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Eternal Formats / Global Vintage Tournament Reports and Results / Re: [Results] Blue Bell Tournament 8-25 (pics)
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on: August 29, 2007, 09:05:26 am
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Second round, I played agaisnt Gat Tendrils. I got paried down to the guy, who drew with Dshel.
I just wanted to point out that I actually lost this game. That was the longest 4th turn I've ever witnessed. This was a fun event. I wish I would have done better. Oh well, what are ya gonna do? Highlights of the day: Mike did well - good job dude! The turn out was great. The event was run well. Pudges' is some good food. Slops of the day: Crowded and hot. Getting paired against mono black round 3 of the main event... and losing. Dropping 0-3 to play in the side event... only to get paired against the SAME mono black deck, losing again... Losing to... Rathi fuckin' Trapper. -DShell |
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Eternal Formats / Global Vintage Tournament Reports and Results / Re: Meandeck Open: Top 4 - A Brief Report
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on: July 09, 2007, 10:43:04 pm
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You are misrepresenting what I am saying. The 1st rule of restrictions is this: Cards that produce an overpowered effect for their mana cost are restricted. Ancestral Recall gets 3 cards for 1 mana; Demonic Tutor gets any card for 2 mana; Regrowth gets back a card for 2 mana. All of these cards have been reprinted in later sets with 'fair' mana costs, and none of them have been amazing. This is the fundamental rule of restrictions. Flash produces a game-winning effect in conjunction with another card. It is not any good in and of itself, as opposed to the other three, core-to-Type-1 cards that I just referenced. Therefore, comparisons between it and the Big 3 of LED, Burning Wish, and Trinisphere are fallacious.
Huh? Flash produces a warped environment... in the form of a game winning 2-card combo. That for the most part wins by turn 2 and in most cases turn 1. With counter back-up, often with double counter back-up. This is just to reiterate, to make sure we're looking at the same cards and the same examples. LED, Burning Wish and Trinisphere were all nuked because they were broken. Sure, LED is essentially another Lotus. Wish is another Demonic Tutor. And Trinisphere... well it's just unfair. But to say none of these were 2 card combos is just ridiculous. Burning Wish was in Long almost exclusively for Yawgmoth's Will. Having 4 Wills in a deck is insane. And Trinisphere was way too powerful with the fast mana Stax uses, namely Mishra's Workshop. Honestly, everyone complained about Trinisphere. And Stax was never capable of protecting it's 3Sphere. Nevermind with the same consistency that Flash can protect itself. -DShell |
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: June 1st Banned and Restricted Changes
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on: June 04, 2007, 01:46:27 am
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I make a prediction: In 3-4 months time, when the metagame has settled a little, I think that all the people who have cheered for Gifts late and oddly timed restriction, will be the same ones complaining about Dredge Return, Flash, and Doomsday.
And honestly, Gifts is the deck that holds Flash(I hate this deck) in check and can still give decks like Doomsday a run for its money.
I also find it a bit odd that Gifts Ungiven is far too powerful for Vintage, yet they unrestrict a free card that pretty much dominated Vintage for MONTHS... Gifts never had the same domination as GAT did in it's hay day.
-DShell
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Giftsless Gifts
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on: June 02, 2007, 12:47:16 pm
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As for adding Gifts Ungiven, no I don't think it's worth adding; the deck does exactly as it's meant to using Intuition instead.
If you add AKs to the deck and are drawing a ton of cards, Gifts Ungiven even as a 1-of is downright broken. Honestly, if you've drawn enough mana and have some counter back-up, Gifts would be game over. -DShell |
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: [Premium Article] Eternal Potpouri - Doomsday
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on: May 24, 2007, 06:36:52 pm
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Not sure if this belongs to the rules forum or here, but am I correct in the assumption that a failure to reveal a card off desire due to having 0 cards in the library doesn't contribute to a loss?
