Norwegian Vintage Nationals (with Draw7 Storm).
Unfortunatly my local vintage scene has shrinked during my break, and currently there are only 4-6 playing Vintage on a competativ level, and maybe 8 casual vintage players. The past year I have attended to some of the major tournements in Europe; BOM3 and German Magic 1 to get tournament experience in larger events.

About the deck:
I wanted to try another take on the Dawn of the Dead from the old, which I think was first developed by Vroman at this forum. The idea is the keep disrupting your opponent with discard, while digging and filtering through your deck with Bazaar. Then beat him to death with Goyf before he can recover.
I allways liked the Bazaar-Squee engine, and I think that the new printing of Bloodghast will be a good inclusion to the deck. I acknowlegde that this may not win any larger tournaments, but I do think it can do well at local scenes if tuned to your meta. My goal is to make this deck as good as possible.  

Previous discussions and lists:
Dawn of the Dead http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=34971.60

Maindeck (first draft):
// Lands   
4   City of Brass
2   Riftstone Portal
2   Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1   Cabal Pit
1   Undiscovered Paradise
3   Wasteland
1   Strip Mine
   
4   Bazaar of Baghdad
   
// Creatures   
4   Tarmogoyf
4   Krovikan Horror
4   Squee, Goblin Nabob
4   Dark Confidant
4   Bloodghast
   
// Spells   
2   Mox Diamond
1   Mox Pearl
1   Mox Sapphire
1   Mox Emerald
1   Mox Jet
1   Lotus Petal
1   Black Lotus
   
3   Cabal Therapy
3   Duress
   
1   Time Walk
1   Ancestral Recall
1   Balance
1   Vampiric Tutor
1   Demonic Tutor
1   Demonic Consultation
1   Life from the Loam
1   Zombie Infestation


Card by card analysis:

Card draw:

Squee/Krovakian Horror/Bazaar is our primary engine. Note that horror can be returned EACH end step as long as a creature is directly above it. This allow real abuse with multiple Bazaars or Zombie Infestation.

Dark Confidant is our secondary engine and he also provide a (slow) clock. He makes us less dependant on Bazaar.

Ancestral Recall – The best card in the game.


Disruption:

Duress/Thoughtseize complements Cabal Therapy. I chose to play duress in my controll and combo heavy meta. Discard slows controll and combo down to our pace, and give us time to get our draw engine online.

Cabal Therapy plays nicely with Bloodghast. Paired with duress you don’t have to make blind calls too often.


Creatures:

Squee/Horror: See above. Some times we might want to play Horror to give all our creatures the ability ping the opponents creatures, and to give our Bloodghasts protection from StP. In some rare occations we might use squee as a recuring blocker.

Bloodghast is fuel for Bazaar and a recuring  beatstick. Bloodghast also helps activating the Horrors in the GY. Also, Multiple Bloodghasts + a Horror in play is kind of funny against creature decks…

Dark Confidant: See above.

Tarmogoyf: Big beatstick, usally 5/6 in this deck.

Zombie Infestation comboes with Squee/Horror.  With  2 Horror and 1 Squee, or 1 Horror and 2 Squee,  we can make multiple tokens; one each turn. Zombie Infestation is good against decks that want to attack with creatures. It’s also good against stax to keep your number of permanents high (to negate Smokestack and Tangle Wire).


Misc:

Time Walk is very good in this deck. It lets us draw extra of Confidant, Untap our Bazaar and we’ll get an extra  attack.

Demonic Tutor/Vampiric Tutor/Demonic Consult get the card(s) we need.  Consult can be risky, but it usally get a 4-of, like Confidant, Bazaar etc. I win more games (that I otherwise would have lost) playing it, then I deck myself.

Balance can be insane sometimes, and sometimes not. Multiple moxes first turn followed by Balance is really good. It also act as a wrath against fish.

Life from the Loam helps fuel the Bazaar, protects us from opponents waste effetcts, and gives us recuring land- and creature removal with Waste/Strip and Cabal Pit.

Mox Diamond - Pitching a land to Diamond early some times hurt, but they helps us keep up the pace. Duress + Bazaar or Confidant first turn is worth it. Later in the game the loss of a land doesn’t hurt at all, usally your hand fill be filled with land due to Loam, Confidant or Bazaar anyway.


Lands:

Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth produce mana of our main color, and let Bazaar tap for mana.

Riftstone Portal let Bazaar tap for mana. Also works well with Diamonds. With Urborg in play and Riftstone in the GY we get all the colored mana we need.

City of Brass – The best 5c land.

Undiscovered Paradise is currently tested as our 5th 5c land. It works well with Bloodghast.

Wastelands – Secound best land destruction.

Stripland – The best land destruction.

Cabal Pit is  a oncolor land and a creature removal. Very powerfull with Loam versus fish etc.


Cards that were considered:

Crop Rotation gets Bazaar turn 1. Geting it countered hurts bad, and is the reason I chose not to run it (almost every deck in my meta run 4 FoW, and many of them is also packing 4 spell pierce…).

Sol Ring and Mana Crypt was excluded because this deck doesn’t use much colorless mana. I use Mox Diamonds instead.
For the same reason Mox Ruby was dropped at some point for Lotus Petal.

Basking Rootwalla was tested in the spot of Tarmogoyf. He was OK, but to mana intensiv (pump ability) and to small to fight fish creatures.

