Noble Fish: GUW variants here!

[Yare]

I'm also curious to the 4 pithing needles against shops. Do shop decks always revolve around either welder or metalworker in your meta? Pithing needle wouldn't be particularly strong against white stax, for instance (stopping factorys and fetchlands, basically).

Pithing Needle doesn't affect Metalworker because its ability is a mana ability.

[Stormanimagus]

I'm curious to why the last few lists on this thread only include three selkies. Don't you want it reasonably early every game? Is it marginal in some match-ups? (do you side them out against non-blue aggro or stax?)

I've begun to see that they are mostly bad in multiples as you'll usually want to go at your opponent with Exalted with a Selkie and when the second one hits it won't make a huge difference as you'll be gaining 1 extra card a turn for the cost of 3 Mana. After the first one you want to be swinging with bigger fatties or with a single exalted Selkie to find more controllish cards like FoW, Null Rod and Counters.

That's what I've found to be true for now. I could be convinced to go back to 4.

Ok.

As the deck is gaining fame, people should start considering selkie as yet another reason for playing more darkblasts and fire and ice. If this is happening in your meta (more removal in people's maindecks and sideboards), would that be a reason for playing more or less selkies?

I'm also curious to the 4 pithing needles against shops. Do shop decks always revolve around either welder or metalworker in your meta? Pithing needle wouldn't be particularly strong against white stax, for instance (stopping factorys and fetchlands, basically).

Needle is also very effective in stopping Bazaar and Wasteland so between those 3 cards you are basically shutting down their major Engines. Usually I'd name Welder First and then Bazaar. If you have both of those shut off usually a Stax pilot can't easily win from their with all your countermagic/pridemages for their bombs/smokeys.

[RecklessEmbermage]

I'm curious to why the last few lists on this thread only include three selkies. Don't you want it reasonably early every game? Is it marginal in some match-ups? (do you side them out against non-blue aggro or stax?)

I've begun to see that they are mostly bad in multiples as you'll usually want to go at your opponent with Exalted with a Selkie and when the second one hits it won't make a huge difference as you'll be gaining 1 extra card a turn for the cost of 3 Mana. After the first one you want to be swinging with bigger fatties or with a single exalted Selkie to find more controllish cards like FoW, Null Rod and Counters.

That's what I've found to be true for now. I could be convinced to go back to 4.

Ok.

As the deck is gaining fame, people should start considering selkie as yet another reason for playing more darkblasts and fire and ice. If this is happening in your meta (more removal in people's maindecks and sideboards), would that be a reason for playing more or less selkies?

I'm also curious to the 4 pithing needles against shops. Do shop decks always revolve around either welder or metalworker in your meta? Pithing needle wouldn't be particularly strong against white stax, for instance (stopping factorys and fetchlands, basically).

Needle is also very effective in stopping Bazaar and Wasteland so between those 3 cards you are basically shutting down their major Engines. Usually I'd name Welder First and then Bazaar. If you have both of those shut off usually a Stax pilot can't easily win from their with all your countermagic/pridemages for their bombs/smokeys.

Yes. Of course. I meant: Don't you ever play against workshop decks that don't include welder (and the bazaars to go wiith them) ?

@Yare: Thanks. Metalworker wasn't well thought of.

[Sean Ryan]

Noble won a recent event with 0 Selkies replacing them with MMage.

On the Knight, with only 5 fetch lands, 4 wastelands, you are not going to consistenly be larger than 5/5.  Which leads me to beleive that Goyf is still better for one mana cheaper.  The benifit of being able to name Goyf on your mages is marginal compared to the effeciecy Goyf brings.

I will say that after playing BUG Fish I have come around to the Noble variant.  It has so many tools at it's disposal.  The hardest problem is choosing what Not to play becasue there ar eso many good choices.

What are peoples thoughts on Cliqu?  I love the card myself.

[Stormanimagus]

Noble won a recent event with 0 Selkies replacing them with MMage.

On the Knight, with only 5 fetch lands, 4 wastelands, you are not going to consistenly be larger than 5/5.  Which leads me to beleive that Goyf is still better for one mana cheaper.  The benifit of being able to name Goyf on your mages is marginal compared to the effeciecy Goyf brings.

I will say that after playing BUG Fish I have come around to the Noble variant.  It has so many tools at it's disposal.  The hardest problem is choosing what Not to play becasue there ar eso many good choices.

What are peoples thoughts on Cliqu?  I love the card myself.