You answered you own question. Revealing is in no way the same as drawing a card. Therefore, you would not lose the game. -DShell |
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: New to Vintage, hate moxen, RW Aggro need help I'm not a n00b, I'm a t2 vete
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on: May 18, 2007, 06:15:59 pm
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Bloodfire Dwarf can be good against ichorid also. As it killes every creature they bring out (save the dread returned target but that is what swords is for). And on top of that it also lets you remove all the bridge from below that they have in the yard. Also with 3x crypts in the main you have some game against the deck anyways. As you can chump block with your creatures a little then pop a crypt. Like I said dread return is your biggest threat I think. The whole deck is a threat. Ichorid will probably side out it's Bridges against any aggro deck. It can be a waste of space. Crypts are hardly the solution for a deck that can cycle through it's deck in a matter of 2-3 turns. Besides, Manaless Ichorid plays 4 Chalice of the Voids, which help against Crypt a lot. Also not that if i remember my the way the stack work's right then they will not get any creatures from bridge from below if you use the dwarf. As the dwarf will go to the gravyard as part of the cost and there for trigger the bridges remove from game ability before the dwarf does it's damage. It depends when you do it. If you do it during the Ichorid player's turn, then they can choose the order of Bridge's resolution. Just an idea worth thinking about if you think ichorid is a problem. As I belive stoping them from ever geting the token in the first place is better then killing then waiting and killing the token then. Ichorid won't be dumping it's whole graveyard in just 1 turn. So, chances are you will only hit a 1-2 Bridges upon sacking a Dwarf. I think you can afford to run 1 explosive's though and 1 Enlightened Tutor also (This way if you did not stop the bridges in time you still have a way to deal with the tokens). Tutor is nice as it gives you a little card selection out for the deck. I'm sorry, but that sounds terrible. First, Explosive's is only a one-shot effect, so next turn you're gonna be facing more sideways dudes. Second, E. Tutor is gonna put the card on top, which is really slow against a deck like Ichorid. -DShell |
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: MDG in 2K7
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on: February 22, 2007, 07:39:38 am
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MDG can totally abuse storm. I agree with you that, when you can make a sizable, yet still not lethal, storm count then EtW is better than Tendrils. However, if you are unable to build a sufficient storm, or when doing so would be inefficient as you would be expending cards which could be better used for protection, then EtW will suck and so will Tendrils. Tinker + Colossus is nice because you can launch it any time and do not have to worry about building sufficient storm.
EtW is good because you don't have to go 'all-in'. Even if you have to EtW early, you can still manage to win with Tendrils a few turns later, which is why it's so good. Tinker/Colossus is only really good in the first few turns. Besides, it takes up two slots. EtW is good in almost every situation and is rarely a dead draw. Sure, Tinker/Colossus is easy to set up and play, but you spend two cards on something that is so easily dealt with. And no, Tinker/Colossus is not good at any time. It is only really good withing the first 1-3 turns. Even turn 3 is pushing it. Gifts is huge right now and it packs so many ways of dealing with the Iron Giant. Merchant Scroll ---> H. Recall, Rebuild, or Chain. Fish has Swords. Stax, CS, and 7/10 have Welders. When a deck doesn't have to deviate from it's normal course of action to deal with a win condition, chances are you're gonna lose. Gifts going for a Rebuild against a Colossus deals with that clock AND allows them to win during their turn. Welder is a normal course of action for Stax, CS and 7/10. So, when you put all your eggs into Tinker/Colossus against a deck that has very little problem dealing with it, you're gonna lose. -DShell |
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: MDG in 2K7
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on: February 21, 2007, 09:46:59 am
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My post is addressing that opinion, and specifically says that it is incorrect. Now, as in all things, I may be wrong, and that is why I am posting here and talking to you. Calling something an outdated win condition is unreasonable; calling something a bad win condition is sensible only if there are facts to back your opinion. My argument, backed through my testing, is that Empty the Warrens as a 1-of simply is not effective as a maindeck kill condition. I'm confused. If you don't think that EtW is a maindeck kill condition, what is it? I understand that Fish and Stax do still win games. What they do not still do is matter to me as much as the Drain mirror does, which is why I focus my decks upon that matchup. Putting a clock on your opponent in the Drain mirror is not the optimal way to win it, and you should not win a Drain mirror because of a quick Empty (although I readily agree that an Empty for 20 followed by a Time Walk will be the win, if that is what you want to argue). You are basing your strategy off a win condition; I am basing my strategy off a decklist. In other words, using Tinker as your kill condition means that you can cast it and still defend yourself and play your deck as usual on the same turn. This is extremely important in the Drain mirror. If putting a clock on your opponent is not the way you win a Drain mirror, then how is Tinker/Colossus good? It takes up two slots, while EtW only takes one. That seems better to me. I'd much rather have EtW against a Drain deck. Simply because I can EtW early and still be in the game. EtW is also much easier to defend. If Tinker is countered you're down 2 cards and A LOT of tempo. It will take three swings of your Goblin team to kill me. During the first two swings and on the turn you cast it, I do not care about your dorks. They're dorks. I already have Fish in my meta, and I already know how to play against a clock. If you randomly Warrens for much more than that on your first turn, you have gotten exceedingly lucky, and I tip my hat to you. Even then, I will still have 2 mainphases before my loss. You will have tossed artifacts onto the field to cast your Warrens, and that is great for me, because it means that you have little to no disruption. If that is the case, then I am prepared to try to win given the 2-3 mainphases that I will have total, just as I would against turn 1 Oath.