Darkblast was tested to destroy Confidants and Fish decks. Cabal Pit was chosen instead because it works double duty as both mana source and creature removal. Cabal Pit is very powerfull with Loam.

Diabolic Edict to handle Tinker-Robot. Currently in the SB.

StP to handle fish and Sphinx. Currently in the SB.


Matchup Analysis:

As mentioned in the opening I don’t have a large vintage meta, so my testing is somewhat limited. I did some testing at my local store with the list above and this sideboard:

3 True Beliver
3 Gaddok Teeg
1 StP
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Duress
1 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Ray of Revelation
2 Ancient Grudge

I expected some Oath, TPS, Stax and some random decks to show up.

TPS: I played several games versus TPS. The discard heavily disrupted them. Mid- and lategame I destroyed them with my superior draw engine.
After sideboard I brought in my ”hatebears”: 3 True Beliver, 3 Gaddok Teeg, 1 Diabolic Edict and 1 Duress.  I took out 4 Goyf, 1 Balance, 2 Horrors, 1 Wasteland. The reasoning behing this was both True Beliver and Gaddok Teeg keep him from winning, the forth Duress will disrupt him even more, and the Edict will answer his Tinker. The Goyf was boarded out because the ”bears” are better, and they’re GY dependant. Balance doesn’t do much in this MU because TPS doesn’t have many permanents besides lands and artifact, and our handsizes is about the same. Horrors were taken out because I didn’t want to be to GY dependant.
He sideboarded in 4 Leyline of the Void, hoping they would save him the same way as versus dregde.
After sideboard his hand was even more crippeled by my discard. His Leylines slow me down, but Confidants still fueled me with cards giving me the upper hand. He could also not find answer to my multiple ”hatebears”.
After six games (2 pre board and 4post board) I was up 5-1. My only loss was to a resolved Tinker with FoW backup for my Edict.

NobleFish: My draw engine was clearly superior. I don’t play islands, so Selkie’s islandwalk is irrelevant, and I can deny him cards with chump blockers like Squee or Zombie tokens. Both Cabal Pit (with Loam) and Zombie Infestation was good in these matches. A Consult for Balance also totally wrecked his board one time I was in trouble.
After sideboard I brought in a StP and a Edict, but I don’t remember what I boarded out (probally Bloodghast or Horrors). He did bring in some GY removal like Tormod’s Crypt and Relic of Progentitus, but they were only minor speed bumps. If Fish starts showing up in numbers I would change to Thoughtseize over Duress.
I thought this could be a hard matchup, but after four games I was 4 to 0.

Stax: I didn’t get to play this matchup much. I lost my first game to Workshop Thrinisphere on turn 1 (he started). I’m almost certain that I would have won if I started (I had a hand of moxes and a Bazaar).
He brought in Leyline after sideboard. I brought Grudges. We played two games, taking one each.  Can’t say much about this matchup, seems even or slightly in their favor. They can take advantage of my manalight build.


Further development:

I’m not sure if a 5c manabase is the right call, or rather cut it to BG(w) with duals and fetches. I think it will be hard to find room for basics, so I’ll stick with my 5c lands for the moment. I might feel differently if my meta had more Wastelands and mana disruption.

Without Bazaar or Zombie Infestion the deck has some number of dead draws: Squee and Horror. Zombie Infestation has been very good every game, so I’ll think another Zombie Infestation shoud be added. This will also reduce the frequency when Squee and Horrors are dead draws.

Tarmogoyf is good, but I noticed I usally discarded him to Bazaar early in the game. I much rather play cards that disrupt my opponent early on, and play Goyf in mid-late game to finish him off. Hence, I think 1-2 Goyf can be cut. (In a aggro/creature heavy meta you might want to keep all 4 though).

As mention above I want to disrupt my opponent as much as possible. I think the forth duress would be good if we can find room.

You might have noticed that the current build doesn’t have an answer to a resolved enchantment or artifact in the maindeck? Although it haven’t been a problem so far, a Seal of Cleansing or some Nature’s Claims could be considered. (Seal of Primordium can’t take Sphinx, so Seal of Cleansing is better).

I board out 1-2 Horrors a lot. Maybe cut 1 or 2 from the main.

I noticed that Grugde and Ray of Revelation wasn’t that good because of Leyline of the Void. Grudge is also a bit hard to cast from hand because my lands usally produce BGW (due to Urborg and Riftstone Portal).

I will try something like in the maindeck:
-2 Horrors
-1 or 2 Goyf

+1 Zombie Infestation
+1 Seal of Cleansing
+1 Duress  or a Land (if you face a lot of Waste)

In the sideboard I’ll cut the Grudges and Ray for Nature’s Claim.

EDIT: added a link to previous discussions.

Your deck seems a bit mana light with 16 lands and 4 artifact mana (M Crypt, M Vault, Sol Ring and Petal). Looks like you'll be in trouble if you face a deck with mana denial (waste, stifle etc).

I don't like Chain of Vapor in your list. It's good in TPS for building storm, but not in your list where your opponent can bounce a confidant or a painter. I suggest Repeal if you want another bounce in addition to E Truth.

I found Trinket Mage to be good when I played Painter. I suggest cuting grindstone #2 for Trinket Mage #3. You don't want grindstone early anyway I would also add a Needle and a EE to your toolbox.

Do you need Hurkyl's Recall? If you only use it for opponents Tinker targets, then Diabolic Edict is sufficent. But if your meta contains MUD and Null Rod, then I guess Hurkyl's will be good