Not sure that Knight will only be a 5/5 as you can often grow it with itself if need be. There will be times when the 5/5 butt is plenty big to get the job done, but if you are facing against a Goyf then maybe you have to burn a turn with his ability. Remember, if he's like a 4/4 you can use his ability once to find a fetch and now he's a 6/6. It's not that hard to grow him. Goyf still might be the right call, but I'm not sure it's that obviously good in this deck as we only run 1 Sorcery (Time Walk) and that means Goyf will often be a 2/3 for 2 turns after hitting the board unless my opponent helps me out with Duress or some such card (which they probably won't if they can play instants instead and save life). 2/3's for 1G seem bad to me. I don't know about you.

Clique is all right, but I'm not sure it's really needed in the deck. I'd love it if it filled the role of Goyf and could be my finisher but the 1 toughness precludes that so I choose not to run it. We already have too many 1 toughness creatures in this deck so adding another is not my first choice.

As to Selkie. Not sure how I feel about cutting it altogether, but 3 seems fine now. I think the deck still needs a way to draw into its Gas (FoW, Pierce, Creatures) to hold off fast and powerful decks like TPS/Tezzeret.

[Guli]

Noble won a recent event with 0 Selkies replacing them with MMage.

On the Knight, with only 5 fetch lands, 4 wastelands, you are not going to consistenly be larger than 5/5.  Which leads me to beleive that Goyf is still better for one mana cheaper.  The benifit of being able to name Goyf on your mages is marginal compared to the effeciecy Goyf brings.

I will say that after playing BUG Fish I have come around to the Noble variant.  It has so many tools at it's disposal.  The hardest problem is choosing what Not to play becasue there ar eso many good choices.

What are peoples thoughts on Cliqu?  I love the card myself.

I believe you art referring to blue bell sept/09

Creature base was like this:

3 Vendilion Clique
4 Meddling Mage
4 Qasali Pridemage
2 Trygon Predator
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Tarmogoyf

I think the Vendilion Clique is more like the replacement for selkie here... choosing for additional pressure instead of a draw engine. 3 power flying, i know this can be great with exalted. Lots of blue as well. I like it. BUT it is not selkie strike

[urweak]

Lands:
3x Misty Rainforest
3x Wasteland
3x Tropical Island
2x Tundra
2x Island
2x Flooded Strand
1x Savannah
1x Strip Mine

Creatures:
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Ethersworn Canonist
3x Qasali Pridemage
2x Trygon Predator
1x Inkwell Leviathan

Artifacts:
3x Null Rod
1x Sol Ring
1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mox Pearl

Spells:
4x Force of Will
2x Misdirection
2x Mana Leak
2x Spell Snare
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Tinker
1x Brainstorm
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Time Walk

Enchantments:
3x Mystic Remora

This is my updated version, I like how it plays. Two things I would like to do, #1 cut one card to make it a 60 card deck (its at 61 right now). #2 possibly cut something to make room for the 4th Q. Pridemage.

[BruiZar]

Why not try and remove null rod, add chalice of the void, and add cephalid constable if you are gonna cut selkie? This way you can just bounce moxen that will never return, in essence, making your Qasali Pridemage not have to sack itself while still removing a mox due to its exalted. This means you can save him for vault/key or to clear the way against WS Aggro. Cephalid Constable helps the mana denial plan more than any other card. The deck plays strip mines and gem-denial. Why not focus on that strategy instead?

[urweak]

Why not try and remove null rod, add chalice of the void, and add cephalid constable if you are gonna cut selkie? This way you can just bounce moxen that will never return, in essence, making your Qasali Pridemage not have to sack itself while still removing a mox due to its exalted. This means you can save him for vault/key or to clear the way against WS Aggro. Cephalid Constable helps the mana denial plan more than any other card. The deck plays strip mines and gem-denial. Why not focus on that strategy instead?

The deck works fine the way it is, i would just like to knock one card from the deck to get to 60 cards. Then possibly add 1x Pridemage to make it a 4 of.

[Stormanimagus]

Hey guys. It's been quite a while since I posted to my own thread so I figured I'd spark some conversation about a card that I'm super excited about that could rejuvenate a slowly dying archetype: Thada Adel, Acquisitor.