Again, you're assuming too much. EtW is much different than a team of Fishy Dudes. Especially when you're facing 6+ dudes(this number is focused on because it's so easy to attain and is very tough to deal with) on turn 1 or 2. So, no you're racing to find an answer while I can protect and still beat you. I'm not so certain that many decks can deal with 6+ Dorks, but I know a lot can deal with 1 Iron Giant. -DShell |
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: MDG in 2K7
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on: February 20, 2007, 06:16:58 pm
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As I stated in my post, people are not changing because something better has come along; they are changing because something new has come along. The entire post was addressing those who believe that EtW and Duress are better than Colossus and Duress.
From what I've tested, EtW is better. The team I'm with feels the same way, through testing that is. I'm not sure why you're still gravitating to an outdated win condition. Both Stax and Fish are colossally underpowered. While they may be theoretically difficult matchups, my hardest matches are always in the Drain mirrors, because the decks that I am playing are operating at the same power level as I am. While I understand that the best players often gravitate towards Drains, which may influence the perception that Drain matchups are harder, the fact remains that Drain decks cohesively unite the best cards in the format in ways that no other decks do, and that is why my decks are focused towards those matchups. Stax and Fish may be underpowered. But, I wouldn't say they are "theoretcially difficult", they can and still win games. Besides, if you find Drain mirrors to be the toughest, then I still fail to see how EtW isn't that good. Most Drain decks pack a way to deal with a single target, Chain of Vapor and some still pack Hurkyl's and Rebuild. All of with hurt Colossus. Very few pack ways of dealing with EtW. While Empty the Warrens does create card advantage, it does not create any sort of card advantage that the other player should care about. That is a huge misconception. That is like saying that Oath of Druids creates card advantage. While technically true, it is a facetious argument; Empty the Warrens is simply a win condition. A goblin /=/ a card in Vintage; as a matter of fact, it does not even equal a small fraction of a normal card in such a high-powered format. It is absolutely untrue, furthermore, that Empty the Warrens cannot be answered with one card; for two relatively common answers, look for Echoing Truth, Engineered Explosives and, depending on a Stax players' fancy, Tabernacle or Slice 'n Dice (two solutions of which one is run by every Stax player that I know). Finally, it must be taken into account that almost every win condition in Type 1 requires less turns to kill the opponent than the Goblins do. You are essentially reading the card as follows:
Empty the Warrens
3R - Sorcery
Put 6 1/1 red Goblin tokens into play
Whether or not Storm is card advantage is a critical issue in this format. As should be evidenced by my post, I do not believe that it is. When you play the card Empty the Warrens, the above is what you are playing; although the effect may be at times more powerful than that, perhaps even much more powerful, that is the baseline. If you are comfortable and happy with playing that card, then do so; I am certainly comfortable using it in the Stax or Fish matchup. However, the above is simply not a card that merits all-around use, and it should not be seen as a source of card advantage.
