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Author Topic: What are the most powerful/viable cards that you think are underplayed?  (Read 51842 times)
Tin_Mox5831
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« Reply #30 on: July 16, 2008, 05:55:13 pm »

It depends on the parameters that are used to warrant inclusion in this thread. In terms of a truly powerful Vintage-specific mechanic, there's absolutely no doubt that Demonic Consultation is the most obscenely powerful card that fails to see play. If we draw back a bit and take a more abstract look, however, I arrive at a much different answer: Rite Of Flame.

Dark Ritual in storm combo equals [+1 Storm, +2 Mana] whereas Rite Of Flame equals [+1 Storm, +1+X Mana] where X equals the number of Rite Of Flames in all graveyards. So at it's worst, it's a pre-threshold Cabal Ritual with the potential for exponential improvement far beyond that of Cabal Ritual, not to mention the intrinsic benefit you receive if your opponent is running Rites as well. Other important factors that contribute to Rite Of Flame's largely untapped potential include the rise and dominant performance of Empty The Warrens as well as the introduction of Simian Spirit Guide to fuel UBR combo decks.

Just my opinion.

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« Reply #31 on: July 16, 2008, 06:14:01 pm »

The thing is, most storm decks only play two cards that require red mana: Wheel of Fortune and Empty the Warrens (Maybe Burning Wish).

Cabal Rituals, while providing less mana in multiples, give you the much more needed black mana to cast additional rituals, tutors, Yawgmoth's Will or Tendrils.
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« Reply #32 on: July 16, 2008, 07:26:12 pm »

Yawgmoth's Agenda + Arcane Laboratory+ Mana Maze+Suspend cards: Both Arcane lab and mana maze are storm killers and can set up a nice lock. This works well with suspend cards too because they are not technically played so you could get a hard lock and play Ancestral Visions and another spell. This deck would also use lots of instants so that you can play instants on your opponent's turn to stop them playing spells because of mana maze.
Wee Dragonaughts: Alternate kill for storm decks? These can get pretty huge pretty fast.
Cremate: Removes a bomb from your opponent's graveyard and cantrips. I had this in my replicate build. Not great, especially with leylines all over the place, but playable in the right deck.
Unmask: Sees play, just not enough IMO.
Goblin Lore: Was discussed and dismissed after starter/portal became legal but is a good draw spell for red and good for any graveyard based strategy.
The Red and Blue leylines: Not nearly as good as LotV but could be abused in the right deck. Maybe that's just wishful thinking.
Zur's Weirding: Another good enchantment lock piece, I'm working on a deck for this right now.
Ignorant Bliss: I am running this in a Balance deck w/draw 7s that I think has lots of potential. I need help though, it's in the Vintage Improvement forum.
I misread Yawgmoth's Agenda, it's just a terrible card
« Last Edit: July 23, 2008, 05:38:14 pm by Lurker101 » Logged
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« Reply #33 on: July 17, 2008, 08:06:22 am »

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« Reply #34 on: July 17, 2008, 03:06:00 pm »

Lands
 
   crystal vein
   cephalid  coliseum
 
Spells

   ideas unbound
   cremate

Creatures
   
   street wraith
   wild canter


A few commons that have always struck a cord with me.
Green, in general has also seem to be an unplayed favorite.
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Bill Copes
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« Reply #35 on: July 17, 2008, 03:45:01 pm »

@Lurker101:  Ignorant Bliss could be used with memory jar -- if you stack the effect properly, you could keep both removed hands.  I don't see any real benefit to this, though.