For those of you who have been living in a hole over the past week or so here's the spoiled card:

Thada Adel, Acquisitor     1

Legendary Creature - Merfolk Rogue   
Islandwalk
Whenever Thada Adel, Acquisitor deals combat damage to a player, search that player's library for an artifact card and exile it. Then that player shuffles his or her library. Until end of turn, you may play that card.
2/2

I really think this card could be quite effective as a MD answer to Vault/Key (in addition to Null Rod) That also has the added bonus of taking out Tinker Robots before they can hit the field. It is also not irrelevant against Shops because it can grab Moxen, Lotus or Crucible and help to swing that match-up in your favor. Perhaps I overrate the card, but it seems like a good deal for a 2/2 but that can apply some pressure while acting as an extract every turn.

Here's a possible Thada Adel, Acquisitor Noble Fish list I've been messing with a bit:

Noble Fish

Land (17):
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Flooded Strand
3 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
1 Island
1 Forest
3 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine

Artifacts (8):
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
4 Null Rod

Creatures (17):
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Tarmogoyf
3 Meddling Mage
4 Qasali Pridemage
3 Thada Adel, Acquisitor

Instants (17):
4 Force Of Will  
3 Daze
3 Spell Pierce
3 Stifle
3 Nature's Claim
1 Ancestral Recall

Sorceries (1):
1 Time Walk

SB
4 Ravenous Trap
4 Wheel Of Sun And Moon
4 Swords To Plowshares
3 Sower Of Temptation

Anyway, this is just a tentative list, and I'm really unsure as to whether the Nature's Claim slot shouldn't still be Trygon Predator. The SB is also a bit weird at first glance, but it covers the 2 match-ups I'm most worried about with this deck: Dredge & Aggro Beats.

Thoughts? Let the discussion of the little Fishies begin again!

-Storm

[Phele]

I think that Thada and Null Rod have strong dissynergies. If you want to use the full power of Thada you cant play out Null Rod. I think that Thada has its place in full powered Fish builds with other disruption elements than Null Rod.

[Stormanimagus]

I think that Thada and Null Rod have strong dissynergies. If you want to use the full power of Thada you cant play out Null Rod. I think that Thada has its place in full powered Fish builds with other disruption elements than Null Rod.

What would lead you to think this? Because you can't tap a mox/lotus that you steal with Thada? Please. That is not a good reason not to run her. Think of her as extra insurance against Tezz at defeating plan B (Tinker-->Robot) while also answering Time Vault. You really didn't back up your claim at all.

[Phele]

What shall I back up what is obvious? I also dont give examples for not playing Workshops and Mana Drains togehter in one deck. Null Rod shuts down most of the artifacts you are stealing with Thada. So with both of them you are using Thada more less like Rootwater Thief, which is also an answer to Tinker targets and Time Vault. And noone would ever think of running Rootwater Thief. And that IS a good reason to not run Null Rod and Thada together.

[unixtreme]

I think that Thada and Null Rod have strong dissynergies. If you want to use the full power of Thada you cant play out Null Rod. I think that Thada has its place in full powered Fish builds with other disruption elements than Null Rod.

What would lead you to think this? Because you can't tap a mox/lotus that you steal with Thada? Please. That is not a good reason not to run her. Think of her as extra insurance against Tezz at defeating plan B (Tinker-->Robot) while also answering Time Vault. You really didn't back up your claim at all.

I'd never play a lotus stolen with Thada simply because I might be allowing my opponent to retrieve it on hes Yawgmoth's Will, might be irrelevant or might be not, but I prefer keeping the artifacts removed for the entire game.

What shall I back up what is obvious? I also dont give examples for not playing Workshops and Mana Drains togehter in one deck. Null Rod shuts down most of the artifacts you are stealing with Thada. So with both of them you are using Thada more less like Rootwater Thief, which is also an answer to Tinker targets and Time Vault. And noone would ever think of running Rootwater Thief. And that IS a good reason to not run Null Rod and Thada together.

Thada has some good points, 1: cant be needled, 2: 2/2 XD, 3: better evasion.
1/2 flying and spending 1 U per turn seems a bit odd to me. I mean, we tested it a few months ago in a Vintage fun deck and it was fine, if he attacked 2-3 turns the game was 99% yours, but your game was slowed down quite a bit. And even a Darkblast can stop it from doing it's ability (Has to deal combat damage).

Rootwater has some good points too, 1: less costs, 2: less restrictive ability. 3: Not legendary. But clique's are seeing game in some decks and can just block you.

I wouldn't run either of them cause I find the main fish disruption engine against these decks fair enough and these mobs are too slow, after 3 attacking turns fish usually controls the game or gets controlled to a point it cannot respond.