If you think that you don't have to worry about EtW, then you will lose games. I don't know of the last time anyone said to me, "I don't care about 6, 8, or 10 little dorks..." Unless you're PL or something that can win through it. Colossus is a threat, but when I can tutor for a way to bounce it and all my artifacts during your EOT and then win next turn, Colossus is hardly a threat. Most Drain decks I know cannot tutor for any singleton and deal with 6+ 1/1 dorks. Unless of course, they can win through it and most decks need time to set up before that and the tokens really hurt their plan. And no, EtW doesn't read that... I'm not sure why you'd think that. -DShell |
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: MDG in 2K7
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on: February 20, 2007, 02:15:24 pm
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My post was not going meant to be a me saying that I had great new tech; it was addressed toward those who wanted to replace the Iron Giant with Empty or Mana Drain with Duress. I think that people are too quickly hopping aboard the bandwagon of change. The principle point of my post was to rebut those who argue for change for the sake of change.
Vintage has always been about change. When something new and better comes along, things change. In regard to my sideboard, I've arrived at this board in response to the development of my metagame, as should be done, and I am very happy with all of the slots in it. In my testing so far, Empty annhilates Stax and Fish, Stax and Fish can be your two toughest matches. So, why not play at least one EtW main. I'm still confused. Finally, to Ash: I would much prefer to play against a skilled opponent with Empties and Drains than a skilled opponent with a list resembling the one above. From my own anecdotal experience, which includes recent tournaments and dozens of hours of testing, a big or small Empty simply is not the determinant of a Drain mirror. The match is won or lost in the card advantage. In fact, I will reverse my statement above; I am currently testing a list that includes Night's Whisper in the board.
What? You state that a big or small EtW is not determinant of a Drain mirror. But, then you go on to say the match is won or lost on card advantage... I hope I'm not the only one who finds that a bit contradictory. Empty the Warrens is so good because it creates card advantage. Six 1/1's require, in most cases, multiple cards to deal with. While a Colossus requires ONE. Do you not see how that creates card advantage? -DShell |
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: MDG in 2K7
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on: February 09, 2007, 12:21:05 am
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On a related note I am a strong proponent of Burning Wish in the maindeck. The biggest reason is that Burning Wish enables you to play Yawgmoth's Will multiple times and that actually matters quite often. Very frequently when I am playing Control I have a situation where on turn 2 or 3 I do not have a land to drop but I do have Yawg Will in hand, with Ancestral and Brainstorm in the yard along with a fetchland. If I can go Yawg, Bainstorm, Fetch, Ancestral then that right there can gain a huge advantage. I would be hesistant to do this if I did not know that I have Burning Wish to replay Yawgmoth's Will later. I think Burning Wish is bad; it slows the deck down way too much. I don't honestly recall a time when I wanted to Yawgmoth's Will more than once in a game. If you have Will in your hand early and have no plays, then I wonder what kind of hand was kept. In this case Burning Wish would present two options to you. First you could Burning Wish for Duress and Duress the Trickbind out of his hand. This assumes you have the mana. Second, you could play a large enough Will to win and then when Warrens is Trickbinded you can wait till next turn and replay Yawg Will again and this time he presumably won't have another Trickbind. The problem with this idea is, Burning Wish makes all your sideboard cards cost 1R more. With a deck that's already so mana hungry, this seems bad. Besides, I'd rather save my red for when I want to combo off in case I need Recoup. If Trickbind scares you this much, I wonder why you wouldn't be playing a more aggressive version with Duress and Dark Rituals main. -DShell |
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: MDG in 2K7
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on: February 08, 2007, 10:04:32 am
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Has anyone tried 2 Duress in the Misdirection slot? Could you explain why or why not? I ran into a problem today for the first time. I baited all their counterspells, countered their relevant spells, attempted to go off and in response to Yawg Will, they C. Wished (the last card in hand) for Trickbind. I had no mainboard solutions to this. Was this just lucky on their part or bad play on my part. With mainboard Duress, I would have had no problem winning at all.
In this build, I think Duress over Mis-D is very bad. It slows you down a lot. Since this deck can play control when it needs to, having the Mis-D's helps in that regard. It also helps when a combo player is going off(more blue for FoW), helps to protect your spells, and is great against Ancestral. Duress is best left to the sideboard. Or, in a more aggressive version of the deck, such as Ritual Gifts where Rituals allow for much easier casting. -DShell |
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: Meandeck Gifts versus Grim Long play situation
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on: February 08, 2007, 09:18:36 am
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Anyway I am on the draw and my oppening hand is:
Merchant Scroll
Polluted Delta
Mana Drain
Mana Crypt
Black Lotus
Tolarian Academy
Flooded Strand
This hand is very keepable.