Underplayed:

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Arcbound Ravager
Culling the weak
Survival of the Fittest
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« Reply #36 on: July 18, 2008, 11:55:27 pm »

Nobody's mentioned Counterbalance yet?
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« Reply #37 on: July 19, 2008, 11:52:18 pm »

underplayed: old Ghastbark
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« Reply #38 on: July 20, 2008, 06:37:50 pm »

Zur's Wierding
Solitary Confinement
Shadow of Doubt
Erayo?
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« Reply #39 on: July 21, 2008, 09:43:17 am »

Cursecatcher
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Harlequin
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« Reply #40 on: July 21, 2008, 12:21:44 pm »

I took second (losing to Rich in Finals - playing my weakest match - in a close 2-1) in a deck that ran the following cards:

Umbral Mantle
Thrumming Stone
Rings of the Brighthearth
Basault Monolith
Timevault
Avarice Totem
and Culling Scales in the board.

So yeah... all of those.

Keep an eye on out for the tourney report.
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« Reply #41 on: July 21, 2008, 03:10:28 pm »

As far as unexpected card-usage goes, Harlequin's deck wins the prize. I never expected that I'd be beaten to death by an infinite/infinite Thorn of Amethyst, after that very same card had also halted my mana production for the game.
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« Reply #42 on: July 21, 2008, 04:09:48 pm »

Karn + Monolith + Mantle is nice tech Smile
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« Reply #43 on: July 22, 2008, 09:20:01 am »

"You WIN the Game" cards are always tantilizing.  But, usually, too prohibitive to be played.  This card probably isn't tier 1 worthy.  But, I'd like to see someone try to make a competitive T1 or Legacy deck with it.

I think one obvious root is Rector/Therapy.  There are tons of decent cards that allow you to empty your hand.  Also, the land base could consist of sac lands, City of Traitor type lands or Gemstone Mines.  The Hellbent mechanic has some synergy with the deck, too.  You wouldn't want to use any Moxes.  But, Lotus, Petal, and LED work fine.  The problem in Vintage though is if you are going to bring out an enchantment that says "You Win", then it might as well be YBargain.  But, this could be fun!

Name: Barren Glory 
Cost: 4WW 
Card Type: Enchantment 
Rules Text (Oracle):  At the beginning of your upkeep, if you control no permanents other than Barren Glory and have no cards in hand, you win the game. 
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« Reply #44 on: July 22, 2008, 02:22:33 pm »

"You WIN the Game" cards are always tantilizing.  But, usually, too prohibitive to be played.  This card probably isn't tier 1 worthy.  But, I'd like to see someone try to make a competitive T1 or Legacy deck with it.

I think one obvious root is Rector/Therapy.  There are tons of decent cards that allow you to empty your hand.  Also, the land base could consist of sac lands, City of Traitor type lands or Gemstone Mines.  The Hellbent mechanic has some synergy with the deck, too.  You wouldn't want to use any Moxes.  But, Lotus, Petal, and LED work fine.  The problem in Vintage though is if you are going to bring out an enchantment that says "You Win", then it might as well be YBargain.  But, this could be fun!

Name: Barren Glory 
Cost: 4WW 
Card Type: Enchantment 
Rules Text (Oracle):  At the beginning of your upkeep, if you control no permanents other than Barren Glory and have no cards in hand, you win the game. 

Combos with Kaervek's Spite. Also i'm really happy to hear about that Thrumming Stone deck. I really love that card.
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« Reply #45 on: July 25, 2008, 04:03:18 pm »

Except that as 6 mana enchantments go, Yawgmoth's Bargain wins the game for you immediately without needing to get anything else in hand and isn't white or green.
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« Reply #46 on: July 28, 2008, 12:20:36 am »

Chains of Mephistopheles. I played it once in a keeper deck way back when Hulk was king (future sight/impulse draw engine) and just walked straight into a mox win in Hadley.  Although it's really difficult to make Chains work without hurting your own deck, if you can then its ability at 1B to cripple most of the best cards in vintage (from Ancestral on down) is too good to be ignored as much as it is.  Especially with Dark Confidant and Sensei's top running about, I think it's likely that Chains of Mephistopheles is underplayed. 
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« Reply #47 on: July 28, 2008, 12:24:20 am »

Chains of Mephistopheles. I played it once in a keeper deck way back when Hulk was king (future sight/impulse draw engine) and just walked straight into a mox win in Hadley.  Although it's really difficult to make Chains work without hurting your own deck, if you can then its ability at 1B to cripple most of the best cards in vintage (from Ancestral on down) is too good to be ignored as much as it is.  Especially with Dark Confidant and Sensei's top running about, I think it's likely that Chains of Mephistopheles is underplayed. 