My two cents.

[Stormanimagus]

Hey all!

So I plan to revise the first post soon to include some (and to reprint it in a new post) winning deck lists from the past year for this archetype as well as where I see this deck potentially going in the future. I'd like to propose a teaser list to you all that I've been working with that breaks many of the rules of building Noble Fish, but I hope you find it an interesting possibility. Here's my rough draft:

Noble Fish (RODLESS!)

Land (17):
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Flooded Strand
3 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
1 Island
1 Forest
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine

Artifacts (5):
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl

Creatures (17):
4 Noble Hierarch (G)
3 Tarmogoyf (1G)
4 Qasali Pridemage (GW)
3 Thada Adel, Acquisitor (1UU)
3 Cold-Eyed Selkie

Instants (21):
4 Force Of Will
4 Daze
4 Spell Pierce
4 Stifle
4 Nature’s Claim
1 Ancestral Recall

Sorceries (1):
1 Time Walk

SB
4 Ravenous Trap
4 Wheel Of Sun And Moon
3 Swords To Plowshares
4 Trygon Predator

Null Rod still may be the way to go, but I feel as though Tezzeret is dropping off a bit and is often quite prepared for the annoying Weatherlight Artifact. Thoughts on this list? It seems to have an easier time with Tinker Targets etc. than most decks and it certainly seems to have solid game against Shops with all the efficient Artifact hate at the 1, 2 and 3 (post SB) CC slots.

[jester3397]

With 17 1cc cards, chalice @ 1 early would slow the deck down. Obviously with 4 pridemage you have outs but it will affect your early game. With only 7 colored mana producing lands stax wastelands will be effective on 5 of those 7. Maybe a trygon main prove to be helpful.

[waikiki]

Hey Guys,

This saturday I am going to bring noble fish to a non proxy tournament. Since I do not have any power, what are the replacements you guys would suggest for:

bant color moxen
a recall
time walk
Lotus

I could come up with:

Additional lands
petal
ponder ( I only run bstorm)

Thnx in regard.

[serracollector]

I recently made top 6 in Columbus Ohio, at the MeanDeck tournament,  with a UG "fish" deck, and I don't understand why people want to play white. The way I look at it white has 3, maybe 4 good cards, gaddock teeg, pridemage, meddling mage, and swords.  Now lets look at what white provides over green/blue.....

Sower of Temptation can replace swords easily
Trygon Predator can replace Pridemage
Gaddock Teeg and Meddline are awesome, BUT so is just a bunch of counterspells.
All white does is make the mana base easier to hate on, and gives less cards for Force of Will and MisDirection.

Something along the lines of:

2 mox
2 Lotus/petal
1 Crypt
4 trop
4 breeding
4 misty
3 island
1 forest
1 strip
4 selkie
4 noble
3 Heretic
3 trygon
2 Legendary Merfolk
2 sower
4 FoW
2 Misdirection
4 spell pierce
4 mana leak
1 ancestral
1 time walk

and the kicker!

4 Favor Of Overbeing.

Not only does it give 90% of your creatures +2/+2 flying and vigilance, which is great for blocking confidants, and for getting over critters when your opponents don't have islands.
It stops darkblast and fire/ice, which rancor does not, it pitches to Force and MisD,  which rancor does not, and it can be cast for either green or blue mana.

Favor + Noble + selkie = 4 cards a turn, and a 3/3 blocker at all times.

And don't forget it is just as good on a Trygon or a Heretic.  Even 1 card a turn is good, Heretic with Favor is better than a Confidant.

I won one game at the tournament due to a trygon with a Favor on it.  They had platinum angel, and I was sure i was gonna lose, til I had a 4/5 flying with vigilance that if they didn't block it they were gonna lose their platinum anyways.  Now that's clutch.

So in summary:
White is not necessary
Favor of Overbeing is way better than rancor (if you play maindeck heretics and trygon's too).

Hope this helps enlighten some people.

And don't forget WorldWake gives u the new artifact stealing merfolk, AND the 1 mana disenchant for green.  

Expect to see ug lists start popping up more than the GUW variants.

[Phele]

I already saw your decklist and I found it at least an interesting approach.

But your list is very, very vulnerable to all kinds of creature removal. You opponent can easily cast Darkblast or Fire/Ice in response on you playing a Favor on one of your dudes, which makes you lose two cards. Darkblast and Fire/Ice hit almost all of your creatures before resolving a Favor. And everybody plays Darkblast and Fire/Ice in the moment. Other removals like REB and Swords hit your creatures even after resolving a Favor.