Wow. I wish my opening hands looked like this all the time. Here is how it went down.
I played Tolarian Academy, Mana Crypt and Black Lotus.
I then tapped Academy for uu and Mana Crypt for 2.
I Merchant Scrolled for Ancestral Recall and played it with 1 floating.
I draw Island, Tinker and Mox Ruby.
I play Ruby and crack it for red. R1 floating.
I crack Black Lotus for blue. RUUU1 floating.
I brainstorm into Yawgmoth's Will, Lotus Petal and Mana Drain.
I throw back a Mana Drain and a land.
My hand is now:
Flooded Strand
Island
Tinker
Yawgmoth's Will
Lotus Petal
Mana Drain
I have RUU1 floating in my mana pool.
I still cannot see a way to win so I will have to Will.
I Tinker out Mana Crypt for Mana Vault. U floating.
I tap Mana Vault for 3. U3 floating.
I play Petal and tap for B. BU3 floating.
I play Yawgmoth's Will. U1 floating.
I play back Black Lotus, Lotus Petal and Mana Crypt.
I am 1 mana shy of being able to Tinker and Timewalk. I would have to cast:
Merchant Scroll, Mystical Tutor, Ancestral Recall, Tinker and Timewalk
That costs 9 mana. I only have 8 mana available. I also cannot Burning Wish for Tendrils.
Even if I had a Tendrils in the main I still do not have a win that I see. I figure I better Ancestral again and hope to see something good.
At this point even a Chain of Vapor or Rebuild would be good.
I Ancestral Recall with 1 floating and see Sol Ring, Mystical Tutor and Island.
My luck continues. I play Sol Ring.
I tap Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, Black Lotus and Lotus Petal for UUUU4.
I Mystical Tutor for Time Walk. UUU4 floating.
I brainstorm into TimeWalk Merchant Scroll and Gifts Ungiven. I put back two lands. UU4 floating.
I play Time Walk. U3 floating.
I Tinker out Mana Vault for Colosus. 1 Floating.
I burn for 1 and swing for the win the next turn. Lucksackery FTW! Seriously, nice plays.  I don't think I would have played this any different. -DShell |
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: [Deck] Copyright Theft
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on: February 06, 2007, 03:48:35 pm
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Plagiarize is not as powerful as Gifts. It is nowhere near as powerful as Yawgmoth's Will. It is far more powerful than Concentrate. I completely agree. Which, is why I'm unsure we're still discussing this. Although Gifts Ungiven is better than Plagiarize because of its versatitily to get what you want there are situations where I would rather have Plagiarize in my hand such as when Thirst for Knowledge or Brainstorm is on the stack. Conditional cards are bad... mmm'kay Although Gifts Ungiven seals the deal once you are already ahead on card advantage or mana development it hardly wins a game on its own. It you go turn 1 Island, Mana Vault you cannot as a rule just win on turn 2 by playing Gifts Ungiven. Well, in this case, Plagiarize isn't gonna do anything anyway. But, at least the Gifts deck has it's engine going by turn 2. Plagiarize can't do the same. In the same situation Plagiarizing in response to Brainstorm or Thirst is more game breaking because it is so powerful in terms of card advantage.
Again, conditional. This goes back to your first statement, which I have bolded. I find this arguement for Plagiarize rather foolish, especially when comparing it to an engine like Gifts Ungiven. I don't honestly see how you can defend a card that is so lackluster. -DShell |
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: [Deck] Copyright Theft
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on: February 06, 2007, 01:26:59 pm
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First of all 4 mana does not win you the game We mean a 4 mana SPELL. And yes, it can. It starts with G- and ends with ifts Ungiven. Plagiarize can not end the game on it's own. Plagiarizing in response to Brainstorm or Thirst for Knowledge is way better than Concentrate. Yes you draw 3 more cards but your opponent loses 3 cards. That is a size for one trade giving you +5 card advantage making Plagiarize in response to Thirst/Brainstorm more powerful than 2 Concentrates even if the mana for second was free. In fact it can be as much as a 6 card swing if your opponent played Thirst and would have drawn into an artifact but had none in his hand. You may have just taken yourself off Drain mana but you also just butchered your opponent's hand while drawing three cards. There is a good chance you are holding Force and even if you are not holding it your opponent is basically in top deck mode. Althought Plagiaize has not shown up in American top 8s it has shown up in some Top 8s in Spain. It is not a terrible card and is particularly strong in the control mirror.
