or now option B:  Cast an artifact for 2 mana, then Pay 3WW to cast Serra Angel that can be countered, but now Serra comes into play as a vanilla 2/2 that can be killed with "shock" before I can do anything about it???

Yes, this seems like a totally awesome change.  Way to make my 4 $70 cards worth $0.07 each

Why couldn't they leave the card alone in that it was a fun, viable card that enabled innovation rather than a completely useless pile of crap.  As it is now worded it is in every conceivable way worse than just flat out casting a creature

Don't most GPs have side events of all formats, including Vintage?

Depending one the way you decide to run it, Legacy spilling unto Day 2 could be completely reasonable.

These numbers may be a bit off but IIRC only about 15% of the players Day One qualify for Day Two, if you were to run it similar to a GP.

For Pro Tours, that number is probably closer to 40%, but those are also THREE day events.

The "Legacy GP, Vintage Non-GP" idea isn't completely unfeasible, in that there were Vintage side events at GP Chicago. They just weren't highly advertised and weren't run by WotC (and I'm not even sure if they were sanctioned). All those things can be remedied though.

That said, I still think that it would be cooler to have a "Eternal Weekend."

You're going to have to accept the fact that this would primarily be a Legacy event, and it should even be marketed as such to drive the greatest possible number of players. As such, the Vintage portion would almost act more as a "side event" on the second day. Certainly, if the incentive is high enough, some players will travel <i>just</i> for the Vintage, but if you want to get a high attendance for Vintage, you need to be able to get the Legacy players, Pros, and semi-pros that are there for Legacy to think, 'I'm here anyway. Might as well try out Vintage."

Unfortunately my area has no official tournaments anymore.  The shops here in Minnesota that did host now don't because a lot of the vintage players in my area play legacy instead.  Its not worth it for them to run a tournament for ten or so hardcores.  In the immediate area I Am the vintage player.  I have gotten people to build decks, testing is the only thing that happens out of it though.

We do have turnys by ourselves (immediate group) but they're always a draft or some other hindering format like peasant/chaos and most of the time I'm not allowed to play anymore due to the fact so far I had won all of the ones I was invited to and there had been complaints that it wasn't fair.  (care bears) whatever.

I agree with a need to do something to bring more life back.  Proxys are a good way to allow more people to play and are allowed at lots of non WotC events but people still stopped showing up.  The unrestriction of poor moxs are good for way of allowing more mana for decks that can abuse them and maybe balance things a bit with the powered ones.  Still it doesn't seem enough.

                                                                                                                             Dr.KnowMaD

Honestly, I find the idea of this thread moronic. We just had a slew of restrictions that have made many decks look like we're playing highlander. The metagame has barely settled into a semblance of 2005 and already people have been talking about what should be restricted next in both this thread, tournament reports, and in their own crusade threads.

I recall reading one of Smennen's articles that had a reference to what people thought should be restricted. In there was Weissman's thoughts on the matter, and virtually every card that could beat his deck was listed as something he thought should be restricted. Flash forward (no pun intended) and we have our most recent round of the B&R list. Shockwave's crusade to have Flash restricted may or may not have influenced the decision to add Flash to the restricted list. Since then, there's RaleighNCTourneys and Clark Kant trying to make a very public case against various cards in Ichorid.

You know why I gave up playing G/R aggro? (sorry Kird Ape) Because it had very few good matchups. That's the thing about each archetype. You are going to have unfavorable matchups with any deck you choose. You accept that some matchups are going to be bad. You attempt to address that by both metagaming and selecting the appropriate cards in your sideboard. If it's still a bad matchup, well then, hope you don't hit your bad matchups in the event you are playing. You know what? If you are playing Landstill, Ichorid is going to be your bad matchup. If you are playing Stax, pure aggro is going to bust your chops, etc, etc, whatever the bad matchup may be. It's immaterial to the point. No one should expect the metagame to be so balanced that any deck has at least a 50/50 chance against everything in the field. Nor should we be pressing to restrict cards until it gets to this point.

If anything, we should be pressing for unrestrictions. Instead of taking a more cautious approach to the B&R announcements, we received a thrashing of blue cards. Who knows how degenerate Flash, Gifts, or Gush would be without Merchant Scroll? If still broken, then take the further steps to restrict Brainstorm and Ponder. Lacking the consistency that those cards provided, would that have slowed the fundamental turn of those decks by 1-3 turns? Would that have been considered fair? Would Flash still be able to produce turn 1 kills with two counters as backup?