Additionally your deck is lacking spot or lasting disruption for Vault/Key. Where Meddling Mage, Null Rod and Pridemage have to be solved to play Vault/Key, you have no such tool, they have to play around. (Maybe Thada will fill this role). Meddling Mage/Pridemage are extremly flexible and this is what makes white so good in decks like this. And StP is the most effective creature removal you can get. I always love to have it in my board.

I also would question the lack of mana denial. Your counter magic is very focused on the first few turns, what can help. But beside that you have not very much to stop opponents from going broken in the first two turns. I could imagine that any kind of storm combo is a horrible matchup for you.

[Stormanimagus]

4 Favor Of Overbeing.

Not only does it give 90% of your creatures +2/+2 flying and vigilance, which is great for blocking confidants, and for getting over critters when your opponents don't have islands.
It stops darkblast and fire/ice, which rancor does not, it pitches to Force and MisD,  which rancor does not, and it can be cast for either green or blue mana.

Favor + Noble + selkie = 4 cards a turn, and a 3/3 blocker at all times.

And don't forget it is just as good on a Trygon or a Heretic.  Even 1 card a turn is good, Heretic with Favor is better than a Confidant.

I won one game at the tournament due to a trygon with a Favor on it.  They had platinum angel, and I was sure i was gonna lose, til I had a 4/5 flying with vigilance that if they didn't block it they were gonna lose their platinum anyways.  Now that's clutch.

So in summary:
White is not necessary
Favor of Overbeing is way better than rancor (if you play maindeck heretics and trygon's too).

Hope this helps enlighten some people.

And don't forget WorldWake gives u the new artifact stealing merfolk, AND the 1 mana disenchant for green.  

Expect to see ug lists start popping up more than the GUW variants.

I agree that straight U/G has some potential, but I think there are some critical weaknesses in your list. I think Favor Of Overbeing is not a good card because it forces you to run another bad card in Vedalken Heretic. I realize that the Heretic is like Confidant for this deck, but you don't need that many card-drawers when you already have Selkie. Perhaps I'm wrong about that, but, if I were to take a Stab at this thing post-Zendikar my list might look something like this:

U/G Fish

Land (17):
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
3 Island
1 Forest
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine

Artifacts (8):
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
4 Null Rod

Creatures (17):
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Cold-Eyed Selkie
3 Trygon Predator
3 Thada Adel, Acquisitor
3 Sower Of Temptation

Instants (17):
4 Force Of Will
4 Daze
4 Spell Pierce
4 Nature’s Claim
1 Ancestral Recall

Sorceries (1):
1 Time Walk

SB
3 Tarmogoyf
1 Sower Of Temptation
4 Wheel Of Sun And Moon
4 Relic Of Progenitus
3 Arcane Laboratory


Hope this list inspires some critiques. Oddly enough the card I'm least sure about now is Null Rod. Not exactly sure what's better than Rod MD though. I'm open to thoughts, however.

-Storm

[Gandalf_The_White_1]

Creatures (17):
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Cold-Eyed Selkie
3 Trygon Predator
3 Thada Adel, Acquisitor
3 Sower Of Temptation

The mana curve on these creatures is too high, making you overly dependent on Hierarch.  You need cheaper, more efficient threats that come down earlier and are easier to protect, in order to apply sufficient pressure.

Also, without Pridemage or Favor, Selki itself loses appeal, since it's not very good unless you have a Hierarch in play.

[MirariKnight]

I agree with those creatures being way too high curve. Vedalken Heretic > Selkie and/or Pridemage > Trygon should be good if you're trying to lower the curve. I still think that someone should try out a version that tries to abuse Thada more, including Vials instead of Rods (maybe Chalice?) and more moxen. I would try this but I am notoriously bad at decks like this and I don't think my assessment would be accurate.

[Stormanimagus]

I agree with those creatures being way too high curve. Vedalken Heretic > Selkie and/or Pridemage > Trygon should be good if you're trying to lower the curve. I still think that someone should try out a version that tries to abuse Thada more, including Vials instead of Rods (maybe Chalice?) and more moxen. I would try this but I am notoriously bad at decks like this and I don't think my assessment would be accurate.