Even versus decks with no Draw you have the option of Plagiarizing on their upkeep which is a 2 for 1 trade. It takes you off Drain mana but if they are in top deck mode (which most decks that pack no draw would be by the time you have 4 mana up) then having no Drain Mana up is irrelevant as they will not draw a spell to play.
Except, Concentrate isn't playable in Vintage. You want a good comparison? Gifts Ungiven IS essentially an Instant Double Demonic Tutor, for 3U. Plagiarize is terrible and should not be played in Vintage. Gifts costs the same and tends to end the game. I don't understand why this is so hard to see. -DShell |
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: [Deck] Copyright Theft
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on: February 06, 2007, 08:05:41 am
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I'm not making a Gifts deck though; if I were I'd have gone for a typical build. I'm merely using Gifts itself as it is such a powerful tutor. The problem is, you have no engine in this deck. Your deck is clogged with useless cards that make a cute combo. Since this was posted in Vintage Improvement, I would have thought you wanted improvements to be made. Hitting things such as Brainstorm and Thirst for Knowledge with it is amazing. I think I'm going to cut Duress for MisD anyway, though.
Rather than waiting for the opponent to cast something, you can Gifts and win. That's amazing, too. -DShell |
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: [Deck] Copyright Theft
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on: February 05, 2007, 03:46:56 pm
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When are you ever going to have 7 mana available to cast Draw 7 + Plagarize. After Mana Drain-ing a spell. You don't need a "cute combo" in order to win after Mana Draining. It's called Giftsing for Will, Recoup, Lotus, X... That's good game right there. Also, I think you'll find Frantic Search is pretty bad here since it can only interact well with Tolarian Academy
That's what I expected originally, but it's actually proved to be one of the best cards in the deck and it would take something very special to replace it. In the absence of Academy, I don't see how Frantic Search can be "one of the best cards in the deck...", honestly, Gifts is insane and actually puts you in the position to win, Search gives you two random cards. Plagiarize + Draw-7 is a primary example of overkill and falls under "The Danger of Cool Plays" methodology. You should've asked yourself a question before posting this.
Why would I need a card that is only good when I resolve it; plus a Draw-7? Why am I not just winning when the Draw-7 itself resolves?
The nice thing I've found with Plagiarize and Draw 7s so far, though, is that they work awesomely on there own anyway; so casting them separately is often very powerful as well. There are a few cards I'd rather have over this, like another Gifts or even YWill that will actually win me the game. I don't see what purpose this serves on it's own. Plagiarize is cute, but on it's own, I fail to see how it's doing anything worthwhile. The Draw-7's seem absolutely terrible. Since this deck doesn't even run Rituals(of any sort), I don't see how a Twister, Windfall, or even Time Spiral is gonna end the game for you. author=Zarathustra link=topic=32024.msg460924#msg460924 date=1170694140]
Why would you play 3 Plagiarize over YWill, Recoup, and a 3rd Gifts?
Yawg's Will is something I want to include in here, it's simply a matter of finding the space. Recoup just does nothing for the deck. A third Gifts isn't necessary given all the tutor power I'm packing. It's statements like these that make me wonder why you're attempting a Gifts build. I don't want to sound rude, but it seems as though you lack a fundamental understanding of the Gifts archetype. Yawgmoth's Will is so integral to the deck, that you find room for it. No matter what. In the current build, there are many cards that you can remove for YWill. I have no idea how you can say Recoup does nothing for the deck. You do realize the function of the following Gifts pile: Recoup, Yawgmoth's Will, Black Lotus, Lion's Eye Diamond? This pile allows you to win now, no matter what cards they give you. This alone shows the power of Recoup. I would say Recoup is as integral to this deck as YWill is. If you're making a Gifts deck, you want Gifts. Since the idea of Gifts is to basically cast a lopsided DOUBLE Demonic Tutor on their END STEP. This allows you to win the next turn. Even a combination of Mox, Mana Vault, Mana Crypt, Tolarian Academy, before a Yawgmoth's Will turn is huge and will end the game. Wouldn't it be better to replace a Draw-7 with a less symmetrical spell, such as Fact or Fiction, Skeletal Scrying, or even a 4th Gifts?