I advocate a much more moderate approach that the gangbusters job that happened and the further lobbying by others. I didn't think there was a massive problem that couldn't have been addressed that way. You don't drop random bombs on formats that are called ETERNAL. Shape it over time.

The way this has all played out has driven several people out of vintage altogether with some people selling out. I did a fun check of all the tournaments run since the B&R announcement to see that there has been a lower average turn out for a lot of events that normally pull people in...by a lot. Vintage Worlds had a good number out there...but less than it did when held at Gencon. I believe it was regularly around what...125? Canadian Nats dropped the Canadian Vintage Champs altogether. Supposedly, there wasn't enough interest in vintage. I'm hoping Vintage as a format recovers from this loss of interest in it. It's the only reason I play magic in the first place. I'm not interested in a format where I can play KirdApe.dec and have a 50/50 matchup against the field (sorry Legacy). I want to play a completely swingy format with cards that are overpowered and that can win a game in the blink of an eye.

Keep on going with these threads and others asking for restrictions, and we get closer and closer to Weissman's wish. One Deck that can beat anything. Of course, every deck would be roughly the same...probably 30-40 restricted cards, 5-6 metagaming cards, and mana. That will be the day that I quit once and for all.

So keep on plugging for unrestrictions rather than restrictions....one day Dream Halls, one day!

So in summary, let's not talk about banning Will.

In a similar question, let's some some or all 4 of those cards are restricted and/or Yag Will banned. 

Would you even consider what's left Vintage (or Type 1 if you've been around)?  Or would you consider it some sort of Legacy with moxes and power (because basically that's what it would be).

My first instinct has always been I'd be ok if they just banned Will and let us play with "unfair but fair" decks, if that makes any sense (unfair = all the acceleration and power, fair = no stupid "I win" card), but I'd want to ensure that one Drain/control archetype didn't dominate (I was there for the Keeper is King what should go in our 60th Keeper slot days and I know part of Keeper's dominance was lack of metagame innovation, but it still was bleh).

As the number of restrictions increases, the value of those restrictions in terms of modifying the format decreases to zero on an infinite scale.

Vintage would be awful if this happened. The format is already to close to highlander as it is. Seriously! How many 4x cards does CS and Long Run?
CS
-4 Thirst for knowledge
-4 Force of Will
-4 Strategic Planning

Long
-4 Force of Will
-4 duress
-4 Dark Ritual

In response to the OP's question.  I can't agree that Ichorid would still be good with all blue and black cards restricted.  Losing 3 Ichorids, Narcos, Bridges, Therapies, Imps, Thugs, and Unmasks seems like it would hurt things a wee bit.  As for the others, well, that's almost what they're doing already so I'd agree that those wouldn't get hurt too much.

So basically if you want to dig 3+ cards, you need to be:
2 mana (e.g. Impulse) as an instant
2 mana the first time you use it (1 to cast top & 1 to use it).

Honestly, who cares about Turian's coming article and the DCI's justifications. Turian could easily come and copy any of the valid arguments for BS/Ponder/Gush restriction from these forums alone. It is possible to argue for the validity of just about ANY restriction, and NO ONE can challenge that validity unless they are clairvoyant. The fact is that any change, whether objective or not, is in many ways a good thing, and T1 has grown to the point where it can handle just about any archetype or strategy or B/R list change. Look at Flash for instance - this deck would never exist for as long as it did 5 years ago, but the fact that many didn't see it as grossly distorting and unfair is a testament to the ability of our format to buffer against just about any change or introduction of a powerful strategy.

Thus it ultimately doesn't matter one lick what reasons the DCI gives for the restrictions, because it is impossible to evaluate their impact until LONG after the fact. Maybe this is why the DCI initially devoted 100 words on the matter rather than 10,000 words, because either way it wouldn't make one shred of difference. Plus, the DCI seems to do things by feel - sometimes something just doesn't "feel" right even though it is tough to explain what exactly is wrong. As someone in another thread once said, "I don't know precisely what criteria to apply, but I'll know a problem when I see it".

Top 8 Decklists from both days have been posted.

Day 1

Day 2