How would Vial particularly synergize with Thada Adel any better than Noble Hierarch? To me, Vial needs to be used with creatures that are specifically designed to abuse it (Ethersworn Canonist, Gaddock Teeg, etc.). Vial needs to be in a deck where you can abuse its ability to FLASH in creatures. I'm not sure that Thada Adel is really being abused by coming into play on your opponent's EOT.

My 2 cents on that one,

-Storm

(I do, however agree that my curve is too high, but I don't really love Heretic overall as a card).

[Stormanimagus]

Hey Guys!

So I figured I prep what will be quite the post with a request:

I count 23 times that Noble Fish has T8ed this year world-wide (since my initial T8 at the TMD last March 21st) and I want to make sure that there are no deck lists I'm missing. I am going to be posting a full run-down of every list and an analysis of the card choices (ala Menendian) and I want to be as accurate and thorough as possible.

There's one list with some problems that I want to clear up right now from the French Vintage Cup '09 Side Event:

The event had 39 players  and the 8th place list of Julien Huguenin has a problem:

8th Place — Julien Huguenin

// Lands
    2  Tropical Island
    3  Tundra
    1  Island
    3  Flooded Strand
    3  Wasteland
    1  Strip Mine
    3  Misty Rainforest
    1  Forest
    1  Plains

// Creatures
    4  Noble Hierarch
    4  Cold-Eyed Selkie
    2  Trygon Predator
    4  Tarmogoyf
    3 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage

// Spells
    1  Black Lotus
    1  Mox Pearl
    1  Mox Sapphire
    4  Force of Will
    2  Daze
    1  Misdirection
    1  Ancestral Recall
    4  Null Rod
    1  Hurkyl's Recall
    1  Brainstorm
    2  Swords to Plowshares
    3  Spell Pierce
    1  Mystical Tutor
    2  Giant Growth

// Sideboard
SB: 1  Tarmogoyf
SB: 3  Swords to Plowshares
SB: 2  Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 3  Wheel of Sun and Moon
SB: 1  Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2  Serenity
SB: 3  Burrenton Forge-Tender

Apparently you're running 5 Tarmogoyf and 5 STP between MD and SB? Could someone who knows clear this up for me?

I want to have a really good analysis for you all. Fish deserves more press, but if it is to get that press the design of the deck needs to be analyzed and refined with the same care as Tezzeret is.

I feel people often times gloss over the possibility that there is a set shell for a good Fish MD and SB because it seems to be a more variable deck (when it comes to deck design). I hope my analysis will prove this to be a bit of a false assumption, but I need everyone's help if they want the analysis to be complete and accurate. I'll be posting later tonight with my analysis thus far.

-Storm

[serracollector]

Well the deck that I actually took to the meandeck tournament had 3 moxen (pearl just to make ppl think it was 3 colors and as an additional mana source etc), and mana crypt, along with lotus/petal, along with the 4 nobles, which yes I do count on, but haven't been dissapointed with, no one forces a noble, and maindeck creature kill is at an all time low in vintage.  3 mana was/has never been a problem to reach, and realize, other than tinker, and them getting both key/vault out at same time, misdirection is a free "counter spell".  Misdirection a darkblast to a Confidant, or a welder or w/e, or a fire.  Also remember most decklists that play those spells play 1 of each, I play 3/4 of each of my creatures, and 14 maindeck counterspells, 6 being free, and 4 being 1 mana.  I don't really consider the deck "fish" because your right I have very lil board disruption, the deck, I consider, it as more like BBS, with the goal of stopping their first key spells, dropping a critter that then destroys their board (trygon) or something that draws (heretic/selkie)and countering anything that lets them draw cards or messes me up.  I usually only keep 1 creature on the board(I don't count nobles as creatures in this sense, they are more like lands that buff creatures), and just back it up with counters, instead of trying to "overrun" them with critters.  Another thing that is great about the deck is that I can pitch everything except lands, nobles and artifacts to Force and MisD, allowing me to play 6.  MisD is so good in this meta, and if your running white you can't have that extra "free counter" if you will, the card colors needed aren't there.  The only thing better than MisD an Ancestral is to MisD a thoughtseize when their last card is yawg win  

But yea the deck is very linear, and just plays well, and the only "thought" needed is "what do I need to counter?"  As long as you know the key cards in t1, its good to go.

example

turn 1, land noble, or land and jewlery, almost every time
turn 2 selkie, heretic, or trygon
force or spell pierce or mana leak something important, usually something important is dropped turn 2 or 3, t1 is not always a first turn kill we all know this.
turn 3 favor on w/e if you got it, either draw counters to protect it, or your smashing their jewlery/enchantments

that or you sit and stack mana and swing with nobles with counter back up til you get ancestral or a creature. The deck can go aggro or control.

most games I played if I got favor on a selkie or trygon, and had ANY cards in hand already, they just conceded.  Favor was/is amazing.  It can be cast for either of your colors, pitches to counters, and not only gives an evasion but buff's both hp and atk.  The only other card I would use over Favor, and I am not joking at all here, is Unstable Mutation.  Because its blue and 1 mana, and so what if it dies eventually by then you have drawn another 2, or won. Rancor is good, but still leaves them susceptible to darkblast and fire.  Also it's green and thus not pitchable.