Fact or Fiction is definitely something I'd like to try, but it's so mana hungry and as the deck already wants quite a lot I don't want to make it too much harder to drop spells. Maybe you could give us some idea of what you play against. Because, I have no idea how this deck is any good. In it's current form, it seems very lacking. Maybe even some idea of what you have played against. -DShell |
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: [Deck] Copyright Theft
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on: February 05, 2007, 12:10:14 pm
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The first thing that comes to mind is why is this a gifts build? I can't read nine cards down a decklist without running into gifts ungiven nowadays. The card serves no purpose in this deck, unless you want to get FOW, duress, merchant scroll and brainstorm or some other controllish type pile, and then you're kind of wasting four mana
Well, with a card so format defining as Gifts is, it gets played. Besides, a lopsided 3U Demonic Tutor is really, really good. However, I do understand what you mean. This deck it has to go one of two ways. Keep the Draw-7's and play something else, although, I have no idea what you would play. GrimLong or PitchLong comes to mind. Or change the list and play Gifts. Currently, this is not and should not be a Gifts deck, unless changes are made. -DShell |
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: [Deck] Copyright Theft
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on: February 05, 2007, 11:49:00 am
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I'm gonna be blunt... I'm sorry but, this deck is a long ways off from being playable.
Honestly, you have very few good Gifts piles with this deck. How can you conceivably cut two of the biggest Gift pile cards: Yawgmoth's Will and Recoup. Without these, I see very few ways of casting Gifts and actually winning on the spot.
What you have here is a list full of dead cards, that can possibly form to make a "cute combo", that will not win most of the time.
Also, I have no idea how half the choices are, what you would call "self-explanatory".
Why would you play 3 Plagiarize over YWill, Recoup, and a 3rd Gifts?
Why would you play Draw-7's over an extra land or two? This deck has 13 lands and I can assure you, that is not enough. In my testing, 14 is necessary, even 15 is good.
Wouldn't it be better to replace a Draw-7 with a less symmetrical spell, such as Fact or Fiction, Skeletal Scrying, or even a 4th Gifts?
Without DSC, is Tinker really that good, with only one target? Would those two slots serve better as another win condition and another tutor?: Empty the Warrens and a 4th Merchant Scroll.
These are the types of questions I have. I would like to know what your thoughts are on these questions.
-DShell
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25
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Jotun Grunt, how is it used?
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on: February 01, 2007, 12:44:41 am
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Yes. As a combo player I can tell you the Grunt is one of my bigest fears. Not even Massacre will kill him. It hoses Yawg's Will wich is a key combo piece as well as posing a major threat.
I don't know which combo deck really worries about Grunt. Sure, he CAN pose a problem, but combo is usually too fast to care. Gifts can dump it's winning combo into the grave at the end of your opponent's turn, so those cards are safe and you can win. Pitch Long and other Long variants are too fast and Grunt should rarely be a threat. I'd be more worried about Meddling Mage than Grunt. -DShell |
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26
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: Ritual Gifts
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on: January 31, 2007, 03:19:04 pm
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Pithing Needle doesn't seem too hot as after board if they are playing chalice they will definately cast it on 1. As previously posted chalice at 1 really screws this deck up, this deck needs hurkyls recall. Unlike pithing needle it is blue, doesn't cost 1, good proactive/reactive, and can be tutored for easily. Same goes for rebuild. Some play testing I've done that has treated me well is no CoV, 3 D. Rituals, 1 C. Ritual, 1 Hurkyl's Recall. Other than Chalice at 1, it would seem like a good idea. I kinda want to put in TfK's if I am playing 4 needles also  Chalice for 0 is even worse for the combo player and this is what a good opposing player should do. Besides, if you look at the sideboard, there is 1 Chain, 1 Hurkyl's, and 1 Rebuild. Giving you tons of options to an opposing Chalice. The deck needs Chain of Vapor AND Hurkyl's Recall, with out Chain of Vapor, the deck can't remove disruption like Meddling Mage and True Believer or In the Eye of Chaos and Choke, as well as threats like Darksteel Colossus or Worldgorger Dragon. I also think the SB should consider additional Hurkyl's Recall, reminiscent of the Grimlong SBs, for Stax, where Duress is terrible.