I've tried my damndest to make this card work. Without a doubt, it is incredibly powerful. It's just very difficult to build an archetype around.
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« Reply #48 on: July 28, 2008, 12:29:49 am »

Absolutely Shockwave, it is tough.  I've done the same.  But I posted here for that reason:  any smart vintage player would not be surprised to see someone break this card, but they would be jealous.  Have you tried since confidant?
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« Reply #49 on: July 28, 2008, 09:31:41 am »

http://www.morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=845

at the bottom of the page.  He didn't exactly break the card but I am fairly certain it helped tremendously when it resolved.  Keeping blue mages honest in vintage is quite a task but this card does as good a job as sphere of resistance. 
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« Reply #50 on: July 28, 2008, 04:49:28 pm »

Zebra Unicorn, obv
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« Reply #51 on: July 28, 2008, 09:49:12 pm »

chains also works with the scroll rack/land tax engine if you can find the deck space for that somehow.
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« Reply #52 on: August 04, 2008, 03:23:17 pm »

Leyline of Lifeforce + nether void + aggro creatures + Thorn of amethyst.
There's a deck in there somewhere. This also makes Nether Void null against your creatures (they can't be countered) and Thorn would also be pretty 1 sided as you'll be playing  mostly creatures. Throw a few rituals and the typical broken 1 ofs and some hand disruption. Also: Twincast is underused
« Last Edit: August 04, 2008, 07:15:56 pm by Lurker101 » Logged
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« Reply #53 on: August 04, 2008, 07:28:51 pm »

lat-nam's legacy (most people have never even heard of this card but i love it it shuffles back one card in your hand into your deck then draw two cards next upkeep)
I agree, it could be just a little too slow though. I forgot about that. Also I changed my mind on Final Fortune in the right deck this could win you the game easily. Probably best in a burn or Sligh type deck which unfortunately aren't competitive. I also support the use of Savor the Moment.  {1} {U} {U} for an extra turn is pretty good and this would well in a deck like Solidarity, which can untap your own permanents and set up for the kill. Maybe both of these are more legacy geared?

Edit: also Shared Fate(I love the concept of this card and it has been used before), Mindmoil (I believe that there's a deck for this somewhere, and Warpworld (if it didn't cost as much).
« Last Edit: August 04, 2008, 07:34:12 pm by Lurker101 » Logged
forests failed you
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« Reply #54 on: August 04, 2008, 10:48:51 pm »

STRATEGIC PLANNING?
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« Reply #55 on: August 05, 2008, 09:22:59 am »

I'm a fan of Savor the Moment as well.

Serra Sphinx is pretty good too.
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« Reply #56 on: August 05, 2008, 09:32:25 am »

Mystic Remora is quite nice. I'm testing running 4 in my Naughts build as a little draw engine. 1 can easily turn into an Ancestral Recall.
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« Reply #57 on: August 05, 2008, 01:22:59 pm »

I'm a fan of Savor the Moment as well.

As I've said before, it is a cute card but one utterly without a deck. It has already been determined to be bad in Oath and nothing else shows any promise with it.

Quote
Serra Sphinx is pretty good too.

Other than TPS limited, I hope that is a joke.
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« Reply #58 on: August 05, 2008, 01:39:46 pm »

Jerry Yang won the Sunday Vintage tournament with his Panoptic Mirror, Serra Sphinx, and Savor the Moment deck on Sunday.  He even beat David Williams (yes THE David Williams) playing TKs Pitch Long list in that event.
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« Reply #59 on: August 05, 2008, 01:43:31 pm »

Show and Tell obv !!
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