You know how steve played with bolt instead of fire in his deck that got first.  Maybe it's not just for the new juggernauts, but because he knew I was playing favor over rancor?

As far as playing maindeck null rod and maindeck wastelands, I play strip because it is amazing, but I need my colored mana, need it, thus 4 breeding pool even.  I untap them for 2 life all the time.  Life don't matter once your drawing 4 cards a turn and on average 1-2 are counterspells, which happens more often than not.  Plus null rod would nuke my 3 moxen, lotus/petal and crypt.  Thats a 1/10 of my deck and almost 1/3 of my mana.
Maybe with that new green disenchant, I might "cosider" a couple null rods maindeck.  Since I can nuke them anytime for 1 mana and gain 4 life (that card is gonna be used by EVERY one).  Kinda sucks for me since it can nuke favor, BUT misdirecting them is gonna be fun.

Also talking about that new 1 mana disenchant, that resolves the pridemage issue.  1 mana instant disenchant, with life gain, which can be clutch at times.  

And of course there is the merfolk legend.  Getting her out turn 2 with force or misd back up would not be uncommon if you played 2 or 3 maindeck, and once again, she's pitchable.  Holding back cards is a good thing anyways, people get scared of the thought of counterspells.  They really do. But yes, pulling either their vault of key is game winning, but at worst she is gonna get you a lotus or moxen or remove random tinker toy.  Unless your playing dredge then you side the 2-3 of her out and throw in "random grave hate" etc.

Yes combo is a problem, but when combo gets a first turn duress, mox mox, ritual ritual ad nauseam who else can win?  If combo goes off it does, if it doesn't it doesn't, what I do 99% of the time doesn't matter, and that's true of many other decks than mine, no deck is perfect otherwise, t1 wouldn't have so much variation, and variations in top 8's everywhere.

Maybe I should sideboard Arcane Laboratory, and play true BBS lock style  

Anyways,

With those two new additions it makes the ug version not just more viable, but IMO, better than the GUW variants.  Who needs a swords when you can just counter the creature, steal it, or misdirect there swords to it?

[MirariKnight]

My reasoning for Vial was because it just seems too good if you're not running Rods. It lets you keep mana up for other stuff, play more guys, and get around counters even if the cards you play don't benefit from having Flash. Heretic, Pridemage, Goyf are all really good to Flash in at 2 mana, and Pridemage would absolutely be a better card if it had flash, since it has an instant speed effect.

[nineisnoone]

My reasoning for Vial was because it just seems too good if you're not running Rods. It lets you keep mana up for other stuff, play more guys, and get around counters even if the cards you play don't benefit from having Flash. Heretic, Pridemage, Goyf are all really good to Flash in at 2 mana, and Pridemage would absolutely be a better card if it had flash, since it has an instant speed effect.

I've always loved Vial, but it's a different card than Noble.  Noble is about cheating out 3 drops.  Vial is about flooding out 1 drops.  (2 drops are relevant safe cards for both archetypes).

[AmbivalentDuck]

Vial also makes things like True Believer a hard counter vs Gifts, Tendrils, and Oath.

[Guli]

funny people suggesting vial ...

[unixtreme]