You can get away with only one kill condition, but only one bounce spell will bite you in the ass.
In all honesty, Fish isn't as big of a threat to Gifts as it once was. For starters, this deck is a lot faster and more proactive. So, it's much easier to pull off the win before a threat worth worrying too much about comes down. Meddling Mage isn't nearly as effective against this deck as it can be against most traditional MDG builds. This deck has Necro and Bargain as outs to Meddling Mage naming Gifts or even YWill. I think you are right about sideboarding. That is, if Stax becomes big again. Stax isn't that big anymore and if it was, I'm sure a maindeck Rebuild or Hurkyl's would be the correct choice(because you essentially have 5 of them, with Merchant Scrolls). Honestly, I don't see any of those situations arising all that much, so I don't think the maindeck should run too many dead answers. The sideboard has Empty the Warrens for Fish and 3 different bounce spells for Stax, if it shows up. -DShell |
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: [Planar Chaos] Extirpate
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on: January 30, 2007, 03:52:48 pm
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Smmenen once said that his playstyle with MDG often causes him to pitch Mana Drain to FoW/MisD. Many people, including Randy Buehler, have been quoted as saying that Mana Drain is the weakest card in Gifts, specifically because it doesn't let them use their mana.
I've heard this before. I believe it too. But a good MDG player can't think this way all of the time. Mana Drain is still a threat and as so, must still be utilized when it can be. The flaw in your analysis, robert, is that you think Dragon will sit back because he fears your Extirpate. Dragon has been facing graveyard hate for years, and Dragon will do what it always does - abuse its draw engine, find an answer, and combo out 2 turns later. At least with Tormod's Crypt, you can maximize your mana in that two-turn window and seriously damage your Dragon opponent.
Extirpate or not. If you see B open and you dump your key combo piece into the graveyard without clearing the way... you better have a back up plan. The psychology of Extirpate will make B open as powerful as UU was for the longest time. Even as powerful as Force Spike was in some formats. Dragon has to adapt and it has to be aware of the fact: dumping Dragon early isn't such a good idea. Comparing Extirpate to Crypt doesn't even pan out. You could still dump Dragons, be Crypted and have some left over. Even a timely Crypt activation could be overcome by Necromancy. Stifle, Swords, and even Blue Elemental Blast could be battled by Dance and Necromancy. Extirpate on Dragon itself renders the combo dead. I have no idea how you expect to combo out after you have ALL of your Dragons removed. Extirpate can even be used to hurt the engine of the deck, which may be worse in the end. -DShell |
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: B/W Sliver Dance (Deck Idea)
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on: December 28, 2006, 04:27:30 pm
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Ok then... This deck has to go one of two ways. One thing it can do is cut down on it's combo pieces. As is, you have dead pieces, until you have all 4.
I have no idea what to do with this pile of cards so, I suggest, Meandeck Ichorid. It's aggro, it's sort of combo. Check it out.
-DShell
You've already made this point in various different ways. It would be best for everyone concerned if you left this thread alone from now on.
-Godder
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: B/W Sliver Dance (Deck Idea)
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on: December 28, 2006, 11:12:24 am
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1) I know that the aggro-plan is piss poor, but the option is, and I stress this, still there.
2) No offense, but If I wanted Tendrils, then I'd pick up Long. But I don't. Now please, if you have any suggestions, then I would greatly appreciate this; otherwise, please leave this alone.
I like good strategies, not 'piss poor' ones. Why would you even consider something that's not good? Dude, you want suggestions? I'm sorry, but this deck is just not competitive. This is a FOUR card combo. That's just bad. You can't really remodel this deck and make it competitive. You honestly need to change decks to something that actually is good. -DShell |
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