Well the deck that I actually took to the meandeck tournament had 3 moxen (pearl just to make ppl think it was 3 colors and as an additional mana source etc), and mana crypt, along with lotus/petal, along with the 4 nobles, which yes I do count on, but haven't been dissapointed with, no one forces a noble, and maindeck creature kill is at an all time low in vintage.  3 mana was/has never been a problem to reach, and realize, other than tinker, and them getting both key/vault out at same time, misdirection is a free "counter spell".  Misdirection a darkblast to a Confidant, or a welder or w/e, or a fire.  Also remember most decklists that play those spells play 1 of each, I play 3/4 of each of my creatures, and 14 maindeck counterspells, 6 being free, and 4 being 1 mana.  I don't really consider the deck "fish" because your right I have very lil board disruption, the deck, I consider, it as more like BBS, with the goal of stopping their first key spells, dropping a critter that then destroys their board (trygon) or something that draws (heretic/selkie)and countering anything that lets them draw cards or messes me up.  I usually only keep 1 creature on the board(I don't count nobles as creatures in this sense, they are more like lands that buff creatures), and just back it up with counters, instead of trying to "overrun" them with critters.  Another thing that is great about the deck is that I can pitch everything except lands, nobles and artifacts to Force and MisD, allowing me to play 6.  MisD is so good in this meta, and if your running white you can't have that extra "free counter" if you will, the card colors needed aren't there.  The only thing better than MisD an Ancestral is to MisD a thoughtseize when their last card is yawg win  

But yea the deck is very linear, and just plays well, and the only "thought" needed is "what do I need to counter?"  As long as you know the key cards in t1, its good to go.

example

turn 1, land noble, or land and jewlery, almost every time
turn 2 selkie, heretic, or trygon
force or spell pierce or mana leak something important, usually something important is dropped turn 2 or 3, t1 is not always a first turn kill we all know this.
turn 3 favor on w/e if you got it, either draw counters to protect it, or your smashing their jewlery/enchantments

that or you sit and stack mana and swing with nobles with counter back up til you get ancestral or a creature. The deck can go aggro or control.

most games I played if I got favor on a selkie or trygon, and had ANY cards in hand already, they just conceded.  Favor was/is amazing.  It can be cast for either of your colors, pitches to counters, and not only gives an evasion but buff's both hp and atk.  The only other card I would use over Favor, and I am not joking at all here, is Unstable Mutation.  Because its blue and 1 mana, and so what if it dies eventually by then you have drawn another 2, or won. Rancor is good, but still leaves them susceptible to darkblast and fire.  Also it's green and thus not pitchable.

You know how steve played with bolt instead of fire in his deck that got first.  Maybe it's not just for the new juggernauts, but because he knew I was playing favor over rancor?

As far as playing maindeck null rod and maindeck wastelands, I play strip because it is amazing, but I need my colored mana, need it, thus 4 breeding pool even.  I untap them for 2 life all the time.  Life don't matter once your drawing 4 cards a turn and on average 1-2 are counterspells, which happens more often than not.  Plus null rod would nuke my 3 moxen, lotus/petal and crypt.  Thats a 1/10 of my deck and almost 1/3 of my mana.
Maybe with that new green disenchant, I might "cosider" a couple null rods maindeck.  Since I can nuke them anytime for 1 mana and gain 4 life (that card is gonna be used by EVERY one).  Kinda sucks for me since it can nuke favor, BUT misdirecting them is gonna be fun.

Also talking about that new 1 mana disenchant, that resolves the pridemage issue.  1 mana instant disenchant, with life gain, which can be clutch at times.  

And of course there is the merfolk legend.  Getting her out turn 2 with force or misd back up would not be uncommon if you played 2 or 3 maindeck, and once again, she's pitchable.  Holding back cards is a good thing anyways, people get scared of the thought of counterspells.  They really do. But yes, pulling either their vault of key is game winning, but at worst she is gonna get you a lotus or moxen or remove random tinker toy.  Unless your playing dredge then you side the 2-3 of her out and throw in "random grave hate" etc.

Yes combo is a problem, but when combo gets a first turn duress, mox mox, ritual ritual ad nauseam who else can win?  If combo goes off it does, if it doesn't it doesn't, what I do 99% of the time doesn't matter, and that's true of many other decks than mine, no deck is perfect otherwise, t1 wouldn't have so much variation, and variations in top 8's everywhere.

Maybe I should sideboard Arcane Laboratory, and play true BBS lock style  

Anyways,

With those two new additions it makes the ug version not just more viable, but IMO, better than the GUW variants.  Who needs a swords when you can just counter the creature, steal it, or misdirect there swords to it?

[/size]

I would run Ninja of the Deep hours instead of Vedalken Heretic, and some useful 1cc creatures (don't have to mention Epityr).

The meta is so crowded with fishy decks and combo isn't at it's best moment, I would totally not run Thada (tested it and its good but most of the times it's not a game-winning card) or in case you really want to run it I would run 1, Sower is a tempting card (lol) but it's cc makes it less useful in fish mirrors althought I would include it on a list like yours (U/G).